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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
Everyone on the EU-servers.
EU:
CidHighwind89 --- Battosai.blood
fanboi --- fanboi.gaf
msv --- msv.snikkel
Ozorov --- Ozorov.gaf
PNstyle --- pnSTYLE.dima
poserdonut --- poserdonut.milkdud
Syoaran --- Syoaran.syo
Won --- Won.tollo
Zoukka --- zoukka.fin
Feel free to add each other (I guess...)
EU:
CidHighwind89 --- Battosai.blood
fanboi --- fanboi.gaf
msv --- msv.snikkel
Ozorov --- Ozorov.gaf
PNstyle --- pnSTYLE.dima
poserdonut --- poserdonut.milkdud
Syoaran --- Syoaran.syo
Won --- Won.tollo
Zoukka --- zoukka.fin
Feel free to add each other (I guess...)
BlueScrote
Member
Playing random 2v2 is so useless. Its one of two outcomes it seems:
1. Rush and game over
2. Rush fails so everyone masses up for 1 battle at the end.
I'm attempting to learn zerg, but I can't for the life of me figure out what to mix besides roach/hydras mid game.
1. Rush and game over
2. Rush fails so everyone masses up for 1 battle at the end.
I'm attempting to learn zerg, but I can't for the life of me figure out what to mix besides roach/hydras mid game.
legend166 said:
WAHHHH... you were in the key begging thread but havent even bothered to do research while waiting? bahhh.... man. comon.
for everyone else waiting: there is a offline AI you can play that is better than SC1's AI. actually there are multiple different ones, along with CPU allies, 8 and 12 player maps, and money maps.
mcrae said:
I can't remember the last time I did in depth research of a game before I actually played it. I'm not that type of person. For example, I'm excited as hell for Galaxy 2 and Other M and haven't even watched those latest trailers.
I've got 10 years to play Starcraft 2, no need to go nuts before the game is even out
Vaporak said:
Early scouting? Get on their probe as soon as you see it, don't let him setup shop, etc. Even if you have to attack his probe with your own probes, you should be able to shut your opponent down before he can get really annoying.
Also, players that do that usually buckle pretty easily if you can put any kind of pressure on their base, since they're wasting resources spamming cannons at your main.
LaneDS said:
scouting won't help as his scouting probe is what lays down the buildings. And the only way to catch his probe would be to take all mine off of mining and entrap his 1 probe from all sides as probes can't catch other probes. AKA, he wins the resource war like I said. It just seems like a strategy with no down sides at worst and wins the game at best.
Vaporak said:
If you take all your probes off the mineral line to take out their pylon, then yes, you'll be slightly behind in minerals but then your opponent will be supply blocked so with that time they're putting up an additional pylon you'll be able to catch up in resources.
I may be wrong if I'm not reading the situation quite correctly.
*Edit* Pandaman's got it right.
attack his base. it costs alot more minerals to cannon rush then it does to built two zealots and run out with a probe and 400 minerals.Vaporak said:
you kill his base, setup shop elsewhere, he's stuck with a bunch of useless photon cannons and has to wait for you to eventually come kill him.
Vaporak said:
You shouldn't need to pull your entire probe line to take out one of his probes. Stopping it from happening is the best strategy, and then like I and Pandaman said, pressure their base since they're wasting resources on that nonsense.
It's frustrating shit though, no question.
You can't attack his base if he's got cannons in yours.
You have to destroy the ones in your base or bail out.
You need a minimum of 2 workers, heavily mico-managed, to chase down one.
The protoss build mechanic (drop and go) makes rushing a winning proposition, even if it's expensive.
If you get rushed and you don't have at least 2 marines / 2 zealots / 4 lings up before the cannon begins to be built, you're fucked. Your only hope if it happens is to move all workers off the minerals and hit the pylon(s), then the probe.
It's cheese, and it's extremely effective.
I for one would want to see workers have their move speed cut in half when they're far away from a friendly command center/hatchery/nexus.
You have to destroy the ones in your base or bail out.
You need a minimum of 2 workers, heavily mico-managed, to chase down one.
The protoss build mechanic (drop and go) makes rushing a winning proposition, even if it's expensive.
If you get rushed and you don't have at least 2 marines / 2 zealots / 4 lings up before the cannon begins to be built, you're fucked. Your only hope if it happens is to move all workers off the minerals and hit the pylon(s), then the probe.
It's cheese, and it's extremely effective.
I for one would want to see workers have their move speed cut in half when they're far away from a friendly command center/hatchery/nexus.
