Starfield
Member
Dude, they have 91 MILLION Dollars to spend on that game. This is much more than most AAA games even have for developing AND marketing a game. They'll be fine.
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Star Citizen Pre-Alpha: 'Arena Commander' Dogfighting
- Thread starter MrBig
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Dude, they have 91 MILLION Dollars to spend on that game. This is much more than most AAA games even have for developing AND marketing a game. They'll be fine.
Also, voice acting/mo-cap for a video game is a lot cheaper than hiring actors for a movie.
Zalusithix
Member
Meh, melted the majority of my stuff for the Armada pack. Org is minus one Orion (among other things) and plus one Idris. After mulling on it for some time, I came to the conclusion that the Idris (closest thing to a carrier that we can get) is the most useful thing for the Org as a whole, and I doubt they'll be on sale in a remotely "affordable" way again with LTI. I'll CCU the Gladiator to the Orion when it hits general availability to regain that functionality. Likewise, I'll CCU one of my spare Reliants to the Khartu, and the other to an M50/350R the next time they're on sale for my own personal use. That'll net me back pretty much all the ships I really care about.
Why do people insist on talking about things they don't know about? I googled it, why couldn't you?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=181278648&postcount=310
Dictator93
Member
Nice! You should be able to get much better use out of that compared to trying to coordinate loaning out dozens of ships.
There's one other in there too (Mylene) so we're in really good shape now.
Haven't posted this in a while:
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To join the NeoGAF Star Citizen Org: [Sign up]
(please include your GAF name in the message)
Quote this to see the link to the roster spreadsheet and add your details.
I had a feeling it was that but it seemed so outlandish.
Zalusithix
Member
I'll still have enough ships that delegation of them is going to be an interesting puzzle to solve. Meanwhile getting enough people to staff the Idris will be a problem in its own right. Granted it'll probably be easier to fill out the 10 people for the Idris than it will be for you to find the 16 to man the Endeavor (assuming no NPCs). Then again, I don't know if the 10 count is even accurate. Seems like it should require a fair number more than that at its current size.
Yeah, I knew we already had one Idris. A second seemed like a good way to project force into multiple directions at once or have a heavy force in a singular location. Two frigate class ships, each loaded with ~4 small ships, accompanied by an assortment of medium ships should provide one hell of a space battle.
At any rate, having more mobile bases of operation can only be a good thing as it'll allow people with small ships to have the ability to repair and reload where they'd otherwise be unable to. Out in Vanduul territory, small ships are going to be at a heavy disadvantage as they don't really have the self repair capability that the medium class ships do (via EVA otherwise).
Also, your entry in the roster is outdated. =P Still have an Orion there.
Oh yeah, Endeavor wasn't in the validation list at the time and I didn't want to mess it up. Updated now.
Two Idrises will definitely have some advantages. I was just mentioning it for the folks who weren't aware of the roster sheet. Fixed up the wording there.
Two Idrises will definitely have some advantages. I was just mentioning it for the folks who weren't aware of the roster sheet. Fixed up the wording there.
Zalusithix
Member
Updating the roster for additional ships and whatnot is actually rather easy and straight forward now. Just a matter of pulling up the ship matrix page and plugging in a new entry to the bottom of the manual entry fields (columns A-D). Additional BUKs/Modules get slotted into column E. It'll add and resort everything for validation on the Member entry page. The only real manual changes needed are on the ship counts page where hidden rows need to be unhidden and the blank ones rehidden to expand the lists for additional ships/roles/whatever.
Starbuck2907
Member
I'm debating buying an Endeavor before the sale ends.
Would this be useful in an org you think?
I've also debated cashing in ALL my ships and getting the Armada Pack...but I hate to spend that much money.
Here are most of my ships right now:
Vanguard Harbringer (with sentinal upgrade)
Ageis Retaliator
Aegis Sabre
Genesis Starliner
Reliant Mini Hauler (x4 to melt and carry the LTI over to other ships)
Hull B
Origin 325a
Merlin
Would this be useful in an org you think?
