WadiumArcadium
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
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Join the club. Surely there wouldn't be another one. We've had two already!
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Plus, crew scuttlebutt is usually unreliable as an indicator of the movie's overall quality anyway.
Hell, there were large chunks of the crew in 76 certain they were helping this weird-beard with the quiet voice sink his own career.
Hell, there were large chunks of the crew in 76 certain they were helping this weird-beard with the quiet voice sink his own career.
Maybe they didnt started right after Endor?
A shortage of independent contractors as a result of many dying on the second Death Star.
I can believe JJ doing it though.
Doublesith
Member
Yup. Most of the crew is only seeing pieces of the whole.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Wasn't there a rumor that it is a solar system buster instead of a planet buster this time around?
Eh, I don't really buy the death star rumor.
If a scene like that does appear, I can only imagine it working in that rumored young Leia flashback scene. Don't make it the focus of the movie, but still a big part of Leia's development between Jedi and now. It would make sense for the rebellion to need new leadership in a new series of movies, and have one of the new leads take on that role.
It would give Leia some reason for being in the movie. I'm sure we can expect some good actiony bits with Solo, and Luke in a Obi-Wan role is obvious, but I was never really sure what Leia could do beside just being there for a bit.
If a scene like that does appear, I can only imagine it working in that rumored young Leia flashback scene. Don't make it the focus of the movie, but still a big part of Leia's development between Jedi and now. It would make sense for the rebellion to need new leadership in a new series of movies, and have one of the new leads take on that role.
It would give Leia some reason for being in the movie. I'm sure we can expect some good actiony bits with Solo, and Luke in a Obi-Wan role is obvious, but I was never really sure what Leia could do beside just being there for a bit.
PerezDeCorcho
Member
A new Death Star would fucking suck.
freethought
Member
Her planet had no weapons and she sat by helplessly watching as it was destroyed, this planet is a weapon and she's the one that has to destroy it.
I can see someone thinking that's a good idea. It's like poetry, but it doesn't rhyme.
Why should we be surprised at the Death Star? We saw X Wings, Ties and the Falcon. You think you develop a weapon capable of destroying a planet and then just stop building them?
Honestly, that's all kind of a bummer if true.
That's starting to sound like exactly what they've done.
Wow, I never wanted a pure adaptation of any EU material post-ROTJ but now I'm starting to think that anything would have been better than just a remake of Star Wars.
FriendlyGoat
Member
They didn't yet have the same vast resources and slave labor (or whatever was used) of the Empire to build a metal sphere the size of a moon?
On one hand, the Death Star rumor seems like the kind of fake but plausible-sounding-enough-to-gain-traction kind of rumor that someone would concoct based on JJ's past tendencies along with other rumors. A little going back to the original concept with a twist (i.e. spocks planet being destroyed, spock + uhura, secret weapon developed by the federation unknown by key leaders, khan as an ally) mixed with rumors of blurred lines between rebels + empire (i.e. rebels commanding star destroyers), planetary superweapons (yeah, blowing up a planet weapon with a death star makes sense), and moral grey areas (that aren't really grey). Then there is the idea that once a superweapon is introduced into an arms race (nuclear weapons), there really is no going back as all start racing towards that as the end point.
On the other hand, it would be incredibly lame and almost against common sense to recall THAT much of A New Hope. Surely nobody would do that to us. Oh god.
This caught my attention:
Why? Because as much as I love JJ Abrams and his style of cinematography, you have to admit he rehashes a lot from other directos, adding only a more modern and realistic art-style.
My fear is that, like Star Trek: Into Darkness, he just tries to copy what worked before (Wrath of Khan) with some added camera angels, lens flairs and more updated design. Super 8 is another one that borrows heavily from mostly Spielberg and other movies in the 80s, when he was growing up.
Nothing wrong with trying to bring back late 70s and 80s storytelling, but as we saw with Into Darkness, if not done write, you end up with a half-assed attempt to live-off nostalgia, and that is all. And a lot of the rumors around The Force Awakens indicate they are trying to go for another Empire Strikes Back, with twist and all at the end.
