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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
Sectorseven
Member
I don't remember if it made it on screen in the prequels, but I believe their body armor from the Crimson Empire comic series was made canon.
I mentioned that very thing in my next post.
To sum up my point on this, and leave it at that: I think it was a fine *assumption* when there was just the OT. I don't think it works any more with current canon, particularly the PT, but also Clone Wars and now Rebels with the aforementioned Inquisitor. We've now seen how the sausage was made and there was basically no xenophobia there.
Maybe that's just because Lucas couldn't see his child killing convert also being racist or something, I dunno.
They're in some of the leaked concept art, if I recall correct. I doubt there will be anything big about them, but maybe we'll get a small fight scene involving them or something?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Some are hoping that the guys from The Raid were cast to be those guys.
The Tarkin novel makes it clear that Palpatine himself doesn't care about the Empire or imperial ideology, he just made the Empire so he could wipe out the Jedi, have power, and have all the free time in the world to study ancient Sith arts.
The Servants of the Empire books also have some of the cadets refer to an officer (IIRC) as a stupid rimmer (the Outer Rim, implication being that he's a hick) for being xenophobic. And there are significant aliens within the imperial ranks in Rebels, such as the Inquisitor and Mas Amedda, who is the Grand Vizier of the Empire.
I think what they're trying to do here in the new continuity is make the idea that xenophobia is prevalent in the Empire but perhaps not openly official ideology. It's a dogwhistle thing used to drum up support in the base population (humans) and mostly an element of imperial propaganda rather than something Palpatine himself cares about. He's content to let the bureaucrats do whatever so long as they're at each other's throats rather than conspiring against him, and if xenophobia is something that keeps the gears moving then all the better.
The Servants of the Empire books also have some of the cadets refer to an officer (IIRC) as a stupid rimmer (the Outer Rim, implication being that he's a hick) for being xenophobic. And there are significant aliens within the imperial ranks in Rebels, such as the Inquisitor and Mas Amedda, who is the Grand Vizier of the Empire.
I think what they're trying to do here in the new continuity is make the idea that xenophobia is prevalent in the Empire but perhaps not openly official ideology. It's a dogwhistle thing used to drum up support in the base population (humans) and mostly an element of imperial propaganda rather than something Palpatine himself cares about. He's content to let the bureaucrats do whatever so long as they're at each other's throats rather than conspiring against him, and if xenophobia is something that keeps the gears moving then all the better.
Oh my god. I hadn't even thought of that possibility until now. That would be amazing.
freethought
Member
Plus Chewie doesn't even get a medal! The rebellion were just as anti-alien as the Empire man. The Mon Cals are just a bunch of Uncle Toms and Lando probably has old ball chin on some lifetime slavery contract like Han and Chewie.
Ooh, maybe they won't bring back the fucking life debt.
Ooh, maybe they won't bring back the fucking life debt.
CitizenVectron
Member
lol. Well I mean there are historical parallels. In the US Civil War the north was fighting against slavery...but most people (and the government) still believed them to be inferior and not deserving full rights, just not being slaves.
And in World War II people were shocked by the Nazi treatment and killing of Jews, but most of the western world was pretty anti-Semitic at the time too, they just didn't think they should all die.
So I guess there would be a chance that the rebels believe aliens should have more rights...just not as many as humans.
freethought
Member
Honestly I feel like y'all are putting far too much thought into this. In the OT most people were humans because it was cheaper. Save the make-up budget for the Cantina because that's where it's most effective. By the time he made Jedi he had enough money to put some aliens in the rebellion and then you roll around to the PT and the universe represented is absolutely no longer majority human so the Empire being racist makes no sense anymore.
Just forget about the discrepancy and move on. It's easy to do because it basically applies equally to the rebels and the Empire.
There is no in universe explanation that could possibly make any sense. Honestly, I'd prefer Lucas ignore it completely as he has and if the only way for it to actually make sense was to get rid of most of the background aliens in the PT then fuck that. This is one point I will defend George's decision to the death.
If he had the budget I guarantee there would have been way more aliens in the OT and I honestly am fine with him using new tech and resources to alter that one aspect of the SW universe in the new films and I sincerely hope it's one element from the prequels we see in the NT, not necessarily any of the designs but the idea that this universe is as diverse as the one we saw in the PT.
CitizenVectron
Member
Oh I'm not saying that he intended that, just that it wouldn't be unusual for a society to see itself as being moral and more advanced than an enemy, but in actuality being still regressive.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
In ESB all the bounty hunters are non-humans apart from Boba Fett (whose species was unknown at the time). Maybe they resorted to a life of bounty hunting because this is the only way they can make a living in a racist society.
