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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
I was referencing this line of the article:
It sounds like the source got these pieces of information through someone in another department or something, unless I'm misunderstanding it.
And that is really weird.
I actually realized while I was writing it that the false flag aspect wasn't terribly necessary to my argument, but I still think Palpatine was inciting them to act against him if nothing else. A possible scenario for the Reichstag fire could be the Nazis inciting communists to burn it down somehow (similar to modern anti-protest police actions that verge on police inciting people to riot so they can arrest them).
And I guess this is where the Bush part really comes in, in that they were plotting against him for plunging the Republic into a 'false' war (not the same way Iraq was a false war, but...). Hell, would you be surprised if Lucas was actually a truther even?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
The fact that they brought back a Death Star a second time was indulgent... Having a third one would only balance it by making it a core element of the whole series. 
Putting aside the question of whether or not there will/should be a Death Star in the new movies.... I do think it would be cool if they gave some new context for why Palpatine wanted a Death Star in the first place. Sure, as Tarkin says, it keeps the systems in line and allowed them to destroy the last vestige of democracy, the Senate ... But maybe there was some larger Sith intention?... Steering the Galaxy in a direction that would benefit Palpatine beyond just ruling as uncontested leader? It would put the OT in a new light.
Putting aside the question of whether or not there will/should be a Death Star in the new movies.... I do think it would be cool if they gave some new context for why Palpatine wanted a Death Star in the first place. Sure, as Tarkin says, it keeps the systems in line and allowed them to destroy the last vestige of democracy, the Senate ... But maybe there was some larger Sith intention?... Steering the Galaxy in a direction that would benefit Palpatine beyond just ruling as uncontested leader? It would put the OT in a new light.
Buddha Beam
Banned
That Death Star one... 'eh... it sounds about right when you consider Star Trek 09, Into Darkness and Super 8. Plus the rumors of the early script revisions to give the original cast some screentime and prominence. I can see it being true.
I hope it's not, though.
I hope it's not, though.
freethought
Member
It's not that mate, I had just been discussing the Clone Wars in my previous post so I thought that's what you were comparing the Riechstag to, which I think you'll agree is a bit of a stretch so I just ended up just really confused by your analogy.
You can blame some of it on my not being particularly au fait with the prequels. I'd honestly forgotten about him marching straight from the assassination to basically his coronation. Plus, I can see where you were coming from, the 'assassination' was an arrest and he incited it anyway, not a million miles away from a straight up false flag.
But Lucas a truther? He's probably too busy trying to take credit for it himself.
Vader is black after all. Or is he?
I think he's going to buy it, as well. It's been common knowledge Ford wanted that to happen in Return, but Lucas put the kibosh on that. I can see Ford flat out saying he wants it to happen, and JJ nodding quickly so he'd sign on the dotted line.
As for the prequels, I thought the best thing about them were the spin off novels. The ideas of the prequels were handled so much better there, undeniably because Lucas wasn't writing them.
Nah not a truther, he was in the camp it was a false war for oil sort of thing. Not Afghanistan, Iraq was his sort of point of contention when it came to writing Revenge of the Sith. Lucas is just an old school liberal.
FYI Lucas's wife is good friends with Michelle Obama oddly enough.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
I don't mind episode 7 being a nostalgia romp, then send off the old cast, set the new ones for the next 2 eps and keep luke around as obi wan, seems perfect to me!
freethought
Member
I just hope Matt Walsh is in it.
Spaced!
edit: They seriously need to let Edgar Wright make one of these Star Wars.
Spaced!
edit: They seriously need to let Edgar Wright make one of these Star Wars.
brandonh83
Banned
Man if people are just going to complain about this having "nostalgia elements" then I am so fucking done. It should have them. It has every right to, you know, being a sequel and all. It's Episode VII. It's part of the same continuity. It should have those returning characters and elements. We obviously have a new set of characters and story going on here as well, but there's unfinished business and I honestly thought that Episode VI was a pretty lackluster finale to that saga so I'm thrilled that it wasn't the end.
I get that people are worried about repeating details or whatever, but as a continuation, I totally expect people and places to come back. There should be a lot of new stuff too, but even that short trailer had new stuff. For people bringing up that Abrams is directing it and supposedly all he does is rip off of everything, I personally did not think that Into Darkness was some kind of ripoff of Wrath of Khan. I've seen both a share of times and while they both have Khan as a villain, he was represented completely different and had a totally different story going on. There are other scenes that mirror stuff from Wrath, but I don't see why it matters as they still looked and felt completely different. Beyond some nods and mirroring elements, those two movies could not feel any less alike.
