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Star Wars Rebels Season 3 |OT| Dark Forces Rising

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The difference is that overthrowing your master in the quest for power is still very much the Sith way and does not really violate his "values." It is the duty of the student to overthrow the teacher if they become weak enough to allow it, because only the strongest must rule. And each time his master foils him, he becomes smarter and better for next time. It's a mutual arrangement to keep them both at their best. When Vader tried to recruit Luke, it wasn't to free the galaxy. It was to rule it.

Again as per my theory, Vader's conscious motivation was his Sith values, but deep down he may have actually been motivated by feelings of regret, hatred for the Emperor, and longing for connection with his son. But he wouldn't acknowledge that even to himself. He mistakes his mask for his face.

Consciously deciding to save an old friend for the sake of their safety however doesn't match up with how I view his emotional situation.

Reading Lords of the Sith, I'd argue that Vader is having problems with this belief system.

It seems he wants the kill the emperor at some point, and the emperor has even encouraged this way of thinking, but Vader doesn't seem to be responding to it as he should.

He also gets easily distracted by thoughts of Ahsoka and Rex that give him pause. He even saved a random Twi'lek girl's life from being struck down by the Emperor. As brutal as he is there is obviously some things that hold him back and cause him confusion of himself.


On another note. Has anyone read the new Ahsoka novel yet?
 

Mariolee

Member
Reading Lords of the Sith, I'd argue that Vader is having problems with this belief system.

It seems he wants the kill the emperor at some point, and the emperor has even encouraged this way of thinking, but Vader doesn't seem to be responding to it as he should.

He also gets easily distracted by thoughts of Ahsoka and Rex that give him pause. He even saved a random Twi'lek girl's life from being struck down by the Emperor. As brutal as he is there is obviously some things that hold him back and cause him confusion of himself.


On another note. Has anyone read the newu Ahsoka novel yet?

Oh wow Lords of the Sith sounds fantastic. May pick it up someday.
 

JackDT

Member
Reading Lords of the Sith, I'd argue that Vader is having problems with this belief system.

It seems he wants the kill the emperor at some point, and the emperor has even encouraged this way of thinking, but Vader doesn't seem to be responding to it as he should.

He also gets easily distracted by thoughts of Ahsoka and Rex that give him pause. He even saved a random Twi'lek girl's life from being struck down by the Emperor. As brutal as he is there is obviously some things that hold him back and cause him confusion of himself.


On another note. Has anyone read the new Ahsoka novel yet?

An interesting take on Vader's redemption is in the new Leia novel. Unlike Luke, she doesn't believe that you can simply make the right choice at the end and redeem yourself from anything you've done. He destroyed her planet in front of her and she doesn't forgive him for that.
 
Reading Lords of the Sith, I'd argue that Vader is having problems with this belief system.

It seems he wants the kill the emperor at some point, and the emperor has even encouraged this way of thinking, but Vader doesn't seem to be responding to it as he should.

He also gets easily distracted by thoughts of Ahsoka and Rex that give him pause. He even saved a random Twi'lek girl's life from being struck down by the Emperor. As brutal as he is there is obviously some things that hold him back and cause him confusion of himself.

Ah, I do remember that in Lords of the Sith. To be fair though, that book is fairly early in Vader's career as a supervillain. It takes place 5 years after episode 3 while Rebels takes place 15 years after.
The Emperor used his doubt to teach Vader a lesson in that instance. Another decade of those lessons between that book and Rebels could result in an ice cold and hardened Vader. One closer to the monster of A New Hope than the uncertain sith apprentice in ROTS.
Depending on the timeframe/era we can both be right. I'm sure it took years to forge the OT Vader we know.

I watch ep4 and I dont see a man filled with doubt. I see a confident machine.
 
The Hera episode was the best one so far. I love their portrayal of Thrawn and his theme music rocks because it reminds me of the Interstellar soundtrack.
Edit: and holy shit the episode included a competent scout trooper.
 
