TheKaeptain
Banned
I have a feeling the reaction to Han's death is going to upset nerds but break the hearts of the normal fans that aren't insane.
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
It's cool if they're going for a western knight theme instead of the samurai theme. It shows that it's a new era for the Jedi.
The Elite
BOSS
I don't know.
This sounds good to me. Sounds like a Star Wars movie.
I think it's a pretty good summation of the call sheets and artwork sprinkled with a little bit of educated theories.
GentlemanCrow
Member
Turns out writing a Star Wars story isn't hard. George just made it look hard.
brandonh83
Banned
Writing is hard.
GentlemanCrow
Member
It can be.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I just can't wait for another summer blockbuster about a group of people trying to get a mcguffin from one place to another while the bad guys chase them.
brandonh83
Banned
There are varying degrees of difficulty but even something like Star Wars requires the ability to structure a story, themes, characters, their arcs, pacing, dialogue, etc. If you're saying it was easier to write A New Hope than Braveheart you're probably correct, but it still takes a truckload of creativity and talent to write this sort of thing. Even if you don't like the script.
If you ask me, the pressure to follow up the originals with a new story and characters must have been palpable.
Especially when you just retread the original trilogy.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Yeah, I always expected it to happen if Harrison was returning. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise especially with Kasdan returning to write.
Kasdan and Ford both wanted to kill Han in Return of the Jedi but Lucas vetoed it. I can't believe anyone will be surprised when it happens.
TheKaeptain
Banned
When he was happy about the movie I knew he was getting his wish.
Han's death would always be controversial, just like Chewie's was, even though his death was 1000x better than what's in that article.
His death is more tragic, considering he'd just found out that his long lost children(or daughter) were still alive, but he dies without doing anything meaningful.
He doesn't protect or help the heroes in any way besides tagging along; he's just killed off.
It's not like they came up with the idea, approached him and he vetoed it. Lucas simply changed his mind. Not the right call, if you ask me, but it was his character and his story.
His death is more tragic, considering he'd just found out that his long lost children(or daughter) were still alive, but he dies without doing anything meaningful.
He doesn't protect or help the heroes in any way besides tagging along; he's just killed off.
Kasdan, Ford and Kurtz wanted it, but the idea came from Lucas himself and the original outline they had.
It's not like they came up with the idea, approached him and he vetoed it. Lucas simply changed his mind. Not the right call, if you ask me, but it was his character and his story.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
As an update - Slashfilm reported on this collection of rumors as well, except Ethan Anderton added that while about 90% of it is dead on, there's a big detail that the writer guessed incorrectly on.
After some twitter probing, he essentially confirmed that Han will die, and Luke is only seen in a flashback, and at the very end of the film. Which means it's pretty likely that the guess about Ren and Rey being brother/sister is the big detail that the synopsis has wrong.
Which makes it a lot more likely that Ren is Han & Leia's kid, and Rey is Luke's.
Which actually fills in a lot of blanks regarding character motivations and such. Or at least my speculation to that end does, heh.
After some twitter probing, he essentially confirmed that Han will die, and Luke is only seen in a flashback, and at the very end of the film. Which means it's pretty likely that the guess about Ren and Rey being brother/sister is the big detail that the synopsis has wrong.
Which makes it a lot more likely that Ren is Han & Leia's kid, and Rey is Luke's.
Which actually fills in a lot of blanks regarding character motivations and such. Or at least my speculation to that end does, heh.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I've been saying this for awhile. Luke's going to get his "I am your father" moment in the second film. I bet Luke thinks his daughter died in the Jedi Academy attack and just leaves.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm thinking the "I am your father" moment is the end of this film, actually.
I'm wondering if the reason Rey thinks she's Rey and not Kira Skywalker is because Luke improved on hiding his daughter over how Ben/Yoda hid him. What makes him go into exile? The temple raid. Who helps raid the temple? His nephew, who falls to the darkside via hero worship of his father. Luke's a character that's known for feeling like the best thing to do to keep his family safe is to bail out, remove himself from their presence as a means to keep them safe.
I think Ren approaching Rey has something to do with their familial relationship. I think the amount of time Rey is spending with Leia and Han means they're not her parents, otherwise scenes would play out way differently. I think the vision Maz shares with her shakes her so much because that memory is completely suppressed - she never knew she was there, or she's forced herself to forget (or... Luke pulled a Professor X, and hid that memory from her - what better way to hide a kid in plain sight than to give her a completely different name and wipe the memories that link her back to him).
Once that memory is shared, she starts to wake up (the force is awakening in her. eh? EH?) and now she has to choose her destiny. Her being directly descended from Luke is what gives her the power to overcome Kylo with zero training whatsoever, and it's why she recieves his saber at the end, and goes to visit him, because she's chosen her destiny finally.
