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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
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TurtleSnatcher
Member
GGs to aznpxdd..
We both fooled around early on.. Hellion rushes are interesting but are pretty shitty as well.. I think Speedlings are better at that.. and I could get them as fast as someone could get 5 or 6 hellions.. and Id be able to move around faster as well.. yea more vulnerable but only a little more.
They suck in 2v2s i think.. maybe not os much in 1v1s..
We had an epic last game where we were Terran and Zerg vs another Terran and Zerg on Twilight Fortress..
We decided to tech since its a turtle map.. yea... That didnt go well.
The zerg roach rushed us with the Terran supporting with marines.. he had burrow and movement burrow early.. and we both were caught off guard.. we some how pushed back though. But he made a big 2nd attack with roaches and took out half of aznpxdd's base... But thankfully I got 5 broodlords out and we were able to push back. We then pretty much just went Marines/Mauraders/Medivacs and I went Broodlords/Hydras (Mainly just Hydra) and we won..
They had Battlecruisers.. Thors.. and Tons of Hydras and was trying to take over the map but we held them from doing so. Overall.. awesome game.
We both fooled around early on.. Hellion rushes are interesting but are pretty shitty as well.. I think Speedlings are better at that.. and I could get them as fast as someone could get 5 or 6 hellions.. and Id be able to move around faster as well.. yea more vulnerable but only a little more.
They suck in 2v2s i think.. maybe not os much in 1v1s..
We had an epic last game where we were Terran and Zerg vs another Terran and Zerg on Twilight Fortress..
We decided to tech since its a turtle map.. yea... That didnt go well.
The zerg roach rushed us with the Terran supporting with marines.. he had burrow and movement burrow early.. and we both were caught off guard.. we some how pushed back though. But he made a big 2nd attack with roaches and took out half of aznpxdd's base... But thankfully I got 5 broodlords out and we were able to push back. We then pretty much just went Marines/Mauraders/Medivacs and I went Broodlords/Hydras (Mainly just Hydra) and we won..
They had Battlecruisers.. Thors.. and Tons of Hydras and was trying to take over the map but we held them from doing so. Overall.. awesome game.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
:lol :lolaznpxdd said:
Yea I think if we tried.. we'd be fucking unstoppable because that 1 game I did go roaches early.. and you still went hellions :lol we were pretty much good to go.
That guy even tried rushing me with all his zeals and whatever his partner had in lings.. and still lost to my roaches.. fail.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Just played an epic ffa with Mila, Demi, and Vicarious lol. I'll try to upload it
PhoenixDark said:
When the nukes started raining they just never stopped. Broodlords are amazing, in the FFA just before that I finally had a chance to build them, then thanks to you, I was finally on the receiving end of them. Battle cruisers are now the only unit I haven't had the opportunity to build in a game and coincidentally enough haven't had to face either.
I wish once you were eliminated from an FFA you can drop to spectator to see its conclusion.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Milabrega said:
I went in expecting to lose, so I figured I'd play it loose and do stuff I normally don't do, like expanding so early. It put me in a perfect position to get Broodlords, and once I had them it was just a question of who to take out first lol. My brother thought my attack was gonna fail, but it seemed like a good idea: nydus your expansion with hydras, then bring the Broodlords through the back of your main base; ultimate flank lol. It's funny because that nydus was the only building I had left by the end; if I hadn't done that, Vicarious would have beaten me with his nukes/destruction of my bases.
Those nukes were insane. Amazing game tho
Fragamemnon
Member
I'm really suprised by how much Roach rushing against Terran I'm seeing even at the 1300-ish ELO levels. I figured by now people would have had it failed enough times that they would try something different.
