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[Bobby Roberts]

That's kind of a ridiculous thing to say. I've been comparing episodes from both series back to back and the facial animations in Rebels are as good if not better than those in late season TCW.

No, it's not ridiculous to say. It could be argued that it's sorta ridiculous to go to the effort to back-to-back a-b compare scenes from the two shows specifically to counter this claim, but I'd say that's just being thorough. Which is cool. But I don't know why my seeing the same thing you're seeing and saying that it's lacking is somehow "ridiculous."

It doesn't look anywhere near as good, to me. You think it does. So obviously we're judging the thing on different criteria, for whatever reason. That's not "ridiculous." That's just how opinions work.

I completely disagree that Rebels looks anywhere near as good as Clone Wars in any regard, and the facial animations/expressiveness are one of the bigger deficits in that comparison.

Half the time they can't even get the fuckin' lip sync right.

 

[obin_gam]

I don't mind making an OT if it's allowed. Some ideas on what could go in it would be nice though. I'm thinking new canon timeline etc.

Yeah, what is "Canon" and what is "Legends" should definitely be in the op.

 

[Gravidee]

It doesn't look anywhere near as good, to me. You think it does. So obviously we're judging the thing on different criteria, for whatever reason. That's not "ridiculous." That's just how opinions work.

I completely disagree that Rebels looks anywhere near as good as Clone Wars in any regard, and the facial animations/expressiveness are one of the bigger deficits in that comparison.

Have you seen the latest episode, when Hera is talking to Fulcrum's hologram? That scene alone features as many subtleties in her expressions as many scenes found in TCW, and certainly better than in seasons 1 and 2. Or perhaps for better comparison, examine Tarkin's character from both shows and tell me whose face animates better.

Half the time they can't even get the fuckin' lip sync right.

Are you sure that's not a problem with the "copies" of the show you're watching? Lip-syncing seems on par with TCW.

 

[FriendlyGoat]

Have you seen the latest episode, when Hera is talking to Fulcrum's hologram? That scene alone features as many subtleties in her expressions as many scenes found in TCW, and certainly better than in seasons 1 and 2.
Are you sure that's not a problem with the "copies" of the show you're watching? Lip-syncing seems on par with TCW.

I think the animation in Rebels is vastly more "expressive" in that it mimics the cartoon style of overexpression (i.e. swaying mouth and crazy eyebrows, which may be difficult to pull off in CG) that is very typical of kids shows, but it often comes across as very awkward or just too much. Early TCW was completely the opposite, though I think they mostly overcame the relative stiffness in the later seasons.

I do think many times it works well in Rebels, like the scene you mention, and I hope with early feedback from Season 1 they've begun to tone it down a little.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Are you sure that's not a problem with the "copies" of the show you're watching? .

No. It's not a problem with the "copies" of the show I'm watching. And yes, I'm caught up with the show.

The problem with the "subtleties" of expression is that they're not subtle.

Look at this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7EVGD1JCs0

Features just sliding all over his face, character can't stay still in the frame for longer than a half second, no real focus. It's distracting as shit.

Compare that to this similar clip of Anakin interrogating Asajj Ventress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dfnkLaYfh0

Even with the aspect ratio being botched in that youtube, the performances appear better because the animation is way more solid. The movement of the eyes, the facial expressions, the decisions NOT to overexaggerate every possible facial tic. Plus, it looks like the words are ACTUALLY coming out of the characters mouths.

Now, Matt Lanter isn't as good an actor as Jason Isaacs. But yet the animators managed to give his vocal performance WAY more support, and it ends up being the better overall presentation in comparison. Isaacs comes off as a disembodied voice being filtered through a rubbery toy.

 

[Gravidee]

I think the animation in Rebels is vastly more "expressive" in that it mimics the cartoon style of overexpression (i.e. swaying mouth and crazy eyebrows, which may be difficult to pull off in CG) that is very typical of kids shows, but it often comes across as very awkward or just too much. Early TCW was completely the opposite, though I think they mostly overcame the relative stiffness in the later seasons.

I do think many times it works well in Rebels, like the scene you mention, and I hope with early feedback from Season 1 they've begun to tone it down a little.