Obviously... have your opinions and all, but to me it honestly looks like people just want to dislike something or find problems sometimes, like you're up in a fucking watchtower with some high-end binoculars surveying the lands for anything and everything to whine about. I hate to be dramatic, but fuuuuuuuuck. What should matter is how well its done, the entertainment value, what it adds to the overall story, etc. People seemed to mainly dislike the prequels because of the writing and acting, but it looks like that even when those things are fine it's time to move onto the next "problem." That's why I've always said that even if the prequels were written and performed better that people would have still hated them.
I get that people are worried about repeating details or whatever, but as a continuation, I totally expect people and places to come back. There should be a lot of new stuff too, but even that short trailer had new stuff. For people bringing up that Abrams is directing it and supposedly all he does is rip off of everything, I personally did not think that Into Darkness was some kind of ripoff of Wrath of Khan. I've seen both a share of times and while they both have Khan as a villain, he was represented completely different and had a totally different story going on. There are other scenes that mirror stuff from Wrath, but I don't see why it matters as they still looked and felt completely different. Beyond some nods and mirroring elements, those two movies could not feel any less alike.
Obviously... have your opinions and all, but to me it honestly looks like people just want to dislike something or find problems sometimes, like you're up in a fucking watchtower with some high-end binoculars surveying the lands for anything and everything to whine about. I hate to be dramatic, but fuuuuuuuuck. What should matter is how well its done, the entertainment value, what it adds to the overall story, etc. People seemed to mainly dislike the prequels because of the writing and acting, but it looks like that even when those things are fine it's time to move onto the next "problem." That's why I've always said that even if the prequels were written and performed better that people would have still hated them.
We may not agree on the EU at all but when it comes the now I guess you can call them "original 6" from what I have seen of you say as well I am pretty much in agreement with you.
Honest question, why the dislike for the EU?
What's the story behind this?
Lucas compared Palpatine to Nixon in a story conference with Kasdan while working on RotJ in 1981:
I also recall him saying that the rise of the Empire is supposed to reflect democracies turning into dictatorships in general but Rome and Nazi Germany in particular.
Anyway, this rumor is really disappointing but it's the sort of thing I would expect of JJ. I love that the prequels have such a distinct and original storyline and that they didn't end up just being what everyone would have expected. I still hope that the new canon implements some old CIS elements into the formation of the Rebel Alliance, but I digress. Hopefully Rian Johnston has some more original ideas in his mind if they did indeed throw up whatever Lucas' original pitch was (although it will be funny if DSIII turns out to have been a Lucas idea).
I can't speak for anyone else but I think the EU constantly and consistently missed the message of Star Wars and just dumbed it down into wacky and (later on) depressing space adventures with no importance. Whereas we can argue over the execution of the PT, most will at least agree that it had substantial themes and interesting concepts - I think anyone who doubts that Lucas put real thought into the PT should read up on the ring theory. The EU was usually just stupid, whether it was reviving Palpatine, introducing Force-cancelling lizards, Trioculus and Triclops, the Yuuzhan Vong, Waru, Abeloth and the complete misunderstanding of the Mortis trilogy, the subversion and slaughter of younger characters to protect the old guard due to their plot armor, the never-ending supply of ever-larger superweapons, etc. The pre-OT EU is much better even if it doesn't entirely match up with G-Canon since it had concepts in it (like Sith spirits such as Ragnos or Sadow) that the writers couldn't possibly have known George would later decide went against canon. The old EU just generally felt like bad fanfiction a lot of the time. Sometimes it had some good concepts like Thrawn, and I hope some of that stuff carries over, but most of it was just a waste of time.
I also recall him saying that the rise of the Empire is supposed to reflect democracies turning into dictatorships in general but Rome and Nazi Germany in particular.
Anyway, this rumor is really disappointing but it's the sort of thing I would expect of JJ. I love that the prequels have such a distinct and original storyline and that they didn't end up just being what everyone would have expected. I still hope that the new canon implements some old CIS elements into the formation of the Rebel Alliance, but I digress. Hopefully Rian Johnston has some more original ideas in his mind if they did indeed throw up whatever Lucas' original pitch was (although it will be funny if DSIII turns out to have been a Lucas idea).