Badlucktroll
Member
Anyone care to speculate on why the empire still exists?
freethought
Member
Because taking out a single military installation rarely brings down whole empires.
I'd say the immediate effect of the Emperor's death is the fracturing of the Empire. The Emperor had no clear heir, unless you count Vader though he died as well, and anyway a heir would have to be strong leader (since the Empire was new, it had no tradition of getting a new leader) to keep things together.
Warlords, Moffs, others probably start setting up their own kingdoms the moment they heard the Emperor has died, and Vader and the inner circle (i presume those robed guys following the Emperor in ROTJ where his inner circle) with him.
Some may have joined the Rebels, and some gain dominion over the others.
I reckon TFA will have a single relatively big Empire remnant left and the New Republic (or whatever it will be called) dominating most of the explored galaxy.
Warlords, Moffs, others probably start setting up their own kingdoms the moment they heard the Emperor has died, and Vader and the inner circle (i presume those robed guys following the Emperor in ROTJ where his inner circle) with him.
Some may have joined the Rebels, and some gain dominion over the others.
I reckon TFA will have a single relatively big Empire remnant left and the New Republic (or whatever it will be called) dominating most of the explored galaxy.
Sectorseven
Member
30 years is such a grey area. Powers certainly could have consolidated in that time, but then again in-fighting can last much longer than that. In a way, the Emperor's death could be the worst thing to happen for the Rebels.
Damn, I just don't want ROTJ to be TOO irrelevant lol.
Though considering how much of a meanie Sheev was, it's probably a good thing he died.
I don't know, Palps could keep things focused when and how he wanted to. Do note that in ROTJ they specifically attack when the Emperor's aboard the Death Star. I'm guessing the highest leadership of the Rebellion did now Palps was a Sith Lord (via Yoda and Bail Organa), and knew what that meant for the galaxy.
Without Palps leading the Empire, i figure the Rebels could cut deals with warring warlords at least, if not outright defeat them.
freethought
Member
What's the point in speculating? The first paragraph of the opening crawl will likely cover all of it.
Because speculating is fun?
WadiumArcadium
Member
Where's the fun in that?
Spiritreaver
Member
As someone who lurks this thread. A lot of the posts lately have been people arguing over Lucas and the prequels because there were no rumors/news to speculate on.
I didn't click this thread for a while. Speculation is good.
CitizenVectron
Member
Well let's say that on 9/11 Bush was on the flagship of the US Atlantic fleet and Bin Laden took out the ship with Bush on it. Would the US just go "well, Bush is dead...so I guess Osama is our new leader"?
Presumably there would either be:
A) A line of succession
B) An internal fight amongst the admirals or grand moffs.
The Empire would be weakened, no doubt, since Sheev was the glue holding everyone together in fear...but they would also be afraid of letting it all apart and how the rebellion would hunt and kill them, so it would force some amount of working together to keep it around.
Sectorseven
Member
It's possible. I have to assume the Emperor himself leaked word of his overseeing the Death Star just like he allowed the plans to get out. And for all the Rebels knew, the Emperor could have been on a nearby star ship rather than the Death Star itself, like Vader was with his Star Destroyer. Also, I don't see the Rebels conspiring a government overthrow prior to the Emperor's death without him becoming aware of it and snuffing out the defectors.
Besides, the empire surely had troops and ships that would dwarf the rebels even after the Endor battle, and I imagine there were a lot of higher ups with their eyes set on the Emperor role, so I'm not sure how much leverage the alliance would really have on them.
freethought
Member
Eh, that's a terrible argument. You can't compare a term limited elected executive to a lifelong dictator.
Besides, the Empire are still obviously a very real threat. The trailer establishes that quite well. How this new sith fits in is still a mystery but it seems like the war from Jedi is still very much underway.
A Mystery of the Sith, you say?
I figure the governors would vie for power. What I don't get is that there was a galaxy wide celebration, even on Coruscant. Isn't that the seat of the galactic dictator? Or was it his SSD? Actually, the death star...
Hmm
Poodlestrike
Banned
I don't think it does, actually. We saw storm troopers, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the Empire (as a cohesive whole) is still around. It could be that the local garrisons have fallen under the control of various Moffs and Governors, and what we saw were some of those.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The Roman empire (which the empire in star wars was clearly modeled after) lasted 1500 years and emperors were getting killed all the time. Heck it survived almost 1000 after Rome was sacked
Stop trying to stifle free thought.
freethought
Member
^^^^Nah, just speech. Think what you like.
