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[Poodlestrike]

Yeah.
I am overall against canonization of PCs, partially because they always insist on setting their attributes. They're nearly always light side male (humans) which is kind of boring. Not every Star Wars game has to be canon either, it is a big enough universe stories can be told without canonizing everything.


I didn't really detail why i think this way. There's more than just dislike, and i don't necessarily dislike PCs in Star Wars either (eg Kyle's good, and Maarek Stele has nothing to dislike exactly).

That's fair. Still, I do so love what a wildly out-of-place power level can do for/to a setting, so I'll keep advocating for Starkiller to make a canon comeback

And I hope Battlefront won't be, so we can get funky stuff like the old ones.

I'm thinking we'll get a canon "main" campaign, and then a bunch of "what if" setups.

 

[The Hermit]

I still don't understand the hate Ewoks get, I fucking love them.

Except for the tall creepy looking ones.

 

[MattyG]

My point is, the probabilities are they will canonize Battlefront's stuff, and probably its campaign, if it has any.

It'll definitely have a campaign. Now, whether it'll be quality or not.... ehh, let's just say I hope DICE has learned some valuable lessons from their last two campaign attempts.

Esa don't amoowa seat yesh eedada thesi?

Spoiler

Apparently there's no Ewokese translation for "don't" and "seat".

 

[JonnyBrad]

Wasn't the "son of Skywalker" thing in the original 1980 cut already? Or am I misunderstanding what you're trying to convey.

Sorry probably didn't get it across properly. In the original dialogue they name him as "Luke Skywalker" meaning they probably had some intel on his whole name. Whereas in the new version the Emperor just says i have no doubt he is the "son of Anakin" meaning its more something he's worked out himself.

 

[Tookay]

Just so you guys can see it.

Original ESB Vader/Palpatine dialogue:

Darth Vader: What is thy bidding my master?
Emperor: There is a great disturbance in the force.
Darth Vader: I have felt it.
Emperor: We have a new enemy. Luke Skywalker.
Darth Vader: Yes, my master.
Emperor: He could destroy us.
Darth Vader: He's just a boy. Obi-wan can no longer help him.
Emperor: The force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a jedi.
Darth Vader: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.
Emperor: Yes, yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?
Darth Vader: He will join us or die, master.

DVD boxset onwards:

Darth Vader: What is thy bidding my master?
Emperor: There is a great disturbance in the force.
Darth Vader: I have felt it.
Emperor: We have a new enemy. The young rebel who destroyed the death star. I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.
Darth Vader: How is that possible?
Emperor: Search your feelings Lord Vader, you will know it to be true. He could destroy us.
Darth Vader: He's just a boy. Obi-wan can no longer help him. The force is strong with him.
Emperor: The son of Skywalker must not become a jedi.
Darth Vader: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.
Emperor: Yes, yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?
Darth Vader: He will join us or die, master.

Personally, I never thought the dialogue made much sense in either version. It sounds like a conversation that should have occurred between ANH and ESB. Why is the "rebel who destroyed the Death Star" suddenly a "new enemy" that they're only discussing now? The opening scroll straight up told us that Vader has been pursuing Luke for a while so why are the Emperor and Vader talking about it like they haven't already recognized he's a threat?

The only real difference between the new scene and the old one is that the new one basically has Vader learn for the first time that the Force-sensitive rebel he's been chasing is Luke, whereas the original basically implies that they both know that he is Vader's son.

 

[Ushojax]

Just so you guys can see it.

Original ESB Vader/Palpatine dialogue:


DVD boxset onwards:


Personally, I never thought the dialogue made much sense in either version. It sounds like a conversation that should have occurred between ANH and ESB. Why is the "rebel who destroyed the Death Star" suddenly a "new enemy" that they're only discussing now? The opening scroll straight up told us that Vader has been pursuing Luke for a while so why are the Emperor and Vader talking about it like they haven't already recognized he's a threat?

The only real difference between the new scene and the old one is that the new one basically has Vader learn for the first time that the Force-sensitive rebel he's been chasing is Luke, whereas the original basically implies that they both know that he is Vader's son.

Vader had been pursuing him in secret, without telling the Emperor. My interpretation was that Palpatine knew about this and is 'revealing' this information to Vader to see how he reacts.

