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[freethought]

Man, whoever at Fox was responsible for greenlighting Alien in an attempt to cash in on Star Wars was a fucking idiot.

I'm not saying it didn't work out well for everybody. But really, it's set in space. That's it. It'd be like greenlighting the 2001 script, which they absolutely would have done.

Christ, they did. Somebody gave Gene Roddenberry millions to do his 2001 remake featuring Captain Kirk and it was fucking terrible. They never let him near a movie again, but after Star Wars just get anything with a spaceship on the screen and I mean anything. Someone even gave Glen Larson money to make a mormon version of Star Wars.

But was it all worth it? I really don't know. I spent my childhood watching extended toy commercials thanks to George Lucas. George Lucas didn't retroactively rape my childhood, he poisoned it before I was ever born. It's a strange dichotomy. All of this was only possible because he made that one film and that's not why he made it. X Wings weren't designed to be toys, they were WWII fighter planes in space. Lightsabers weren't there to shift merchandise, they were futuristic katanas in his Sci-Fi Samurai film.

But the fucker leaned into it, no-one can deny that. Star Wars wasn't a film franchise for 15 years, it was just a merchandising empire.

 

[Cheebo]

Man, whoever at Fox was responsible for greenlighting Alien in an attempt to cash in on Star Wars was a fucking idiot.

To be fair we have context looking back over 30 years to see better why Star Wars was so huge. Back then the studios were caught completely off-guard, including Fox of course who released it themselves (they pretty much expected Planet of the Apes type numbers, at best). They had no idea why it blew up the way it did it was so unexpected. It makes sense one of the first reactions from the various studios was to greenlight ANYTHING sci-fi.

But it worked out for the best. Star Trek would have remained dead, Battlestar Galactica never would have happened, Alien would have never happened, and all these various things were the dominoes that lead to later sci-fi films like The Terminator and Jurassic Park which would never have happened without the sort of post-Star Wars chain reaction.

Star Wars basically pulled sci-fi out of the low-budget cult sort of area it was regulated to prior. Star Wars resulted in sci-fi films getting actual studio backing and real budgets which I am sure we can all be thankful for.

Ironic though, since Star Wars has a lot more in common with fantasy than it does sci-fi.


Also I think you aren't looking at the big picture when it comes to Star Trek. Yes, The Motion Picture was the result of Star Wars. But we would never have gotten The Wrath of Khan without the Motion Picture and thus Star Wars. And without this Trek film revival we would have never got The Next Generation. All of this is thanks to Star Wars, Star Trek would have remained dead for god knows how long without Star Wars. Probably until someone with 60's nostalgia decided to reboot it. Which would not resemble at all what it grew into over the 80's and 90's.

 

[Woorloog]

He looks feral, yeah. I think the idea is to contrast him with Vader who in Empire and Jedi at least is very cold and calculating with little to no extraneous movements. Compare the way Ren puts his whole body into activating his saber to Vader standing seemingly immovable and absolutely still in Empire as he activates his.

It makes the decision to mask him seem strange, though I'll wager we're going to see plenty of this guy's face.

Perhaps the mask is in the concept arts and such because they had no face for the character? Kind of placeholdery-thing, like Vader in that one painting representing Kylo Ren?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

That mask looks a bit plain and I much prefer the creepy cyborg's half-man half-destroyed face. Here's hoping the cyborg is a major antagonist (if not Ren himself).

 

[brandonh83]

More rumors about the characters and plot.

Basically, Luke's gone a little crazy protecting a Sith shrine from being opened by Kylo Ren (the Sith guy), who is looking for the key to the shrine, which is embedded in a lightsaber held by Rey.

Rey went into hiding to protect the key; she is Han and Lea's daughter.

Finn defects from the Empire and teams up with Poe - a rebel - while they are in the brig.

Also, there are people in the Republic who are kind of shady, making superweapons now, which prompted Dominic Gleeson's character to switch from the rebels to the Empire (because they are so trustworthy).

Oooooo that sounds really fucking good to me. Finally getting into that kind of stuff should be great.

 

[phazedplasma]

everytime i go in this thread i just get more hyped.

the wait is too long.

 

[Pagusas]

Oooooo that sounds really fucking good to me. Finally getting into that kind of stuff should be great.

Yeah it does, I see no re-tread over A New Hope like everyone was worrying about.

