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Standing Rock: 250 tribes protest pipeline. Violence and arrests. Bail/counsel denied

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L

LegendofJoe

Member
US District Judge James Boasberg is the man responsible for making the decision to issue a stay or not. He said previously that he would issue his decision by the end of today.
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
John Caboose said:
Damn this image almost brought a tear to my eye. :(
Click to expand...

It doesn't stay like that. Yes, things get torn up due to a lot of heavy machinery moving around, and what you're seeing in that picture isn't even pipeline construction, but an open mine. Regardless, there's always a reclamation project (planting trees, restoring waterflow, grass etc) that takes place after the pipeline is in the ground.

The difference is that there will be what is called a right of way where trees aren't allowed to grow on either side for a fixed width.

After reclamation is done, obviously it will take some time for trees to grow back etc, but it tends to look something like this:

l5QA5qk.jpg


Now for the "less reliable source" that the OP posted, it's less reliable for a reason. They used the story of Native Americans protesting a pipeline being built and then showed you a picture of an open mine. All open mines look like this.

As for the Native Americans protesting, I'm on their side. We have to respect land that is important to them, so building far around what they deem sacred should be extremely important.
 
D

DpadD

Banned
LegendofJoe said:
US District Judge James Boasberg is the man responsible for making the decision to issue a stay or not. He said previously that he would issue his decision by the end of today.
Click to expand...

Bump.

Guys this shit is happening today. Let's keep this on the front page and try to spread the message.
 
G

Glix

Member
lawrence o'donnell made me cry when he was talking about this at the end of his show last week.

We have broken EVERY treaty we have ever made with the people who were here before us.

EVERY ONE.

We are disgusting. The fact that it is still going on is beyond shameful.
 
G

GiantBreadbug

Member
RiccochetJ said:
It doesn't stay like that. Yes, things get torn up due to a lot of heavy machinery moving around, and what you're seeing in that picture isn't even pipeline construction, but an open mine. Regardless, there's always a reclamation project (planting trees, restoring waterflow, grass etc) that takes place after the pipeline is in the ground.

The difference is that there will be what is called a right of way where trees aren't allowed to grow on either side for a fixed width.

After reclamation is done, obviously it will take some time for trees to grow back etc, but it tends to look something like this:

l5QA5qk.jpg


Now for the "less reliable source" that the OP posted, it's less reliable for a reason. They used the story of Native Americans protesting a pipeline being built and then showed you a picture of an open mine. All open mines look like this.

As for the Native Americans protesting, I'm on their side. We have to respect land that is important to them, so building far around what they deem sacred should be extremely important.
Click to expand...

Well it's cool that you think fossil fuel companies have the integrity to actually reclaim or restore anything (or properly ensure disasters don't occur), but they really generally don't, almost as a rule. It's a different place I guess, but I and others have watched oil and gas rip places like West Virginia apart with hollow promises like "we'll be nice to the environment guys promise."

Add the fact that there's almost no excuse to pull more fossil fuels out of the ground and remember the fucking literal thuggery that's taking place here, and I'd say there's just about no reason to act like pretty much anything nearly any oil or gas company does is okay or even fuckin legal (and if they are, lol, because the laws are written for them).
 
P

Puck Beaverton

Banned
I don't know why I was naive enough to believe we wouldn't do something like this again, yet here are.

The treatment of Natives in this country is/was deplorable.
 
L

LiquidSword

Member
I just can't believe this. They attacked peaceful protestors with dogs and they are just going to get away with it. No one cares. Who knows what will happen today and tomorrow.
 
M

Media

Member
John Blade said:
Judge won't block construction of Dakota Access Pipeline
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/dakota-pipeline-ruling-1.3754964
Click to expand...

LegendofJoe said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-stein-shell-answer-charge-pipeline-case-41973033

Seems to be true unfortunately
Click to expand...

This was what I was expecting.

I imagine that the company's suit of the Lakota leaders will be allowed to go through!

They are not going to give up. I hope they appeal and take this issue all the way to the supreme court, even though the work will be done by then, it will send a message.
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
GiantBreadbug said:
Well it's cool that you think fossil fuel companies have the integrity to actually reclaim or restore anything (or properly ensure disasters don't occur), but they really generally don't, almost as a rule.
Click to expand...
Really now. Because I know for a fact that the government will be up their ass in a heartbeat if they don't follow government regulations about disaster prevention and recovery. They get audited at fairly regular intervals and it's extremely stressful. If they fail, they could get fined millions or even up to getting the line shut down.


GiantBreadbug said:
It's a different place I guess, but I and others have watched oil and gas rip places like West Virginia apart with hollow promises like "we'll be nice to the environment guys promise."
Click to expand...
I'm interested in this. What exactly happened? Are there news stories I can look at? If it's happening like you say it is, that's absolutely despicable.

