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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
DurielBlack
Member
Trasher said:
Well, watching replays is the best way to get some build orders.
I'm still trying to get a feel for how many probes is best before making some of the buildings, so my counts may be off. Also I am at work and cant look at a replay right now.
As a generic build for protoss ground units, I usually do something like the following:
Pylon (duh, make sure you hold off on Chrono Boost until its finished, so you don't waste any of it)
Gateway (around 12 probes?)
Gateway (around 15 probes I think)
Pylon
Extractor (usually around 18 probes, I find I lose count around here)
at least 4-6 zealots
Cybercore and more pylons
On maps with ramps I find 2 sentinels is enough for early defensive play. On maps with wider choke points I like 4. I prefer to make sentinels before Stalkers. Sentinels are pretty much mandatory vs Terran and Zerg, because the defensive bubble sheild that reduces incoming ranged damage. Also the force field isn't just for defense. In team games I like to force my way up the enemy ramp, and leave the sentinels behind to block off enemy reinforcements. Whatever you do you must have something other than zealots and quickly, just in case your opponent is terran and makes reapers which are very nearly OP.
You should also begin researching Warp Gates shortly after getting that Cybercore up, I sometimes Chrono Boost it to get it done faster.
Anyways, once I have a sizeable force of stalker/sentry/zealot its time to make 2 robotic bays and pump out immortals. You will also find it useful to make a minimum of 1 observer for obvious scouting/detection reasons, especially since my style of play doesn't involve making canons. Another alternative of course is to go for a warp prism, send it to the enemy base or expansion, and warp in some zealots for harrassment. This doesnt work as well vs more experienced players. The third option is to make Collossi, but I usually wait until I have a few immortals at least since they are good vs almost anything.
While those two robobays are building you should also be up to around 4-5 gateways with warp gates researched.
Also if playing 2v2 make sure to pop a pylon in your allies base, so you can use warp gates to reinforce him if he's attacked. Pylons stashed in random corners of the map can also help you when you go on the offense so you can reinforce your army.
I dont have any good strats for air. You can also go for templar by substituting the robobays for the required templar buildings.
Man, played some 2v2's for the first time today, just to take a break from all the laddering. Heh, its no surprise, but playing with randoms is a mixed bag, obviously. Its like 90% of them just dont know how to play, or refuse to use any semblance of teamwork. Heh, I had some many classic face palm moments when my teammates say "Just wall off, I'm teching to carriers!" Oh man, 2v2 seems like it could be fun, just gotta half a semi reliable teammate.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Your replays always come up with sync errorsHazaro said:
sasimirobot
Junior Member
Amazing Helion harass and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRkGSFLjww
Zerg comeback!
Yeah I had just found this which seems pretty similar:DurielBlack said:
9 Pylon
10 Queue up 3 Probes and Chrono Boost their production twice in a row.
13 Gateway
14 1st Vespine Gas
16 Pylon
18 Cybernetics Core
18 2nd Vespine Gas
19 Zealot (GET ZEALOT BEFORE CYBERNETICS CORE IF YOUR OPPONENT MIGHT BE AGGRESSIVE)
23 Research Warp Gates
23 Zealot
23ish Pylon
26ish Robotics Facility
27ish Sentry
27ish Chrono Boost Warp Gate research
30 Observer (Chrono Boost ASAP)
31 Gateway
NOTE: Depending on what you want, either get Immortal ASAP or work towards Colossus tech
31ish Immortal right after Observer
36 Make Gateways into Warpgates
36 Immortal
40 Stalker
42 2x Zealot
42 PUSH OPPONENTS BASE
Edit: Btw, got this from Husky.
well i just tried a zergling rush against another zerg on lost temple for the first time.
it actually worked!
i was expecting epic fail on my part, but at this point i don't really care. i've lost so many matches that i'm just happy to experiment with different things now.
