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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]

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MaddenNFL64

MaddenNFL64

Member
336368_101503136244388fftd.jpg


Great looking underground area of Voss.
 
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BattleMonkey

Member
Blackface said:
The biggest thread on the beta forums if you notice is about how shit the cover system is. I have been playing MMO's for a decade. At high levels, low levels and competitive PVP. I know what works and what doesn't work.

Any system that forces you to be stationary, in the middle of combat to do high damage, with no protecting and the ability to be taken out of this state by every class in the game multiple times in a 10 second span, is broken.

The last boss in the first Repbulic Flashpoint does the following. It puts a random spot on the ground you must move or be struck be lightning. It tosses it's sabre at you, it force chokes and it does an area knock back. All of these things force you to ditch your cover. Remember, this is the first instance in the entire game, the first instance is a face roll. So have fun sitting in cover in operations at 50.

In PVP smugglers and IA who spec in their dps cover tree are the easiest classes in the game to kill, by FAR.
Click to expand...

I can believe its not useful now but as I said, I don't see it as something that has to be ditched, but simply further improved and tweaked. Several abilities can not be used against targets in cover, they can further improve on that. Decrease/increase the speed for taking of cover and related abilities making it easier, increase range on abilities, etc, etc.

It's a bit late for it to be removed and as you say they are not going to change it most likely, but I think it still can be made useful despite the belief that you shouldn't be stationary in a MMO which for the most part does not truly matter in these types of games outside of PVE boss encounters.

The small nature of the PVP battle so far does not really help the situation as going in cover in a 8v8 does not seem like a good idea, its something more suited to a large scale PVP environment where these characters can be safely the back in cover providing fire while others are up front in the battle.

They added bunch of new abilities in the last build, they should likely put in some more functionality or move some more abilities to not require cover as to improve these characters survivability and utility.
 
D

Dash27

Member
Blackface said:
In PVP smugglers and IA who spec in their dps cover tree are the easiest classes in the game to kill, by FAR.
Click to expand...

So how is the PvP overall? Is the "feel" right for using your abilities. Is there too much CC. Is the time to kill about right or is there too much healing or dead in 1 global. Any games you can compare it too?
 
G

Gillian Seed

Banned
No i dont have room for a PC. I just use my laptop to browse the web and play Magic Online. Sucks if this game is gonna cost 1K or more for us Console Gamers who dont have gaming PC's! I guess i will wait for the TRUE KOTOR III.
 
LowParry

LowParry

Member
Gillian Seed said:
No i dont have room for a PC. I just use my laptop to browse the web and play Magic Online. Sucks if this game is gonna cost 1K or more for us Console Gamers who dont have gaming PC's! I guess i will wait for the TRUE KOTOR III.
Click to expand...

Which will be never.
 
G

Gillian Seed

Banned
No reason to act like a bunch of jerks about it. I have never cared for PC gaming, since i do not feel comfortable with a mouse and keyboard over a console controller. But i was thinking of giving this a go since i love Star Wars. And we will eventually get another single player KOTOR. I would even love a remake in HD.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Gillian Seed said:
Are there any good laptops that would run this game on higher settings that dont cost more than 500-700 dollar range?
Click to expand...

Alienware M11x does an ok job. Just have to dump shadows but other settings on high aren't too bad. Tested with it quite a bit.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
Gillian Seed said:
No reason to act like a bunch of jerks about it. I have never cared for PC gaming, since i do not feel comfortable with a mouse and keyboard over a console controller. But i was thinking of giving this a go since i love Star Wars. And we will eventually get another single player KOTOR. I would even love a remake in HD.
Click to expand...

We are telling you the truth, that is all.
 
S

syko de4d

Member
Gillian Seed said:
Are there any good laptops that would run this game on higher settings that dont cost more than 500-700 dollar range?
Click to expand...
right now a laptop with 540M is the best in ur price range, but that will only do 720P/middle Settings.

Maybe q1 2012 a laptop with AMD Fusion Trinity will run swtor with med-high. Trinity will be cheap, have low power consumption and will have about 1,5*540M Power.
So buy 540M laptop now -> Mid. Settings
Buy Desktop -> 1080p Ultra Settings
Wait and buy Trinity -> high settings with 720p
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Blackface said:
The biggest thread on the beta forums if you notice is about how shit the cover system is. I have been playing MMO's for a decade. At high levels, low levels and competitive PVP. I know what works and what doesn't work.

Any system that forces you to be stationary, in the middle of combat to do high damage, with no protecting and the ability to be taken out of this state by every class in the game multiple times in a 10 second span, is broken.