GiantBreadbug said:
Add the fact that there's almost no excuse to pull more fossil fuels out of the ground and remember the fucking literal thuggery that's taking place here, and I'd say there's just about no reason to act like pretty much anything nearly any oil or gas company does is okay or even fuckin legal (and if they are, lol, because the laws are written for them).
Click to expand...
You seem to be speaking from sheer emotion right now or you're completely ignorant of how much fossil fuels impacts your everyday life. Yes, alternative energies have made massive strides, but we still have a long way to go and still have a massive dependence on fossil fuels in our society.

There's a lot of shit that can get thrown big Oil's way, and god do they deserve it, but what I want is for people to be informed as you're making your arguments. Otherwise to me, you come across as the equivalent of someone hysterically claiming that vaccinations cause autism. The web site the OP linked where they're showing an open mine instead of what pipeline construction looks like was the equivalent of hitting up Jenny McCarthy's or the Food Babe's blog.
 
M

Media

Member
I will take that link out of the OP. At the time, it was one of the only places talking about this. It illustrates, I thought, what kind of impact big oil has on the land. But in an effort to keep this thread about the actual issue at hand instead of turning into debates about one picture, I will remove it.
 
T

thefro

Member
Mentioned in the other thread, but the Feds have stopped construction pending review.

Joint Statement said:
“We appreciate the District Court’s opinion on the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ compliance with the National Historic Preservation Act. However, important issues raised by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe and other tribal nations and their members regarding the Dakota Access pipeline specifically, and pipeline-related decision-making generally, remain. Therefore, the Department of the Army, the Department of Justice, and the Department of the Interior will take the following steps.

The Army will not authorize constructing the Dakota Access pipeline on Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe until it can determine whether it will need to reconsider any of its previous decisions regarding the Lake Oahe site under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) or other federal laws. Therefore, construction of the pipeline on Army Corps land bordering or under Lake Oahe will not go forward at this time. The Army will move expeditiously to make this determination, as everyone involved — including the pipeline company and its workers — deserves a clear and timely resolution. In the interim, we request that the pipeline company voluntarily pause all construction activity within 20 miles east or west of Lake Oahe.

“Furthermore, this case has highlighted the need for a serious discussion on whether there should be nationwide reform with respect to considering tribes’ views on these types of infrastructure projects. Therefore, this fall, we will invite tribes to formal, government-to-government consultations on two questions: (1) within the existing statutory framework, what should the federal government do to better ensure meaningful tribal input into infrastructure-related reviews and decisions and the protection of tribal lands, resources, and treaty rights; and (2) should new legislation be proposed to Congress to alter that statutory framework and promote those goals.

“Finally, we fully support the rights of all Americans to assemble and speak freely. We urge everyone involved in protest or pipeline activities to adhere to the principles of nonviolence. Of course, anyone who commits violent or destructive acts may face criminal sanctions from federal, tribal, state, or local authorities. The Departments of Justice and the Interior will continue to deploy resources to North Dakota to help state, local, and tribal authorities, and the communities they serve, better communicate, defuse tensions, support peaceful protest, and maintain public safety.

“In recent days, we have seen thousands of demonstrators come together peacefully, with support from scores of sovereign tribal governments, to exercise their First Amendment rights and to voice heartfelt concerns about the environment and historic, sacred sites. It is now incumbent on all of us to develop a path forward that serves the broadest public interest.”
Click to expand...
 
A

antipode

Member
Sounds like the US is asking for a halt in construction! Happened right after the ruling.

NYTimes is a bit stronger: "the United States government issued a statement saying it would, for the time being, not allow the pipeline to be built underneath [the river]..."

Both NYT and ABC report that "Justice and Interior Departments and the Army" asking for a voluntary pause from the pipeline company. Unclear what happens if the company doesn't comply.
 
P

Princess Carl

Member
antipode said:
Sounds like the US is asking for a halt in construction! Happened right after the ruling.

NYTimes is a bit stronger: "the United States government issued a statement saying it would, for the time being, not allow the pipeline to be built underneath [the river]..."

Both NYT and ABC report that "Justice and Interior Departments and the Army" asking for a voluntary pause from the pipeline company. Unclear what happens if the company doesn't comply.
Click to expand...

can we sic dogs on them?
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
Media said:
I will take that link out of the OP. At the time, it was one of the only places talking about this. It illustrates, I thought, what kind of impact big oil has on the land. But in an effort to keep this thread about the actual issue at hand instead of turning into debates about one picture, I will remove it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't attacking you. The website however was spreading some massive misinformation which, imo, was meant solely to get people riled up.

thefro said:
Mentioned in the other thread, but the Feds have stopped construction pending review.
Click to expand...

Awesome. I'm happy to see this result.

So in my post when I said that the government will be up your ass? This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
 
P

pompidu

Member
RiccochetJ said:
Sorry, I wasn't attacking you. The website however was spreading some massive misinformation which, imo, was meant solely to get people riled up.



Awesome. I'm happy to see this result.

So in my post when I said that the government will be up your ass? This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

When the media falls off from this, they will start building again. There is too much money involved.
 