by the time i got to his main he'd just put down a hatchery at his natural, so i guess he saved all his minerals for that but had nothing to fight back with (didn't even bother with a spawning pool). he declared gg as soon as his natural went down to only 6 of my zerglings.
i felt kinda bad using a "cheese" tactic like that... but at least that's one win i can chalk up for my placement matches. i'm honestly not expecting many more.
it actually worked!
i was expecting epic fail on my part, but at this point i don't really care. i've lost so many matches that i'm just happy to experiment with different things now.
by the time i got to his main he'd just put down a hatchery at his natural, so i guess he saved all his minerals for that but had nothing to fight back with (didn't even bother with a spawning pool). he declared gg as soon as his natural went down to only 6 of my zerglings.
i felt kinda bad using a "cheese" tactic like that... but at least that's one win i can chalk up for my placement matches.
i'm honestly not expecting many more.TurtleSnatcher
Member
Did you 6 or 10 pool?Scrow said:well i just tried a zergling rush against another zerg on lost temple for the first time.
it actually worked!
i was expecting epic fail on my part, but at this point i don't really care. i've lost so many matches that i'm just happy to experiment with different things now.
by the time i got to his main he'd just put down a hatchery at his natural, so i guess he saved all his minerals for that but had nothing to fight back with (didn't even bother with a spawning pool). he declared gg as soon as his natural went down to only 6 of my zerglings.
i felt kinda bad using a "cheese" tactic like that... but at least that's one win i can chalk up for my placement matches.
Scrow said:well i just tried a zergling rush against another zerg on lost temple for the first time.
it actually worked!
i was expecting epic fail on my part, but at this point i don't really care. i've lost so many matches that i'm just happy to experiment with different things now.
by the time i got to his main he'd just put down a hatchery at his natural, so i guess he saved all his minerals for that but had nothing to fight back with (didn't even bother with a spawning pool). he declared gg as soon as his natural went down to only 6 of my zerglings.
i felt kinda bad using a "cheese" tactic like that... but at least that's one win i can chalk up for my placement matches.
Sounds like he did a fast expand, so probably a 12 or 13 hatch, and was planning to get his pool after that. Your 6 lings means you probably got a 12 pool at the latest, possibly earlier. In Broodwar, 9pool usually beat 12hatch unless the 12hatch guy had insane worker micro. However, SC2 pathing doesn't allow group worker micro anymore, so workers are useless at defending now.
i actually screwed up and did a 7 pool.TurtleSnatcher said:
out of habit as soon as i put my drones on the minerals i produced another drone. immediately i thought to myself, "oh shit, i was meant to save that 50 minerals for a spawning pool!"
but i just let it finish producing the drone and started saving up the 200 minerals for the pool.
continued producing drones and then an overlord at 8/10, and then more drones. as my spawning pool was about to pop up i stopped producing stuff to save up minerals and larva for the zerglings i'd want to produce asap.
once my zerglings were in production and i had enough minerals i immediately started producing a queen so that if my first rush failed i could spawn larva and have a larger force of zerglings to rush with a second time. as it turned out i didn't need that.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
I disagree..Zzoram said:
They are great meat shields agst like a ball of marines as you have hydras and queen sniping from the back. I just did that and it worked great when someone was hitting my natural and i knew i was screwed
infinityBCRT
Member
Oh man, my new laptop (Asus G51JX-A1, 1GB 360M, i7) runs this game better than my desktop (384MB 8800 GTS, i5) and it still has old ass drivers (187.xx, nVidia says new drivers are coming next week), plus I wasn't even running the game on the highest performance. But man, does the laptop exhaust get hot. I think I almost burned my finger by accidentally brushing my hand around the exhaust while playing SC2.
Finished my placement games. Got placed into bronze. I guess I now need to choose a race and learn some BOs. Was kinda clueless most of the time.
Random question: Is there no way to watch other ladders by default? Starting to get confused with this new b.net. Feels like a complete downgrade and not an upgrade.
