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Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising

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S

sphagnum

Banned
I'm wondering if the Fulcrum who recruited Wedge, according to Aftermath, is Ahsoka or if it's someone else (probably Kallus) using the title.
 
T

TrueBlue

Member
Dark hair suits Sabine.

Seeing Wedge will be cool. I think they did well by Leia last season, so hopefully things will fall the same way for Wedge.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
SpaceWolf said:
Why does Wedge seem to be like, seventeen here? We're only three or four years from the events of New Hope!
Click to expand...

In the old EU Wedge was 21 during the Battle of Yavin. I don't see why they'd change his age for the new canon so he's like 19 in Rebels.
 
G

Geist-

Member
I thought they reason TIE pilots wore those suits was because the cockpits were depressurized...

Anyway, saw that Kallus reveal a mile away.
 
S

Sayers

Member
Decent episode but I couldn't help but think that this is another perfect example of why they really need to make these episodes multi part so they can let the story breathe. Take some time and show us Sabine integrating into the academy and use the opportunity to explain why she left the Empire the first time. Let's see her interacting with the other cadets, picking out the ones who look open to recruitment and then gaining their trust. As much as I enjoy the show, it's frustrating watching them just fucking sprint through these stories. It is no coincidence that the best episodes have been the 40 minute season premieres and finales.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Sayers said:
Decent episode but I couldn't help but think that this is another perfect example of why they really need to make these episodes multi part so they can let the story breathe. Take some time and show us Sabine integrating into the academy and use the opportunity to explain why she left the Empire the first time. Let's see her interacting with the other cadets, picking out the ones who look open to recruitment and then gaining their trust. As much as I enjoy the show, it's frustrating watching them just fucking sprint through these stories. It is no coincidence that the best episodes have been the 40 minute season premieres and finales.
Click to expand...

It really starts to feel silly at this point.
I understand not wanting super deep complex longform arcs but there is absolutely no reason something simple like this episode couldn't be spaced out.
 
T

Tapejara

Member
Sayers said:
Decent episode but I couldn't help but think that this is another perfect example of why they really need to make these episodes multi part so they can let the story breathe. Take some time and show us Sabine integrating into the academy and use the opportunity to explain why she left the Empire the first time. Let's see her interacting with the other cadets, picking out the ones who look open to recruitment and then gaining their trust. As much as I enjoy the show, it's frustrating watching them just fucking sprint through these stories. It is no coincidence that the best episodes have been the 40 minute season premieres and finales.
Click to expand...

I think the problem with these single episode stories is that they take away any sense of urgency from the plot. We're three seasons in now, and the only episodes that typically have a huge impact on the story are the premieres and finales (which, like you said, are also the only forty minute episodes). We know by the end of the episode the Rebels are going to save the day and everyone will come out unscathed. Events that happen in these episodes don't tend to shape the rest of the series in ways the premieres and finales do. It's entirely possible that if they included more multi-episode story arcs that we'd still be in the same situation; but we'd probably get a better idea of the characters are shaped by their experiences rather than just seeing the Rebels complete a mission for the umpteenth time.

I sound like I'm being harsh, but I do enjoy the show. I just wish there's was a bit more to the stories than what we're being given.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
Three episodes in and I'm not totally bored yet! Could it be? Is season 3 when they finally have their shit together?

Only thing I'm worried about is lack of Thrawn. You cant introduce him and then not use him until the finale. He's just got to have a presence in the season.
 
L

Lifejumper

Member
SillyNonsense said:
Three episodes in and I'm not totally bored yet! Could it be? Is season 3 when they finally have their shit together?

Only thing I'm worried about is lack of Thrawn. You cant introduce him and then not use him until the finale. He's just got to have a presence in the season.
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Hes in the next episode.
 
A

abundant

Member
Sayers said:
Decent episode but I couldn't help but think that this is another perfect example of why they really need to make these episodes multi part so they can let the story breathe. Take some time and show us Sabine integrating into the academy and use the opportunity to explain why she left the Empire the first time. Let's see her interacting with the other cadets, picking out the ones who look open to recruitment and then gaining their trust. As much as I enjoy the show, it's frustrating watching them just fucking sprint through these stories. It is no coincidence that the best episodes have been the 40 minute season premieres and finales.
Click to expand...

Agreed, it's what made Clone Wars a really good show. Their later season would consist of 4 or 5 multi part episodes with a few one and done episodes sprinkled in.
 
S

Septimus Prime

Member
It's totally possible to have good, serialized episodes in twenty minutes. JLU, Young Justice, Spectacular Spider-Man, and even pre-Loeb Avengers EMH all pull it off. Batman: The Brave and the Bold even fits it all into its 1-minute episode openers. I'm sure Rebels can do it, too, if it wants to. Maybe they don't want to, though, so viewers can jump into any random episode and know what's generally going on.
 