I've also debated cashing in ALL my ships and getting the Armada Pack...but I hate to spend that much money.
Here are most of my ships right now:
Vanguard Harbringer (with sentinal upgrade)
Ageis Retaliator
Aegis Sabre
Genesis Starliner
Reliant Mini Hauler (x4 to melt and carry the LTI over to other ships)
Hull B
Origin 325a
Merlin
Yup, I have the master set (updated in the sheet now). Having a second for the combat support could be handy for working in two places at once or as a backup in the same operation.
DirtyManos
Member
I should probably go in and note that I updated my Starfarer to a Starfarer Gemini.
Safe space truckin' is probably gonna be too boring for me, I'm gonna be all about that Frontier Space Truckin' and I'm gonna need muh big guns and armor.
Anticipating big tanker explosions from trying to frontier worlds and good times.
Safe space truckin' is probably gonna be too boring for me, I'm gonna be all about that Frontier Space Truckin' and I'm gonna need muh big guns and armor.
Anticipating big tanker explosions from trying to frontier worlds and good times.
Zalusithix
Member
Even if you melted every single ship you owned, the Armada would be a significant outlay (over $1000 by my calculations). Many of the ships in the pack aren't similar to the ones you have either. In my case is was more sensible as I already had the vast majority of the ships in the pack as separate ships. I basically just repurchased them in a different form. You'd be trading ship functionality on a large scale. Given those points and the fact that we have two Idris now, I don't think you need to really consider the Armada pack. Unless you really want an Idris, it's just not that sensible in your position IMO.
As for the Endeavor, we have one of those with all the modules thanks to Raticus79, so you don't need to feel obliged to purchase one. I mean, technically you'd be able to buy one without spending anything depending on how many of your current ships you wanted to sacrifice, but that's a trade off that only you decide if it's worthwhile. Sure the Org could come up with a use for a second Endeavor, but it could just as easily make use of your other ships too. (Not to mention, you're the only one with a Genesis that we know of.) You could also purchase one outright without selling anything for less than the Armada pack would have set you back, but I'm hesitant to ever seriously push people to spend money for the Org.
Consider your own desires first, and if they happen to line up with the Org's needs then all the better. If you want an Endeavor and just want to know if the Org could use it, then have at it. If you're only considering it because of the Org, and otherwise it doesn't interest you much, then I'd say don't bother. Part of managing the Org will be working with what we do have, and planning around it with the goal of obtaining the things that we don't.
Yup, well said. I went for the Endeavor over the Orion since it happened to suit my style. Good point about having the only Starliner too.
We'll definitely be able to coordinate filling in any gaps. For example, getting someone in an Orion could be a good early goal.
We'll definitely be able to coordinate filling in any gaps. For example, getting someone in an Orion could be a good early goal.
Noice. I'm super fucking jelly.A friend of mine has been working as a designer on Star Citizen for about a year now and got the chance to do some mo capping with Mark Hamill and Liam Cunningham, insanely jealous!
Starbuck2907
Member
I went ahead and bought an Endeavor - Hope class (medical unit with landing bay).
I know that insurance isn't supposed to be a "big deal" in the game, but I like having LTI. I'm an older gamer and I don't have time to mess around dealing with insurance or other things that take up my in-game time. When I play, I want to be free of as many minor burdens as possible to just play the game and not worry about stuff like that or hangar fees. Plus, I don't mind funding the development of the game. It really does seem like the most ambitious game I've seen come along in a long, long time.
I tried to get a wide variety of ships. I don't even know what I will use them all for, but I thought it would be nice to have a variety so I could try things out. Also, won't I be able to lease them in-game or let other org members use them?
I'm planning on melting a few of my Reliants in order to get LTI Super-Hornets, a Connie of some sort, and a cutlass of some sort.
Question 1: The Super-Hornet is a permanent thing in the store right? It isn't just "back" this weekend for the military sale right?