One obstacle that generally comes from comparing the two is that TCW's animation style became more "realistic" in terms of movement as it went on. Rebels adopts the more traditional animation approach meaning more exaggeration in movement. I do think they'll improve as they get used to animating in this style.

Even with the aspect ratio being botched in that youtube, the performances appear better because the animation is way more solid. The movement of the eyes, the facial expressions, the decisions NOT to overexaggerate every possible facial tic. Plus, it looks like the words are ACTUALLY coming out of the characters mouths.

The fact that you're even comparing the animation of one of the most pivotal arcs in TCW (end of season 5 to be precise) to the season 1 finale of Rebels lends credibility to the show, don't you think?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The fact that you're even comparing the animation of one of the most pivotal arcs in TCW (end of season 5 to be precise) to the season 1 finale of Rebels lends credibility to the show, don't you think?

No. I'm comparing similar scenes, as a means to speak to your initial post:

the facial animations in Rebels are as good if not better than those in late season TCW.

That comparison highlights that no, they're not as good, if not better. They're just worse. Period.

 

[Gravidee]

That comparison highlights that no, they're not as good, if not better. They're just worse. Period.

Well, if that's what you want to think. The general consensus is that the main strength in Rebels' animation is the facial expressions, so you're in the minority I guess.

 

[FriendlyGoat]

Well, if that's what you want to think. The general consensus is that the main strength in Rebels' animation is the facial expressions, so you're in the minority I guess.

The expressions were pushed hard in the promotions for the show, but I don't think that it is a consensus that they are the animation's main strength by critics or the community as a whole. It is certainly what the show prioritizes for the othewise lacking quality overall, but I wouldn't classify the reception as completely positive.

I see it come up as a common complaint actually, though I'm not sure whether that would be enough to call a consensus either. The discussion is out there, and I personally fall on the "it's too much" side.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I also don't know why we're doing this in the Force Awakens thread. The Rebels thread is where this should go. Apologies.

 

[BlueDogAnchorite]

I prefer The Clone Wars way more than Star Wars Rebels. I really hope Ahsoka doesn't die. She was one of my favorite characters of that show.

 

[CitizenVectron]

I keep coming in here because I think there are updates, or new discussion about the film, but it's all just people talking about Rebels or CW. Can we keep that stuff limited to their own thread?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I keep coming in here because I think there are updates, or new discussion about the film, but it's all just people talking about Rebels or CW. Can we keep that stuff limited to their own thread?

No doubt. I just apologized for my part in that, for whatever that's worth.

 

[BlueDogAnchorite]

I just realized that too. I didn't know that I went off topic. Which is why I wont do it again.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I've got a barebones Star Wars OT sorted. Should I go ahead and post it?

 

[The Lamonster]

I've got a barebones Star Wars OT sorted. Should I go ahead and post it?

 

[brotkasten]

I keep coming in here because I think there are updates, or new discussion about the film, but it's all just people talking about Rebels or CW. Can we keep that stuff limited to their own thread?

I know how you feel and yet I prefer this over tons of pictures of toys and action figures.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

OT is up here if anyone's interested. It's a bit rough about the edges but I'll add to it over time.

 

[LastNac]

I don't mind making an OT if it's allowed. Some ideas on what could go in it would be nice though. I'm thinking new canon timeline etc.

To be just about the bolded is a little obnoxious honestly and will probably alienate a lot of people. Also worth noting that there is no "canon" Star Wars game yet and this is a gaming forum. I'm sure people are going to want to talk about that spectrum of the Saga.

If we're gonna honor Star Wars then let's honor all of it.

 

[munchie64]

To be just about the bolded is a little obnoxious honestly and will probably alienate a lot of people. Also worth noting that there is no "canon" Star Wars game yet and this is a gaming forum. I'm sure people are going to want to talk about that spectrum of the Saga.

If we're gonna honor Star Wars then let's honor all of it.

lol
If you wanna talk about the EU no one's stopping you, but it's important to know stuff like what's in the new canon these days. Who's being "alienated" from that?

 

[LastNac]

lol
If you wanna talk about the EU no one's stopping you, but it's important to know stuff like what's in the new canon these days. Who's being "alienated" from that?

You realize that the "Legends" branding is a thing for a reason, they are still releasing new content under that brand. Plus, I think most people are just going to still differentiate between Movies and EU. The status of the Tarkin book isn't going to be a huge deal for most people since it's still EU.