 

[bill0527]

I think it all sounds good...but I'm kind of bothered by Luke's role.

He's guarding something...don't know what it is or how to open it, but its evil and he needs to guard it and will spend the rest of his life doing it if need be.

I expected the hero of the rebellion, the Jedi that took down 2 sith Lords without having to personally kill either of them, one of the greatest Jedi Knights ever..is now relegated to guard duty over some unknown evil object in a tomb.

Maybe this is what Jedi are supposed to do in their retirement? Maybe that's what Yoda was doing on Dagobah. Guarding some ancient evil from being unleashed in that dark side cave.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I thought Luke would be like Paul Atreides in Children of Dune, in Episode 7.

 

[graffix13]

everytime i go in this thread i just get more hyped.

the wait is too long.

Me too! I'm just glad we are getting new info, regardless if it's fact or not it gets me thinking.

 

[freethought]

Ironic though, since Star Wars has a lot more in common with fantasy than it does sci-fi.

Eh, it's definitely got roots in the old space operas, but the visuals people were responding to were very sci-fi. The ships and technology in Star Wars have a pretty hard sci-fi aesthetic to them. It's just Lucas had very little interest in telling a sci-fi story as you say.

Honestly, no-one really has ever tried to replicate that side of Star Wars. That original film basically wrote the book on the visual language of space battles and the like but few people have tried to make an old pulpy space opera again. AotC was explicitly that and it was awful, easily the worst of the prequels going by consensus and though John Carter seems to have it's fans the film was a massive flop.

Also I think you aren't looking at the big picture when it comes to Star Trek. Yes, The Motion Picture was the result of Star Wars. But we would never have gotten The Wrath of Khan without the Motion Picture and thus Star Wars. And without this Trek film revival we would have never got The Next Generation. All of this is thanks to Star Wars, Star Trek would have remained dead for god knows how long without Star Wars. Probably until someone with 60's nostalgia decided to reboot it. Which would not resemble at all what it grew into over the 80's and 90's.

I don't know, Wrath of Khan likely only got made because Star Wars was so huge and the show was doing so well in syndication (again, Star Wars). Without that kind of favourable environment The Motion Picture could have killed Star Trek dead.

I'm glad it didn't too, I love TNG and I enjoy a few of the films, but TMP is terrible.

 

[Cheebo]

I don't know, Wrath of Khan likely only got made because Star Wars was so huge and the show was doing so well in syndication (again, Star Wars). Without that kind of favourable environment The Motion Picture could have killed Star Trek dead.

I'm glad it didn't too, I love TNG and I enjoy a few of the films, but TMP is terrible.

Oh yeah I agree completely, I was just pointing out that the entire run of Star Trek that started up with TMP in 1979 through the next few decades were due to Star Wars kickstarting things.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Without that kind of favourable environment The Motion Picture could have killed Star Trek dead.

Nah. The Motion Picture actually made money. Not as much as they were hoping - but it made money. They were always going to make a sequel. They just needed to make it way cheaper. Which is what they tasked Harve Bennett with doing.

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah it does, I see no re-tread over A New Hope like everyone was worrying about.

But it might have a Death Star or X-Wings and stuff so obviously it's going to be a carbon copy.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Abrams' Star Trek was successful because it looked like Star Trek (and sounded like Star Trek) but was way more FUN than Star Trek had been in forever.

Hopefully that's what's going on here.

 

[Cheebo]

Oh Abrams is going to get the fun pulpy part down, I doubt anyone doubts that. It is interesting though because Abrams clearly is far more inspired by Spielberg in style than he is Lucas.

 

[brandonh83]

Abrams' Star Trek was successful because it looked like Star Trek (and sounded like Star Trek) but was way more FUN than Star Trek had been in forever.

That's why I actually liked the new ones, but I get why some don't. I can already feel more energy in this based on the trailer shots but I expected Abrams to take the "old" and re-energize it for modern times. Which is fine. Plus the story is sounding more and more like it's finally getting into Sith and Jedi mythology which is something that greatly excites me more than anything. Those tidbits make it sound even more fantasy-based if it's dealing with ancient Sith elements, keys to unlocking devastating powers, etc.

 

[Liquidsnake]

I wish into Darkness followed Wrath a little more. I really enjoyed the space duel in ST II.

Also They misused Cumberbatch.