If my speculation is even kinda correct, then The Force Awakens looks like it's a movie that starts like Star Wars, has a middle like the Empire Strikes Back, and an ending like Return of the Jedi's *could* have been, but with a happy version of "I am your father" as the cliffhanger ending.
I don't know, this theory always reminds of a quote by Lucas:
"LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."
I know he said they ignored everything he gave them for the sequel trilogy, but Kathleen Kennedy said they're still using his outline, though with changes that "are natural in any development process" or something like that.
If they're still using portions of his outline, I think Luke not getting married was a key aspect in his version.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There are elements of Lucas' stuff in the film, there's no way there can't be. But that Vanity Fair article sure as hell made it sound like Lucas' notes got jettisoned more or less halfway through Arndt's tenure, and Arndt's notes weren't used all that much once Abrams/Kasdan completely took over.
Plus Luke doesn't have to be married to have a kid.
For all we know, Han & Leia never got married, either. They don't seem happily married in this film, at least.
TheKaeptain
Banned
This sounds like it could work. It hinges on what is said between them at the very end.
I have to say something. There is no reason for Luke to not be with someone. He understands how important family and the bonds shared by them are to an individual.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I would like a Star Wars movie where all of the important people in the galaxy don't turn out to be related
You'll get that with the anthology films. But the saga films are about the family and always will be. Kennedy has already confirmed that the sequel trilogy is a "generational" story about family ties.
I agree that Rey is almost certainly Luke's daughter. I thought she'd been Kylo Ren's sister before but Han seems to connect more with Finn and the spoilers never seem to indicate that there's anything in particular about her reaction to Han's death. Only Chewie seems to flip out.
The thing I'm most interested in out of all TFA information is who THE SEVEN and THE CLAN are.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Star Wars films are about the Skywalker family and the people in their lives. Most sagas follow one family or friends of the heroes.
The saga films are about the skywalkers. It's like wanting a Batman film about something other than Batman.
That's what the anthology films are for.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
IDK the synopsis sounds pretty cool to me. It did away with my biggest fear, that the old people might overshadow the new heroes, but looks like that might not be the case. I mean Luke and Han don't even share screen time, lol. I guess you could complain how it looks like a Star Wars Greatest Hits edition "Lets do some McGuffin chasing, droid selling, and scrappy heroes boarding the Millennium Falcon on this desert planet here, some Darth Vader weird family relationship/lightsaber battles there, big NuEmpire Superweapon aerial dogfights mixed with Han leading the good guys on the ground to disable a shield generator for old's time sake, etc" but uh...fuck it. I mean, that shit worked. You're making a new "comeback" Star Wars movie, you wanna lean a bit on the safe side and do the things people like about the franchise.
Obviously we don't have any of Kasdan's dialog, or Williams' music, or any performances and scenes and shit, but I LIKE the idea of a story this thing is giving me. I like the new heroes teaming up with Han and Chewie, I like Finn kinda fumbles around a bit but he still holds his own(shooting TIE fighters, saving Chewie, presumably taking out that generator, not getting totally bopped by Kylo Ren at the end, etc). I like the idea of Rey as the main protagonist and the dramatic spine of the film, the capable loner who learns the power of comrades and accepts her destiny as a Jedi and all that good shit. I like Finn having his own antagonist in Captain Phasma as the rogue Stormtrooper vs the big badass Stormtrooper, as Ren's Sith Lord status vs Rey's awakening Jedi abilities. I like that it seems full of varied locales and weird alien gangs and cattle and fuckin' PIRATE CASTLES with all those dudes in amazing real costumes and ASSAULTS ON THE EVIL IMPERIAL SNOW CASTLE and Dark Secret Jedi Academy massacres. It feels like it gonna have plenty of character, incident, action, dramatic reveals, and a big climax that makes it feel like a complete story but obviously leaves a lot open for the sequels.
So the idea of the movie sounds like a lot of fun!
Obviously we don't have any of Kasdan's dialog, or Williams' music, or any performances and scenes and shit, but I LIKE the idea of a story this thing is giving me. I like the new heroes teaming up with Han and Chewie, I like Finn kinda fumbles around a bit but he still holds his own(shooting TIE fighters, saving Chewie, presumably taking out that generator, not getting totally bopped by Kylo Ren at the end, etc). I like the idea of Rey as the main protagonist and the dramatic spine of the film, the capable loner who learns the power of comrades and accepts her destiny as a Jedi and all that good shit. I like Finn having his own antagonist in Captain Phasma as the rogue Stormtrooper vs the big badass Stormtrooper, as Ren's Sith Lord status vs Rey's awakening Jedi abilities. I like that it seems full of varied locales and weird alien gangs and cattle and fuckin' PIRATE CASTLES with all those dudes in amazing real costumes and ASSAULTS ON THE EVIL IMPERIAL SNOW CASTLE and Dark Secret Jedi Academy massacres. It feels like it gonna have plenty of character, incident, action, dramatic reveals, and a big climax that makes it feel like a complete story but obviously leaves a lot open for the sequels.