Random question: Is there no way to watch other ladders by default? Starting to get confused with this new b.net. Feels like a complete downgrade and not an upgrade.
mint said:16 and 21 kills? o_o Nice, nukes?
Just 1, I needed it to scare away his SCV so I could kill his damn planetary fortress.
He went MMM, snipes are killer man...
Here's the replay if anyone is interested - http://senduit.com/7238a7
2v2 Platinum with Pez.
Crisco said:
There is no such thing as a rage quit after being attacked in Starcraft. It's good manner to leave a game you have no chance of winning, to save both parties time. The only time it's a rage quit if they leave BEFORE either side gets attacked, and even then, it's usually because it's 2 top players evenly matched, and one of them makes a huge mistake like accidentally cancelling his expansion just before it finishes.
FromTheFuture
Member
Yes there is. A rage quit would be if someone leaves before their chances are up. IE. That guy kills the CC, but has zero army. The person who was attacked didn't even try, which makes it a ragequit.Zzoram said:
Anyway, I need some help in a PvT situation, what's a good choice to counter Terran Marine/Tank/Banshee? I find Phoenix to be utterly useless in nearly every match up, at any given point in time, so I tend to stray away from them. The unit composition of the Terran rips apart any ground. I was thinking maybe Carriers, but that is incredibly difficult to sustain. One would think there'd be an easy solution, but I'm stuck. Any ideas?
FromTheFuture
Member
Yeah, that's what I was doing. It might have been because I carelessly lost some units before the last fight, but it seemed like the large ground focus (Sieged Tanks, Banshees, ouch, dead ground) just ripped my own ground army to shreds. Also, Storm seems pretty weak against anything except Marines and the like.Zzoram said:
FromTheFuture said:
Apparently tons of people still don't know this, but for air units, you don't target storm on their graphic model, you target storm on their shadow, since that's where they actually are. The graphic is offset from it's actual position due to being above ground. People keep missing Mutas with storm and thinking it sucks because of this.
Storm might not instantly kill anything but infantry, but it weakens Tanks enough that charging Zealots can more easily mop them up. Besides, once the Marines are dead, Terran doesn't have anything to hit your Phoenix that can pick off Banshees.
so let me share this fucking tale with you guys:
me and my buddy were playing 2v2 and (I'm toss hes zerg) and we got a game vs zerg/zerg and they both 6-pooled and attacked my buddy, and by the time I got my first zealots down there it was already over for him.
So I quickly tried to switch over to forge/cannons to wall off to try and buy some time but at that point they already had roaches and it was gg.
Before I quit I mentioned that it was a pretty effective strategy and the other guy said "yeah you were the hardest yet" and the other guy on his team goes "yeah, GJ"
so we re-upped and got a new game against the exact same two guys. and so I went straight for cannons, walled off my expo and had my buddy bring in a few drones so he could set up shop there if things got dicy, and they did. They did the exact same strat and wiped out my friend, and then threw their zergs against my wall-o-cannons and got wiped out.
Unfortunately I was so focused on my front end by the time I remembered to wall off my back door it was already too late and It was a pretty epic struggle to get a GG out of me as I killed almost all their roaches.
So the moral of the story is, if you do a dual six-pool 2v2 you're pretty much guaranteed to win, at least in the lower brackets.
me and my buddy were playing 2v2 and (I'm toss hes zerg) and we got a game vs zerg/zerg and they both 6-pooled and attacked my buddy, and by the time I got my first zealots down there it was already over for him.
So I quickly tried to switch over to forge/cannons to wall off to try and buy some time but at that point they already had roaches and it was gg.
Before I quit I mentioned that it was a pretty effective strategy and the other guy said "yeah you were the hardest yet" and the other guy on his team goes "yeah, GJ"
so we re-upped and got a new game against the exact same two guys. and so I went straight for cannons, walled off my expo and had my buddy bring in a few drones so he could set up shop there if things got dicy, and they did. They did the exact same strat and wiped out my friend, and then threw their zergs against my wall-o-cannons and got wiped out.