 

[Pagusas]

The only thing I worry about with Abrams is his inability to stay consistent with in an established world. You see so many inconsistencies in all his works, be it plot flaws, filming something without regard to its actual size or being completely inconsistent with the ideas of time and distance. These are heavily apparent in Star Trek, but I think will probably be ok in Star Wars.

Other than that I just worry about him not knowing how to "breath', by that I mean he get rolling on the plot and there are rarely any down or calm moments. Some of the best Star Wars moments are the slower ones, where the plot slows down and we get a chance to see the characters be themselves. Abrams has had issue with letting characters just live for a while without a constant push on them. Great for fun, fast paced blockbusters, bad for long running peices of fiction/characters that need time to cook and get emotionally attached to.

 

[JaxSteel]

Interesting. Isn't it rumored that Serkis plays a small but vital role in the movie? Maybe he's locked away in the Tomb.

I could see it being the tomb of someone like Darth Plagueis and I wouldn't mind Serkis playing him.

 

[Pagusas]

Interesting. Isn't it rumored that Serkis plays a small but vital role in the movie? Maybe he's locked away in the Tomb.

That or maybe one of the Sith ghost/spirits that are tormenting luke?

 

[freethought]

That or maybe one of the Sith ghost/spirits that are tormenting luke?

Andy Serkis: the Frank Oz of CG.

 

[Sapiens]

The idea of the blockbuster as franchises likey never would happen, at at least not in the way it turned out to be. Genre sequels prior to Star Wars tended be associated with being cheap cash-ins that often, if rarely ever have the original cast and or director/writer due to with the cheap lesser quality stigma that was associated with sequels.

Would be quite a different movie industry. Not to mention all the other impacts. We would never have gotten the Star Trek revival that lead to that franchise becoming what it was, would have just remained a semi-forgotten cult 60's tv series. We would have never gotten a lot of the sci-fi pictures greenlit in the wake of Star Wars like Alien. Harrison Ford's career would have never taken off. Lucas would likely never be able to get Paramount to greenlight Indiana Jones....list goes on and on.

I agree. ILM certainly put a lot of love into ST2 and 3. Really nice optical effects that have aged well.

 

[CD'S BAR]

That mask looks a bit plain and I much prefer the creepy cyborg's half-man half-destroyed face. Here's hoping the cyborg is a major antagonist (if not Ren himself).

I could see Ren revealing his cyborg face to us as he gazes at that Vader helmet like we've seen in the concept arts. He removes his own helmet as he holds Vader's. It would be like that one thing that rhymes...(but in this case pretty cool imo).

 

[Scooter155]

Will hype be bigger than Phantom Menace?

No.

EDIT : I mean, the worst Star Wars movie before Phantom Menace came out was Return of the Jedi, and that was still a pretty damn good movie. Now we've had the entire Prequel Trilogy, each one of which is worse than the Original Trilogy, and we've had the OT re-mastered and re-edited and re-released (in theaters and home video) so many times that people are much more burned out than they were in 1999.

 

[Tookay]

I think it all sounds good...but I'm kind of bothered by Luke's role.

He's guarding something...don't know what it is or how to open it, but its evil and he needs to guard it and will spend the rest of his life doing it if need be.

I expected the hero of the rebellion, the Jedi that took down 2 sith Lords without having to personally kill either of them, one of the greatest Jedi Knights ever..is now relegated to guard duty over some unknown evil object in a tomb.

Maybe this is what Jedi are supposed to do in their retirement? Maybe that's what Yoda was doing on Dagobah. Guarding some ancient evil from being unleashed in that dark side cave.

Yeah, personally, I'm not thrilled with most of the Luke rumors. I always felt like the post-ROTJ Luke in the EU was closest to how I imagined him turning out. But then I see how a seemingly perfect Luke with an established Jedi Order would make for a pretty boring movie, from a dramatic standpoint.

This rumor at least seems a little more in-keeping with who he is, than some of the other rumors. There's been a self-sacrificial element to Luke since the end of ESB and especially ROTJ, where he was willing to put himself at risk to help others, so this is seems in-line with it.

Interesting. Isn't it rumored that Serkis plays a small but vital role in the movie? Maybe he's locked away in the Tomb.

That or maybe one of the Sith ghost/spirits that are tormenting luke?

Under that scenario, I could see the dialogue in the trailer ("there's been an awakening"), which is confirmed to be Serkis, being part of a scene where his sith ghost character is taunting Luke or something.