A

abundant

Member
Septimus Prime said:
It's totally possible to have good, serialized episodes in twenty minutes. JLU, Young Justice, Spectacular Spider-Man, and even pre-Loeb Avengers EMH all pull it off. Batman: The Brave and the Bold even fits it all into its 1-minute episode openers. I'm sure Rebels can do it, too, if it wants to. Maybe they don't want to, though, so viewers can jump into any random episode and know what's generally going on.
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Not saying you can't, but if they're content on only having the Season Premieres and Finales push the main plot forward, then having several multi part standalone episodes would improve things. It'd let stories, like the one they told last night, have more room to breathe instead of rushing things like they do now.
 
S

Sayers

Member
SpaceWolf said:
So I guess Vader just flat out gave up in his mission to hunt down all these cats, huh?
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In the season premiere, Tarkin said that Vader had "dealt with the insurgency's Jedi leadership". I guess Ezra and Kanan don't qualify as much of a threat compared to Ahsoka.

Or the personal time thing.

Tapejara said:
I think the problem with these single episode stories is that they take away any sense of urgency from the plot. We're three seasons in now, and the only episodes that typically have a huge impact on the story are the premieres and finales (which, like you said, are also the only forty minute episodes). We know by the end of the episode the Rebels are going to save the day and everyone will come out unscathed. Events that happen in these episodes don't tend to shape the rest of the series in ways the premieres and finales do. It's entirely possible that if they included more multi-episode story arcs that we'd still be in the same situation; but we'd probably get a better idea of the characters are shaped by their experiences rather than just seeing the Rebels complete a mission for the umpteenth time.

I sound like I'm being harsh, but I do enjoy the show. I just wish there's was a bit more to the stories than what we're being given.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The longer arcs in TCW gave them time to have the heroes fail and raise the stakes. I think back on the Slaves of the Republic arc where one episode ended with Obi-Wan and Rex shipped off to a labor camp of sorts, Ahsoka caged above the city, and Anakin at the beck and call of the Queen. And the following episode took time showing Obi-Wan at his captors' mercy and Anakin debating the moral dilemma he faced.

Meanwhile, although Sabine did fail initially to get out and was captured, she freed herself within, what, 90 seconds? Again, no time taken to dwell on the failure and its consequences.
 
G

Gravidee

Member
Sayers said:
Indeed. The longer arcs in TCW gave them time to have the heroes fail and raise the stakes. I think back on the Slaves of the Republic arc where one episode ended with Obi-Wan and Rex shipped off to a labor camp of sorts, Ahsoka caged above the city, and Anakin at the beck and call of the Queen. And the following episode took time showing Obi-Wan at his captors' mercy and Anakin debating the moral dilemma he faced.

Meanwhile, although Sabine did fail initially to get out and was captured, she freed herself within, what, 90 seconds? Again, no time taken to dwell on the failure and its consequences.
Click to expand...

I think we simply have to accept that the structure of both series is very different. TCW was about the multifaceted components of the war and the parties that participated in it. Sometimes that meant following the main heroes, clones, the villains or even a group of droids and a frog general. TCW could also afford longer arcs devoted to these adventures because Lucas wanted to fit as may of them as he could within the three year timespan. The series was going to last 8 seasons, all of which would take place within that timeframe.

With Rebels, the focus is more on the daily adventures of the Ghost crew and the gradual buildup of rebel forces until it becomes the Alliance that we know of in the movies. Longer arcs would be nice, but I feel like they don't do it as much as TCW because of the aforementioned daily adventures and that they want the series to go at a faster pace. The series started at 5-4 years before ANH. Third season just started and we're now at two years before the events of that movie.

But since the series is still relatively new, it's entirely possible they could switch to longer arcs like TCW did as it went along. We'll see.
 
S

Sayers

Member
SpaceWolf said:
So Ashoka's dead? Otherwise, I'm not seeing it.
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Presumed. Although, if I may indulge in my own headcanon, I think Vader TOLD the emperor she was dead so that he would not be forced to continue to pursue her, whether out of wanting to continue to avoid his past self or out of a tiny part of him not really wanting to kill her.

Gravidee said:
But since the series is still relatively new, it's entirely possible they could switch to longer arcs like TCW did as it went along. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Fair points but I am afraid that it is probably more about the target demographic than anything else. Maybe this new series Filoni is working on will have more of a TCW structure.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Sayers said:
Although, if I may indulge in my own headcanon, I think Vader TOLD the emperor she was dead so that he would not be forced to continue to pursue her, whether out of wanting to continue to avoid his past self or out of a tiny part of him not really wanting to kill her.
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dVDJiez.gif
 
N

Nete

Member
On the last episode, I'm sad the
red striped Interceptor is not Soontir. Missed opportunity :(
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
About Ahsoka
why do so many people say "assumed dead" from a viewer perspective, when in the epilogue of the S2 finale we could fairly clearly see her outline in the smoke walking in the Sith temple?
.
 
S

Sayers

Member
Elandyll said:
About Ahsoka
why do so many people say "assumed dead" from a viewer perspective, when in the epilogue of the S2 finale we could fairly clearly see her outline in the smoke walking in the Sith temple?
.
Click to expand...

Speaking only for myself, I say presumed only within context of the show. As far as any of the characters in Rebels know, she is dead. Vader may be the only person in the galaxy who knows that she is not.
 