I just feel throwing that "official" stuff up front in center sets a bad tone.

We could always have a "Legends" OT to solve the issue if we cant just merge it.

 

[CloudyTuba]

lol
If you wanna talk about the EU no one's stopping you, but it's important to know stuff like what's in the new canon these days. Who's being "alienated" from that?

I agree. It's important information, good to include.

If LastNac is worried about Legends discussion being discouraged then maybe OP can make a small section commenting about Legends as well. I really dont think that the purpose of the canon timeline was to discourage discusson of old EU.

 

[LastNac]

I agree. It's important information, good to include.

If LastNac is worried about Legends discussion being discouraged then maybe OP can make a small section commenting about Legends as well. I really dont think that the purpose of the canon timeline was to discourage discusson of old EU.

Pretty much my worry.

I think there is this mentality that is pushing these older stories aside. I feel there still needs to be conversations about them, especially since the Tarkin book is apparently bringing a lot of the older stuff into this new EU.

 

[munchie64]

Pretty much my worry.

I think there is this mentality that is pushing these older stories aside. I feel there still needs to be conversations about them, especially since the Tarkin book is apparently bringing a lot of the older stuff into this new EU.

I'm sure if you ask WadiumArcadium he can do a Legends section.
But I seriously don't see a reason to be worried about that.

 

[LastNac]

I'm sure if you ask WadiumArcadium he can do a Legends section.
But I seriously don't see a reason to be worried about that.

Just want that equal representation, that's all.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Just want that equal representation, that's all.

It's a Star Wars OT so it's intended for discussion of all things Star Wars. I'll definitely be adding a Legends section when I get chance. Probably not a full timeline though as that would take around three years.

And this is the last non Ep7 related post I'll make in this thread.

 

[LastNac]

It's a Star Wars OT so it's intended for discussion of all things Star Wars. I'll definitely be adding a Legends section when I get chance. Probably not a full timeline though as that would take around three years.

And this is the last non Ep7 related post I'll make in this thread.

You could always use the Del-Rey timeline as a base.

 

[graffix13]

I keep coming in here because I think there are updates, or new discussion about the film, but it's all just people talking about Rebels or CW. Can we keep that stuff limited to their own thread?

I keep falling for this too.

Oh, welp. Just fell for it again.

 

[Cheebo]

How about some actual spoilers instead of people arguing about the EU? Not like we are ever going to see another old Legends book or anything ever again anyway.

Some info on Maisie Richardon-Seller's character

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/s...aracters-name-plus-the-spoilers-significance/

It appears The Emissary is on a secret mission of her own.
The role is small but could be pivotal.
She has 3-4 scenes at most.
It appears she is working for Leia.
She is at Rose’s Pub when the Empire’s new weapon levels the pub and the castle next to it.
She doesn’t survive the attack.
Her death brings Leia and See-Threepio to the planet where they have an awkward meeting with Han Solo.

 

[LastNac]

How about some actual spoilers instead of people arguing about the EU? Not like we are ever going to see another old Legends book or anything ever again anyway.

Some info on Maisie Richardon-Seller's character

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/s...aracters-name-plus-the-spoilers-significance/

So anti-EU/salty , Cheebo...

You swear up and down that TOR is "Legends" and that is getting new content left and right.

But anyway, Ward seems to theorize that

Spoiler

Driver

could be the only one in the film with a connection to Han, seems like a serious mislead given the fact we've all heard about

Spoiler

Rey's

parentage.

 

[Cheebo]

New Leia spoilers kids.

The facts:

Leia sends an emissary to Rose’s planet who is killed by the “Catapult” weapon of the Empire.
The sequence in which Han Solo and Princess meet for the first time in the film is described as “awkward.”
She is described as a Queen on the main cast list.
At one point she tells Rebel pilot Poe Dameron his squadron is all that survived. He reluctantly obeys her orders.
She appears to still be a prominent leader of the Rebel Alliance.
Leia wants to know what Finn knows (presumably about the Empire).
Towards the middle of the film, in the Map Room of the Rebel Base, Leia has a secret “up her sleeve,” involving her own weapon called “The Sledgehammer” by the production.
Without storyboards, “The Sledgehammer” is difficult to understand but appears to be a kamikaze-like craft capable of taking down Star Destroyer sized spacecrafts.
Leia is proud of this weapon.
Rose tells Leia she thinks the sword found inside BB-8 should be with Finn so Leia hands the lightsaber over to him.
Leia and Han still argue.
The last thing Han says to Leia before he leaves for the final mission is “I’ll hurry back.”
When Kylo and Han meet again, it cuts to Leia who feels “a disturbance in the Force” so to speak.
There is no indication she is a Jedi or started upon that path with her brother.
Leia is elated when it appears Luke has been found.
At the end of the film, Leia and Rey have a special goodbye in which she bids Rey “a fond farewell.”