Edit: Also, aspiriing Terran players looking to shape up their TvT game should start to move away from bio,Banshees, and Battlecruisers and think more about the fantastic control aspects of tanks/vikings. I'm having a lot of success in TvT with BW style tank lines/turrets and vikings for air control. Right now it's definitely the most BW style matchup in the game I think, with the exception of PvP if you are like me and consider PvP to be basically two people throwing overpowered shit at each other and one person winning. :lol
Edit: Also, aspiriing Terran players looking to shape up their TvT game should start to move away from bio,Banshees, and Battlecruisers and think more about the fantastic control aspects of tanks/vikings. I'm having a lot of success in TvT with BW style tank lines/turrets and vikings for air control. Right now it's definitely the most BW style matchup in the game I think, with the exception of PvP if you are like me and consider PvP to be basically two people throwing overpowered shit at each other and one person winning. :lol
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Yea 12-16.. i didnt pump any early as I was just waiting for speed upgrades.aznpxdd said:
Fragamemnon
Member
Using Hellions is really map and scout dependent, at least in 1v1.
For example, against Protoss, it can be worth doing a Hellion harass if you see one gate fast tech to Robo. You can still get enough Marauders/marines and a bunker to defend against the push if your harass fails, but a lot of times even if it does fail Protoss will not be aggressive since they are worried you'll strike again. It's MUCH better on the shorter distance 2 player maps like Steppes of War or Blistering Sands , or on maps like Scrap Station and Desert Oasis where you delay the harass until midgame since the natural is so hard to defend.
Now against Zerg, their use is IMO reactive and dependent on if you think they are going to go one-base roach rush.
a) You see a fast expansion hatchery.
b) You scout and see something that looks like lings into lair
It is not a good idea if you see no lings and a roach warren going up, obviously.
I would not get the ignite upgrade unless you have decent micro and are willing to move hellions in a fight to the right places. This is not always easy given the other things you'll likely have to worry about, and it will delay your other tech considerably as well as delay your Hellion harass since you can't use a reactor.
For example, against Protoss, it can be worth doing a Hellion harass if you see one gate fast tech to Robo. You can still get enough Marauders/marines and a bunker to defend against the push if your harass fails, but a lot of times even if it does fail Protoss will not be aggressive since they are worried you'll strike again. It's MUCH better on the shorter distance 2 player maps like Steppes of War or Blistering Sands , or on maps like Scrap Station and Desert Oasis where you delay the harass until midgame since the natural is so hard to defend.
Now against Zerg, their use is IMO reactive and dependent on if you think they are going to go one-base roach rush.
a) You see a fast expansion hatchery.
b) You scout and see something that looks like lings into lair
It is not a good idea if you see no lings and a roach warren going up, obviously.
I would not get the ignite upgrade unless you have decent micro and are willing to move hellions in a fight to the right places. This is not always easy given the other things you'll likely have to worry about, and it will delay your other tech considerably as well as delay your Hellion harass since you can't use a reactor.
Fragamemnon
Member
mint said:
I like it so much more than the bio play I've seen. I know that Bio+siege tank is also popular but the problem with that is just how fast marines die to tank fire. In SC2 tanks are smart enough not to "overkill" so if you run into a siege line with bio each shot will get maximum effect and splash. It's really brutal.
The only tricky part is fighting off that first rush of marauders+marines, but ever since I went safe with some marauder production early on it's been a very safe siege expand play into a quick third base after you smash their first (over eager) bio army.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
CharlieDigital said:
Great match.. great use of infestors and broodlords.. I wonder how Hydras + Infestors would do.. that would be a great counter agst M&M. I loved that first attack and mind controlling everything haha.
I'm shocked he didnt use infested terrans until like halfway through that battle. Also no corruption on buildings until the end.. then again i woulda probably forgot myself.
Still having a big problem with this: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23710581887&postId=237083487107&sid=5000#1
Does anyone have ideas on how to fix it? I've tried quite a lot of things at this point...
Does anyone have ideas on how to fix it? I've tried quite a lot of things at this point...
Lord Phol
Member
So what's Protoss best anti-air, and any good tactics against Terran and their inpenetrateable bases?
Mass front, with colossus hitting from the sides?
Neither teleporting in or cloaking works any good because of commsite, missile towers and sensory tower >:x
Also, surviving MMM spam is fricking hard!