 

[freethought]

I really hope they don't re-canonize him.
I'll note that Canon Sues do not necessarily have a good ending, but what they do while in the picture is what gives them their status. IMO.

By the way, it is funny how nearly all Star Wars PCs from games are Canon Sues.
Let's see... Maarek Stele, from TIE Fighter. Force Sensitive Ace pilot, part of the Emperor's Secret Order and yadda yadda yadda. Apparently became a pilot accidentally as well. That Farlander guy from X-Wing is pretty damn close as well, being Force Sensitive. I class them as Canon Sues because they have no weaknesses, and they're Force Sensitives just because it is cool.
Kyle Katarn? Better known as God. Enough said, no?
And Revan. Just... Revan. Actually, Galen Marek's OK. Just don't re-canonize Revan.

You shouldn't be surprised. Luke Skywalker is probably one of the most famous self-inserts in fiction.

Young rebellious boy held back by his mundane life, thinks he's destined for greatness and it turns out he is The briefing scene he's telling veteran pilots that they're full of shit and his mad skills save the galaxy.

Oh yeah, and his name. Luke S.

 

[GentlemanCrow]

Vader calls Luke by his name when they realise the base is on Hoth. His surprise at hearing the name later on in the bluray/2004 edit is either feigned or an error. I'm going for the second because Jorge will Jorge.

 

[JonnyBrad]

After GL changed the dialogue. The EU retconned it that Vader suspected Luke was his son but does not know for certain. Hence the surprise.

edit

Vader calls Luke by his name when they realise the base is on Hoth. His surprise at hearing the name later on in the bluray/2004 edit is either feigned or an error. I'm going for the second because Jorge will Jorge.

He only uses Skywalker not Luke;

VADER
That is the system. And I'm sure
Skywalker is with them. Set your
course for the Hoth system. General
Veers, prepare you men.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

How does he get his name? He calls him Luke in the final Lightsaber battle, get he this information from torturing Han?

 

[Cheebo]

Vader calls Luke by his name when they realise the base is on Hoth. His surprise at hearing the name later on in the bluray/2004 edit is either feigned or an error. I'm going for the second because Jorge will Jorge.

In the DVD/Bluray commentary Lucas said Vader is lying to Palpatine, that is fully aware of Luke and hunting him down because he wants to overthrow the Emperor himself with Luke as his apprentice.

It is an intentional decision to have Vader lie to the Emperor, because he wants Luke to join him to take down Palpatine (as he tells Luke himself at the end of Empire).

 

[JonnyBrad]

How does he get his name? He calls him Luke in the final Lightsaber battle, get he this information from torturing Han?

In the EU he tortures a spy sometime after Yavin who gives up the name of the pilot. That's obviously not canon anymore.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

In the EU he tortures a spy sometime after Yavin who gives up the name of the pilot. That's obviously not canon anymore.

I was more looking into a explanation from the movie, since the EU didnt exist as Empire was made - but I assume there are no informations how Vader got his name then?

 

[GentlemanCrow]

After GL changed the dialogue. The EU retconned it that Vader suspected Luke was his son but does not know for certain. Hence the surprise.

edit



He only uses Skywalker not Luke;

I know.

In the DVD/Bluray commentary Lucas said Vader is lying to Palpatine, that is fully aware of Luke and hunting him down because he wants to overthrow the Emperor himself with Luke as his apprentice.

It is an intentional decision to have Vader lie to the Emperor, because he wants Luke to join him to take down Palpatine (as he tells Luke himself at the end of Empire).

So it wasn't a pointless change that wasn't needed at all? Phew.

 

[Cheebo]

So it wasn't a pointless change that wasn't needed at all? Phew.

Yeah, he had a reason for the change. It wasn't obvious he was lying in the original, he wanted it to be clear Vader was lying to Palpatine.

That once Vader starts scheming against Palpatine about Luke it sets in motion Palpatines eventual downfall, he is no longer the loyal apprentice.

 

[GentlemanCrow]

Yeah, he had a reason for the change. It wasn't obvious he was lying in the original, he wanted it to be clear Vader was lying to Palpatine.

Why is subtlety lost on George?