Not sure if you guys are playing some weird April Fool's joke but if someone's offensive cannoning you the only thing you can do (and the correct thing to do) is to pull workers and kill the cannons and his worker. You will not be behind on resources if you do so because he's had a probe sent way early and likely had to cut probes to afford the cannons. Just denying the cannons means that you're at a huge advantage. Plus, by killing the cannons you force him to cannon up at home because he's going to have no combat units so he'll have to start building gateways and all; again, he'll have to cut probes just to survive.
If you somehow see it late, then simply countering as pandaman suggested is the correct move. Not only will the enemy have absolutely nothing at home, attacking the cannons is effectively throwing away your units since you're probably not going to have a sufficient force.
If you somehow see it late, then simply countering as pandaman suggested is the correct move. Not only will the enemy have absolutely nothing at home, attacking the cannons is effectively throwing away your units since you're probably not going to have a sufficient force.
BlueScrote
Member
I keep getting steamrolled in ZvP by Immortals and Stalkers. I haven't had much luck with lings/roaches/hydras. Mutas maybe?
Make a ton of lings + Hydras.BlueScrote said:
Use roaches to hold off the initial Zealot push (I'm going to assume you are going FE).
Stalkers and Immortals both do + damage to armor and lings and hydras are light and the immortals take almost full damage from hydras.
Ice Monkey
Member
BlueScrote said:
you arent making enough lings. one thing i notice a lot of zerg players do before they wise up is trying to counter anything with lings when you only have like 1 maybe 2 hatcheries. lings are only effective in swarms, so basically you need to either have a second hatch and very good queen larva macro (one queen per hatch) and/or 2 or 3 extraneous hatches in your main.
lings in enough mass are an easy counter to stalkers and immortals. with the amount of minerals a protoss player spent on a single stalker you could have bought 5 lings. for a single immortal? 10! plus you will have spent no gas on such an equal army. If you don't have something remotely equal to him, you will lose in an army battle with him.
BlueScrote
Member
Hazaro said:
Ice Monkey said:
Looks like I will have to try using more en mass lings when I see that coming. Thanks for the tips. Are single speed upgraded lings the recommended scout tactic early mid game? Overlords are too slow even with the speed upgrade it seems.
If the Protoss fast techs and doesn't know that he has to wall, you can just win the game right there with zerglings by breaking his ramp. And without sentries, a roach/ling or roach/hydra/ling army of equal cost will dominate stalker/immo as long as you can focus the immos.
why not?Mudkips said:
if you're getting cannon rushed in your choke you've got a whole host of problems unrelated to the issue at hand. if he cannon rushes you beneath your choke and tries to cannon creep you, just lol and take your free win. the only cannon rushes that should be a problem are stealth rushes in your base, inwhich case walk out and collect your win just like before.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Ice Monkey said:
I feel like you didn't really get the gist of what I was saying. Trasher hit the point, and I think you said it too in your last paragraph. Shift-clicking in a circle is not difficult or micro intensive, it's fire and forget. You see what buildings are going down and it comes back, done. At that level of competition losing 10 seconds (extremely generous estimate for shift-clicking in a circle) + another 5 to look at it isn't going to lose you the game. (Sorry for this being months behind)
ElectricBlue187
Member
I got in the Beta. Fuck yes, no more playing Brood War and dreaming of how awesome SC2 will be
ElectricBlue187
Member
Zzoram said:
April 1st, 6:51pm HST
Unless Blizzard is playing a nasty (and elaborate, as I'm already downloading the client) april fools joke
Ice Monkey
Member
Procarbine said:
i agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I guess where we differ is how we view "new at the game". When I first started playing starcraft and war3 again in feb, i had a lot to learn. I was REALLY new at the game. At that point I could barely keep up with the whole trying to keep my base running when I get attacked. For a long while, not only did I think 1 worker per mineral was great, but I would actively try to keep it that way. I barely expanded and never harassed, and i was terrible at zerg.
Anyways I don't mean to go into my whole life story. I've gotten to a point where despite how so very not pro it is, i pretty much don't scout. Part of this is how i play zerg, i mass hatcheries and build units on demand depending on what i see when the enemy attacks. I also don't mean to act like the way i play is awesome or something but I'm doing very well for not really scouting at all.
Now obviously i'm biased towards the way i've been playing, but I think one thing that i've noticed is when i concentrate on my base and reacting to what happens, attacking with lings and roaches and hydras and mutas and rebuilding based on what the enemy army makeup is, I think i've gotten better considerably faster than if I would have been breaking up my play by sending in drones and such to scout.
I've been winning a lot of games, sure I'm not at a platinum level but I think based on the way I play, you can expect to win a majority of your games if you just cut out scouting training until you're ready.
One of these days, I'll be ready to seriously consider scouting if I think it would help me at all, but so far the ONLY games I've lost I know for a fact scouting them wouldn't have helped me in any way.