Why? Because as much as I love JJ Abrams and his style of cinematography, you have to admit he rehashes a lot from other directos, adding only a more modern and realistic art-style.
My fear is that, like Star Trek: Into Darkness, he just tries to copy what worked before (Wrath of Khan) with some added camera angels, lens flairs and more updated design. Super 8 is another one that borrows heavily from mostly Spielberg and other movies in the 80s, when he was growing up.
Nothing wrong with trying to bring back late 70s and 80s storytelling, but as we saw with Into Darkness, if not done write, you end up with a half-assed attempt to live-off nostalgia, and that is all. And a lot of the rumors around The Force Awakens indicate they are trying to go for another Empire Strikes Back, with twist and all at the end.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
That's my main concern with the movie.
Based on what has been leaked, I am reasonably sure that a blue-collar civilian's home is burned to the ground by stormtroopers led by a masked villain. She eventually meets up with a small group of rebels and learns the ways of the force.
Additionally, old characters are returning and likely make references to the old movies. And I don't think it would be a stretch to say the movie ends with a lightsaber fight/space battle.
I like JJ as a person. Had a brief conversation in passing back in 2013 with him and overall he seems like a great guy.
That said, this whole thing seems so uninspired. It seems like the goal is to lure people's nostalgia to this movie. I never wanted more Star Wars movies but with Disney buying things this was bound to happen. I at least wanted movies that were different and exciting.
Some people just seem elated to see Fisher, Hamill, and Ford. For many, that is all it takes. Shame...
Presenting...the Life Star.
OricWindstar
Member
Yeah, that's a pretty apt way to describe him. His interviews always seem very forced with excitement.
brandonh83
Banned
Looks like the Star Wars prequels are about to be given a helping hand from its very own Zelda cycle. LOL Jesus Christ some of these directors and movies just can't win with everyone.
The execution of the prequels were terrible. But the idea behind them were very fresh and very different than the OT in a good way. It was the execution that failed, not the story outline behind them.
Take away all the awful dialogue, acting, cgi, etc. And look at it very high level. The core story of the prequels as in how Palpatine rose to power, turned the Republic into the Empire and killed the Jedi was done in a VERY unique way for stories like this.
Pre-prequels I remember most assumed the clone wars was basically just like the Rebels vs. the Empire but with Clones involved in which the Emperor won a war and the Empire took over.
But what happened really was a proxy war used as a tool to be able to setup the destruction of the Jedi and gain the war time support to increase power to the point the Republic morphs into a Empire without most people even realizing what happened in joyous celebration of the beloved Palpatine.
It ended up mirroring the rise of Hitler rather than a typical blockbuster bad guy who wants to take over by blowing things up.
Lucas messed up in the execution of the thing but what he was trying to tell was a brilliant idea.
Take away all the awful dialogue, acting, cgi, etc. And look at it very high level. The core story of the prequels as in how Palpatine rose to power, turned the Republic into the Empire and killed the Jedi was done in a VERY unique way for stories like this.
Pre-prequels I remember most assumed the clone wars was basically just like the Rebels vs. the Empire but with Clones involved in which the Emperor won a war and the Empire took over.
But what happened really was a proxy war used as a tool to be able to setup the destruction of the Jedi and gain the war time support to increase power to the point the Republic morphs into a Empire without most people even realizing what happened in joyous celebration of the beloved Palpatine.
It ended up mirroring the rise of Hitler rather than a typical blockbuster bad guy who wants to take over by blowing things up.
Lucas messed up in the execution of the thing but what he was trying to tell was a brilliant idea.
"From the director of STAR TREK - THE WRATH OF INTO DARKNESS comes
THE FORCE AWAKENS, breathing much needed new life into the ailing franchise."
When Leia is forced to make the decision to destroy the Jedi killer planet by using Death Star 3...I wonder if it rhymes.. you know like poetry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxU2eqZtYmc
THE FORCE AWAKENS, breathing much needed new life into the ailing franchise."
When Leia is forced to make the decision to destroy the Jedi killer planet by using Death Star 3...I wonder if it rhymes.. you know like poetry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxU2eqZtYmc
Grover Cleveland
Member
It's pretty clear that JJ is going to make these movies as close to the OT in theme and story as he possibly can without calling them straight remakes.
