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Square responds to PS2 HDD removal

DrGAKMAN

Banned
I think this is for next generation...there's no way they're try to pull a switchero on Sony when they're the current market leader. They're throwing their tantrum and talking about "switching platforms" so that their current sugar daddy (Sony) will keep them happy. They're letting Sony know that there are two hungry competitor's out there willing to do their bidding to get their games.

MS has thrown millions into building a nice online games network, but it's not known if there would be a HD in "Xenon"...although I'm sure MS would cater it to Square Enix to get in on the Japanese market...but the risk is to high with an American platform in the homeland. Which leaves Nintendo, who's suppossed "leaked" specs have a built-in HD planned which would make it viable for such a venture, but that's like hoping on niche within a rumor about something that could have nothing or everything to do with this.
 

Arcticfox

Member
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
Maybe it would help to have the quote in context - it wasn't a reaction to the redesigned PS2.

It ties in with Tanaka's remarks in other recent interviews:

So they're planning to either port FFXI to next-generation platforms or start on a brand new MMORPG instead, but apparently they still haven't decided which.
Thanks You. It is nice to know the full story.

I didn't think Gamespot was so desperate for attention that they would intentionally twist a quote like that.
 

neptunes

Member
Spike said:
GameCube has the same online plan that Sony does. They offer the broadband/modem adapters for any developer that wishes to use it. Only difference being that Nintendo themselves haven't created an online game.

Actually, sony hosted a couple severs for a bit. (couple months after adapter launch)
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
Arcticfox said:
Thanks You. It is nice to know the full story.

I didn't think Gamespot was so desperate for attention that they would intentionally twist a quote like that.

Looks like Gamespot needs to hire someone to check their facts. This and that story with Duke Nukem Forever using the Doom3 engine...
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Vagabond said:
and there is an additional 4+ GB on every Xbox DVD second layer.

Pretty sure if it was static content that required all of that space, they'd deuce it up with the PS2 DVDs as well.
 

B'z-chan

Banned
PSP with MINI HDD built into its battery pack you heard it hear folks. Thats the only reason the PSP would ever need a keyboard.

no no seriously though..

I hope they do a good job of migration.
 

Diablos

Member
Maybe for the first time since 1994, you will see a true FF (not Chronicles or Tactics or whatever) appear on soemthing other than Sony and PC. It's about time.

Sony should have developed the PS2 with more affordable hardware so that they could include a hdd from the start. Instead, they develop their precious "emotion engine" and "graphics synthesiser," shoulda just worked with nVidia or ATI like everyone else did.
 

COCKLES

being watched
Xbox version would make sense with XNA. They could just release the current PC version with all the graphical trimmings including amazing lighting and stuff. Of course...the Xbox 2 probably won't have a HDD either. :(
 

Deg

Banned
Wishful thinking by the Nintendo and MS fans here. They mean once Ps2 gets phased out which will surely be after when Xbox and GC gets phased out.
 

hirokazu

Member
Spike said:
GameCube has the same online plan that Sony does. They offer the broadband/modem adapters for any developer that wishes to use it. Only difference being that Nintendo themselves haven't created an online game.

but Sony also markets and supports online on PS2, whereas Nintendo appears be to like, you can do online if you want, but frankly, we don't give a shit, so don't expect any assistance or support other than what's provided in the SDK...
 

Miburou

Member
It's amazing how many things Sony can get away with. 2 controller ports when everyone else had 4, always the most expensive console, revisions of hardware that drop features (first the i.link, now the PCMCIA port, and the PS1 always had features dropped one by one). Pretty soon Sony might stop selling the HDD and NA.
 

DSN2K

Member
Miburou said:
It's amazing how many things Sony can get away with. 2 controller ports when everyone else had 4, always the most expensive console, revisions of hardware that drop features (first the i.link, now the PCMCIA port, and the PS1 always had features dropped one by one). Pretty soon Sony might stop selling the HDD and NA.

Market leaders typically do.
 

MrSingh

Member
Deg said:
Wishful thinking by the Nintendo and MS fans here. They mean once Ps2 gets phased out which will surely be after when Xbox and GC gets phased out.

if you only knew what is going on at SE.

unfortunately GC has no HD.. and Xbox current HD might not be good enough for what FFXI currently requires.

so SE is up shit creek... the PC might be their only hope.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
I actually read those comments as they might focus more on the PC simply because of the lack of "graphical-growing" limitations... PC cards are always coming out, etc... that's just my take on it though.
 
"Of course...the Xbox 2 probably won't have a HDD either. :("

It would suck. I just hope they have a cheap add on to get the same ability as we have now. They obviously are going for a slim trim design. The HDD is just something else to take up space in the box, and we all know how important looks / size are for a console these days.
 

Defensor

Mistaken iRobbery!
SE is probably going to focus more on the PC version of FFXI and still support expansions and such for the PS2 version as well. As for the other consoles:

-Current XBOX Hdd isn't sufficient enough for FFXI
-Unless Nintendo offers to provide Hdd's for a FFXI packin, then it's not going to the cube.