 

[Cheebo]

Why is subtlety lost on George?

Eh I thought personally it was already clear he was feigning ignorance of Luke to Palpatine but I see what his intentions were. I mean there are people on this very page who didn't realize Vader was lying! Which surprises me.

Though this is one of the only changes in which I feel the movies are improved. The weird old monkey lady playing the Emperor in ESB originally has nothing on Ian McDiarmid.

 

[GentlemanCrow]

Eh I thought personally it was already clear he was feigning ignorance of Luke to Palpatine but I see what his intentions were. I mean there are people on this very page who didn't realize Vader was lying! Which surprises me.

Though this is one of the only changes in which I feel the movies are improved. The weird old monkey lady playing the Emperor in ESB originally has nothing on Ian McDiarmid.

But they used the ropey ROTS make up on Palpatine. I actually preferred the original version with the ape eyes. As a kid, I never had a problem with the different designs/voice for the Emperor between Empire and Jedi. I just chalked it up to it being a fault of the hologram projection.

 

[Cheebo]

But they used the ropey ROTS make up on Palpatine. I actually preferred the original version with the ape eyes. As a kid, I never had a problem with the different designs/voice for the Emperor between Empire and Jedi. I just chalked it up to it being a fault of the hologram projection.

Yeah, the make up is awful but his performance itself is way better so I see it as a net win.
McDiarmid is honestly the best actor in the franchise.

 

[freethought]

As a kid I thought it was super obvious Vader was trying to keep Luke away from the Emperor, you just don't know why. It's a setup for the whole "I am your father" thing.

Trust Lucas to feel the need to practically spell it out.

 

[Woorloog]

The new Emperor/Vader convo is a change i'm okay with, though i have to say it didn't feel like Vader was lying to me. Sure, logic dictates that must be but otherwise... Still, overall an improvement over the original.
Frankly it reminds of me of prequel Anakin in some ways. And his lack of intelligence. "What?", "I don't understand"...
This and the new victory music in the Return of the Jedi are the best changes, indeed the latter is a very good chance (the original music just isn't very heroic, it is too tribal).

Freethought, you suggested Luke is a self-insert. Maybe so, based on the name. But i never thought him as a Canon Sue, just a hero, and the reason is his obvious lack of intelligence, he does way too many stupid things (though i concede that Mary Sues may be stupid yet things still work in their favor just because so stupidity is not exactly a disqualifying thing) . Which is fitting, considering prequel Anakin... Luke definitively didn't inherit Padme's brains.
As a self-insert, he ain't bad, figure there are way worse examples, and that's ignoring fan fiction.

If there's one issue with Luke, it is his ability to fly a military starfighter without training. Or at least implied training or reason, in the film. The old EU and the novelization imply it is because he was a proficient T-16 pilot and the X-Wings controls are very, very similar (along with overall handling, presumably).

Spoiler

Oh, and while i mock Luke's and Anakin's intelligence, don't that take that too seriously. It is just too much fun.

I would not single out Lucas as lacking subtlety though, it seems to be very common to Hollywood films. Or TV series.

 

[freethought]

Nah, Obi Wan living out in the sticks is aware of Luke's piloting ability, and he bullseye's womp rats in his T-16 back home all the time. They're not much bigger then two metres.

I guess I'd argue that Luke's naivete is a result of Lucas' conversations with Campbell. All Campbell ever claimed ws he helped in fleshing out Luke's arc. In the previous draft Luke was a lot more knowledgable and already a Jedi when the film begins. It does tone down the mary sue-ness but Luke is basically Lucas' idealised version of himself and the Empire are just stand ins for, I don't know, the studios, the US government, bullies in high school, his father, take your pick.

In the original drafts Luke's character didn't exist at all, then when he does come into it, the entire story started twisting itself around him until he becomes the clear protagonist.

 

[Faiz]

I've never understood the conversations about, or the need to explain, Vader knowing about Luke. He blew up the Death Star, and quickly rose in the ranks of the Rebellion. Of course there's intelligence on him by the time Empire rolls around. It's not like the Rebellion had a vested interest in keeping him a secret, either, the only living beings who appeared to know Vader was Anakin were the Emperor and Yoda.