The last boss in the first Repbulic Flashpoint does the following. It puts a random spot on the ground you must move or be struck be lightning. It tosses it's sabre at you, it force chokes and it does an area knock back. All of these things force you to ditch your cover. Remember, this is the first instance in the entire game, the first instance is a face roll. So have fun sitting in cover in operations at 50.

In PVP smugglers and IA who spec in their dps cover tree are the easiest classes in the game to kill, by FAR.
Click to expand...

2nd biggest. The item changes is the biggest:p And I'm shocked they haven't gave us a hint to what and why the new system is in effect yet.

Anyways, in that cover thread you mention, a lot of people want the cover system to stay but just get tweaked. Very few minus the OP want the system ditched it seems.

Also the new entrench I believe doesn't allow anyone other then another sniper/smuggler to take you out of cover. Most cover posters are saying they are "going in the right direction" is what I'm taking away from the forums.

I play a sorc mainly the past 4 builds so I dont know anything! Sniper to lvl 15 though:p
 
B

Blackface

Banned
maabus1999 said:
2nd biggest. The item changes is the biggest:p And I'm shocked they haven't gave us a hint to what and why the new system is in effect yet.

Anyways, in that cover thread you mention, a lot of people want the cover system to stay but just get tweaked. Very few minus the OP want the system ditched it seems.

Also the new entrench I believe doesn't allow anyone other then another sniper/smuggler to take you out of cover. Most cover posters are saying they are "going in the right direction" is what I'm taking away from the forums.

I play a sorc mainly the past 4 builds so I dont know anything! Sniper to lvl 15 though:p
Click to expand...

No you can be taken out of cover by PVE mobs and players. I am playing a smuggler right now.

I would rather have stances then cover. I also would take what beta testers say with a grain of salt. Some are experienced MMO players who know what they are talking about. A huge majority of them are Bioware fanboys who know little about mmo balance and constantly talk about SWG and their computer specs.

Anytime you have to stay completely stationary in an MMO for periods of time greater then one second, you are not competitive anymore. Show me high end raid guilds where people stand still. Show me high end arena teams where people stay still. Cover is just a flawed concept.

I would rather IA and Smuggler have stances, or something where they can use their abilities and be mobile. Unless Bioware plans to buff the shit out of damage while in cover, then being stationary will never be viable.

The main problem with cover is finding it and or deploying it, then using your ability. Mages in WoW do stand still a bit to cast their abilities. However their cast time abilities are the hardest hitting in the game. Unfortunately this is not how IA or Smugglers are. I understand cover is an attempt to make that stand still and dps class (ala mages, destro locks etc..) However their constant need to deploy cover is wasted DPS time. If there were macro's, I would bind PC to all my in cover abilities so I never have to mainly press it.
 
S

syko de4d

Member
"Each faction has faction specific Flashpoints, but there are no class-specific Flashpoints. The closest would be class story instances, but they are much smaller than Flashpoints.

While we haven't revealed the final number of Flashpoints in the game at launch, it's not 50, that much I'll say. It's in double figures though. :)"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9475844#edit9475844

So minimum 10 Flashpoints, will be interesting how much Flash Points are faction specific. Maybe u need to play both faction to do all high end content? Would be interesting ^^
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Blackface said:
No you can be taken out of cover by PVE mobs and players. I am playing a smuggler right now.

I would rather have stances then cover. I also would take what beta testers say with a grain of salt. Some are experienced MMO players who know what they are talking about. A huge majority of them are Bioware fanboys who know little about mmo balance and constantly talk about SWG and their computer specs.
Click to expand...

You have entrench yet (maybe it is a talent) and they are still doing that? That goes directly against the patch notes (at least for players). It says "gives full CC immunity unless the ability specifically says it will break cover (like Smuggler's Diversion)"

Anyways I personally think the best way to keep cover going is to continue throwing some defensive and offensive buffs that way, maybe let snipe be used outside of cover (ambush should stay). Also they should make the talent "instant snipe rolling/setting up cover" a class skill instead of a talent. Just put a 6-10 sec cooldown on the instant to avoid abuse.

Throw in that cover isnt on the GCD anymore (good deal IMO) and if they get the animation not to effect gameplay (i.e. casting an ability), it may work out.

Again that is me not playing him much though.
 