Mass front, with colossus hitting from the sides?
Neither teleporting in or cloaking works any good because of commsite, missile towers and sensory tower >:x
Also, surviving MMM spam is fricking hard!
Lord Phol said:
IMO Toss anti air sucks, I was playing toss hardcore since launch and then when u get mass air rushed by anyone its tough to counter. Pheonix are ok, those beam thingies are only good to harass and cariers are very meh. Which leaves Those crystal dudes, archons, and stalkers. Archons are great because of their high shields and high damage and splash, but too expensive. OH ALSO HIGH TEMPLAR, those would be your best bet, but im not sure how much their psi storm does to certain units. Anyways, sstalkers ive done massive amounts vs like bansheesh or mutas and they always go down so quick. Its tough because their ground game is so strong.
As for breaking terran, the thing to do is have a couple zlots with stalkers and focus fire their depot (if your rushing) then run through the line into their base, Colussus are great bcuz if you upgrade their range they outrange stactic D and turrets (much like siege tanks).
You can always have a small squad have a skirmish at the front consisting of zlots and immortals, then use colussusus to come up the side and then blink in with stalkers. I try to do that alot, or if your doing 2v2 and your with terran you can always have them comstat and you can blink, hahaha.
Calavera520
Member
DemiMatt said:
what language is this?
Fragamemnon
Member
Hazaro said:
I think reactionary is a good term to describe them. Protoss have such tremendous hard counters against Terran mid-game unit compositions (Colossus w/ range upgrade, Immortals against tanks, HTs w/ psi storm) that you really have to react your tech and unit compositions intensely based on what they are doing.
Zerg is the same way-their units have such large list damage w/o restrictions and can tech switch on you really fast, so unless you get a win in a fight early on (forcing your opponent down a particular path as a result)you'll be always be reacting your unit composition to their tech.
I don't think it's a terrible design, and there are some ways for Terran to take initiative (Banshees and Reapers), but Banshees are more of a mid/late game unit unless you are doing some two port all-in and Reapers just are not that great anymore.
Dunno if the construction times are all that bad. Maybe the tech lab should come up a bit sooner. The problem is more that if you do decide to tech past barracks into Factory or Starport, the units that you get (except for the Banshee against very specific army compsotions) are not "impact" units-they are support units. This is a night and day difference from, say, anything from the Protoss Robotics Bay or the great Lair units like Hydralisks and Mutalisks.
What this does is kind of prevent the sort of "tech builds" and mech play that was signature in BW as viable options. Since the higher tech units aren't really all that powerful, people stay at the lower tier and go for mass bio instead.
Immobility is a weird issue , because other races don't have to do the same sort of slow push that you do when trying to hit/damage your opponent. A Protoss with a pylon stashed in the center or forward center of the map or a Zerg doing an in-base recall with a Nydus Worm don't have to deal with nearly the sort of reinforcement issues that a Terran push does.
I think it's too early in beta to start making generalizations about how stuff like this is going to play out at release. But to categorize Terran as reactive and less mobile is certainly the case in the beta as it stands now.
Lord Phol
Member
DemiMatt said:
These are good tips but bah protoss needs something for air, banshees just rape stalkers and then they got their cloak so ull need an observer with you everywhere.
It's really annoying because I do so well start/mid game, get to their base take out alot of it but they got banshees and ultimately push me away. After that it's just downhill, don't have gas enough to build an army of stalkers, and they keep hitting your expansions cloaked, taking down nexus and probes.
Anyone have any good viedos PvT?
fifasnipe2224
Member
Scrow said:
F1 shows you an idle worker (scv, probe, and drone)
Space takes you to that last announcement or alert made
Those are 2 of the 3 I know of. Does anyone else have an idea of the controls?
Fragamemnon
Member
Minsc said:
It'll take a month just to get the game from gold master to manufacturing, to be honest.
I still think June/July release seems most likely.