That's what happens when you have an entire fanbase crying for the past fifteen years about the prequels sucking and they wished they were more like the original trilogy.
That's what happens when you have an entire fanbase crying for the past fifteen years about the prequels sucking and they wished they were more like the original trilogy.
Remember, one of the few pieces of information we got when the Lucas/Ardnt verision of the film was scrapped was Abrams beefed up the roles of the original characters that were not nearly as significant in Lucas's original story treatments.
It should have been obvious then Abrams was going to play up the originals much more so than Lucas was planning to at that point.
Thing is we have Rian Johnson doing 8 and 9. I can't see him leaning on the nostalgia side of things that heavily.
It should have been obvious then Abrams was going to play up the originals much more so than Lucas was planning to at that point.
Thing is we have Rian Johnson doing 8 and 9. I can't see him leaning on the nostalgia side of things that heavily.
Of all the times we've disagreed. Of all the borderline offensive things said...
Cheebo, this time we agree.
The PT was never going to be what fans wanted it to be, nor should it have been. It was what it needed to be. It could certainly have been better, but the nature of the films were dead on.
We may not agree on the EU at all but when it comes the now I guess you can call them "original 6" from what I have seen of you say as well I am pretty much in agreement with you.
Honestly, the biggest thing that worries me is turning Star Wars into a yearly film franchise, not to mention a yearly film franchise that will cling to the OT desperately (first time we get a movie that isn't tied down to the saga storyline it of course looks to be a Han and/or Boba Fett movie set near the OT era...) just won't work out in the long-run creatively. Things will get tired fast and it will just become a replica of the Marvel Cinematic Universe where we just quickly move from film to film and forget about the last one rather quickly. They will make bucketloads of money but they will just be "oh yeah thats right, this years Star Wars movie" sort of movies.
Even with the prequels people were nitpicking them for YEARS and that will be oddly missed in it's own way, that will be long-gone even with any potential weak film we get because soon as the last movie hits it is time to get hyped for the next one.
freethought
Member
That's not how Hitler rose to power. He manipulated public unrest, which was largely due to the punishing reparations forced on Germany by the treaty of Versailles and how damaging it was to the German economy. Hitler basically channeled that anger into an intense wave of antisemitism and to a lesser extent anticommunism which he rode into power.
I think Lucas was really aiming more for a Caesar analogy, who was elected Tyrant in a time of crisis, built up military power in a war of conquest and ultimately used it to seize power from the Senate. Of course, if that's what he was he was going for, he botched it. Caesar ruled as part of a triumvirate but his popularity made him dangerous to Crassus and Pompey so after his initial term was up he was given a governorship far from Rome. Of course he made sure he went where he wanted and ending up conquering half of Europe before marching on Rome and chasing his enemies from the city.
You could argue he was killed by a trusted friend, but as he'd already been stabbed by half the senate before Brutus stuck the knife in, it's still not a great analogy.
Death Star bit sounds like taking the whole Super Star Destroyer thing from the EU where elements of the Republic thought the Government was morons and couldn't be trusted to defend the Galaxy so kept hidden a bunch of Imperial ships in case ever needed.
Some element of the Republic feels Government is morons and needs to be ready against the Empire so now builds the very thing they fought against and the big Irony is the woman who lost everything to the first Death Star will now suddenly be confronted with using the new one or not.
Some element of the Republic feels Government is morons and needs to be ready against the Empire so now builds the very thing they fought against and the big Irony is the woman who lost everything to the first Death Star will now suddenly be confronted with using the new one or not.
Wait Boba trained to be horrible?
I've never seen it suggested that the inspiration for the plot was Caesar before, so that's an interesting thought. I actually don't think it meshes as well as the Nazi allegory, though, which I think is the conventional assumption of what Lucas was inspired by. Particularly, the rather common belief that the Reichstag fire was secretly caused by Nazis and blamed on Communists, and the Nazis taking full control in the aftermath of that, feels much more like what Palpatine was doing to me. Unlike Caesar's conquests, Palpatine kept the war going (with the Republic even looking like it might lose) right up until he had his "enabling act" going, at which point he quickly moved to end the war.