B

Blackface

Banned
maabus1999 said:
You have entrench yet (maybe it is a talent) and they are still doing that? That goes directly against the patch notes (at least for players). It says "gives full CC immunity unless the ability specifically says it will break cover (like Smuggler's Diversion)"

Anyways I personally think the best way to keep cover going is to continue throwing some defensive and offensive buffs that way, maybe let snipe be used outside of cover (ambush should stay). Also they should make the talent "instant snipe rolling/setting up cover" a class skill instead of a talent. Just put a 6-10 sec cooldown on the instant to avoid abuse.

Throw in that cover isnt on the GCD anymore (good deal IMO) and if they get the animation not to effect gameplay (i.e. casting an ability), it may work out.

Again that is me not playing him much though.
Click to expand...

Unless it's bugged, nothing smuggler gets before mid 20's stops it this patch. That or Bioware doesn't classify things like force choke and knock back crowed control.
 
G

Gvaz

Banned
Gillian Seed said:
No i dont have room for a PC. I just use my laptop to browse the web and play Magic Online. Sucks if this game is gonna cost 1K or more for us Console Gamers who dont have gaming PC's! I guess i will wait for the TRUE KOTOR III.
Click to expand...
It's more like kotor and wow had a baby but then failed to learn certain traits from either.

And PC's don't cost $1000+ unless you're going HIGH end or you're buying all new parts or buying a pre-built one from a company.

You could buy a cheaper prebuilt system, but your expectations aren't on the same level as your price level.

And generally speaking you pay $300-500 more for a comparable laptop I've found. That mobility might be worth it to some people, but not to me.
 
P

pelican

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
It's not really entitlement as it's representation of their final product. If they can't deliver on promises, then why buy the game?
Click to expand...

Its a fucking beta for a game 3 months from launch.

You Sir are a complete idiot.
 
F

FieryBalrog

Member
If you can just deploy your own cover at will (which is needed for balance) then the whole system becomes kind of stupid anyway. It's just a paper-thin flavor for "stand still in one spot".

The whole attraction and coolness of cover is using the environment. Not spurting out a magical chest-high wall at whim.

That's why it works in your 3rd person shooter. It could even work in TOR leveling areas, although there'd have to be a suspicious amount of those chest-high crates and walls everywhere (Mass Effect 2?). The way they've done the areas now, you only have environmental cover some of the time.

But in raids?
 
E

Emitan

Member
FieryBalrog said:
If you can just deploy your own cover at will (which is needed for balance) then the whole system becomes kind of stupid anyway. It's just a paper-thin flavor for "stand still in one spot".

The whole attraction and coolness of cover is using the environment. Not spurting out a magical chest-high wall at whim.

That's why it works in your 3rd person shooter. It could even work in TOR leveling areas, although there'd have to be a suspicious amount of those chest-high crates and walls everywhere (Mass Effect 2?).

But in raids?
Click to expand...
Portable cover isn't as good as natural cover though.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
maabus1999 said:
You have entrench yet (maybe it is a talent) and they are still doing that? That goes directly against the patch notes (at least for players). It says "gives full CC immunity unless the ability specifically says it will break cover (like Smuggler's Diversion)"

Anyways I personally think the best way to keep cover going is to continue throwing some defensive and offensive buffs that way, maybe let snipe be used outside of cover (ambush should stay). Also they should make the talent "instant snipe rolling/setting up cover" a class skill instead of a talent. Just put a 6-10 sec cooldown on the instant to avoid abuse.

Throw in that cover isnt on the GCD anymore (good deal IMO) and if they get the animation not to effect gameplay (i.e. casting an ability), it may work out.

Again that is me not playing him much though.
Click to expand...

They should just make more of their abilities not require cover. The class build shouldn't depend on the use of cover, it should be a situational bonus, but keep them useful outside of cover as well.

Some of the stuff people want will end up just possibly making them too powerful and of course there will be cries of nerf from the other classes when it comes to PVP.

FieryBalrog said:
If you can just deploy your own cover at will (which is needed for balance) then the whole system becomes kind of stupid anyway. It's just a paper-thin flavor for "stand still in one spot".

The whole attraction and coolness of cover is using the environment. Not spurting out a magical chest-high wall at whim.

That's why it works in your 3rd person shooter. It could even work in TOR leveling areas, although there'd have to be a suspicious amount of those chest-high crates and walls everywhere (Mass Effect 2?). The way they've done the areas now, you only have environmental cover some of the time.

But in raids?
Click to expand...

The portable cover is not as good. They should if anything make port cover quicker and easier to deploy but make it just nowhere as good with far less bonuses compared to regular cover.
 