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/star-wars-the-force-awakens-all-about-leia-the-ultimate-weapons/

You swear up and down that TOR is "Legends" and that is getting new content left and right.

Because it was an expensive MMO that launched shortly before the hammer went down. If you read anything into that you are mistaken. Del Rey editors have stated pretty adamantly LucasBooks/Del Rey will not be making any Legends media, that that is done. Everything is to be canon to keep things simple and straight-forward. It's time to forget about the EU, it was obvious the EU was dead the second they announced Episode VII back in 2012. It's off in it's retirement home with the old Marvel Comics with it's green rabbit.

I mean the idea that they would say "Here is a new book, I know the film everyone saw that made 1-2 billion dollars has Han dead and Chewie alive but in this universe Han is alive and Chewie is alive. Have fun!" That's comic book level stuff.

Not to mention Leland Chee stated after the Legends decision that Star Wars is not like a comic book franchise, there aren't multiple universes/timelines. There is just one. And the Legends decision was made in part to maintain a single continuity and timeline. It's gone LastNac, everything points to that.

 

[sphagnum]

You swear up and down that TOR is "Legends" and that is getting new content left and right.

TOR already contradicts canon because canon states that the Galactic Republic did not exist until around 1000 BBY. TOR is pretty obviously just the last part from Legends that's holding over until it dies.

Anyway, I'm intrigued by the Leia rumors. The catapult sounds like a particularly odd weapon, but I guess that comes down to whether or not MSW is correct in its interpretation. I don't mind if Leia doesn't use the Force outside of the scene where she senses Han's death - it always seemed to me like she was more comfortable as a politician and public figure and they probably don't want politicians and Jedi mixing after the Jedi got slaughtered because of their involvement with politicians in the prequels. Maybe Luke will give her some training in the years after RotJ before he goes into hiding, but I don't think she'll ever become a full fledged Jedi.

I still hope she pulls out a lightsaber in Episode VIII though.

 

[The Elite]

TOR already contradicts canon because canon states that the Galactic Republic did not exist until around 1000 BBY. TOR is pretty obviously just the last part from Legends that's holding over until it dies.

.

Curious. When was this stated in canon?

 

[sphagnum]

Curious. When was this stated in canon?

Tarkin.

 

[Cross-Section]

From the Wookieepedia "Canon" article on the Republic (which lists Tarkin as a source):

About one thousand years before the onslaught of the Clone Wars, the dark age of the galaxy came to an end. The Sith, an ancient order of malevolent Force-practitioners, were defeated and driven into hiding, but the then galactic government, known as the "Old Republic" also fell. Following the collapse of that government and a full-scale war, a number of solar systems united, founding a successor state: the Galactic Republic. As its governing body, the newly reorganized government established the Galactic Senate, the members of which were elected to represent their systems. The Republic's capital was installed on the planet of Coruscant, which had already several thousands of years of existence at the time. The Republic's head of state, the Supreme Chancellor, was elected by and from the senators.

In comparison, Legends worked around Palpatine's "thousand year" line in AOTC by having the Ruusan Reformations do very much what the Canon article alludes to: Radically changing the structure of the Republic to the effect that it was almost a completely new political and military entity.

 

[The Elite]

Tarkin.

I really need to get around to this book.