V

Vecks

Member
Elandyll said:
About Ahsoka
why do so many people say "assumed dead" from a viewer perspective, when in the epilogue of the S2 finale we could fairly clearly see her outline in the smoke walking in the Sith temple?
.
Click to expand...

Like vader, she too seemed to be staggering away from the fight, however, she was staggering downward, into the dark stairway. She could have sustained fatal injuries. And there has been no indication that she was rescued or anything. The way it's depicted also seems like symbolism of her falling to her grave.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
Sayers said:
Presumed. Although, if I may indulge in my own headcanon, I think Vader TOLD the emperor she was dead so that he would not be forced to continue to pursue her, whether out of wanting to continue to avoid his past self or out of a tiny part of him not really wanting to kill her.
Click to expand...

I imagine that he would not lie to the Emperor while truly knowing otherwise. He's jamming with the dark side too much to plainly protect her like that, to know she's alive and choosing not to pursue so that she would survive. That's a very conscious choice to make and I don't think he would. He is fully dedicated to the dark side.

I think Vader has a disconnect between his conscious thoughts and his subconscious feelings. In the OT he talked and walked all big and bad, he really believed he truly was big and bad. It wasn't until Luke dragged that shit out from deep deep down that he finally realized the truth. I dont think Vader was outright lying when he said there was "no conflict." I think he was really trying to believe it. He's not lying to others, he's lying to himself.

More likely he's just a little too willing to assume Ahsoka's death because it's easier to deal with emotionally. Somewhere in the back of his head he knows she might have survived, but he doesn't have to face that possibility if he convinces himself she's dead. On a conscious level he's decided to ignore that nagging voice and assume she's dead. On a subconscious level, leaving her death unverified like that may provide him relief because of the possibility of survival. Deep down it secretly pleases him. That's not what he tells himself, though.

Basically same theory as you except instead of lying to others, I think Vader lies to himself. I think he does it constantly. It's part of his character. His decisions are actually driven by emotion but he validates them after the fact with logic, like a lot of people do without realizing it.
 
S

Sayers

Member
SillyNonsense said:
I imagine that he would not lie to the Emperor while truly knowing otherwise. He's jamming with the dark side too much to plainly protect her like that, to know she's alive and choosing not to pursue so that she would survive. That's a very conscious choice to make and I don't think he would. He is fully dedicated to the dark side.

I think Vader has a disconnect between his conscious thoughts and his subconscious feelings. In the OT he talked and walked all big and bad, he really believed he truly was big and bad. It wasn't until Luke dragged that shit out from deep deep down that he finally realized the truth. I dont think Vader was outright lying when he said there was "no conflict." I think he was really trying to believe it. He's not lying to others, he's lying to himself.

More likely he's just a little too willing to assume Ahsoka's death because it's easier to deal with emotionally. Somewhere in the back of his head he knows she might have survived, but he doesn't have to face that possibility if he convinces himself she's dead. On a conscious level he's decided to ignore that nagging voice and assume she's dead. On a subconscious level, leaving her death unverified like that may provide him relief because of the possibility of survival. That's not what he tells himself, though.

Basically same theory as you except instead of lying to others, I think Vader lies to himself. I think he does it constantly, actually. It's part of his character.
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An interesting perspective. Indeed, your theory and mine could both be right. My only counter would be - have we not seen him lie to the Emperor before? Granted, I have not read the comics and the Ahsoka novel will be my first novel from the new canon so I may very well be mistaken, but my understanding was that in Disney canon Vader knew who Luke was before the Emperor did and kept it from him, intending all along to recruit Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
Sayers said:
An interesting perspective. Indeed, your theory and mine could both be right. My only counter would be - have we not seen him lie to the Emperor before? Granted, I have not read the comics and the Ahsoka novel will be my first novel from the new canon so I may very well be mistaken, but my understanding was that in Disney canon Vader knew who Luke was before the Emperor did and kept it from him, intending all along to recruit Luke to help him overthrow the Emperor.
Click to expand...

The difference is that overthrowing your master in the quest for power is still very much the Sith way and does not really violate his "values." It is the duty of the student to overthrow the teacher if they become weak enough to allow it, because only the strongest must rule. And each time his master foils him, he becomes smarter and better for next time. It's a mutual arrangement to keep them both at their best. When Vader tried to recruit Luke, it wasn't to free the galaxy. It was to rule it.

Again as per my theory, Vader's conscious motivation was his Sith values, but deep down he may have actually been motivated by feelings of regret, hatred for the Emperor, and longing for connection with his son. But he wouldn't acknowledge that even to himself. He mistakes his mask for his face.

Consciously deciding to save an old friend for the sake of their safety however doesn't match up with how I view his emotional situation.
 
L

Lifejumper

Member
Names for the next three episodes after the episode ''Last Battle'' are revealed. So break on 29th of October and the 12th of November.

"Imperial Supercommandos" airing on November 5th, 2016
"Iron Squadron" airing on November 19th, 2016
"The Wynkahthu Job" airing on November 26th, 2016
 
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