I can't speak for anyone else but I think the EU constantly and consistently missed the message of Star Wars and just dumbed it down into wacky and (later on) depressing space adventures with no importance. Whereas we can argue over the execution of the PT, most will at least agree that it had substantial themes and interesting concepts - I think anyone who doubts that Lucas put real thought into the PT should read up on the ring theory. The EU was usually just stupid, whether it was reviving Palpatine, introducing Force-cancelling lizards, Trioculus and Triclops, the Yuuzhan Vong, Waru, Abeloth and the complete misunderstanding of the Mortis trilogy, the subversion and slaughter of younger characters to protect the old guard due to their plot armor, the never-ending supply of ever-larger superweapons, etc. The pre-OT EU is much better even if it doesn't entirely match up with G-Canon since it had concepts in it (like Sith spirits such as Ragnos or Sadow) that the writers couldn't possibly have known George would later decide went against canon. The old EU just generally felt like bad fanfiction a lot of the time. Sometimes it had some good concepts like Thrawn, and I hope some of that stuff carries over, but most of it was just a waste of time.
I agree with you on everything in here, but I actually think the Yuuzhan Vong are a prequel-ish "good idea wrapped in a bad execution" kind of thing. The idea of force-void aliens posing a real threat to powerful Jedi is actually pretty interesting.
freethought
Member
Was there a reason blasters didn't work?
Also Yuuzhan Vong is one of those names you could never actually use in anything with audible dialogue. A screenwriter would have just gone with the Vong.
I tried a couple of Star Wars books in my day, the characters had as much a problem getting over the movies as the authors. I tried that Thrawn book and by the fiftieth time Luke had been reminded of some OT thing or other I was done. It was page 12.
Now the games, they rock. Were they part of the EU? Wait, is Dark Forces no longer canon?
But that image is?
In all seriousness though, Dark Forces was my fucking jam. Loved that game. Jedi Knight too.
CreepingFear
Member
I don't have a problem with another Death Star if it's in the context of Leia contemplating using it to blow up something much worse, and the conflict she has, seeing as her own planet was blown up with one. Maybe it's in the context of her having to blow up the planet that Luke's on because he might have become too dangerous if the Sith turned him? But if the end of the film is people trying to blow up the DS, then I have a problem.
well, therein lies the problem, right? Nostalgia is fine, but if the movie is basically trying to act as some kind of mirror counterpoint to A New Hope (or the OT in general), then it's not so much adding anything new to the overall story as it is winking and nudging at what's already there.
To my mind, this Death Star thing sounds like the first major example of that happening, and tbh I'm not overly concerned anyway. Plus, I actually liked Star Trek Into Darkness quite a bit and thought the Wrath of Khan homages were more cute than derivative. But if you have people worried about JJ retreading old ground and then a spoiler comes out about a third Death Star, with an inverse version of the Alderaan destruction scene from IV... you can see why, for them, there might be cause for concern.
You summed it up perfectly. I think the majority of the EU missed the message core of Star Wars. Most of it felt like typical sci-fi lit. Star Wars is not sci-fi at all to me. When it gets crazy with technobabble which a lot of the EU has (even Zahn) it is just over for me.
Also Star Wars to me is a mythical fantasy heroes journey. When you get away from that...it just isn't Star Wars to me anymore. It needs that heavy dose of Joseph Campbell with a pinch of Arthurian legend.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
It would make more sense if after ROTJ, the Rebels found another Death Star but this one they managed to salvage or whoever ran it turned sides. So they kept it, maybe even in secret, and eventually when whatever happens they tell Leia about it. What sucks is it sounds so much like the Clones thing.
That sounds a lot like what JJ would do, where they basically "reactivate" a Death Star in the movie itself with Leia's approval, and they seek to use it against whoever the bad guys are. But I would also think whoever the good guys are would step in to stop this or something. Heck, wouldn't surprise me if a third enemy would come along precisely so that they don't have to use it against the empire, and the rebels and the empire fight the new enemy together instead. I can't imagine JJ thinking "yeah let's kill thousands of people again lol good guys". He would probably make it sound like it's wrong and that in the end the rebels VS the empire thing is a gray area, no clear good VS bad side like Lucas did. You need a third force in that case to make that point so the two others can unite. Heck that alone is probably a good justification to drive the whole new trilogy: the old battle isn't over because it's not just about good guys VS bad guys, it's about conflict and not falling to the dark side. That puts everyone in a situation where nobody is cookie-cutter good or bad anymore, and opens the door to more interesting characters on the heroes' side. It's no longer just a jedi thing to be good or evil, it's everyone' business, the Jedis are just much bigger channels for this.