Question 2: Are more Connie variants coming out? I'm leaning toward picking up a Phoenix variant right now, but I thought I would wait and see what else is coming, if anything. Which variant has the most hard points? I know I can look it up but I forgot.
Aceshighhhh
Member
The problem is that Gary doesn't sound like that. They probably had him exaggerate the character which lessened the impact of the scene imo.
First footage of the Squadron 42 campaign, showing the introduction phase onboard UEE Stanton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qexLUpQJPw8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qexLUpQJPw8
91 million is a lot of money, but it's not more than most AAA games have for development and marketing. AAA development is incredibly expensive.
Dictator93
Member
They use it basically all for dev. They have an insignifcant "marketing" budget. So I am not sure what your point is....
A friend of mine has been working as a designer on Star Citizen for about a year now and got the chance to do some mo capping with Mark Hamill and Liam Cunningham, insanely jealous!
So awesome.
Spuck-uk
Banned
It really isn't. GTA V had a budget of 265 million dollars, and promised (and actually delivered) far less than Roberts has.
I worked in game dev for ten years, I know what development costs, they don't have enough for thats promised, period, especially if they piss away millions on voice acting.
Starfield
Member
The key difference between GTA V and SC is that gta came out once it was DONE. Rockstar HAD the money already to build this game. CIG didnt. They rely on donations and backers. They can only throw in so much they get. Also SC is an unfinished game because....duh....it isnt finished yet. They have to build the game from ground up and the whole world can see its dev process. For GTA V you werent able to and thus were never able to see any hiccups, huge fauls, etc....
Marketing is ahuge deal for any kind of game. I think CIG will do fine with the (still growing) budget they have.
But hey, as a game dev you should know things like that
Pretty good summary of CIG's CryEngine enhancements.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/38pb1o/discussioncollaboration_decided_to_try_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/38pb1o/discussioncollaboration_decided_to_try_and/
You mean advertising or maybe promotional budget right? Because they've allocated plenty of resources into marketing the game since day one.
Couldn't help myself, the urge to nitpick overwhelmed me.
Dictator93
Member
You have me condused, what are you referencing with advertising budget? You mean the subscriber stuff which is a separate revenue stream from the funding listed on their website?
staticneuron
Member
But hey, as a game dev you should know things like that
Also That budget for GTAV includes marketing. GTAV was a multiplatform title, cost includes cert, manufacturing and distribution. There are no procedural generated content in GTAV. ALL of it is hand crafted, so the vast majority of time and effort was actually on content in game. It is not to say that they couldn't have programmed something more impressive in terms of robust job system, it is that was not their aim from the start. But what hey do have is pretty impressive. But RSI's goal is to release S42 (in finished state but in chapters) and the PU in an alpha mode and bring all the systems online. Since their next major release is basically the PU (as I got from the Citizen con presentation) the are basically almost there. Once the systems are in place and the only thing left is to add more content (star systems and landing zones). Then it goes to show where budget really lies in game dev.
But again, I wouldn't be informing a game dev of that. They would already know that.
They haven't. Commercials for certain ships were actually in kickstarter goals and the videos they release are thanks to subscribers which specifically state that subscriber payments go directly to the creation of these videos.
I was just picking on your choice of words.
Of course they have. I'm not talking about advertising. I'm talking about marketing, under which most communication regarding the game from CIG would probably fall under. Again, just nitpicking on the choice of words, not trying to be all serious here.
As a game developer, I think it is a bit disingenuous for you to be using the total budget of the game. We know that at least half of that figure was allocated towards marketing.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Okay, that's fair if they're doing zero marketing on the game. We can compare it against the 130 million dev cost. My point stands, I'm incredibly sceptical that they can make the game they've promised, for the money they have particularly when doing questionable things like throwing millions at Hollywood actors with little to no track record of voice acting for games.*
I'd love all these dreams to come true with the game, but I really don't see that they have the capital, even if they had a top level management team with a better track record of delivery.
