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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]

S

Secret Fawful

Member
That aside, your stance on Kasdan was hyperbolic and ridiculous, just like your representation of my anxiety disorder. He wrote two or three duds, but he's responsible for more successes than failures by far and he gave you and everyone else the script for the best goddamn Star Wars movie there is.
 
L

LastNac

Member
Cheebo said:
Lucas had a lot of involvement in TESB and wrote multiple drafts. But Kasdan was the one responsible to toning down the gags and playing a lot more straight than ANH. It was a battle he tried in ROTJ but lost.
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That still makes him an "Edit-Man" though.
 
K

Kai

Member
I have a rebuttal against the rumors:

image-2.jpg
[/URL][/img]
 
S

Secret Fawful

Member
TheKaeptain said:
You're only as good as your last picture.
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Hmm. While I feel like that quote works better as a statement to be made after the fact rather than before, I can see where you're coming from.

EDIT: By the way. The reason I didn't leave GAF was because I got PM'd by people saying that eventually nobody would really care about my ridiculous breakdowns and that I could probably move on and discuss film on GAF without having to worry about anyone holding anything against me for it. I have to say I appreciate you going after me about it, because now I know they were wrong. But believe me, I already kick myself for it plenty.
 
L

LastNac

Member
adj_noun said:
Oh, Return of the Jedi could have been a heck of a lot darker. Like, Han dying and Luke possibly turning and needing Leia (there is another) to finish the job darker.
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Really wish Lucas had stuck with the notion of someone else being Luke's sister. Always felt rushed like he was tying up loose ends. Apparently the whole "sibling thing" was decided pretty late into the writing process.
 
L

LastNac

Member
I'm not down with him wearing the robe, honestly.

PT era Jedi are too uniformed in appearance.

OT was all about individualism.
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
MattyG344 said:
So there's a chance they were legit?
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IDK someone on twitter was saying they might have been just been shots JJ took before they actually ran the take.


My theory is if they were legit they were probably something to show a producers or for the cinematographer to work out light placement.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
No way they were legit, though.

No timecodes.
No Lucasfilm logo
The tagging was weird.
If they're lighting/camera tests, they're not going to cut away every three seconds for the sake of not showing the stand-in being used for blocking purposes.

Whoever made the video was under the mistaken impression that they had to hide the fact they weren't using Mark Hamill otherwise people would consider it fake, when in fact the conspicuous cutting away from the stand-in's face at the last second made it even fishier.

They probably deleted it solely because it didn't go viral like they wanted it to.
 
U

UnforgivenTwin

Member
funkypie said:
lets be honest the best lightsabre fight was the one between vader and obi one in a new hope, amazing effects too.
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Obviously choreography wise it is inferior, but emotion wise, it is far better. Also, it doesn't drag on for too long like in ROTS. I believe though, that the fight in EP.4 is better. Just my opinion. Oh and it's Obi Wan, not Obi One.
 
U

UnforgivenTwin

Member
robertsan21 said:
I hope they have not decided to change the designs of structures, costumes etc to much.
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Yeah me too. I didn't really mind the robes in the prequels, but luke's outfit in ROTJ made him look unique. I guess it would just be strange to see him in the prequel robes because it symbolizes a dead order you know?
 
B

Buddha Beam

Banned
Cheebo said:
The thing is I would worry if it was just Abrams writing this but Lawrence Kasdan is writing the script. Kasdan gets and understands the franchise and the characters of the OT. He helped define who they are and create them. He wouldn't do something this radical if it didn't make sense in context of the trilogy.


I trust in Kasdan. And he mentioned before talking about return of the jedi he was very interested in having Luke turn to the dark side and perhaps make Leia the hero. Amongst other possibilities. This is a plot Kasdan has long since contemplated.
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The way everybody talks about how he always wanted to turn Luke evil, etc, my fear would be if he sees this as his chance to finally do that... regardless whether or not it makes sense now after what ROTJ wound up being. He can contemplate it all he wants. That story path should be effectively closed off now.
 
U

UnforgivenTwin

Member
Buddha Beam said:
The way everybody talks about how he always wanted to turn Luke evil, etc, my fear would be if he sees this as his chance to finally do that... regardless whether or not it makes sense now after what ROTJ wound up being. He can contemplate it all he wants. That story path should be effectively closed off now.
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I agree. It would render it all useless. Especially his final confrontation with vader and the emperor.It just feels wrong.
 