Ice Monkey
Member
lol lord phol i find it amusing that you say toss needs better AA....for BANSHEES. Sure they can cloak but the observer is the best detector in the game! just select one or two and right click on a banshee and they'll be detected forever.
Unfortunately most of the answers involving trouble with strategies in this game come down to just learning to be more pro. For example, you need to scout with some unit and even if it dies in their base you need to know based on what you saw before it died what units they are massing. As soon as you see the starports with tech labs just mass phoenixes!
Seriously if they are massing that many banshees, 5 phoenix shift clicked onto their entire banshee army along with two observers continually following the last two targeted banshees will make short work of them.
It even goes so far that if they can counter that, then your micro likely isn't good enough. If they have 10 banshees and 6 vikings before they attack and you only were able to get 5 phoenix out the door then you waited way too long before starting production or finding out about it through scouting or you didn't make enough phoenix. If the vikings rip apart your phoenixes then you probably didn't +shields and +attack enough.
Don't forget as toss you need to produce ~7 shield batteries to recharge if they use EMP.
Unfortunately most of the answers involving trouble with strategies in this game come down to just learning to be more pro. For example, you need to scout with some unit and even if it dies in their base you need to know based on what you saw before it died what units they are massing. As soon as you see the starports with tech labs just mass phoenixes!
Seriously if they are massing that many banshees, 5 phoenix shift clicked onto their entire banshee army along with two observers continually following the last two targeted banshees will make short work of them.
It even goes so far that if they can counter that, then your micro likely isn't good enough. If they have 10 banshees and 6 vikings before they attack and you only were able to get 5 phoenix out the door then you waited way too long before starting production or finding out about it through scouting or you didn't make enough phoenix. If the vikings rip apart your phoenixes then you probably didn't +shields and +attack enough.
Don't forget as toss you need to produce ~7 shield batteries to recharge if they use EMP.
Lord Phol
Member
Ice Monkey said:
Well I just found out banshees have no air attacks so that should make things easier
.Also been using stargates for the first time, so I guess from now on I'll pump out a few phoenixes just in case.
I'm no pro by any means I'm still learning!
But from what I can tell by forums and such protoss are indeed low on AA, I would like to see stalkers get a dmg boost, if air only.
And terrans always kick my ass
.
Lord Phol
Member
Most often about midgame where things look really good at first, countering their advances, taking out their expansions. But then when I'm about to storm their base my whole army fails, and probably some of my microing as well. But i usually manage to take out about a third of their base and most of their troops so it evens up a bit.ZealousD said:
Nonetheless they seem to get back real fast while I'm startin to starve on either minerals or most likely gas (I would probably have 2-3 bases, somewhat unprotected).
It's probably the base siegeing I'm having the most problems with and some of the harrashment.
And the harrasment, dropships, banshees reapers, hellions, goes on for most of the game :x.
I certianly need to get better in some areas but I do not have the same problems with the other races. Some vidoes would be great.
I'm thinking of perhaps going a bit more of a defensive/starve the other player strategy.
Would be good practice for scouting and reacting as well.
Add: I'm really enjoying my bracket(s) atm, get about 20+ points for a win
.Played 3 1v1 matches, first against Protoss, quick win with a ~14 something zealot rush.
Second against Terran, lost because of marauder harassing in the beginning followed up by battlecruiser spam x.x.
Played a zerg third, took a chance, saw roaches den with my probe, only built one gateway to faster get a robotics bay. Got out some immotals quick as I could with some zealots and a sentry, repeled his attack and went for an all out offensive, with a second bay pumping out immortals and zealots charge-upgrade. Took some time to beat down his base, his drones swarmed and messed up my immortals xD, but won in the end with constant pushing.
The observer I got out in between going on the offensive really helped in scouting and planning my attack.
One of the funniest matches though short
.Love them roach spammers!
TurtleSnatcher
Member
game anyone?
The Lamonster
Member
I'm down for some gaf games. Somebody send me an invite!
Lamonster.zone
edit: yes it's true, I do suck. but still...
Lamonster.zone
edit: yes it's true, I do suck. but still...