*exception for Mark Hamill, a genuinely incredible voice actor
Zalusithix
Member
LTI is nice, but remember that it only covers the base ship. You're still going to have to manage insurance for any upgrades and changes made to the ship. These things will undoubtedly end up costing more to insure than the base ship itself after a certain point.
Leasing and delegating out ship roles is supposedly going to be a thing. It's really the only way these large ships are going to be viable outside of NPCs. How it'll all end up working exactly is anybody's guess at this stage though.
As for the questions:
- The SH is not a permanent ship. It's only available during sale events where they make it available. The regular FC-7 and the tracker and ghost variants are there all the time however.
- As far as we're aware there aren't any additional Constellation variants planned, though every one is going through a redesign pass. That said, you wont be able to pick up a Phoenix. That was a time and ship count limited ship. It's highly unlikely to go on sale again outside of the PU, and even there it'll probably be hard to obtain. As for the available variants, what one you choose depends on what you want out of it. The Aquila is geared towards exploration, the Taurus is for hauling, and the Andromeda is the jack of all trades which is also the most combat oriented of the three.
That ever increasing backer funding probably opens up more than a few lines of credit if they're that desperate for cash, but I'm sure those tax incentives for the creative industry in the UK can't hurt either. Strapped for cash they ain't.
Whether the end product is half as good as they promise is still a valid question.
Spuck-uk
Banned
A shame the tax incentives for the games industry never materialised over here in the UK. The industry might be in a better shape
Huw_Dawson
Member
Serkis has VG experience too - Saveedro in Myst 3 (he's the tititular Exile and did a great job).
Spuck's point about money is fair, overall, but I actually don't think there's a lot to worry about here. GTA5 has a hell of a lot of content, a multiplayer mode and was released on two consoles, with PC and nextgen also worked on. I'd bet far more than 265 people worked on it, too.
In short I think the budget will be fine.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Ah, didn't see Serkis. He's a smart pick and very good as well.
Have they scrapped the different modes then? Been a while since I checked in, but wasn't there a persistent universe planned as well as the single player game and dogfighting multiplayer? MMOs are a titanic money sink to create and upkeep.
A shame the tax incentives for the games industry never materialised over here in the UK. The industry might be in a better shape
They didn't go through with it? I guess Tories don't like making extra money.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Yeah, and they used Serkis' own mocap studio. Anyone wanna say mate's rates?
My understanding is that their plan is as such:
'Squadron 42' - a Wing Commander spiritual successor developed by Foundry 42 in Manchester and Frankfurt.
'Star Citizen' - An ambitious multiplayer space sim in a persistent universe. Developed as the main underbedding of S42 as well as its own thing, referred to as Persistent Universe.
Assests from S42 are also used in SC. F42 works on assets for the PU, too.
Bits of SC have come out. More bits will roll out and begin to connect together as time goes on - it is an ongoing project.
S42 will come out next year as a standalone title that works as a prequel to the setting of SC.
S42 was originally the pitch of the Kickstarter.
One important note about the budget: S42 is an independent title. There's no publisher looking for a payout. All the money from S42 will return to the studios to keep on developing PU.
PU is of course a scope creeper. S42 has a known 'done' state now, with finalised plot, VA and I'd imagine a seriously nailed down budget.
PU is really big, yeah, but S42 itself will not be equivalent in scale to something like GTA, and I think it will certainly come out.
My understanding is that their plan is as such:
'Squadron 42' - a Wing Commander spiritual successor developed by Foundry 42 in Manchester and Frankfurt.
'Star Citizen' - An ambitious multiplayer space sim in a persistent universe. Developed as the main underbedding of S42 as well as its own thing, referred to as Persistent Universe.
Assests from S42 are also used in SC. F42 works on assets for the PU, too.
Bits of SC have come out. More bits will roll out and begin to connect together as time goes on - it is an ongoing project.
S42 will come out next year as a standalone title that works as a prequel to the setting of SC.
S42 was originally the pitch of the Kickstarter.