D

Daft_Cat

Member
Tookay said:
I don't really like when people impute motives on others they don't know or understand. Or when they are so close-minded that they try to pre-empt anyone from actually explaining their motivations.

This has nothing to do with being afraid of change.

It has to everything to do with our understanding of Luke's character after watching 3 films and dealing with their legacy for 30 years. We had a pretty solid conception of his character (supplemented by the now-dead EU) that now has to be completely re-evaluated.

If it's a "bold" choice, then it's bold because it seems totally out-of-character. Now, of course and as always, the execution matters quite a bit, but the fact of the matter is that this seems to really undermine what was a solid arc for his character in OT and misses what was a pretty obvious in-character arc in the sequel trilogy (him being an Obi-Wan figure).

And, to be honest, I'm not sure how bold this is, when we've already explored the betrayal of a Skywalker turning evil in the previous trilogy.
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I'm not really speaking against everyone who dislikes it though, you know? There are a variety of reasons to dislike a plot point, and I understand your somewhat more logical approach.

I was very specifically replying to a couple of people on that page who reacted to the rumour in a pretty hyperbolic and emotional way. You might not like it when people "impute" motives onto those they don't know (It sounds like you might be taking this too seriously), but I don't like it when people vehemently dismiss something out of close-mindedness and a cloying sense of nostalgia. I don't think it's controversial to argue that many fandoms do exactly that. I guess this is more of a meta issue that has less to do with the specific rumour were talking about here, but in my view it's as good an example as any.

I'm not "ordering" people to keep an open mind, but I'm not unjustified (or alone) in being annoyed by reactionary fans. If the movie comes out, the rumour is true, and it's awful... I'll be the first to say it. The difference at that point is I'll know the full picture.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
To those who doubt they could go in that direction look how Episode VII screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan responded to this from the Return of the Jedi story sessions:
Vader sacrifices himself to take out the Emperor, and then Luke helps Vader to take off his famous helmet. And then — Luke puts on Vader's helmet himself. In the transcript of the story session with Lucas and Kasdan, Lucas says: "Luke takes his mask off. The mask is the very last thing — and then Luke puts it on and says, 'Now I am Vader.' Surprise! The ultimate twist. 'Now I will go and kill the [Rebel] fleet and I will rule the universe.'" Kasdan immediately responded, "That's what I think should happen" — but Lucas didn't actually want to go that dark because "this is for kids."
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http://io9.com/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-star-wars-ret-1383276948
 
G

GentlemanCrow

Member
S

Snaku

Banned
Cheebo said:
To those who doubt they could go in that direction look how Episode VII screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan responded to this from the Return of the Jedi story sessions:

http://io9.com/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-star-wars-ret-1383276948
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What a completely absurd twist that goes against everything the character stood and fought for over three movies. At no point is it even slightly hinted at that Luke has a dark side to him aside from that one outburst during his second fight with Vader. There is no way anybody would have bought into that turn and the OT would be no where nearly as beloved today if that's how it ended. They would have Matrix Revolutions/Spiderman 3'd it.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
In that article I like how everyone hated the idea of the Ewoks except of course Mr. Lucas.

GentlemanCrow said:
All respect to the guy but I can see why no one was sold on that. It makes no fucking sense. And regardless there is an immediacy to that turn that requires the sequel trilogy to happen directly after that revelation.
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It would only work for me if Return of the Jedi was split into more movies, but I like the idea of the dark side being so dangerous that it would turn Luke against the old order by joining the Empire. The dark side should be far more addicting and controlling than say deathsticks for example. Even a little taste should make masters like Dooku become wannabe emperors.
 
C

Cheebo

Banned
It just serves as evidence that Kasdan has been very interested in making Luke turn Sith. And with him on screenwriting duties for Episode VII it is very logical that he'd try to take it in that direction again, especially without Lucas around to tell him no like was the case in the past.

The rumors of this week fit with how Kasdan has shown he sees the franchise.
 
D

Daft_Cat

Member
I don't necessarily see it as a question of "turning to the dark side". I just wish Luke had taken a path that was more ambiguous. The whole series was a battle between light and dark, and it would've been cool to see Luke bring balance between them by falling somewhere in the middle.