Yeah so far this season has been pretty solid. Looking forward to how it ramps up.


Regarding Lords of the Sith the Vader/Palpatine stuff is 10/10, but the book loses steam when it follows the Twi'leks.
 

Sayers

Member
Guess I'm going to be the contrarian today because this episode didn't do much for me. Felt very low stakes, probably because the full sprint pacing once again did not allow for any build up.

Looking forward to the return of the droid army next week though.
 
Slayven pls

2Fn1wfR.jpg


Thrawn was cool but overall the episode left me cold. Hera just isnt interesting.
 

Sayers

Member
Hera just isnt interesting.

I like Hera in her role as the emotional rock. She is a wise, reasonable, and well balanced person; she's the conscience of the crew. Unfortunately, that makes her kind of dull when the plot revolves around her. Even in this episode they made a half-hearted attempt to make her seem selfish for wanting to go after her family heirloom. But none of the other characters would entertain that line of thought so it's pretty hard for the audience to.
 
How many seasons does anyone think Thrawn has? And of the main cast, which of the Ghost crew will be his counterpart -- in the way that the Grand Inquisitor was Kanan's?
 
How many seasons does anyone think Thrawn has? And of the main cast, which of the Ghost crew will be his counterpart -- in the way that the Grand Inquisitor was Kanan's?
Filoni said they are playing the long game with thrawn. So I suspect he survives till end of the series, maybe even after that.
 
Filoni said they are playing the long game with thrawn. So I suspect he survives till end of the series, maybe even after that.

Who do you think he'll be arch nemesis to in this series? They haven't really balanced the villain roster with characters to function as direct foils to all of the main characters yet.
 
Sabine.

No, really! She's the artist of the team, and Thrawn is well known for using art against his enemies. She'll take offense to that when she learns.

From what I can tell, based on the latest Rebels Recon its kind of a mix of her, and Hera. Hera being his parallel as a strategist and leader, Sabine as a connoisseur of the arts and what it means.
 

McNum

Member
From what I can tell, based on the latest Rebels Recon its kind of a mix of her, and Hera. Hera being his parallel as a strategist and leader, Sabine as a connoisseur of the arts and what it means.
I would, completely honestly, love to watch an episode that's all about Thrawn and Sabine discussing art. Well, maybe half of one, need to have some war in a Star Wars episode, too. Heck, have Sabine be the one to realize that he uses art to get a feel for his enemies and try to explain to everyone just how dangerous he is.

On that note, though... Thrawn needs a win soon. This is twice he's let the Rebels get away. I know he's a lose a battle to win a war kind of strategist and all, but you DO need to win some battles. He doesn't need to be Vader level scary, but he does need to win a few times to still be a credible threat.
 

iosefe

Member
On that note, though... Thrawn needs a win soon. This is twice he's let the Rebels get away. I know he's a lose a battle to win a war kind of strategist and all, but you DO need to win some battles. He doesn't need to be Vader level scary, but he does need to win a few times to still be a credible threat.
It was a win. To gain new knowledge on the enemy is very useful. Something he could use against the rebels
 
I like Hera quite a bit. She DOES lose her cool sometimes, like in the first Cham episode when she was arguing with him and her accent came back a bit. I loved that touch. And the final couple of S2 episodes when Kanan and Ezra were planning to go to the temple and there were some clues that Hera was getting fed up with Ezra being around. I liked this episode.


By the way, did anyone else catch Thrawn losing his temper because he didn't like the racism he heard? The Imperial captain called Hera "Twi'lek trash" and Thrawn lost it for a second. Then he played it off as "guess not everyone appreciates art like I do".
 

SeanC

Member
By the way, did anyone else catch Thrawn losing his temper because he didn't like the racism he heard? The Imperial captain called Hera "Twi'lek trash" and Thrawn lost it for a second. Then he played it off as "guess not everyone appreciates art like I do".

I think the "Trash" was referencing the heirloom he was holding, not Hera herself.