D

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
antipode said:
Sounds like the US is asking for a halt in construction! Happened right after the ruling.

NYTimes is a bit stronger: "the United States government issued a statement saying it would, for the time being, not allow the pipeline to be built underneath [the river]..."

Both NYT and ABC report that "Justice and Interior Departments and the Army" asking for a voluntary pause from the pipeline company. Unclear what happens if the company doesn't comply.
Click to expand...

how nice
 
RiccochetJ

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
pompidu said:
When the media falls off from this, they will start building again. There is too much money involved.
Click to expand...

That's why watchdog and activist groups exist. They try to keep it in the public consciousness. Even here on GAF, things can stay at the front of our minds instead of getting distracted by what the PS4 Pro is going to be.

And just so no one is confused, I think them hiring private security was an absolutely boneheaded move. Someone made a massive mistake. Either they vastly underestimated the potential pushback from the construction, they knew and didn't care, or they knew and cared but completely botched the outreach.

Landowners can legally be absolutely miserable with pipelines if the companies don't respect them. They can restrict access to inspectors, equipment, or basically anyone from entering their land. I know about one land owner that planted their most expensive crop straight down the right of way so that the company had to compensate them for every potential harvest when they had to dig up a section of pipe to replace it. I thought it was absolutely hilarious.
 
T

Tomita

Member
From an article posted in the other thread, Obama administration orders ND pipeline construction to stop:

Dave Archambault II, the chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, hailed the decision, and vowed to continue fighting against the project.

“I want to take a moment and reflect on this historic moment in Indian Country,” Archambault said in a statement. “But I know that our work is not done. We need to to permanently protect our sacred sites and our water. There are areas on the construction route that do not fall within federal jurisdiction, so we will continue to fight.”
Click to expand...

So they're still doing construction in other areas away from the lake that still affect tribal interests?

I can't donate right now because of university stuff, but when that's settled I'll try to donate. I'm sure some of the protestors will remain and still need some aid sent their way.

Fingers crossed the negotiations bring about some real change, though I honestly don't know what to expect at this time. At least the construction by the water is being halted! But the Obama administration won't last for long, and I'm not sure we can trust Clinton to be much help. (Like, honestly? Because I have no idea what Clinton's "policy" is on Native American interests, but like most politicians it's probably not much of anything.)
 
C

ColdLasagna

Member
Can we get the two threads merged? This can't fall by the wayside.


Obama... props to you. I will miss you when you bounce, we may have not seen eye to eye on some things ( we agreed far more than disagreed) but on this one?

I got your back.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
Can anyone shed a little light on what's happening? I thought the reservations are land that is permanently owned by the respective native tribe. Why can a company just trespass and build a pipeline on it? Or are the parts this is about not part of the reservations?
 
M

Media

Member
Frankfurter said:
Can anyone shed a little light on what's happening? I thought the reservations are land that is permanently owned by the respective native tribe. Why can a company just trespass and build a pipeline on it? Or are the parts this is about not part of the reservations?
Click to expand...

Historically, there have been many instances of the government taking back land from reservations. For example, the Black Hills.

But also land that has been set aside as protected via national parks, that unofficially belongs to natives. These are off reservation sacred sites, like the burial grounds that were bulldozed in this case. These places, because the government officially owns them, are subject to the government granting companies rights to them. And example of this is what happened at Oak Flats.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
Media said:
Historically, there have been many instances of the government taking back land from reservations. For example, the Black Hills.

But also land that has been set aside as protected via national parks, that unofficially belongs to natives. These are off reservation sacred sites, like the burial grounds that were bulldozed in this case. These places, because the government officially owns them, are subject to the government granting companies rights to them. And example of this is what happened at Oak Flats.
Click to expand...

I see, thank you.
 
D

dripdripsplash

Member
RiccochetJ said:
Really now. Because I know for a fact that the government will be up their ass in a heartbeat if they don't follow government regulations about disaster prevention and recovery. They get audited at fairly regular intervals and it's extremely stressful. If they fail, they could get fined millions or even up to getting the line shut down.



I'm interested in this. What exactly happened? Are there news stories I can look at? If it's happening like you say it is, that's absolutely despicable.


You seem to be speaking from sheer emotion right now or you're completely ignorant of how much fossil fuels impacts your everyday life. Yes, alternative energies have made massive strides, but we still have a long way to go and still have a massive dependence on fossil fuels in our society.

There's a lot of shit that can get thrown big Oil's way, and god do they deserve it, but what I want is for people to be informed as you're making your arguments. Otherwise to me, you come across as the equivalent of someone hysterically claiming that vaccinations cause autism. The web site the OP linked where they're showing an open mine instead of what pipeline construction looks like was the equivalent of hitting up Jenny McCarthy's or the Food Babe's blog.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your level headed responses.
 
D

DpadD

Banned
So press is being arrested for reporting on something that powerful people did not want reported on...

Any whenever conspiracy theories are tossed around, people scoff...

Do we, as a general populace, really have a firm understanding of the true nature of things in this country?
 
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