That sounds a lot like what JJ would do, where they basically "reactivate" a Death Star in the movie itself with Leia's approval, and they seek to use it against whoever the bad guys are. But I would also think whoever the good guys are would step in to stop this or something. Heck, wouldn't surprise me if a third enemy would come along precisely so that they don't have to use it against the empire, and the rebels and the empire fight the new enemy together instead. I can't imagine JJ thinking "yeah let's kill thousands of people again lol good guys". He would probably make it sound like it's wrong and that in the end the rebels VS the empire thing is a gray area, no clear good VS bad side like Lucas did. You need a third force in that case to make that point so the two others can unite. Heck that alone is probably a good justification to drive the whole new trilogy: the old battle isn't over because it's not just about good guys VS bad guys, it's about conflict and not falling to the dark side. That puts everyone in a situation where nobody is cookie-cutter good or bad anymore, and opens the door to more interesting characters on the heroes' side. It's no longer just a jedi thing to be good or evil, it's everyone' business, the Jedis are just much bigger channels for this.
I'm expecting something like the opening of Star Trek. Han, on the radio with Leia, has to crash the falcon into something in order to save the day. They exchange an 'I love you/I know" but with the roles reversed and boom goes the dynamite.
I think something like this will happen later in the movie, but minus the Falcon part. I think
hope
Oh man, this is totally how it would go down. Do you have the script or something?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
If Han has a son and the son is that sith-sworded kid, I'd think Han would be killed by his son. Cause it rhymes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I really like that gif.
Anton Sugar
Member
Who is that guy? He makes this face like five times during the "Making of Phantom Menace" vid.
Cross-Section
Member
Close.
Luke, who is about to deliver the killing blow upon Kylo Ren. At least, that's what multiple (some of them later dis-proven) rumor leaks have gone on record as saying.
I have no idea, but I can't believe no one has made this gif before now. He looks so uncomfortable everytime Lucas is doing or saying something crazy, and I love it. It's perfect.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Yeah but I doubt it. I stick to my view that Luke is never going to be tarnished, let alone by having him kill someone like Han, even if by accident. He has to leave the story "pure".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I believe he's Jeff Olson, one of the VFX producers.
Nah. They're gonna tarnish his ass. He'll re-enter the story pure, and maybe he'll do something to re-purify himself by the end of it, but somewhere in the middle there, he's going to fuck something up.
What is the "message of Star Wars?" More often than not the Expanded Universe took established characters in new directions as opposed to just offering a different flavor of what's come before. More often than not the best sequels are those that deviate differently from their predecessors, choosing instead to take the characters to new places both internally and externally. Dark Empire gets a bad rap but it deals with temptation where ROTJ just skirted over it(Lucas always thought it was a perfect sequel too). The EU is often labeled as "crap" yet I would argue that there was more good EU than there ever was poor EU.
My least favorite EU was always the EU that filled in gaps, existing simply as fluff. I don't really need to know how Luke got his haircut, etc. It's stuff like Star Wars Legacy, Republic Commando, Jedi Knight, etc., that did the universe justice. I loved the stories that were largely their own and not dependent on a character featured on blankets and bed sheets. Star Wars isn't just Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader to me, its that universe. Hell, Tales of the Jedi is fucking great and it's so far removed from anything else.
I've just never understood the criticism, because to me, KotOR embodied "Star Wars" better than in thing in the 2000's. Star Wars is high adventure, mixed with camaraderie and space magic, KotOR had all of that. KotOR 2 was a different beast entirely and it was amazing for it; to this day I honestly think The Sith Lords is best sequel Star Wars has had since 1981.
Early Marvel EU was all kinds of wacky so I've never been interested in any comic before Dark Horse.
I grow increasingly frustrated with the direction of the support material from here on out. Not too much could have happened between the events of ANH and TESB given that the films still happen as they were. Luke is not going to slay Vader in these new Marvel comics, the events themselves, as long as they are tied to these safe characters during these safe time periods, will never be interesting to me.
Furthermore, it had its flaws, but at least stories like Legacy of the Force was a fresh idea. It just seems like this movie is playing it too safe.
Compassion.
I don't need a Luke Skywalker who says "Compassion is for those who deserve it."
I would like the idea of a cold war between the Empire and the Alliance for the last 30 years.
Things heating up in VII, in the end, the "good" Deathstar comes to its first use and the war gets warm.
VIII is then about the full fledged new galactic civil war and all comes to its conslusion in IX.
Things heating up in VII, in the end, the "good" Deathstar comes to its first use and the war gets warm.