 

[-griffy-]

Female stormtroopers are canon now. Is that new? Does that change any character rumors for episode VII? Gwendoline Christie as stormtrooper?

 

[Anton Sugar]

I hope DICE can handle all that extra animation work for Battlefront!

 

[Blader]

It sounds like they've been combing through the old star wars drafts (which I wouldn't doubt) if true. I recall the kaiburr/kiber/kyber crystals being a significant mcguffin in the original drafts, and something important somewhere was stored in the hilt of a lightsaber at one point. It seems like they are bringing back this McGuffin as according to this rumor the key is a crystal specifically:

"The old guy reveals to Rey that the crystal in the lightsaber they are holding has the ability to open the tomb Luke is guarding."

Actually, googling this stuff I've come across this little tidbit (google also shows I'm not the first, of course, but bringing it up again because I feel it is relevant) from the third draft of star wars:


I46. INT. ALDERAAN – CRYSTAL CHAMBER

Three SITH LORDS are on their knees praying before a shining crystal placed on a tall altar. They mumble a strange electronic chant.

1ST SITH
Darth, did you feel that?

Darth stands and stares at the crystal.

2ND SITH
Was it an omen? What is it?

VADER
Something old has been awakened. The Force has suddenly grown stronger. We must travel future paths with caution.




That "Did you feel that" and "something old has been awakened" sound really familiar...

Damn, nice find. Given how much they're digging into McQuarrie's original artwork it wouldn't surprise me if they were mining some of Lucas' old unused story ideas too.

 

[Cheebo]

Female stormtroopers are canon now. Is that new? Does that change any character rumors for episode VII? Gwendoline Christie as stormtrooper?

Not sure why he wrote that article for a book that came out over 5 months ago like it was news. Weird.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Can some one with a lot of "knowledge" PM me.

 

[Cheebo]

Can some one with a lot of "knowledge" PM me.

About what?

 

[-griffy-]

Not sure why he wrote that article for a book that came out over 5 months ago like it was news. Weird.

*She wrote that article.

And Hitfix has been pushing for more blog style postings/musings from their writers, so I presume it wasn't intended as being new info since it isn't really presented that way, the author is just reading the book now and came across it so wrote about it. I didn't realize the book had been out for that long when I posted it here though.

 

[Raptor]

Can some one with a lot of "knowledge" PM me.

I want it too, someone with knowledge please!!!

 

[Cheebo]

Mark Hamill wants us to calm down and stop hyping it too much since we'll end up disappointed because of it.

Believe me, it will be here before you know it. Forget about it, that’s my advice. Look forward to all the summer movies. I’m telling you, it’s just a movie. These people that build it up in their minds like it’s going to be the second coming of, I don’t know what — they’re bound to be disappointed.

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movi...lks-kingsman-cameo-star-wars-anticipation/#/0

 

[Woorloog]

Mark Hamill wants us to calm down and stop hyping it too much since we'll end up disappointed because of it.


http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movi...lks-kingsman-cameo-star-wars-anticipation/#/0

The film will be worse than prequels, confirmed.


Seriously, i get what he means. But marketing nowadays seems to be all about hype. At least for video games, and given how big profile thing Star Wars is, i reckon this will apply to it as well if not films in general.

 

[The Elite]

Mark Hamill wants us to calm down and stop hyping it too much since we'll end up disappointed because of it.


http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movi...lks-kingsman-cameo-star-wars-anticipation/#/0

The second coming of Empire.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The film will be worse than prequels, confirmed.


Seriously, i get what he means. But marketing nowadays seems to be all about hype. At least for video games, and given how big profile thing Star Wars is, i reckon this will apply to it as well if not films in general.

Marketing's never not been about hype. That's what marketing is. The difference is how thoroughly audiences have made getting hype as important, if not moreso, than the film itself.

 

[brandonh83]

Mark doesn't seem to get it. The whole point of Star Wars is to expect it to be the greatest thing ever made only to be later ripped apart by anal fans on the internet; sometimes resulting in video reviews longer than the movies themselves.

 

[Inferno313]

After marathoning through Girls last week (It's actually really good!) I'm so freaking excited about Adam Driver being in this. He's easily the best performer on that show and super likable. I'm hoping that Kylo Ren isn't some lackey like Darth Maul that will get offed by the end of this to make room for whichever Sith he's trying to revive, but is instead a constant presence like Darth Vadar that will be built up through the trilogy.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Mark doesn't seem to get it. The whole point of Star Wars is to expect it to be the greatest thing ever made only to be later ripped apart by anal fans on the internet; sometimes resulting in video reviews longer than the movies themselves.