 

[Cheebo]

As a kid I thought it was super obvious Vader was trying to keep Luke away from the Emperor, you just don't know why. It's a setup for the whole "I am your father" thing.

Trust Lucas to feel the need to practically spell it out.

There are people in this very thread who were oblivious Vader was lying and thought he learned of Luke's existence from the Emperor.

Doesn't that prove Lucas's point?

 

[iosefe]

I am guilty of not knowing he was lying. I haven't seen New Empire, just the older one on vHS.

 

[freethought]

There are people in this very thread who were oblivious Vader was lying and thought he learned of Luke's existence from the Emperor.

Doesn't that prove Lucas's point?

But the opening crawl.

 

[Cheebo]

But the opening crawl.

I agree with you it was obvious but people in this thread clearly still didn't catch on somehow. Look at the post right above you.

 

[freethought]

I agree with you it was obvious but people in this thread clearly still didn't catch on somehow. Look at the post right above you.

I don't know. i just went back and I'm not really sure anyone is actually arguing the same thing.

Basically, in the original we know from the beginning of the film that Darth Vader is searching for Luke Skywalker. Not the rebel who destroyed the Death Star, but specifically Luke Skywalker and not just searching, obsessed. It's not just the use of the word in the crawl. It's that first shot of all of those probes being launched in every direction.

When the Emperor contacts Vader, it's basically to tell Vader he knows what's going on. He name drops Luke and all Vader says is "Yes, my Master". It's not an admission, he just say's it. But what we're supposed to take from that is Vader hadn't told the Emperor yet so Vader's actually getting a bit of a dressing down here. Then when the Emperor makes it clear how gravely he takes this threat, Vader suddenly makes a full admission and starts bargaining for Luke's life.

We the audience are meant to infer at this point that Vader has his own personal agenda with Luke, we just don't know what it is yet. The most powerful clue in that scene is actually totally unclear to us at this point, when the Emperor later refers to him as the 'son of Skywalker'.

The changes in the special edition make zero sense. Vader either outright lies to the Emperor seconds before his confession or has been chasing Luke Skywalker this whole time without realising it's his son and he either knew about the Obi Wan connection and still didn't put the pieces together or he just pulled Obi Wan's name out of thin air. It also robs the Emperor's later reference to Luke's parentage of it's ominous tone.

It's an attempt to highlight the personal stakes of Vader because George Lucas dislikes nuance and is completely tone deaf. He also writes shitty dialogue.

 

[TM94]

Is there going to be a Star Wars OT?

Also do we all think next trailer hits when The Avengers is released or?

 

[Cheebo]

I don't know. i just went back and I'm not really sure anyone is actually arguing the same thing.

Basically, in the original we know from the beginning of the film that Darth Vader is searching for Luke Skywalker. Not the rebel who destroyed the Death Star, but specifically Luke Skywalker and not just searching, obsessed. It's not just the use of the word in the crawl. It's that first shot of all of those probes being launched in every direction.

When the Emperor contacts Vader, it's basically to tell Vader he knows what's going on. He name drops Luke and all Vader says is "Yes, my Master". It's not an admission, he just say's it. But what we're supposed to take from that is Vader hadn't told the Emperor yet so Vader's actually getting a bit of a dressing down here. Then when the Emperor makes it clear how gravely he takes this threat, Vader suddenly makes a full admission and starts bargaining for Luke's life.

We the audience are meant to infer at this point that Vader has his own personal agenda with Luke, we just don't know what it is yet. The most powerful clue in that scene is actually totally unclear to us at this point, when the Emperor later refers to him as the 'son of Skywalker'.

The changes in the special edition make zero sense. Vader either outright lies to the Emperor seconds before his confession or has been chasing Luke Skywalker this whole time without realising it's his son and he either knew about the Obi Wan connection and still didn't put the pieces together or he just pulled Obi Wan's name out of thin air. It also robs the Emperor's later reference to Luke's parentage of it's ominous tone.

It's an attempt to highlight the personal stakes of Vader because George Lucas dislikes nuance and is completely tone deaf. He also writes shitty dialogue.