What I did catch was the dude with the rocketlauncher who is a total idiot. Oh...you have a clear shot on the Walker, the thing that's causing the most trouble. Sweet let's...oh...Nope...gonna shoot some rocks and take out one stormtrooper. Alright...
 
Ah, I do remember that in Lords of the Sith. To be fair though, that book is fairly early in Vader's career as a supervillain. It takes place 5 years after episode 3 while Rebels takes place 15 years after.
The Emperor used his doubt to teach Vader a lesson in that instance. Another decade of those lessons between that book and Rebels could result in an ice cold and hardened Vader. One closer to the monster of A New Hope than the uncertain sith apprentice in ROTS.
Depending on the timeframe/era we can both be right. I'm sure it took years to forge the OT Vader we know.

I watch ep4 and I dont see a man filled with doubt. I see a confident machine.

Sure, but we know that Vader has light in him. That's what makes the character so interesting.

Luke saw it during Empire. It's probably what kept Ahsoka alive at the end of Season 2.

The "moster" that we saw in A New Hope was a bit different. You can even see that in Lords of the Sith when Vader has to protect his flagship deathstar. Guy is absolutely relentless when he thinks he's actually under attack.

I think the "Trash" was referencing the heirloom he was holding, not Hera herself.

What I did catch was the dude with the rocketlauncher who is a total idiot. Oh...you have a clear shot on the Walker, the thing that's causing the most trouble. Sweet let's...oh...Nope...gonna shoot some rocks and take out one stormtrooper. Alright...

I thought the same thing. Seemed very out of place. Gobi is in Lords of the Sith as well, so it was interesting getting to see him. I was a bit disappointed with his Rebels display.
 

Tapejara

Member
By the way, did anyone else catch Thrawn losing his temper because he didn't like the racism he heard? The Imperial captain called Hera "Twi'lek trash" and Thrawn lost it for a second. Then he played it off as "guess not everyone appreciates art like I do".

I actually wanted to bring this up as well. Whether he was referring to the heirloom or Hera, he clearly lost his composure - and despite Thrawn only appearing in two episodes that seemed very out of character. I've never read the (now non-canon) Thrawn novels so I don't know if there's any history that they're going to borrow from that series, but do you guys think it's possible that Thrawn's people experienced some sort of genocide? There's not much on the Canon Wiki page for the Chiss species, so I'm wondering if maybe he recognizes what it's like to have one's culture destroyed and sees the necessity in preserving Twi'lek culture even if he views Hera and her people as the enemy?
 

Lorcain

Member
They're doing a good job portraying Thrawn as a strategist who values knowing his enemy through the study of their culture and behavior. They also show that he has honor, unlike his fellow Imperial commanders, which may cause him problems with his bosses in the long run.

The Twi'lek wasting his anti-tank rocket on rocks instead of taking out the walker was one of the most boneheaded things I've seen on the show, and should have earned him backlash from his fellow rebels.

I agree that as important as Hera is to the group for her unflappable demeanor and leadership, it doesn't always play well when the story is focused solely on her. It may just be personal preference, but I would much rather see more character development with Sabine. She has a really interesting (troubled) backstory, and could play a major role in Ezra's development.
 
I actually wanted to bring this up as well. Whether he was referring to the heirloom or Hera, he clearly lost his composure - and despite Thrawn only appearing in two episodes that seemed very out of character. I've never read the (now non-canon) Thrawn novels so I don't know if there's any history that they're going to borrow from that series, but do you guys think it's possible that Thrawn's people experienced some sort of genocide? There's not much on the Canon Wiki page for the Chiss species, so I'm wondering if maybe he recognizes what it's like to have one's culture destroyed and sees the necessity in preserving Twi'lek culture even if he views Hera and her people as the enemy?

That could be... My thinking was more along the lines of how he and Mas Amedda are basically the only non-humans in the whole damn empire, maybe he's kind of touchy about the imperial culture of "non-humans are worthless".
 