Looking at my PS2 Hdd I get this:

Playonline Viewer is 1,024 MB
Tetra Master is 128 MB
Final Fantasy XI -Online- is 8,192 MB

I don't know how much gigs Chains of Promethia takes up but looking at what FFXI takes up on the PS2, it won't fit on the current XBOX Hdd. If I were Sony I would have kept the i.link port and even change the USB ports to 2.0.
 

NetMapel

Guilty White Male Mods Gave Me This Tag
This is precisely the type of move that Nintendo made back in the 16bit-era that made Square, and ultimately most of the 3rd parties to switch platform to Sony Playstation. I am very surprised Sony is making the same mistake...
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
NetMapel said:
This is precisely the type of move that Nintendo made back in the 16bit-era that made Square, and ultimately most of the 3rd parties to switch platform to Sony Playstation. I am very surprised Sony is making the same mistake...

It's not even in the same league. Sony's removing a rarely used peripheral from the PS2 about a year and a half before they retire the system outright, and about eight months before they introduce it's predecessor. Nintendo jumped to the next generation without moving to the same, cheaper media that Sony and Sega had adopted.

When the PS3 doesn't have a hard drive: That's when you can say that Sony's ego has damaged their dominance in video games.
 

1st Born

Member
The XBox hard-drive has some nice compression techinques.

OR. Since the XBox is broadband-only, maybe Sqaure and MS could get away with running FFXI's game world off of a dedicated server. Could it work?
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
1st Born said:
The XBox hard-drive has some nice compression techinques.

OR. Since the XBox is broadband-only, maybe Sqaure and MS could get away with running FFXI's game world off of a dedicated server. Could it work?

No, since Square is talking about next generation.

(And, wow, I just got around to reading the Gamespot article on their own site. Pick up the slack Thorsen, this is just fucking sloppy.)
 

WordofGod

Banned
I would like to know everyone's thoughts on the idea of SquareEnix changing platforms and going with Revolution or Xbox 2 in the nextgen war. How do you guys think it would play out?
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
WordofGod said:
I would like to know everyone's thoughts on the idea of SquareEnix changing platforms and going with Revolution or Xbox 2 in the nextgen war. How do you guys think it would play out?

Trick question, SE goes with whichever system gives them the biggest audience. I don't think - logically - anyone has a reason to believe that the XBox 2 or Revolution will be that system.
 

WordofGod

Banned
xsarien said:
Trick question, SE goes with whichever system gives them the biggest audience. I don't think - logically - anyone has a reason to think that the XBox 2 or Revolution will be that system.

I know, but I am looking more for the "what if" scenario. Think of it like that…
 

Scott

Member
As has been pointed out, this article has nothing to do with the removal of the HDD from the PStwo. It only has to do with Square Enix's plans to move the PS2 POL userbase over to new platforms after this generation is over... And, really, this is nothing new.

They've been talking for years about continuing support for FFXI & other POL titles far beyond this generation, which leaves them with a decision: Do they rely on Sony to make PS3 backwards compatible with PS2 HDD games? Do they port the title to next-gen platforms (with possible enhancements)? Or do they just go full-on sequel?

Anybody who has followed the interviews knows they're planning a sequel, they just don't know when. Personally, I'm expecting it a couple years into next generation, so it still leaves them with this problem... Do they just let the PS2 userbase continue to use their old systems to play? Or do they find a better solution for them?


Also, to clear up some confusion here:
:: There are over 500,000 subscribing users playing the game, and there's nearing 200k HDDs sold in the US alone. Granted, not all of them are still playing the game, but it's a safe bet that between the US & Japan, about half of the users are on PS2 (give or take).

:: The XBox's HDD is simply not large enough to fit FFXI. There is a max of 5 GB of writable space on the XBox's drive, with another 3 reserved for cache/developer use. Final Fantasy XI alone takes over 8 GB of space, with PlayOnline (a requirement to run the game) taking another 1 GB. This has nothing to do with lack of DVD space, or anything like that, as the game fully installs and the data is streamed from there. Basically, in it's current form, it just simply can't be done.

:: PlayOnline is meant to be a dial-up and broadband friendly service, so moving to XBox Live! would defeat that purpose, and cut into their userbase by a larger margin than most would like to admit. It would also defeat Square Enix's plans of having their own network (as PlayOnline basically is a service like Live!), but this could be easily worked around (much like with EA).

:: Lastly, no, streaming the world off the dedicated servers simply wouldn't work. The varying connections would cause issues far too often, as people would be loading areas much quicker than others. This would screw up pretty much everything party/alliance related. It would also boost Square Enix's bandwidth costs through the roof, and likely result in a larger fee for the XBox userbase. Just, no. :p
firex said:
It means sell your POL account, it's all over. When you want an MMORPG, play one that's fun.
firex, do me a favor and stop believing you know what you're talking about. You go into every thread about FFXI, troll it, make shit up, whatever you want to call it. You get your ass handed to you in every single thread, run away like a pussy, and then repeat in the next.