Vader was always meant to know who Luke is already at the start of Empire Strikes Back. He knows Luke is his son, it is why he is hunting him obsessively. Lucas made this clear in the commentary track for ESB, that Vader wants to get Luke when he is on Hoth because he knows he is his son and is trying to find him.

He feigns ignorance to this knowledge to the Emperor in the original version, although somewhat subtlety.

The revision makes it much more obvious Vader knew who Luke was all along in ESB and feigned ignorance when the Emperor told him.


And there are multiple people in this thread who going by the original version were unaware Vader knew Luke was his son and though he learned when the Emperor told him. When the intention of the scene is for Vader to lie to the Emperor's face because he wants to team up with his son to overthrow the Emperor.

 

[freethought]

Vader was always meant to know who Luke is already at the start of Empire Strikes Back. He knows Luke is his son, it is why he is hunting him obsessively. Lucas made this clear in the commentary track for ESB, that Vader wants to get Luke when he is on Hoth because he knows he is his son and is trying to find him.

He feigns ignorance to this knowledge to the Emperor in the original version, although somewhat subtlety.

The revision makes it much more obvious Vader knew who Luke was all along in ESB and feigned ignorance when the Emperor told him.


And there are multiple people in this thread who going by the original version were unaware Vader knew Luke was his son and though he learned when the Emperor told him. When the intention of the scene is for Vader to lie to the Emperor's face because he wants to team up with his son to overthrow the Emperor.

That's not the intention of the scene. You aren't supposed to know Vader is Luke's son at this point. Only that Vader has been hiding this obssession from the Emperor and while I'll concede it's perfectly possible to not remember this plot detail in it's entirety later on, I find it hard to credit you could be unaware of Vader's obsession with Luke at this point while actually watching the film or that you could come away from this conversation thinking the Emperor and Vader had ever discussed this beforehand which was the only real point of the scene, that and to subtly foreshadow the ending, which is the part the change really messes with anyway.

 

[Cheebo]

That's not the intention of the scene. You aren't supposed to know Vader is Luke's son at this point.

The audience is not meant to know he is Vader's son yet. But Vader himself is very much aware Luke is his son prior to the conversation with the Emperor.

This is established directly by statements from Lucas that Vader is feigning ignorance to the Emperor that Luke is his son and that he was already aware on his own since he is plotting to use Luke to overthrow the Emperor.

This was also established in the old EU as well. And is being established in the new "EU" via the Darth Vader comic from Marvel.

In every instance of this universe Vader was completely aware Luke was his son prior to the events of Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah let me lie about being your father- what a strategy

 

[Cheebo]

Yeah let me lie about being your father- what a strategy

eh? Vader never lied to Luke. He lied to the Emperor about knowing Luke was his son.

 

[freethought]

The audience is not meant to know he is Vader's son yet. But Vader himself is very much aware Luke is his son prior to the conversation with the Emperor.

This is established directly by statements from Lucas that Vader is feigning ignorance to the Emperor that Luke is his son and that he was already aware on his own since he is plotting to use Luke to overthrow the Emperor.

This was also established in the old EU as well. And is being established in the new "EU" via the Darth Vader comic from Marvel.

In every instance of this universe Vader was completely aware Luke was his son prior to the events of Empire Strikes Back.

I agree completely, I was simply pointing out that it's a plot point the audience is supposed to be entirely unaware of, so you can't really use it to read the scene so to speak, or at least to discuss audience interpretations of the scene..

In fact the only thing that has ever cast a doubt on it is Lucas' dialogue change.

 

[Woorloog]

Vader's obsession about Luke doesn't necessarily mean he knows he is his son, i'd say (ignoring everything else but the intro crawl). He knows this Skywalker* is the one who destroyed the Death Star and strong in the Force, that alone is kind of enough to be obsessed. Perhaps.

*Pretty sure Lucas claimed somewhere at somepoint that Skywalker is actually a common name in the galaxy. Of course, Lucas does claim a lot of things, so don't read too much to that claim.

 

[Cheebo]

I absolutely agree, I was simply pointing out that it's a plot point the audience is entirely unaware of, so you can't really use it to read the scene so to speak.

The only thing that has ever cast a doubt on that is Lucas' dialogue change.

