BlueDogAnchorite
Member
I'm fine with Star Wars being both. I never got why Star Wars has to be dark all the time. It's for everyone.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
I'm fine with Star Wars being both. I never got why Star Wars has to be dark all the time. It's for everyone.
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
That's the next book I'm reading
whoa, this is really cool
TheKaeptain
Banned
Me too.
brandonh83
Banned
edit: nevermind
im saying it's a dump on the original trilogy regardless if it makes sense for this movie's purpose, even if it turns out great
it just messes with the original and it's whole arc/underlying meaning way too much for anyone to risk it
brandonh83
Banned
fuck, you caught me. I was too late =p
And, again, you're assuming that there wouldn't be a natural flow into it and that the story will lack elements that explain it. There are so many unknown quantities at this point. As in, 100%.
I think my biggest problem with the spoiler (either in determining its legitimacy or in its thematic actuality) is I just don't see that as the scene you end the first new movie on. It's just on such a whole 'nother level that it would overshadow any "positivity" or "victory" at the conclusion of the film. Empire worked because it was the middle chapter, a marginal defeat flanked by two victories.
jetpacks was yes
Member
Update from the guy who spread the rumor: http://makingstarwars.net/2014/10/h...-wars-episode-vii-remember-failure-back-cave/
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Hmmm.
Nicktendo86
Member
That's why I personally love the rumour so much. I hope it does 'take a dump' on the originals, they were made 30 years ago and since then we have all formed in our mind what the sequels would be like. I know I did anyway and I want to have something shocking, something exciting, that I can look forward to rather than be bored by a predictable story.
Does this ruin Luke's character arc? I don't think so, his story is there in the originals and whatever happens in 7 I will view as a separate story. Anakin being a whiney bitch doesn't ruin the awesome Vader for me, and neither would a bad Luke ruin the good Luke for me.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
This film is so going to be the Chrono Cross of Star Wars films.
Sounds like something JJ would do to echo the TESB.
Nicktendo86
Member
It does, doesn't it, but feels slightly odd to happen in the first film rather than the second.
The wait for this is painful!
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Maybe he absolutely wants to do it now since he isn't directing the second film.
GentlemanCrow
Member
Sounds much better, hope it's true.
Yup. Sounds like
Cyborg
dark side vision
The crew filmed some scenes around Michael Skellig island, seems like this would be the location of the "cave" or castle. Looks really cool
More images of the island:
https://www.tumblr.com/search/Skellig+Michael
How about:
The cyborg isn't actually Luke. But he has Luke's cybernetic hand which was infused with Luke's force and thus, his memories and some of his power. Which is why Cyborg-Luke can pretend to be real Luke.
pel1300
Member
This isn't Metal Gear Solid 2.....
So is Kira the lead then, and not Boyega's character? Because it seems like a scene that should belong to whoever the "new Luke" of this trilogy is.
Holy hell, that's incredible.
Yup. Sounds likeLuke is Daisey Ridley's character's ESB-styleCyborg. Real Luke is probably waiting for her outside the cave, shaking his head in disapproval.dark side vision
The crew filmed some scenes around Michael Skellig island, seems like this would be the location of the "cave" or castle. Looks really cool
More images of the island:
https://www.tumblr.com/search/Skellig+Michael
Holy hell, that's incredible.
Or is it... !? Nanomachines, midichlorians. What's the difference?
pel1300
Member
one of them is a cop out plot device...the other is a director ruining his original vision.
LegendofLex
Member
Old-ish line of discussion, but...
I actually felt that the progression of events in the PT suggests that the writers were very conscious of this distinction and were setting up the state of the Jedi in the PT as the problem that led to the downfall of the Jedi.
In the time of the PT, the Jedi believe that the Sith have been gone for a thousand years. This allows them to become complacent, which manifests itself in how they've basically become political pawns (even though they maintain a front as the "guardians of peace and justice"). The Sith are able to use this complacency to their advantage and, through Sidious's position, are able to twist their arms so they literally do become soliders. As soldiers, they are scattered about a vast galaxy-wide theater of war, which allows the puppetmaster to isolate and destroy them.
The problem is that the true purpose of the Jedi and the Force had been forgotten by the time of the PT. They had become, as you say, a "pseudo-spiritual police force with glow stick batons." That's very distinct from the "spiritual teachers" role assumed by Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT, and left them open to being both manipulated by outside powers (led into war) and misrepresented by their enemies (framed for treason--remember that the catalyst for that claim was Windu & co.'s move to arrest Palpatine).
edit: Hell, just look at the history of Christianity, which was the template for the Jedi in the first place. Started off as a movement by spiritual teachers away from the idea of retributive justice and toward a society of mercy and forgiveness, then got caught up in enforcing its aims through politics and government and has lost most of its legitimacy since.
Eh, the idea that Force sensitivity is passed down through blood was implicit from the very first film.