I think Kasdan's original ending for Jedi was Luke leaving after Vader's death. He doesn't even stick around for the celebrations. The idea was for him to walk off into the sunset like the man with no name. He "saves" the day and fulfills the prophecy, but the journey cost him his idealism and innocence. In this version of the story, Han would have likely died as well... so the ending would have been a sad one for our main characters, despite their victory. I would have preferred it. I think it would have left audiences with more to chew on.
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
Cheebo said:
It just serves as evidence that Kasdan has been very interested in making Luke turn Sith. And with him on screenwriting duties for Episode VII it is very logical that he'd try to take it in that direction again, especially without Lucas around to tell him no like was the case in the past.

The rumors of this week fit with how Kasdan has shown he sees the franchise.
Click to expand...

The problem is Luke's arc is complete. I don't see why you're having a hard time understanding this. If Return of the Jedi never happened then, yes, this would be a good direction to take the story but Jedi happened. From this point on he has to do one of two things: become a greater hero or disappear into seclusion. That's the only growth people will accept. A turn can only work if it is shown.

Also, Star Wars is a kid's movie. The money that Disney is going to make off the merchandise is one of the reasons they bought the damn thing. Look at how fast they launched a cartoon aimed right at the sensibilities of children.

And let's not act like Disney isn't going to be breathing down the neck of anyone making this movie. It's their money making the damn thing. They handed the whole company to a person that is a product of The Lucas mindset of producing. It's Disney's vision for a new generation not Kasdan's.
 
CD'S BAR

CD'S BAR

Member
Looking at the leaked art again of the lightsaber duel, at this point could that green saber really be anyone but luke? I don't recall any rumors so far of there being other male jedi characters, and if there is one you think he'd have a green sabre too and be dressed in what could possibly be Luke's ROTJ-looking attire?

Maybe that cyborg sith guy has captured or knows of Luke's whereabouts, and tricks Ridley into thinking she'll meet Luke, then lies to her and says that he is Luke or something, then embraces her like a creep (this part could be awesome).

If Luke doesn't go evil in this though there's gotta be at least one OT character death. Maybe Luke dies like Qui-gon/Obi wan.
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
CD'S BAR said:
Looking at the leaked art again of the lightsaber duel, at this point could that green saber really be anyone but luke? I don't recall any rumors so far of there being other male jedi characters, and if there is one you think he'd have a green sabre too and be dressed in what could possibly be Luke's ROTJ-looking attire?

Maybe that cyborg sith guy has captured or knows of Luke's whereabouts, and tricks Ridley into thinking she'll meet Luke, then lies to her and says that he is Luke or something, then embraces her like a creep (this part could be awesome).

If Luke doesn't go evil in this though there's gotta be at least one OT character death. Maybe Luke dies like Qui-gon/Obi wan.
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Han's dying bro. Harrison Ford is about to get his wish.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
Snaku said:
What a completely absurd twist that goes against everything the character stood and fought for over three movies. At no point is it even slightly hinted at that Luke has a dark side to him aside from that one outburst during his second fight with Vader. There is no way anybody would have bought into that turn
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how many hints have we seen from vader that he has a light side to him?
 
B

BlueDogAnchorite

Member
Snaku said:
What a completely absurd twist that goes against everything the character stood and fought for over three movies. At no point is it even slightly hinted at that Luke has a dark side to him aside from that one outburst during his second fight with Vader. There is no way anybody would have bought into that turn and the OT would be no where nearly as beloved today if that's how it ended. They would have Matrix Revolutions/Spiderman 3'd it.
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I agree there. I'm so glad that ROTJ didn't go that route, where Luke went to the dark side at the end.

I am fine with them going with that twist in the new trilogy only if it's written well.
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
Moff said:
how many hints have we seen from vader that he has a light side to him?
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This is a dumb argument and has nothing to do with this rumor. The rumor is about Luke who is a different person than Anakin. A much stronger and spiritual person than his father. Luke was able to confront the Dark side and reject it unlike Vader. Luke is an inherently good person.
 
CD'S BAR

CD'S BAR

Member
Maybe they'll retcon the force ghost thing and explain it as Luke just being completely insane. There's your dark side hints.
 
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