Davide

Member
I watched Clone Wars season 1-2 and a bit of 3 and thought for the most part it was all terrible and hated Ahsoka. But I keep hearing that and Rebels are actually good. Should I try getting into them? Should I skip the first season of Rebels?
 
I watched Clone Wars season 1-2 and a bit of 3 and thought for the most part it was all terrible and hated Ahsoka. But I keep hearing that and Rebels are actually good. Should I try getting into them? Should I skip the first season of Rebels?
Clone Wars starts getting good in season 3. I hated 1 and 2 also.

Rebels is about as good as the mid-good Clone Wars arcs, I think. A little better because of its OT aesthetics.
 

Tapejara

Member
That could be... My thinking was more along the lines of how he and Mas Amedda are basically the only non-humans in the whole damn empire, maybe he's kind of touchy about the imperial culture of "non-humans are worthless".

True, I hadn't considered that. Definitely interested to see if they focus on that aspect of the Empire.

I watched Clone Wars season 1-2 and a bit of 3 and thought for the most part it was all terrible and hated Ahsoka. But I keep hearing that and Rebels are actually good. Should I try getting into them? Should I skip the first season of Rebels?

As much as I love seasons 1-2 of TCW, season 3 is where it starts to get really good and Ahsoka really comes into her own as a character. I'd say stick with TCW until at least the end of season three to see if it can get its hooks in you.

I don't think Rebels has yet hit the highs of TCW, but there's some good content in there and you'll benefit from having watched The Clone Wars beforehand.
 

TDLink

Member
I watched Clone Wars season 1-2 and a bit of 3 and thought for the most part it was all terrible and hated Ahsoka. But I keep hearing that and Rebels are actually good. Should I try getting into them? Should I skip the first season of Rebels?

Keep going with Clone Wars. S3-6 are great and miles better than Rebels. If you don't like Clone Wars at all then you will never like Rebels.
 
True, I hadn't considered that. Definitely interested to see if they focus on that aspect of the Empire.



As much as I love seasons 1-2 of TCW, season 3 is where it starts to get really good and Ahsoka really comes into her own as a character. I'd say stick with TCW until at least the end of season three to see if it can get its hooks in you.

I don't think Rebels has yet hit the highs of TCW, but there's some good content in there and you'll benefit from having watched The Clone Wars beforehand.


I think in order for Rebels to hit those highs they will need to start implementing longer story arcs. Stories like the Maul episode deserved at least 2 episodes to let the ideas presented in them room to breathe. I said in an earlier post that with 2 seasons under their belt that now was the perfect time to go with longers story arcs. I suppose once Lucasfilm is able to strike a deal with Netflix they can begin exploring those options, but as long as they're on Disney they're stuck with having to compromise.

I don't get why they can't go long form. The whole binge watching phenomenon is made for large chunks of storytelling.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
After watching the finale of s2 there was enough hype for me to start this season immediately. Like what I'm seeing so far. Last episode was a bit of a letdown except for the Thrawn scenes, those were amazing.

Also have to mention how last season's final act is now one of my all-time favorite SW moments. All those years of buildup in the Clone Wars seasons to lead to that confrontation and it didn't disappoint.

One crucial thing it added for me is that I finally saw Anakin Skywalker in the suit, something RotS failed to do. Ahsoka is the culmination of the best things he accomplished in the past, and it was standing right in front of him. The confrontation with the chipped mask, with him calling out to her and Lanters voice mixing with Earl Jones... unforgettable.

Not a big fan of statues or expensive figurines, but I'd definitely buy a statue of that exact moment. I'll have to look up high quality Ahsoka/Vader figures either way to put them together.

All in all I'm glad to finally be all caught up and look forward to the new eps together with everyone here
 

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Are the Tie-Advanceds of Vader and of the Inquisitors much different? Or are they basicly the same just that we never saw Vaders Tie with pulled in S-Foiles?
 

Jibbed

Member
Are the Tie-Advanceds of Vader and of the Inquisitors much different? Or are they basicly the same just that we never saw Vaders Tie with pulled in S-Foiles?