 

[sphagnum]

Yeah it's not entirely clear, but when taking Tarkin and TCW into account it seems like what happened is that some really long time ago the core worlds formed "The Republic", which during the time of TCW the people referred to as "the Old Republic". There's no indication that the Old Republic ruled the entire galaxy, as it's not until after the Sith are defeated that the term Galactic Republic begins to be used. The Sith and the Jedi fought numerous wars with each other using superweapons powered by kyber crystals. Eventually the Sith conquered the galaxy more or less and during the war when the Old Republic fell the Mandalorians raided the Jedi Temple and stole the darksaber. Eventually the Sith were defeated, with Bane being the only survivor and establishing the Rule of Two, and following the collapse of the Sith's rule the entire galaxy was united in the Galactic Republic. Somewhere along the line the Zygerrians also had a slaving empire.

Following the collapse of the Galactic Republic, people started to refer to that as the Old Republic as well, although it's not certain if that means that people saw the Republic and the Galactic Republic as one continuous body that was reassembled after its initial defeat against the Sith or if they just started using the term to refer to the Galactic Republic.

 

[iosefe]

so...the old republic was a thing in canon at least according to that

this still isn't a contradiction to the KotOR timelines yet. the only thing that might confuse some is saying coruscant wasn't a capital until the Galactic republic, though it oesn't say it wasn't a capital of the Old Republic

 

[The Elite]

so...the old republic was a thing in canon at least according to that

this still isn't a contradiction to the KotOR timelines yet. the only thing that might confuse some is saying coruscant wasn't a capital until the Galactic republic, though it oesn't say it wasn't a capital of the Old Republic

I think I am just going to avoid the mental gymnastics and deal with the fact that it's not canon unless it's officially brought back in.

 

[Liquidsnake]

How about some actual spoilers instead of people arguing about the EU? Not like we are ever going to see another old Legends book or anything ever again anyway.

Some info on Maisie Richardon-Seller's character

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/s...aracters-name-plus-the-spoilers-significance/

Sounds awesome.

 

[iosefe]

I think I am just going to avoid the mental gymnastics and deal with the fact that it's not canon unless it's officially brought back in.

yeah...it's a stretch anyway. we'll just leave it at the Tarkin excerpt, there was an Old Republic that fell 1k BBY replaced with the Galactic Republic that proceeded until 19 BBY. we no no fine details other than that they existed

i'm just hoping a little too hard

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Giant information dump about Leia's role in the movie is dropped

A couple heads turn.

Everyone immediately starts arguing about canon and videogames again.

 

[Cheebo]

Giant information dump about Leia's role in the movie is dropped

A couple heads turn.

Everyone immediately starts arguing about canon and videogames again.

Weird thing is there shouldn't be any reason to argue about canon or video games. Lucasfilm hit the reset button last April. Everything other than the 6 films and Clone Wars was no longer canon. Everything after that date is canon. They made that as clear as humanly possible. It's done at this point. There is no wiggle room in this.

Are you talking about something released prior to Mid-2014 that isn't TCW + the 6 films? It isn't canon. Hooray, problem solved. It's so easy.

The part I don't get is people having a hard time accepting something they like not being canon. Something being not canon should have no impact on whether you like it or not.

I am a pretty big fan of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan despite it not being part of the canonical Star Wars universe.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The part that's weird is the idea that Leia's proud of her counterweapon. a KAMIKAZE counterweapon. Why would she be proud of that? Maybe it's unmanned? That'd make the kamikaze part of it seem inaccurate, though, wouldn't it?

Han's last words to Leia are "I'll hurry back," huh? Maybe they're said sarcastically?

 

[Cheebo]

The part that's weird is the idea that Leia's proud of her counterweapon. a KAMIKAZE counterweapon. Why would she be proud of that? Maybe it's unmanned? That'd make the kamikaze part of it seem inaccurate, though, wouldn't it?

Han's last words to Leia are "I'll hurry back," huh? Maybe they're said sarcastically?

I can see Han not thinking he'll find himself in a situation he is going to die. He has been on quite a few adventures and came away from it. Especially since it sounds like he says it at the Rebel/Republic base prior to the actual final mission of sorts.

 

[Cross-Section]

Weird thing is there shouldn't be any reason to argue about canon or video games. Lucasfilm hit the reset button last April. Everything other than the 6 films and Clone Wars was no longer canon. Everything after that date is canon. They made that as clear as humanly possible. It's done at this point. There is no wiggle room in this.

Are you talking about something released prior to Mid-2014 that isn't TCW + the 6 films? It isn't canon. Hooray, problem solved. It's so easy.