Unfortunately I was so focused on my front end by the time I remembered to wall off my back door it was already too late and It was a pretty epic struggle to get a GG out of me as I killed almost all their roaches.
So the moral of the story is, if you do a dual six-pool 2v2 you're pretty much guaranteed to win, at least in the lower brackets.
Kodiak said:
In Broodwar, probes +1 zealot could usually stop that and have you still end up ahead in economy. You'd do it by clumping all your workers together so they could attack together and 1-hit zerglings, while the zerglings. However, SC2 unit AI/pathing makes it impossible to micro workers against Zerglings.
Watching this, I got a question for Pez/Turtle.aznpxdd said:
Why not use the zerglings to break the walls and chase after Purp (the terran you rushed early)?
EDIT: Ah, I see you tried that later. I guess the banshees would've seen you anyway.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Halycon said:
He had banshees so either way he would have seen since his Factory was just floating right above.. Those rocks would have taken 3+ minutes for my zlings to break.
Really wished I got his Starports before hand.. oh well.. That was a pretty shit game for me
2v2 6 pool is not guaranteed.. Hell Dual Proxy is not guaranteed. If you scout early and notice it.. they can be totally fucked.
FromTheFuture
Member
Nukes don't say "Nuclear Launch Detected" anymore? How the fuck are you supposed to know if it doesn't say?! Fucking bullshit.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
FromTheFuture said:
I think you can still hear the missle firing and the "Alarm" noise.. Its not extremely audible but you can hear it.
FromTheFuture
Member
Isn't it supposed to have both? I assume so because that's how things worked in SC1, and without that message I find nukes to be imbalanced, because you have to be looking in the right place at the exact right time, and if you're red or something, you won't see shit. God, I keep losing to stupid shit, it's incredibly frustrating.stormer said:
If you're supposed to depend on audio, what kind of bullshit is that? I didn't hear a thing, probably cause, I don't know, I have 20+ units fighting right on the other side of my base?TurtleSnatcher said:
Fuck it. Anyone want to play 2v2?
FromTheFuture
Member
So it's not imbalanced to shoot nukes and have nearly no notification whatsoever that all of your units are about to die? There's other ways to make it more useful, hell, it's a lot more useful now, but removing any indication of it happening is not the correct way to go.Pandaman said:
There are plenty of real reasons why Ghosts/Nukes were useless in SC1:
1. Both Ghosts and Nukes were at the very end of the tech tree
2. Ghosts were not as useful (no EMP shot, etc)
3. Nuclear Silos required an attachment to the CC
4. Nuke building took forever
5. And since all of it was so late game, one would most likely have plenty of detection/defense to protect against it.
I thought you could just hit space to find out where it launched?FromTheFuture said:
But I guess you mean you are missing the audio... it's pretty clear.
Also I found this interesting. 43% of people who voted in the TL poll (over 2,500) have beta keys!
*It's not imbalanced because you need cloak + nuke + ghost. That's a lot of time and gas.
You mean no beta keysHazaro said:I thought you could just hit space to find out where it launched?
But I guess you mean you are missing the audio... it's pretty clear.
Also I found this interesting. 43% of people who voted in the TL poll (over 3,000) have beta keys!
*It's not imbalanced because you need cloak + nuke + ghost. That's a lot of time and gas.
I mean 43% have keysmint said:
[Oh my number was wrong]Poll says 57% don't.
Breakdown is neat too.
I think Future is mentioning there is no glaring NUCLEAR LAUNCH DETECTED TEXT.
Which I think there is... but your 'Unit Complete' pops up in the same place constantly so it's not that jarring OH GOD OH GOD it used to be?
FromTheFuture
Member
If there is an alert, I didn't hear it. At all. And i was listening very intently as I knew he had Ghosts. Also, Pandaman, if there is a notice, all your points are moot because apparently Blizzard agrees with me. This game is just so unbelievably buggy still. But I guess it is beta after all.