The Inquisitor variants are 'prototypes', I'm pretty sure they made a big deal out of the first one on-screen in the first series. There was a parade, etc.

The standard TIE Advanced that Vader pilots doesn't have wings that fold.
 

Tsunamo

Member
I completely forgot the Asoka book was coming out around now. I ordered a copy the other day and have been avoiding spoilers, so hopefully it gets here soon so I can finally read it. I'm really looking forward to it.
I watched Clone Wars season 1-2 and a bit of 3 and thought for the most part it was all terrible and hated Ahsoka. But I keep hearing that and Rebels are actually good. Should I try getting into them? Should I skip the first season of Rebels?
I was the same as you, stick with it. She gets a whole lot better and more likeable as you get further into it. (and the series gets much better)

I'd say watch it all because the first season is only 13 episodes and is a bit different in tone to season 2, it might be worth skipping a bit of season 2's episodes given that some of them are quite uneventful and boring (though there are some really really good ones to makeup for that) and this season so far has been great imho. Even though it's only 4 episodes in it feels like The Clone Wars show where the show finally starts to get its stride and really find its own in the 3rd season, the quality bar feels like it's been high and kept it since season 2's finale.
Preview for the next episode "The last battle'' (of the clone wars).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCsUudYwOvY

Looks like its the same Super Tactical Droid from the Onderon arc in TCW.
I'm a sucker for these prequel/The Clone Wars throwback episodes while being close to A New Hope era. Looks like i'm gonna enjoy this one.
After watching the finale of s2 there was enough hype for me to start this season immediately. Like what I'm seeing so far. Last episode was a bit of a letdown except for the Thrawn scenes, those were amazing.

Also have to mention how last season's final act is now one of my all-time favorite SW moments. All those years of buildup in the Clone Wars seasons to lead to that confrontation and it didn't disappoint.

One crucial thing it added for me is that I finally saw Anakin Skywalker in the suit, something RotS failed to do. Ahsoka is the culmination of the best things he accomplished in the past, and it was standing right in front of him. The confrontation with the chipped mask, with him calling out to her and Lanters voice mixing with Earl Jones... unforgettable.

Not a big fan of statues or expensive figurines, but I'd definitely buy a statue of that exact moment. I'll have to look up high quality Ahsoka/Vader figures either way to put them together.

All in all I'm glad to finally be all caught up and look forward to the new eps together with everyone here
Yeah season 2's finale is such a fantastic moment. All those years and seasons of The Clone Wars buildup to lead to this moment (which may have not have even happened had this show not been made)

It was absolutely fantastic and they completely nailed it.

I do wish Asoka got to stick around for a bit longer though. I really enjoyed having her in there with the maincast, like I do with Rex. Judging from what Dave Filoni said at this years Star Wars Celebration it sounds like she might comeback eventually though due to fan demand.
 
I really love how they are handling Thrawn. He has honor, but he is still clearly a bad guy. The pipe organ theme for him gave me legit chills the first time I heard it in the trailer.
 

Toxi

Banned
Are the Tie-Advanceds of Vader and of the Inquisitors much different? Or are they basicly the same just that we never saw Vaders Tie with pulled in S-Foiles?
The TIE Advanced Prototype is much less bulky and long than Vader's TIE Advanced. You can see the difference more obviously in profile views and from above.
 
So I decided to catch up.

And it's okay. I feel like the show still hasn't quite come together though.

Also watching Maul trying to make the Holocron submit to his will, and just screaming at it was kind of hilarious.
 

Gravidee

Member
It could've been cool if the droid became a strategist for the rebel alliance

I think he will come back in the future. They left his character alive for a reason. Also, for those that didn't know/notice, Kalani the super tactical droid also appeared in the Onderon arc of TCW. He was told by Dooku at the end to head over to Agamar and that's where he stayed until the latest Rebels episode.

general_kalani_4d7e9be0.jpeg
 
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