Once you see the movie it should be apparent he was lying even in the original version when you look back on that acne. I am talking about the people looking back and thinking Vader only learned of Luke in that scene still. Which is why Lucas likely adjusted that scene. Multiple people in here were unaware Vader knew Luke was his son and thought he learned it from the Emperor. Which is kind of crazy to have that go over your head. I wouldn't call it subtle in any verison of the film.

Vader's obsession about Luke doesn't necessarily mean he knows he is his son, i'd say (ignoring everything else but the intro crawl). He knows this Skywalker* is the one who destroyed the Death Star and strong in the Force, that alone is kind of enough to be obsessed. Perhaps.

*Pretty sure Lucas claimed somewhere at somepoint that Skywalker is actually a common name in the galaxy. Of course, Lucas does claim a lot of things, so don't read too much to that claim.

he knows he is his son though. It isn't something that is up for debate. It was established in the old EU he knew and we know Marvels Vader mini-series will establish this as well. Not to mention Lucas says Vader knows Luke is his son at the time of ESB.

 

[Woorloog]

he knows he is his son though. It isn't something that is up for debate. It was established in the old EU he knew and we know Marvels Vader mini-series will establish this as well. Not to mention Lucas says Vader knows Luke is his son at the time of ESB.

It is more logical he knows Luke is his son, yes. And i do treat it like that. I just pointed out it can be read in other ways as well.

I will ignore what EU says though, old or new. And i really hope they keep the films self-contained so that EU is not required reading in any way.

 

[freethought]

Once you see the movie it should be apparent he was lying even in the original version when you look back on that acne. I am talking about the people looking back and thinking Vader only learned of Luke in that scene still. Which is why Lucas likely adjusted that scene. Multiple people in here were unaware Vader knew Luke was his son and thought he learned it from the Emperor. Which is kind of crazy to have that go over your head. I wouldn't call it subtle in any verison of the film.

Again, it may be possible to misremember the film in this way years later, but it's absolutely impossible to think this when you're watching the film.

The Rebels are there, and I'm sure Skywalker is with them.

I guess my real point is that I think you're misinterpreting the reason for the change. It's not to clear up any ambiguity over what Vader knew, in fact I'd argue it does the exact opposite. I've always assumed that George changed it because he wanted to foreshadow the ending reveal more than the scene originally does. Luke is now only referred to as Anakin's son, Anakin's full name is mentioned and the Emperor implies that Vader has an emotional stake in all of this.

In fact I'd go further and argue that the line you're discussing, changing Vader's "Yes, my Master" to "How is that possible?" is the least important change and any ambiguity it introduces or clears up is completely unintentional. Lucas just needed a bit of bridging dialogue to the Emperor's new bit about Vader searching his feelings and he honestly didn't put that much thought into it.

But that's just my take on it.

 

[JonnyBrad]

The audience is not meant to know he is Vader's son yet. But Vader himself is very much aware Luke is his son prior to the conversation with the Emperor.

This is established directly by statements from Lucas that Vader is feigning ignorance to the Emperor that Luke is his son and that he was already aware on his own since he is plotting to use Luke to overthrow the Emperor.

This was also established in the old EU as well. And is being established in the new "EU" via the Darth Vader comic from Marvel.

In every instance of this universe Vader was completely aware Luke was his son prior to the events of Empire Strikes Back.

Not quite. He suspected but didn't know he was his son.