Well that's all pure conjecture. Most people see stormtroopers and TIE fighters and they naturally assume that means the Empire are still the bad guys.
Well that's all pure conjecture. Most people see stormtroopers and TIE fighters and they naturally assume that means the Empire are still the bad guys.
Poodlestrike
Banned
freethought
Member
It's all conjecture until we get some more info
I was talking about the trailer. Seeing TIEs and stormtroopers and thinking it means the Empire are in the film isn't really conjecture.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Wasn't the Empire just the same governmental system as the Old Republic but with more assholes in charge? It would take more than just the destruction of the Death Star 2 and the unconfirmed death of the Emperor to grind it to a halt. There would be bureaucrats on Coruscant and elsewhere who would just switch to Plan B. There were too many Imperials with power and prestige--and undoubtedly the wherewithal to maintain it-- for it all just to end because Lando got a lucky shot.
Or there was another pair of Siths hanging around who took over.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Maybe Palpatine's blue horned friend is the new Emperor.
The Senate was dissolved in ANH. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't just puppets, anyway. Not that the Old Republic Senate actually ever accomplished anything.
CreepingFear
Member
freethought
Member
So was I. You even called it an assumption earlier
An assumption isn't the same thing as conjecture and you weren't talking about the trailer. There was no mention of moffs or governor in it. If you go just by the trailer, the Empire are in the film. It's that simple.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I... was talking about the trailer, though? If you go by just the trailer, there are strong indications that the empire is in, but it's not spelled out explicitly or anything.
Its pretty simple. The Empire had tens of thousands of Star Destroyers alone and massive military support. In reality life for most of the Empire was pretty good if not similar to what it was under the Republic if not better for the core worlds.
There is a reason that most of the Rebellions support comes from outer rim territory. The Empire basically left the outer rim to fight for itself while making sure to collect taxes and rough up trouble makers. So you build that resentment for the Empire in that area while the rest of the Galaxy enjoys pretty decent life.
You now have to convince people who really saw no big change for the worse under Palpatine why a bunch of Hicks from the Outer Rim are suddenly a much better choice than the stability and prosperity they have known.
There is a reason that most of the Rebellions support comes from outer rim territory. The Empire basically left the outer rim to fight for itself while making sure to collect taxes and rough up trouble makers. So you build that resentment for the Empire in that area while the rest of the Galaxy enjoys pretty decent life.
You now have to convince people who really saw no big change for the worse under Palpatine why a bunch of Hicks from the Outer Rim are suddenly a much better choice than the stability and prosperity they have known.
freethought
Member
The only thing we saw in the trailer were some Imperial Stormtroopers and some Imperial TIE Fighters. Taking those two elements and saying this means the Empire is featured in the movie isn't even an assumption, I should never have used the word in the first place. It's a conclusion.
Anything else is just something you've made up in your head. You were talking about the Empire fracturing and governors and moffs vying for power. What part of the trailer is that?
If you want to keep being obtuse about it, fine but the Empire are in this movie.
By the way, are we sure the Stormtroopers in EP7 work for the Empire? They could be the New Republic's soldiers, couldn't they?
Sure, it would be odd why they would use the suit (white armor) made so infamous by the Clone Troopers and later Stormtroopers but on the other hand, it would be a symbol of legitimacy, continuity.
(I don't actually remember if the Empire has been explicitly stated to be in still. I assume it is but even then that doesn't necessarily invalidate my speculation.)
Sure, it would be odd why they would use the suit (white armor) made so infamous by the Clone Troopers and later Stormtroopers but on the other hand, it would be a symbol of legitimacy, continuity.
(I don't actually remember if the Empire has been explicitly stated to be in still. I assume it is but even then that doesn't necessarily invalidate my speculation.)
Making Star Wars has reported Empire and New Republic are basically in a Cold War state both with major super weapons. So the empire is a pretty real significant threat from what we have heard.
The Stormtroopers are working for the Empire. The tie fighters are imperial too. John Boyegas Stormtrooper is one who fled/abandoned the empire at the start of the film.
The Stormtroopers are working for the Empire. The tie fighters are imperial too. John Boyegas Stormtrooper is one who fled/abandoned the empire at the start of the film.
Sectorseven
Member
I think the teaser was meant to be pretty straightforward with it's imagery.