One important note about the budget: S42 is an independent title. There's no publisher looking for a payout. All the money from S42 will return to the studios to keep on developing PU.
PU is of course a scope creeper. S42 has a known 'done' state now, with finalised plot, VA and I'd imagine a seriously nailed down budget.
PU is really big, yeah, but S42 itself will not be equivalent in scale to something like GTA, and I think it will certainly come out.
Spuck-uk
Banned
I guess their friends don't own any dev studios/publishers.
MrSilentGuy
Member
Well, you forgot that Mark Strong, Gary Oldman, Andy Serkis already worked as voice actors in video games. Mark in Warhammer 40K: Space Marine, Andy in Volume, Enslaved, Risen, Heavenly Sword and Gary Oldman in Call of Duty: World at War and Black Ops. John Rhys Davies who played in Wing Commander III-IV, was also voice actor in Lords of the Rings games. Gillian Anderson worked on X-file game. So I wouldn't be worried about that. Chris Roberts choose quite experienced cast who can deliver at least good performance under the right direction.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Yeah, and they used Serkis' own mocap studio. Anyone wanna say mate's rates?
My understanding is that their plan is as such:
'Squadron 42' - a Wing Commander spiritual successor developed by Foundry 42 in Manchester and Frankfurt.
'Star Citizen' - An ambitious multiplayer space sim in a persistent universe. Developed as the main underbedding of S42 as well as its own thing, referred to as Persistent Universe.
Assests from S42 are also used in SC. F42 works on assets for the PU, too.
Bits of SC have come out. More bits will roll out and begin to connect together as time goes on - it is an ongoing project.
S42 will come out next year as a standalone title that works as a prequel to the setting of SC.
Ah okay, what's the FPS stuff then?
Squadron 42 sounds doable with their budget alright.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Oh, I know the others have done voice work I just really didn't rate them, especially Oldman.
Gary Oldman has been in many games, including COD:W@W, COD:Blops, Spyro, True Crime, Medal of Honor etc, and he's had many roles.
Mark Hamill and Andy Serkis have many voice acting roles, including video games.
John Rhys Davies has several voice acting roles, including several games.
Same with Gillian Anderson, she's been in one old game and two X-files games.
Mark Strong has been in a game or two as well.
Also, we are in the age of performance capture. Just voice acting isn't good enough for many AAA games, though some voice actors are great at performance capture as well (see Troy Baker and Nolan North) - we've seen several AAA games with actors, including COD:AW with Kevin Spacey (and that was pretty good imo), Ellen Page and Willem Defoe in Beyond: Two Souls, Charles Dance in TW3, Yvonne Strahovski in ME2, Vin Diesel in Riddick games etc etc.
Huw_Dawson
Member
FPS stuff is basically the glue underpinning everything. It's not its own mode. Because it is built on CryEngine FPS is supported natively and they use it for running about, shooting other players and entering vehicles.
Think of it a bit like Arma - Arma is a war sim which utilises FPS heavily.
PU is a bit like Arma meets Eve Online.
Honestly at this point I am amazed that Bruce Campbell isn't knocking about this project, given he's done space shooters before (anyone remember Tachyon The Fringe?)
Think of it a bit like Arma - Arma is a war sim which utilises FPS heavily.
PU is a bit like Arma meets Eve Online.
Honestly at this point I am amazed that Bruce Campbell isn't knocking about this project, given he's done space shooters before (anyone remember Tachyon The Fringe?)
3 of the main billed actors do have experience in VO. That is, Gary Oldman, Mark Hamill and Mark Strong. I'd also say that performance capture is well within the wheelhouse of any actor.
We don't know how much they spent on the actors, but they are meeting stretch goals of the crowdfunding campaign.
Irobot82
Member
Don't forget Gillian Anderson.
Dictator93
Member
"This game is full feature creep, you'll never see any stretch goals!"
/demonstrates a variety of stretch goals well beyond people's expectations
"It was all scripted!"
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