The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader
"What is thy bidding, my Master?"
From light years away, on Coruscant, the Emperor replied, "There is a great disturbance in the Force."
"I have felt it," Vader said.
"We have a new enemy. The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker."
Offspring?! The surviving tissue in Vader's throat suddenly went dry. Through his shock, he managed to say, "How is that possible?"
Without offering any explanation to support his stated conviction, the Emperor answered, "Search your feelings, Lord Vader. You will know it to be true. He could destroy us."
Having fought Luke Skywalker on Mimban, Vader was even more aware of the young man's powers than was the Emperor. But he also knew something else; Luke was as ignorant of their familial connection as Vader had been. If he had known the truth on Mimban, Vader thought, I would have sensed it. Still grappling with the Emperor's declaration, he struggled to find words that might discourage his Master's interest in Skywalker. "He is just a boy," Vader said. "Obi-Wan can no longer help him."
The Emperor believed otherwise. "The Force is strong with him," he said. "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi."
The Emperor had not said in so many words that he wanted Luke Skywalker dead, so Vader — needing Skywalker alive to accomplish his goals — took a different tack. "If he could be turned," Vader suggested, "he would become a powerful ally."
"Yes," the Emperor mused, as if he had not thought of that possibility. Vader could only imagine what the Emperor was thinking. The Sith had long maintained their rule of two: one Master, one apprentice. Even Vader knew that there wasn't room enough in the galaxy for three Sith Lords, and yet the Emperor's hooded eyes seemed to sparkle as he said more emphatically, "Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?"
"He will join us or die, Master," Vader said. He bowed, and the Emperor's hologram faded out.
Now that the Emperor was interested in Luke Skywalker's fate, Vader knew he had to do everything in his power to find Luke before the Emperor found him.

 

[freethought]

Not quite. He suspected but didn't know he was his son.

So he knew Luke's name, knew he was a crack fighter pilot, knew he was unusually strong in the force and knew he'd been wheeling around with Obi Wan and he still hadn't put it together?

Thank god the film rejects this interpretation entirely.

 

[JonnyBrad]

So he knew Luke's name, knew he was a crack fighter pilot, knew he was unusually strong in the force and knew he'd been wheeling around with Obi Wan and he still hadn't put it together?

Thank god the film rejects this interpretation entirely.

Quite. The only thing to say in is defence is he may not have known at the time he was the blonde kid with Obi Wan on the death star and Skywalker might have been the equivalent of Smith in GFFA.

Splinter of a Minds Eye fucks with the EU loads as well. Having had them meet before ESB and having a lightsaber duel.

 

[Jarmel]

So he knew Luke's name, knew he was a crack fighter pilot, knew he was unusually strong in the force and knew he'd been wheeling around with Obi Wan and he still hadn't put it together?

Thank god the film rejects this interpretation entirely.

Skywalker is supposed to be a common last name.

 

[freethought]

Skywalker is supposed to be a common last name.

If a powerful wizard named John Smith had an epic falling out with his old master and his pregnant wife then 20 years later found that same old master running around with a 20 year old kid who just happened to be a powerful wizard and his name was Tim Smith and he didn't figure out it was his kid instantly upon learning the kids name, then that is one pretty stupid powerful wizard.

Darth Vader never struck me as all that stupid.

 

[DodgerSan]

Does this have any merit at all?

http://ikwiz.com/article.asp?id=9173&name=J.J.+Abrams+Asks+Disney+To+Move+Up+%27Star+Wars%3A+The+Force+Awakens+Release%27+Date

I know nothing about that site, so could be s joke. I can't inagine they'd want Star Wars and Avengers in direct competition.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

That makes absolutely no sense - he fought to get the date pushed back to summer 2016. The December date was the compromise.

Also, I highly doubt he could get post-production on a Star Wars movie turned around THAT goddamned fast. Less than a year? To turn out a Star Wars flick?

Considering the venue, maybe he was joking.

Or maybe the whole thing is bullshit. I've never heard of this site

 

[Cheebo]

Does this have any merit at all?

http://ikwiz.com/article.asp?id=9173&name=J.J.+Abrams+Asks+Disney+To+Move+Up+%27Star+Wars%3A+The+Force+Awakens+Release%27+Date

I know nothing about that site, so could be s joke. I can't inagine they'd want Star Wars and Avengers in direct competition.

Ikwiz is a joke.

 

[freethought]

That makes absolutely no sense - he fought to get the date pushed back to summer 2016. The December date was the compromise.

Also, I highly doubt he could get post-production on a Star Wars movie turned around THAT goddamned fast. Less than a year? To turn out a Star Wars flick?

Considering the venue, maybe he was joking.

Or maybe the whole thing is bullshit. I've never heard of this site

It really does sound like he was joking, if he said it. Isn't it usually the other way around? Never heard of a director pushing a studio to bring a release forward.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

is ikwiz one of those shitass "satire" sites that thinks satire is "write a lie poorly and say it's satire when someone calls you on it?"

 

[MattyG]

lol no way in hell is that even a remote possibility.