VIII is then about the full fledged new galactic civil war and all comes to its conslusion in IX.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
Are you suggesting a "Fuzz-Star" manned entirely by Ewoks?
freethought
Member
Did this really happen?
What about TOR's status? Is everyone complaining about how everything they're doing is no longer canon?
I am still confused why so many people just lately here are made aware of that fantastic Phantom Menace doc. It was on the DVD back in 2001! The docs the prequel DVDs were pretty great and oddly enough never really tried to act like fluff pieces. The Attack of the Clones one is well worth watching "From Puppets to Pixels". Literally in the doc itself that was included on the DVD there are people in it criticizing Lucas for going digital for the film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-5UhwcBW0
It's funny watching these seeing people in them still there working on The Force Awakens (Doug Chiang, Pablo Helmann, John Knoll, etc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-5UhwcBW0
It's funny watching these seeing people in them still there working on The Force Awakens (Doug Chiang, Pablo Helmann, John Knoll, etc)
I watched this stuff since I got the DVDs. Had no idea how to feel about them back then.
freethought
Member
The only star wars I own are VHS. They do have Leonard Maltin interviewing Lucas but he's just propagating bullshit like the whole "The first movie was just the first act of my initial script" and they're at the start of the tape so you always have to fast forward past them.
brandonh83
Banned
Even if there's another Death Star I don't see how that means that the new episode won't add much to the overall story. That's one element. And is it literally another Death Star or just a new battle station? Are we just hating on the movie over a rumor or is it confirmed? If it's another Death Star I'm not head over heels about the idea, but it's hardly going to mean that there isn't going to be a good story. Story is defined by characters and events, not by whether or not this SW movie has a big ass battle station. I wasn't fond of Death Star 2 in VI, but it still had a good story and the throne room was boss.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
Exactly. I still want to see that movie...
Clones = Stormtroopers is like Finkle = Einhorn...
You wanted the prequels to be just like the original trilogy? The idea behind the Clone Wars is 1000x better than just yet another OT type of war.
freethought
Member
I don't remember there being any consensus about what the Clone Wars were. I always figured the Clones were the bad guys and I never really figured they played that directly into how the Empire was formed. More a series of conflicts raging across the galaxy, the clones were more like raiders attacking vulnerable worlds like Alderaan. Obi Wan ends up defending it, something like that. Then Episode I could just be Seven Samurai. Obi Wan is Kambei, Anakin's the kid. I dunno how you do a fake Jedi, but think of the fun you could have with a Jedi Kyuzo.
I had forgotten all about this guy!
It's amazing watching him as he looks around him thinking "Am I really the only one seeing what a disaster this is?"
The Young Leia rumors continue...
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/0...n-oscar-wilde-award-hosted-by-j-j-abrams.html
Guys, why does Carrie look like she is constantly pursing her lips? Like, it never stops. Is that just how her face is now?
And I'm unsettled by all the rumors that Ep 7 is just an EP IV rehash in more ways then we'd previously anticipated. I really want episode VII to feel like it's setting the franchise off in a direction to last us another 30 years, introducing a lot of fresh material and threads to follow up on. I don't want to see rhyme after rhyme after rhyme. I hope Disney is smart enough to look at how the prequels had to compromise so much just to adhere to all the rhyming that it was probably to their (further) detriment. Let's not have a repeat of that.
I feel like that's something between the OT and the prequel trilogy, and we don't need to repeat the same rhymes in the next trilogy. Star Wars has to escape this or it's never going to escape the shadow of those old films.
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/0...n-oscar-wilde-award-hosted-by-j-j-abrams.html
Guys, why does Carrie look like she is constantly pursing her lips? Like, it never stops. Is that just how her face is now?
And I'm unsettled by all the rumors that Ep 7 is just an EP IV rehash in more ways then we'd previously anticipated. I really want episode VII to feel like it's setting the franchise off in a direction to last us another 30 years, introducing a lot of fresh material and threads to follow up on. I don't want to see rhyme after rhyme after rhyme. I hope Disney is smart enough to look at how the prequels had to compromise so much just to adhere to all the rhyming that it was probably to their (further) detriment. Let's not have a repeat of that.
I feel like that's something between the OT and the prequel trilogy, and we don't need to repeat the same rhymes in the next trilogy. Star Wars has to escape this or it's never going to escape the shadow of those old films.
I recommend you the Dark Empire Trilogy, its a great comicbook.
Also, people will recommend you the Thrawn Trilogy.
The clone wars actually has a seven samurai episode dedicated to kurosawa