So the idea of the movie sounds like a lot of fun!
I do like it both ways. And I hope the numbered films stay more fantasy and the anthology ones slightly more sci-fi. I mean I would love some bit of dialogue in Rogue One about a pilot who doesn't want to depart from his Z-95 in favor of a new T-65 for example. And since there are no force users involved it does have me excited.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
yes, with this being a very general overview, you can change a few names around and it could easily be a Toiken fantasy adventure. Jedis for Knights, the Force for Magic, ships are now horses, big climax is a Helms Deep kinda thing, still got ya gang of thieves and bounty hunters, Mysterious Exposition Lady who pushes the plot forward, ya fantasy McGuffin chasing and talks of destiny, etc.
I also like the sense that they're planning ahead, that they're taken advantage of the total freedom they have. Like Han's so prominent for 2/3rds of the story cuz they know they're gonna kill him at the end. They didn't wheel out Luke Skywalker to get all buddy with the old gang, they got a new role for him in the sequel. They got some cool villains, some interesting plot strands, a new young cast of characters they're building around. It works as one satisfactory ending, but they're really planing this story and universe out, for the first time in franchise history.
What is so exciting about this direction for Luke is the built up set up. When Luke finally ignites his saber for the first time in Episode VIII it's going to be worth the setup we get throughout Force Awakens.
I suspect we may get a Luke vs Andy Serkis showdown in 8 or 9. Master vs Master.
I suspect we may get a Luke vs Andy Serkis showdown in 8 or 9. Master vs Master.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I just wonder why the Lightsaber is so important to be the movie-driving McGuffin. I mean, Death Stars plans are simple to understand, they reveal the weakness of the Planet-Destroying Superweapon, so of course the Rebels and Empire both want it. Ok, that works.
Now why the fuck are they chasing around a lightsaber lol. Not just any lightsaber, but specifically THIS lightsaber
that, IDK, dropped out the Bespin chutes and found its way to Rakku like a dirty penny. What the significance?
Now why the fuck are they chasing around a lightsaber lol. Not just any lightsaber, but specifically THIS lightsaber
that, IDK, dropped out the Bespin chutes and found its way to Rakku like a dirty penny. What the significance?
Grover Cleveland
Member
I just wonder why the Lightsaber is so important to be the movie-driving McGuffin. I mean, Death Stars plans are simple to understand, they reveal the weakness of the Planet-Destroying Superweapon, so of course the Rebels and Empire both want it. Ok, that works.
Now why the fuck are they chasing around a lightsaber lol. Not just any lightsaber, but specifically THIS lightsaber
that, IDK, dropped out the Bespin chutes and found its way to Rakku like a dirty penny. What the significance?
It was built by Anakin, and carried by two generations of Skywalkers...so is a symbol of power (real or imagined)? idk
I imagine we'll discover its significance to Kylo Ren the same time we learn why he seemingly has such an affinity for Vader.
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
why do they want that stupid blue lightsaber anyways everyone knows green is cooler
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Well, that's the thing about MacGuffin's: They're not important for any other reason than they're important. The Death Star plans weren't a MacGuffin, for the fact that you knew why everyone wanted them, and when the good guys got them - it was used. And the usage of the Plans led to the entire final act of the film. A MacGuffin remains unexplained and unused, and is usually not placed where it's supposed to be until the very end. It exists solely for the acquiring.
That said, while Luke's lightsaber appears to be the closest thing to a real MacGuffin in a Star Wars movie yet, It's importance seems to be that it contains co-ordinates to where Luke's exiled himself. But maybe Kylo Ren only wants it because it's yet another Sith artifiact he wants to scoop up and keep for his own. Rey doesn't even want it, and yet it's only until she actually decides to take it that she gets to find Luke and begin her journey.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Well, I'm thinking about that line in there about how Kyle Ren doesn't need the lightsaber anymore after the Rey/Kira interrogation. Like perhaps the Lightsaber had the coordinates to Luke or some shit and maybe he can look in Rey's mind for clues? There must have been some information he got from her that would make him give up on that chase, and there was something he needed the lightsaber for that he doesn't need anymore.