@Mark Hamill: I'll be there day one in my Wookie costume.

Spoiler

I mean Harrison Ford costume.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm hoping that Kylo Ren isn't some lackey like Darth Maul that will get offed by the end of this to make room for whichever Sith he's trying to revive, but is instead a constant presence like Darth Vader that will be built up through the trilogy.

I gotta imagine it's going to be the latter, and not the former.

 

[MattyG]

That mask looks a bit plain and I much prefer the creepy cyborg's half-man half-destroyed face. Here's hoping the cyborg is a major antagonist (if not Ren himself).

I can't remember if this was confirmed to be legit or not, but this may be closer to his final mask if it is real;

More rumors about the characters and plot.

Basically, Luke's gone a little crazy protecting a Sith shrine from being opened by Kylo Ren (the Sith guy), who is looking for the key to the shrine, which is embedded in a lightsaber held by Rey.

Rey went into hiding to protect the key; she is Han and Lea's daughter.

Finn defects from the Empire and teams up with Poe - a rebel - while they are in the brig.

Also, there are people in the Republic who are kind of shady, making superweapons now, which prompted Dominic Gleeson's character to switch from the rebels to the Empire (because they are so trustworthy).

Sounds pretty good. It sounds like they're getting away from the beurocracy and science of the prequels and trying to bring it back to the mysticism of the original trilogy. I wonder if the tomb will contain another villain or a creature or something. Could be really interesting.

Sounds like Ward isn't 100% positive on the source on this one, but he's sharing it anyways just to spark conversation.

 

[Woorloog]

If that mask's real... it is really close to Vader's.
Certainly going for the nostalgia aspect.
Personally, i'm not a big fan of that, you can have familiar and utterly new things without playing the nostalgia up too much.
Ah, well, we'll see how things really are in December.

If that is a real mask, i wonder if there's some kind of link between it and Vader's mask in-universe. Perhaps an ancient Sith mask or something like that?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If that mask's real... it is really close to Vader's.
Certainly going for the nostalgia aspect.

If that is a real mask, i wonder if there's some kind of link between it and Vader's mask in-universe. Perhaps an ancient Sith mask or something like that?

It's real.

The design changed a little from that painting to that toy prototype, but that's basically it.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I can't remember if this was confirmed to be legit or not, but this may be closer to his final mask if it is real;

That's the one I was thinking of, actually. (I assume the Revan one was a placeholder.) It looks too much like Vader's IMO. If you show this to someone who doesn't know much about Star Wars they could basically mistake it for Vader's.

The creepy cyborg design is much more unique even on paper.

 

[Woorloog]

Conflicted about that.
On one hand, it does resemble a kabuto just like Vader's and various soldiers' helmets in the OT do. On the other hand, it does feel like they're just making a Vader clone.
Yet again, Kylo Ren does look and feel animalistic in the teaser trailer, unlike Vader.
But that could have been done without Vaderish looks.
But then again, a Star Wars villain should be villainous, it is somewhat black and white universe after all.
EDIT Oh, and i do like that design otherwise. Reminds me of the bonemold helmets in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, which is a positive thing.
...

Can't wait for a proper trailer. A villain is so important part of a Star Wars work, it needs to be well done.

 

[MattyG]

I really like the mask, honestly, especially if Kylo Ren really does idolize the sith. Making a mask that draws inspiration from Vader would make sense for someone who is a sith fanatic and maybe feels that they're the heir to the sith.

 

[Woorloog]

I really like the mask, honestly, especially if Kylo Ren really does idolize the sith. Making a mask that draws inspiration from Vader would make sense for someone who is a sith fanatic and maybe feels that they're the heir to the sith.

That's actually pretty good point.
Funny how context, even just an assumption, makes things feel better. Now i hope there's actually some mention about this in the film, if your assumption is correct. Or at least, if you assumption is correct, this can be inferred from the film. Because there's always a chance it will just look like "because Vader was cool" rather than any better reason.

 

[Sectorseven]

Do we even know why he needs the mask? Does Luke hurt him in a battle like Obi-Wan did?

/poetry