Also, the nature of the democracy in the Weimar Republic, as well as its enabling act effectively ending democracy, is much closer to what we see in the Star Wars prequels.
But of course, it's really worth keeping in mind that all politics since Rome have been to some extent influenced by it, including how power was seized from quasi-democratic institutions, so it's also pretty reasonable to say that Hitler was acting out a replay of Caesar's rise to empire in a way.
And of course, Lucas borrowed liberally from basically everything, so there's basically a bit of every fall of democratic principles in there. But I still think the Third Reich was in his mind more than the original.
Everything Cheebo said, I agree with. Say what you will about the execution of the prequels and how there "weren't Star Wars," but at least their spirit was about expanding the narrative language of the series, and not simply about "the old stuff but with a twist."
This latest rumor is the sort of thing I imagined when I heard Abrams was getting involved, especially in a writing capacity: that it was going to be a homage-heavy film that mimics established OT iconography without really understanding it. I thought maybe Kasdan could rein in Abrams' nostalgic tendencies, though.
Of course, I remain open-minded. Heck, I'm not sure I completely buy all of this rumor, to be honest, but it does sort of fit with muzzlewump's rumors from a year ago, which seem to be gaining credibility with each passing month.
This latest rumor is the sort of thing I imagined when I heard Abrams was getting involved, especially in a writing capacity: that it was going to be a homage-heavy film that mimics established OT iconography without really understanding it. I thought maybe Kasdan could rein in Abrams' nostalgic tendencies, though.
Of course, I remain open-minded. Heck, I'm not sure I completely buy all of this rumor, to be honest, but it does sort of fit with muzzlewump's rumors from a year ago, which seem to be gaining credibility with each passing month.
freethought
Member
The Reichstag fire? What exactly is the Star Wars Reichstag fire? Who are the communists? And most importantly, if the whole thing is modeled on Hitler, who are the Jews? I'm not denying the Hitler parallels aren't there, they are in some very shallow way, just as the Caesar analogy is extremely shallow. That's all I was trying to say.
But as far as the nature of the democracy we see in Star Wars, we never hear of an election. We never see a voter. Palpatine is elected by the Senate and it's exclusively members of the Senate (and Jedi) who try to remove him from power. You think that sounds more like the Weimar Republic than it does Ancient Rome? I don't think it's much like either really, but I'd lean toward the latter.
edit: The ultimate fall of democracy in Episode III does certainly bear more resemblance to Hitler than Caesar, but I'm pretty sure that part was just a thinly veiled Bush criticism. Though again, Caesar just slowly assumed more and more powers once he'd chased Pompey out of Rome.
bonesmccoy
Banned
I would love for that DS rumour to be true. I'm a sucker for that stuff. Give me a simple, balanced homage to the OT in 7, then Johnson et al can cut loose with 8 & 9.
I just read the muzzlewump rumours too - it's fantastic. Exactly how I hoped it would go (except for the 'rough' dialogue).
I just read the muzzlewump rumours too - it's fantastic. Exactly how I hoped it would go (except for the 'rough' dialogue).
I'm pretty sure Lucas referred to Caesar and Richard Nixon as the inspiration behind Palpatine's political plot more than anything.
Obviously the portrayal of the Empire itself and Palpatine's actions as emperor were rooted in Nazism and Hitler.
And him seducing Anakin was supposed to be like Iago tempting Othello or the Devil making a deal with Faust.
Obviously the portrayal of the Empire itself and Palpatine's actions as emperor were rooted in Nazism and Hitler.
And him seducing Anakin was supposed to be like Iago tempting Othello or the Devil making a deal with Faust.
I don't know, I think there were plenty of bad ideas at the base level of the story. Trade negotiations and disputes getting notable screen time, an older Padme meeting Anakin when he was a boy, contriving C3PO and R2 in, killing Maul in episode 1, completely glossing over the actual training of Anakin, the overall treatment of the Jedi order, Padme dying in child birth, General Grievous existing, Order 66 essentially being a nonsense McGuffin, etc.
freethought
Member
Nixon huh? I always went Bush but I guess a lot of Baby Boomers spent most of Bush's Presidency reliving Watergate and waxing lyrical on their past as Vietnam protesters.