Its unlikely, but this search for Sith artifacts sounds kinda the plot of Jedi Academy, where the brothership of magna ragnos was looking all around the galaxy for force filled places and feed on it to revive a old Sith Lord.
Maybe we will se something similar?
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I just wonder why the Lightsaber is so important to be the movie-driving McGuffin. I mean, Death Stars plans are simple to understand, they reveal the weakness of the Planet-Destroying Superweapon, so of course the Rebels and Empire both want it. Ok, that works.
Now why the fuck are they chasing around a lightsaber lol. Not just any lightsaber, but specifically THIS lightsaber
that, IDK, dropped out the Bespin chutes and found its way to Rakku like a dirty penny. What the significance?
Yes, it's just not as convincing or easy to sell.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
No matter they do in future episodes, I think its for the best Luke not physically be in Episode 7 much, cuz like he said he kinda overshadows everything, including the new heroes and its suppose to be their story. Since so much of it focuses around Luke's lightsaber and whatever dark secrets are revealed around the mid-point, he kinda hangs over the proceedings anyway, but we probably won't even see his face until the end with that father-daughter reunion. This also frees up the "Old Hero from the original trilogy helps the new heroes" spot for Han, who seems to be a very active role in the action and the drama before his death. And now that he's gone, Luke can take that spot, lol.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If he knows that Luke is Rey's father, he's probably like "Fuck the sword. If this doesn't bring him out of hiding, nothing will."
Thus presenting Luke with a similar sort of trap as in Empire Strikes Back. Except this time, he doesn't come out of hiding and rush headlong into a trap that will fuck things up for everyone, himself included.
Luke's definitely not going to survive this trilogy. I doubt any of the original trio will. And we're already never going to get a scene where all three of them are in the frame at the same time.
Red Mage
Member
Eh, I could see the twins surviving. Luke is less likely than Leia. If this trilogy starts killing off all of the old heroes, the general fandom won't be too happy with it. Han makes sense, and Luke going Obi-Wan works, but Leia would just come off as mean spirited.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't think the general fandom matters anywhere near as much a storytelling factor as the general fandom thinks it does. If it makes sense narratively, it's going to happen.
Eventually, the old guard has to get out of the way of the new one. It happened in the Original Trilogy with regards to the prequel-era characters. Obi-Wan died in Star Wars, Yoda & Vader died in Jedi.
I'm guessing they might do it in a flashback.
TheKaeptain
Banned
I think part 9 will be
Luke vs Sith Lord
Rey vs Ren
Finn vs Chrome
Leia is dead in 8 along with Chewy, R2, and C3 after they get taken out by the Sith Lord.
Luke vs Sith Lord
Rey vs Ren
Finn vs Chrome
Leia is dead in 8 along with Chewy, R2, and C3 after they get taken out by the Sith Lord.
Red Mage
Member
Except originally they were all going to come back to life. = P (But yeah, I still say Leia remaining Queen or whatever would work)
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm sure a lot of fan's hearts gon be broken by that last sentence, but I'm all for avoiding the nostalgia get-together. I was wondering how they were gonna have both the old heroes and the new heroes in the same 2 hour frame, welp the old gang never gets back together! Out with the old, in with the new, I say.
In the abstract, I like how dark a lot of aspects of the plot seems. RotJ's ending made it seemed like everybody lived happily ever after and there was no more drama, but that's apparently not the case. Village massacres, Jedi academy slayings, dark secrets, kids turning evil and killing their fathers, rebel fleets getting wiped out, fleeing from pirate castles as the First Order attacks, etc. I mean, I'm sure its full of jokes, rousing John Williams cues, exciting action, and budding camaraderie between the heroes, but its got some real dramatic stakes. The villains aint those toothless forgettable mothafuckas from Guardians of the Galaxy; they got presence, menace, and motivations/dynamics they play well against the protagonists(Kylo Ren as the Sith son of Han vs Rey/Kira the emerging Jedi daugther of Luke; Captain Phasma as the badass heartless Stormtrooper commander vs Finn's sentimental and less confident character). Don't know where Poe slides into any ready-made archetypes exactly, but as the leader of the last remaining Resistance squadron, that would probably play pretty heavily on his mindset and motivations in the future installments.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
You can make it about the Skywalker family without having all these people who came together by happenstance (once again, out of the WHOLE GALAXY) just happen to be related.
I mean, im cool with it being about the Skywalker family but there are better ways of doing it. LOTR/the hobbit centered around the Baggins family just fine without Gimli and smegol turning out to be frodos half brothers.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
What source have you read that Finn and Poe are related to each other, much less the Skywalker clan?
Only one of the 3 new leads is related to the Skywalker family by all indications. Not sure where you are coming from here.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Finn and Poe are the new Han and Leia.