You have it spot on.
I see what you did there.
CitizenVectron
Member
It's a good interpretation, except for the fact that they didn't really focus on that element of their fall. It was there...but not really part of the plot. If they had focused on that then it would have been cool. Well, and also making Anakin's fall an actual tragedy instead of having him be a whiner for 2.5 movies and then just turn into a child-killer with no build-up.
LegendofLex
Member
One of the things I like best about Star Wars is that it respects its audience enough not to spell out every single lesson you're supposed to learn from the story.
That said, if there is an overarching theme of the PT, it's that the Jedi let themselves be manipulated.
Anakin's dialogue is really poorly written. I highly recommend reading the novelizations if you want to see a better execution of the vision.
Good question. Rumors are making Kira out to be the lead unless there is some dual co-lead thing going.
Haloid1177
Banned
Thought Boyega was gonna be the lead, trying to get Kira back from Luke and all. Or at least he would for be for the next two films.
brandonh83
Banned
Thinking instead of bitching.
I like you. Well done. You're in a class of your own.
pel1300
Member
we shouldn't have to do that. what matters is the movie.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Apparently Carrie Fisher has absolutely zip to do in this movie.
Bucket Mouse
Member
The very fact that you have come away from the prequels with this interpretation and GentlemanCrow came away with a totally different reading is emblematic of the problem with these films when considering them as useful backstory to the established OT. With the original films, the narrative was very explicit in painting its good guys and bad guys in broadstrokes; everything was black and white. For better or worse, there was little room for interpretation when it came to character portrayals and the majority of the audience would have had a similar reading of their motivations.
As Lucas matured as a writer and person, absorbing extra-textual influences from the EU and other prominent sci fi, he clearly wanted to infuse clever political themes into his silly Star Wars world. Make no mistake, the parameters of what constituted a Lucas-helmed Star Wars film in 1997-2005 were vastly different to those of the '70s, which is a problem when you have a strict chronology and roadmap to stick to. It's debatable whether Lucas intended to paint the Jedi as complacent incompetents (a more simple explanation is that the main heroes are dry and unlikeable because Lucas is mediocre when it comes to writing naturalistic dialogue), but the fact of the matter is that these themes, if they're there, don't rise to the surface strongly enough to leave the whole audience with no doubts. The result is a confused "backstory" which doesn't marry up tonally or thematically with the OT and a fractured fanbase.
Bucket Mouse
Member
I was about to post this. Totally ready for a female lead.
Nicktendo86
Member
Probably for the best.
It is mildly interesting that there hasnt been one rumour, location rumbling, click bait news piece at all thats said something like 'Fisher was on set' / present when theres stories about pretty much grabbing every semblence of shit down to near the catering every day on genre sites.
Marion Cobretti
Member
Kinda hard to not get hyped when everything is looking so good.
Those rumors though, definitely seems like someone is working in overdrive
Avengers 2, Star Wars, and Batman v Superman, such an amazing 12 month span of movies that is.
Those rumors though, definitely seems like someone is working in overdrive
Avengers 2, Star Wars, and Batman v Superman, such an amazing 12 month span of movies that is.
Zip: Almost nothing.
These new rumours are quite depressing, I just wanted Luke to be a grandmaster Jedi
Ben Kenobi tells Luke:
"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Empire."
To me that always sounded like they were still 100% on their path, far from corrupt when Vader betrayed their trust and helped the Empire hunt them down.
They should have been small in numbers, hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned by modern weaponry and Vader should have been THE major factor in their downfall.
In ROTS it seems Order 66 does more to kill off Jedi than Vader ever did.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
Maybe she will have a more prominent role in the next one?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
There was one Leia rumor and it didn't even involve Carrie Fisher, lol
LegendofLex
Member
Kenobi is a descendant of the time of decline, so he's an unreliable source on how the Order compares to its incarnation thousands of years before. He's obviously been able to reform himself into a hermit from his previous hero-like status, but there's no way he's going to be able to provide the audience with an objective, disconnected account of whether the Jedi have indeed represented the same ideals for hundreds of years. He's really just one of the lucky ones to survive long enough to even attempt to return to a simpler path. All he can do is pass on the traditions and knowledge he has received.
tl;dr Of course Obi-Wan believes in the Jedi's ideals. He is, after all, one of them.
Yoda, on the other hand, is actually almost a thousand years old himself. And whenever he is given the opportunity he always expressed discontent about how things are in the present, both with the state of affairs in the PT and with how obnoxiously headstrong all the Jedi we encounter in the OT are. The fact that he has eschewed technology entirely in his teachings speaks volumes to the difference between him and Obi-Wan.
As for your point about how "Vader should have been THE factor in their downfall." Maybe. But I'm fine with the original story where it's implied (in the very quote you used) that the rise of the Empire was equally significant.