So really, knock it off. I think everyone's getting exhausted making you look like a fool.
 

border

Member
Even ignoring the fact that there is not enough room on the Xbox HDD, it is too late into the life of the Xbox to try and launch an MMORPG. That's half the reason that True Fantasy Live Online got cancelled.

So, they have to be looking at the next generation of consoles.

DCharlie says that HDDs will be too expensive to include in the Playstation 3. Assuming that this is true, they would have to push out another under-supported peripheral. If FFXI fans are as hopelessly addicted as some have said, this may not actually be a terrible idea.

Oxygen has intimated that even if Xbox 2 has some sort of mass-storage, it will probably not be gigabytes upon gigabytes. He has spoken fairly coyly about the advantages of flash memory and the fact that most Xbox users really aren't using more than a gig anyhow. Given those leanings, it looks like an add-on HDD would have to be provided even if the series goes to MS.

Nintendo? Yeah right. They won't even include DVD playback or go beyond token support for online. Good luck convincing them to put an HDD in their next system.

PC is a safe bet always, but the important Japanese market isn't too into PCs.

Spike said:
GameCube has the same online plan that Sony does. They offer the broadband/modem adapters for any developer that wishes to use it. Only difference being that Nintendo themselves haven't created an online game.
Or bundled the online adapter with the system. Or offered reduced royalty-rates to those creating online games. Or done anything to promote the peripheral. But it's the same strategy!
This is precisely the type of move that Nintendo made back in the 16bit-era that made Square and ultimately most of the 3rd parties to switch platform to Sony Playstation
Discontinuing support for an overpriced peripheral that less than 1% of the userbase was interested in.....that is what ended the support of all the 3rd parties?

Shit, I didn't think that the Super Scope Six was that popular!
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
border said:
Or bundled the online adapter with the system. Or offered reduced royalty-rates to those creating online games. Or done anything to promote the peripheral. But it's the same strategy!

To be fair, they do offer reduced royalty rates, and they seemed to be more than happy to make the adapter available when Sega was actively pushing PSO. The main, real difference is that unlike Sony, Nintendo is (allegedly) not very helpful with support issues regarding the device, often leaving developers to their own devices to get it working.

That's the only difference. Outside of that, they're just as hands off as Sony in regards to how companies control the online content, which is what differentiates both from Microsoft.
 
I'm sure it doesn't help either that Nintendo seem slightly too enthusiatic in dissing online gaming whenever given the oppurtunity, rather than just keeping schtum.

And my understanding of the comments if that whereas the PC version can be continually updated because of the 'ongoing' nature of the platform, the PS2 platform will eventually come to an end and that'll have to consider a new platform for that population to move to when that happens or else end up loosing about 50% of the games population (from my memory of sales chart there were about 200k PS2 users in Japan and over 100k in the US). I don't think it's enough to say they can go to the PC because you have to be thinking well they can go to the PC now but they haven't.

So I think the dilmena for SE is, do we keep FFXI going on PC and have the PS2 users upgrade to a next-gen version, or do we move the entire population onto FFXI-2?

And it seems like there will be no PS2 version for Europe, unles they mean they've only released it on the PC so far, rather than they'll only release it on PC ever.
 

Wulfer

Member
Have you guys forgot that M$ intends to make Xbox Live and PC Live cross compatible? Remember those 3 letters XNA???
 

firex

Member
Scott said:
So really, knock it off. I think everyone's getting exhausted making you look like a fool.
Well, I'm not wasting however much FFXI costs per month for a horrible timesink with antiquated gameplay that's more punishment than fun. I don't care that I don't know all the intricacies of FFXI (aka how devoid of anything but grinding on monsters most of the game is) though. Here's hoping Square copies WOW's design for their next MMO!
 

Wulfer

Member
It's in the works get over it! XNA will make PC and Xbox players be able to play together... Now in my book that's increasing the amount of players to more than one platform. XNA is designed to create XBOX and PC games together. M$ has already said this. What's the problem? Hell if you want too throw in that M$'s is offering XNA tools for others to use how does this limit user base? Can you tell me? How does those guidlines above not follow Playonline hmmm?


XBL type service cheat free environment and voice communication. Tell me where else you can get this?
 

Spike

Member
border said:
Or bundled the online adapter with the system. Or offered reduced royalty-rates to those creating online games. Or done anything to promote the peripheral. But it's the same strategy!

I shouldn't have said strategy. I should have said that they offer the same capabilities as Sony does. But again, they don't support online by creating a title themselves. Hey, I'm definitely not defending their asses for this one.
 

teiresias

Member
I don't think he was saying PlayOnline wasn't "compatible" with Xbox because of any technical reason, but because Square-Enix has its own pricing and billing structure for the software it offers through PlayOnline.

And FFXI really doesn't have any cheat problems aside from bots and the normal stuff you can do with the PC version of the game, I doubt there are many cheaters doing it on the PS2 version of the game anyway, so that's not really a perk that would be applicable to the Xbox exclusively.
 

Wulfer

Member
Here's the answer your looking for Sony paid Square to tease M$ into thinking it might get FFIX online and they came up with a front (Playonline) so, Square could say no. That's really all Playonline is and nothing more.
 
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