Heck, you can read the original Star Wars as Lucas' story book retelling of the domestic protests to the war. It wasn't the Vietnam film Coppola wanted him to make but he made it nevertheless.
I see the Reichstag fire as the Jedi's attempt to arrest him, which does go back to the idea that Lucas was working from interesting if not good ideas and then botching the execution. I think it was his intent that Palpatine was working towards such a thing happening, which he would then take advantage of (honestly, the parent trap game he was playing only had so much line to play out before someone figured it out).
Honestly I always kind of imagined Palpatine just being really frustrated that they were taking so long to challenge him. It amuses me.
Until Ep3 came out I expected him to claim the Jedi raised the clone army as a means to usurp his (and the senate's) power and that would be the excuse for turning on the Jedi, along with establishing a frightfully powerful false enemy to fight against. He botched that too, though.
Oh, and re. democracy, I'm pretty sure it's explicitly stated that Amidala was elected (some statement about her being the youngest elected queen in ep1). I suppose this could be 'elected' in the sense of the old processes of legitimizing kings by an election of the former king's council or a council of titled noblemen, but I don't think that's what they were going for. I assume the senate is like the original US senate, elected by elected officials of the planet in question (with some leeway for other systems to co-exist). Not like Weimar perhaps, but still I think less different from Rome's.
He notes the cast is happy but some of the people he is talking to isn't. And I highly doubt his sources are cast members, most likely pre-production/post-production types. Especially since Ward himself lives in San Francisco right by ILM and Lucasfilm itself which lends to his ability to get leaks all the time.
And this is from Jason Ward of Making Star Wars, he doesn't make stuff up. He is easily the most reliable person in the Star Wars spoiler scene.
Lucas did say George W. Bush and the Iraq War had a big influence on Revenge of the Sith due how angry he was at Bush at the time of writing the screenplay in late 2003. He has also directly referenced Nixon as well.
freethought
Member
I'm a little bit confused why you emphasised the false flag theory then to be honest. I thought you were talking about the blockade of Naboo or the Clone Wars.
I like it though, I actually like it a lot. I particularly like the Jedi being the communists in your reading, not because they really work as an analogy for communists but it makes me smile for some reason.
Though to be fair, the Jedi were plotting against the democratically elected ruler of the galaxy. Plus, if you take your analogy to it's logical conclusion, eventually you end up with Order 66 being the Star Wars version of the Final Solution. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the difference between Lucas and Spielberg as filmmakers, I don't know what does.
I remember the Bush stuff was widely reported. I'd never heard about the Nixon stuff. I only know the cliff notes of Nixon's presidency but I assume the Nixon stuff is more in terms of characterisation? McDiarmid definitely has that Nixon slime going on the whole time. None of the folksy charm of modern presidents or charisma of a dictator.
Oh ok, I just went and read it again. Don't know why I thought it said the cast was unhappy.
And yeah, I trust Ward enough, especially with his track record, I just wasn't sure how reliable this source in particular is. Hopefully the source is off the mark due to it being mostly second hand info, because I'm not sure how much I like the sound of some of this.
I imagine his sources have got to be first hand seeing how he lives right outside of Lucasfilm and has been shown stills of the movie of characters like Leia and Han. I can't see how he would ever be able to get such material second hand.
What I find bizarre is that Lucasfilm still invites him up to the various press events and the like when they do stuff up at Lucasfilm. I assume they would have banned him or something but they seem to pretend like his site is just an everyday normal Star Wars fansite lol.
Yeah, JJ don't just make the same film but worst again.
I can imagine they are wise to it's weakness to blow up now so only a sacrifice inside the Death Star to destroy it will work, roll up Han Solo. His daughter sees him through the blast doors like Luke did with Obi Wan before Vader kills him but this time it's just Han protecting the McGuffin that defeats the Death Star which costs him his life and sets the seed of hatred in his daughter.