The part I don't get is people having a hard time accepting something they like not being canon. Something being not canon should have no impact on whether you like it or not.

I am a pretty big fan of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan despite it not being part of the canonical Star Wars universe.

I feel like we're arguing more about the possibility that certain non-canon media, like SWTOR, may be brought into canon. It's happened with certain motifs from Legends (first thing that comes to mind, oddly enough, is the Base Delta Zero initiative being referenced in Rebels), but I don't believe that the Story Group will go through the trouble of integrating an entire game like Old Republic. From what I've heard, the Sith lore being introduced by TFA would conflict heavily with SWTOR's depiction of them anyway.

Also, is anyone else starting to burn out on spoilers at this point? Knowing about a core plot twist is one thing, but I have the distinct feeling that MSW will have the entire plot of the film out in the clear in the next few months, at the rate he's going.

edit: Though, speaking of integrating the EU, that Kamikaze weapon sounds suspiciously familiar...

 

[Cheebo]

I feel like we're arguing more about the possibility that certain non-canon media, like SWTOR, may be brought into canon. It's happened with certain motifs from Legends (first thing that comes to mind, oddly enough, is the Base Delta Zero initiative being referenced in Rebels), but I don't believe that the Story Group will go through the trouble of integrating an entire game like Old Republic. From what I've heard, the Sith lore being introduced by TFA would conflict heavily with SWTOR's depiction of them anyway.

Yeah, they point blank said they won't be bringing in any Legends media fully in. Elements of Legends media can be reused in new material and be made canon. But already released full content is and will remain Legends.

KOTOR 1 and 2 will never be canon, but new material can reuse stuff from it and make those elements canon.

But that should have no impact on whether you like them or not. Hoping for old Legends media to be canon is a fools errand. Just like them for what they are.

 

[B.K.]

I hate that there are going to be more superweapons. It seems like too much of a retread of the Death Star from the Original Trilogy. I hope there aren't any more superweapons in any future episodes after Episode IX.

 

[LastNac]

TOR already contradicts canon because canon states that the Galactic Republic did not exist until around 1000 BBY. TOR is pretty obviously just the last part from Legends that's holding over until it dies.

From the Wookieepedia "Canon" article on the Republic (which lists Tarkin as a source):


In comparison, Legends worked around Palpatine's "thousand year" line in AOTC by having the Ruusan Reformations do very much what the Canon article alludes to: Radically changing the structure of the Republic to the effect that it was almost a completely new political and military entity.

Yeah it's not entirely clear, but when taking Tarkin and TCW into account it seems like what happened is that some really long time ago the core worlds formed "The Republic", which during the time of TCW the people referred to as "the Old Republic". There's no indication that the Old Republic ruled the entire galaxy, as it's not until after the Sith are defeated that the term Galactic Republic begins to be used. The Sith and the Jedi fought numerous wars with each other using superweapons powered by kyber crystals. Eventually the Sith conquered the galaxy more or less and during the war when the Old Republic fell the Mandalorians raided the Jedi Temple and stole the darksaber. Eventually the Sith were defeated, with Bane being the only survivor and establishing the Rule of Two, and following the collapse of the Sith's rule the entire galaxy was united in the Galactic Republic. Somewhere along the line the Zygerrians also had a slaving empire.

Following the collapse of the Galactic Republic, people started to refer to that as the Old Republic as well, although it's not certain if that means that people saw the Republic and the Galactic Republic as one continuous body that was reassembled after its initial defeat against the Sith or if they just started using the term to refer to the Galactic Republic.

Yeah, I'm not detecting a contradiction, especially since the Darth Bane books referenced a restart to the timeline years ago. It's always been common knowledge that there was a conflict, hell, Lucas contradicted himself with the whole "For over a thousand generations/ This Republic which has stood for a thousand years line."

There is no reason why that story can't be brought into "canon." Hell, considering "The Old Republic" era is the second most popular Star Wars time period behind the OT its no surprise that it is still getting content left and right, with 2015 saying "wait until you see what we have coming for you next year. Next year is our big year." Actually, it is pretty telling how careful LucasFilm has been in relation to that era, they certainly haven't burnt any story bridges like they have with these new movies and post-ROTJ.