F

FieryBalrog

Member
Billychu said:
Portable cover isn't as good as natural cover though.
Click to expand...
But why have portable cover at all? Just balance raiding around not having cover. What does it add? The only thing is flavor, but in my opinion it actually detracts from flavor. Really, this guy is throwing out a chest-high wall and hiding behind it during a raid while everyone else is running around in the open? It's silly.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Pro-Tip: Setting up portalable cover behind a solid object (even one that doesn't have a natural cover point) turns portable cover into natural cover.

Developer posted this a few days ago and blew the minds of some agents who never knew that.
 
D

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I am hoping my laptop will run this as I won't have the money for a desktop until next year.

Specs:
Intel Core i5, M560 @ 2.67 GHz
8.00 GB RAM
Win 7 64 bit
NVIDIA NVS 3100 M (Total graphics memory = 4095MB, dedicated video memory = 512 MB DDR 3)

Think it will run?
 
D

Darklord

Banned
Deadly Cyclone said:
I am hoping my laptop will run this as I won't have the money for a desktop until next year.

Specs:
Intel Core i5, M560 @ 2.67 GHz
8.00 GB RAM
Win 7 64 bit
NVIDIA NVS 3100 M (Total graphics memory = 4095MB, dedicated video memory = 512 MB DDR 3)

Think it will run?
Click to expand...

Of course it will.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
FieryBalrog said:
But why have portable cover at all? Just balance raiding around not having cover. What does it add? The only thing is flavor, but in my opinion it actually detracts from flavor. Really, this guy is throwing out a chest-high wall and hiding behind it during a raid while everyone else is running around in the open? It's silly.
Click to expand...

Think it adds a very interesting gameplay mechanic that is unique for the classes, but the implementation doesn't seem as well thought out. The specific advanced class basically makes them focus on using cover to really play as it's supposed to be, when really cover should be a situational bonus and the class should be playable and competitive without having to use it. Visually portable cover seems kind of odd though not really out of realm of the universe which does have portable force field generators and such. Don't find it much more silly than a bunch of people standing in place shooting blastes at each other in the open. Miss from SWG the conditional modifies of movement and stance which allowed people to go prone, crouch, and run and gun instead of static pew pew battles.

They should be able to do more abilities outside of cover, not be slaves to it. Let them use abilities out of cover perhaps, but give them a bonus to the abilities when they use them while in cover for example.
 
LAUGHTREY

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
dogmanstaruk said:
Its a fucking beta for a game 3 months from launch.

You Sir are a complete idiot.
Click to expand...

3 months from launch, minus 1 month for manufacturing, so 2 months.


2 months in a 4+ year dev cycle to fix major problems in a huge balancing act. Somebody doesn't know much about MMOs.
 
E

Emitan

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
3 months from launch, minus 1 month for manufacturing, so 2 months.


2 months in a 4+ year dev cycle to fix major problems in a huge balancing act. Somebody doesn't know much about MMOs.
Click to expand...
What does manufacturing have to do with anything? It's an online game. Anything fixed in the last month with a day one patch.
 
B

BattleMonkey

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
3 months from launch, minus 1 month for manufacturing, so 2 months.

2 months in a 4+ year dev cycle to fix major problems in a huge balancing act. Somebody doesn't know much about MMOs.
Click to expand...

Oh please, so far the game is extremely polished being only 3 months out and the betas are ongoing right now. Panic because of delay of beta weekends as "not having their shit together" is a bit premature. I'm so far pretty pleased with it, and this is the crunch time of the game to get it up to spec and polished for release. Manufacturing also is meaningless, testing, updates, and everything is going to continue past them sending out the discs to be pressed... as is normal with MMO....I'm not sure you should be telling people about knowing much about MMOs. Giant day 1 launch patch incoming, as is the norm also.

Most of the issues being worked on right now are not exactly "major problems", just lots of tweaks being done with final polishes and implementation of content for release.
 
K

kodt

Banned
WTF is this shit. Just got this e-mail:

Return to The Old Republic sooner

Now that you've had a chance to experience your own Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ saga, make sure you don't miss out when the game launches. Pre-order* for Early Game Access and lock in your copy today.
Click to expand...

Compare testing experiences

We hope you are enjoying participating in the Game Testing Program and want to thank you for helping shape the most anticipated MMO to date.

We've posted a fun short survey for game testers, and the results have been really interesting so far. Answer a few questions and see what your fellow testers are thinking. After the survey, hit the forums to talk about your experience or get gameplay tips.
Click to expand...

Umm I never got into the beta?

They are just taunting me now.
 
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