I actually just lost a game to constant nuke harass that after the first nuke that didn't do much damage at all I could not for the life of me figure out how to reliably stop it. I tried my best but it wasn't good enough. Overseer running around everywhere, spore crawlers, the works I couldn't beat it. So in that instance, I need to figure out how to counter nuke harass very effectively before I bother trying to scout it out as if that would do anything other than tell me i ought to just quit if I care about winning. Besides, let's assume I could have seen the ghost academy. OK, so what? My teammate was protoss so he could've been just getting them for EMP. As soon as a nuke lands somewhere I'm in the same exact position as if I'd have scouted it.
I lost two or three other games, the only ones other than the ghost harass I've lost tonight and guess why? They were both zerg. Hmm, I wonder what they could exploit as both zerg? I didn't even need to scout them to prepare for what I knew could be coming. My barracks was still finishing as terran before I got double teamed by two sets of 6 lings. GG that was fun. I should mention that I tried to build a barracks and wall quickly but failed, so IMHO i need to find out how to counter 6 pool ling attacks before I bother trying to scout them to see it coming. The second game, I was zerg and, expecting the same thing just as the first game, actually I managed to hold off two separate attacks of lings, and slaughtered three of the one idiot's overlords with queens as I expertly held my ramp with lings but in the end they just ended up overwhelming me and it was GG again. Who knows how I was supposed to do something different against that but I guarantee you I would have been even worse off than utter defeat if i had stupidly sent a drone in to see it coming and then fail even harder. It would seem to me I need to know exactly what I'm supposed to do to counter such a tactic before scouting for it becomes helpful.
Sorry for the huge rant, but I really still fail to see how you could spend time and effort trying to scout before you even know how to counter something you would scout. I'm still struggling with that, how to win when you know what's coming. Maybe my experience is anecdotal but I can't think of a single game in the past maybe 20 or 30 games I've played where scouting the enemy would have actually helped me win in any way. I always go for xelnaga towers and such so i can usually see attacks coming, and again maybe it's anecdotal but I've never once found myself thinking "oh damn, he made THAT? well all I have is lings so I'm dead. shoulda made roaches instead." or the other way around, or anything else for that matter involving needing to have scouted. Maybe it's because lings and roaches are great to mix and match, hydras aren't as good as mutas but are easier on the gas and i haven't seen mmm balls lately that would suggest to me that i should have gone banelings which i hardly ever do.
Excellent game, Artosis vs Voidwards, displaying the strength of sentries in an army composition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwz9hh3Ch8c&playnext_from=TL&videos=Ds6uF_fC248
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wwz9hh3Ch8c&playnext_from=TL&videos=Ds6uF_fC248
Sirpopopop
Member
I just got an SC2 beta invite as well.
Too bad I have work today.
Too bad I have work today.
MeshuggahMan
Member
Corum said:
Wow that was awesome. That one battle with voidwards trapping all the roaches inbetween the force fields and colossi burning right in that line... amazing. Might just be the biggest sentry army I've seen in replays.
I think my new favorite thing to do during my morning coffee is to watch replays.
scouting isnt just about countering, its about knowing when to attack.Ice Monkey said:
if you scout a nuke early, what do you know?
well, you know that nukes, cloak and ghosts eat up alot of vespene, so his dropships are going to be slow and either his maruader count will be very low or he wont have stim as quickly. so attack. don't bother speccing to counter nukes, just move in and kill him now. Nuke builds need to conserve gas, so roll him with tier 1.5.
TurtleSnatcher
Member
Unless they are Deltron then just gg and give upPandaman said:
ZealousD said:
In a 1v1 it can put you just as behind as the rusher.
In a 2v2 the rusher's ally can come finish you easily.
If they coordinate their rush well, there's nothing your partner can do at this point. By the time his units get to your base, your shit will be wrecked.
Rushing is the bane of RTS games. And so very few do anything to try to mitigate it.
My suggestion (workers' move speed gets reduced when far away from their own/ally's base) is easy to implement, will give defenders an advantage when it comes to base rushing, and will have little to no effect on other aspects of the game.
Mudkips said:
Except it actually puts the rusher MORE behind, because they're foodblocked and they have to spend the time building another pylon. And remember, pylon+worker is 150 minerals. You likely aren't losing much more minerals than that by attacking their pylon. In addition, building the forge first means they're behind in the unit count.
In 2v2, your partner should probably be sending units in anticipation that you'll get hit again. Or at the very least, send units to mid.
No, actually, it'll make it a bit harder to expand.
If this strategy really was so safe, protoss players would be doing it every game.
But they don't.