TCW referenced The Old Republic as it was referenced before. TCW established Manaan and Selkath. Korriban is still around and looked spot on like it did in KotOR. Bane's origin is effectively the same in that we know he existed in an era where the Sith devoured themselves by spreading power to thin.

ly

so...the old republic was a thing in canon at least according to that

this still isn't a contradiction to the KotOR timelines yet. the only thing that might confuse some is saying coruscant wasn't a capital until the Galactic republic, though it oesn't say it wasn't a capital of the Old Republic

yeah...it's a stretch anyway. we'll just leave it at the Tarkin excerpt, there was an Old Republic that fell 1k BBY replaced with the Galactic Republic that proceeded until 19 BBY. we no no fine details other than that they existed

i'm just hoping a little too hard

If only, just so the sake that we wouldn't be having this argument.

Although in hindsight, I am glad that these weren't in the episode. I'm so tired of everything needing to be connected to principal characters or big events. It makes the universe feel small.

 

[LastNac]

Because it was an expensive MMO that launched shortly before the hammer went down. If you read anything into that you are mistaken. Del Rey editors have stated pretty adamantly LucasBooks/Del Rey will not be making any Legends media, that that is done. Everything is to be canon to keep things simple and straight-forward. It's time to forget about the EU, it was obvious the EU was dead the second they announced Episode VII back in 2012. It's off in it's retirement home with the old Marvel Comics with it's green rabbit.

I mean the idea that they would say "Here is a new book, I know the film everyone saw that made 1-2 billion dollars has Han dead and Chewie alive but in this universe Han is alive and Chewie is alive. Have fun!" That's comic book level stuff.

Not to mention Leland Chee stated after the Legends decision that Star Wars is not like a comic book franchise, there aren't multiple universes/timelines. There is just one. And the Legends decision was made in part to maintain a single continuity and timeline. It's gone LastNac, everything points to that.

Disclaimer: I like you Cheebo, I do, but...


That said, it feels like you have had this agenda the entire time to almost gleefully remind everyone about the removal of 30 years worth of characters and stories, even in threads where the "canon" status of something isn't even being discussed. It's kind of obnoxious, we get it, you didn't like it, you don't need to constantly assert the fact that "your team won" after all this time.

And yes, the same criticisms can be lobbied at me, I know they can. That said, the times where I have speculated I have been using speculation, and therefore dont need to be reminded for the 30th time that my ideas have no basis. I get it man, I got where your coming from.

As for the whole ordeal, listen, I lived through the whole "New 52." I know what it's like to see fiction cast out, but at the same time I also know what its like to see all that shit thrown back in. Chewie is alive, this is known, but that doesn't automatically mean that we wont get Revan, Malak, or Kyle Katarn in some fashion.

At this point, its not about "one or the other," its about both of them blending and really getting back to this "Movies+ Saga" that we honestly already had before this scuffle.

KOTOR 1 and 2 will never be canon, but new material can reuse stuff from it and make those elements canon.
But that should have no impact on whether you like them or not. Hoping for old Legends media to be canon is a fools errand. Just like them for what they are.

Given that it was a collection of choice based RPG's, they were never going to be "canon" in their entirety. Obviously though, characters like Revan will have a full history. They will take the events, not the choices, just as it was before.

Here is the problem with the whole "theyre arent taking it away from you" rhetoric that I have heard used consistently throughout this whole ordeal. The truth is, in a way, yes they are. People aren't pissed about it because their copy of KotOR automatically "became one with the Force," their pissed that this cancels out the likes of another KotOR to finally finish that story, or Republic Commando 2, or Jedi Knight 4, etc. They've taken away the future.

Perhaps also, the greatest bullshit Disney and this story group has done so far concerns the collectors circle. Hasbro has been forbidden to re-release Legends figures. I'm sorry, but that is fucking stupid(and its particularly personal because I don't want to pay $100 for a Jacen figure). What is the danger here? That people are so fragile mentaility taht they can't discern the movie characters from Legends characters? Hell, the majority of people buying Star Wars figures anyway wont know who they are, let alone that there is a character contradiction.

I'm sorry, but its not as simple as "Just like them for what they are." It is a problem, maybe not for you, but it has effected a huge community of fans out there. I just wanted to get that off my chest once and for all.


Anyway...

Superweapon, huh?

Also there doesnt seem to be any indication that

Spoiler

the Solo's had kids.