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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
well the RL name shouldnt be there....but nothing major by seeing what type of game they are playing or last time online...thats just basic shit thats on psn.live now a days :/Ashhong said:
Corran Horn said:
well your friends have to accept your request on XBL and PSN yea?
i mean i dont see anything wrong with it, but maybe they do. say i found out HD's identifier, they dont want me to be able to see what hes doing i guess. would be nice to give us options on what to allow people to see
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
ya but I just honestly see what the issue would be? Maybe limit cant see his friends list but who cares if some random person sees if I havnt been online for 10 hours? I just hate how this stuff is from Real ID friends only, which then shows your RL name etcAshhong said:
MisterAnderson
Member
ZealousD said:
I think the size of the map from that first picture is a little misleading. The map is actually pretty large. Here's some pictures that demonstrate (and hopefully resolve) your issues with you thinking the map is cramped.
The natural expansion is far from cramped I'd say, and switching the rocks to be in the northern area wouldn't work because I changed the layout to accommodate left side vs right side 2v2 (and 1v1). All it would do is deny you quick access to your teammate's base until you destroyed the rocks.
The smoke areas are useful in Scrap Station, so I decided to split the choke up with it since there was room and it was either put something there or have a huge ass choke point to defend.
Unless I'm wrong, the island expansion seems standard "island" sized, like Lost Temple or something.
Hazaro said:I like it!
It favors map control which is nice, but has the back routes available.
If I had to suggest something it would be to make it so the towers cannot see if someone cuts to the rocks on the top/bottom and flanks... but that might not be possible since I also want the highground between the main and the 3rd to be longer (to allow more time for units at main to travel to make it more exposed). Possibly move the towers close to middle to create the choke instead of the 2 holes?
I'm also wondering what the island expos are for in a 2v2? It seems just like a free expo for Terran, but then Lost Temple has them too(And they can be hopped over with blink which is good)
Since Tinypic is down here is my wonderful fixed representation of the map.
I added 2 extra green dots but those are decorative.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8739/amazingsciimap.jpg
Haha thanks for the image to help me out. I did what you said (I think?) and extended the ledge with the tower on it and shifted it up towards the middle more to ensure that the rocky backdoors aren't covered under the vision. Here's the before and after:
Before:
After:
The "before" pretty much had them JUST outside of range but moving it up I think was good because it kept it completely out of range. But now the tower grants vision to the middle high yield expansion's vespene geysers, making the middle expansion even more high risk now.
Here's an image of what I changed. I took Zealous' advice too and rotated the mineral line around.
Is this good? Only thing I'm worried about is the extended wall makes the natural choke a little smaller, but I think it's still wide enough to not be a big issue.
Edit: Eek. Sorry for all the images. I thought I made them smaller than that. Also regarding your issue with the island expansions. I guess you're right with them pretty much being "free" in a 2v2 especially to Terran, but I had the room and pretty much had them already built from the earlier version, so figured I'd just make them island expansions since Lost Temple has two of them, and one of those is free to a Terran pretty much as well. Also the way the towers are set up, the middle is a blind spot so the enemy could send a drop ship/air force/whatever through that blind spot to hit it by surprise. I also put that high ledge on the inner part to make it vulnerable to siege/collosus/etc. while keeping it close enough to the mainland that Stalkers can blink to it. Do you think I should just remove them?
MisterAnderson said:
That mineral line looks... off... somehow. In particular is that mineral that's touching the wall. Looks like it could be cleaned up a bit, maybe move that top gas closer to the minerals, too?
Anyway, the visual aids helped, natural doesn't look as cramped to me anymore. I guess all you need to do is play with the resources a bit. Maybe move the gas on the islands closer to the minerals, too?
Also I'm not so sure that extending that wall really helped. It made the travel distance longer, but it also created a choke...
MisterAnderson
Member
ZealousD said:
Whether the gas is on the mineral line or not, the way it is now is the closest the editor allows me to place the geyser relative to a town hall building. If you think I should put the gas closer to the minerals for aesthetic reasons or if you don't like them where they are though, then I def could try it. And yeah, I can move the minerals up a bit so they aren't so close to the wall. I left enough room to build a couple of turrets but the more room the better.
Same thing for the island though, I definitely could put the vespene guysers on the mineral line but I figured room next to the minerals would be best left for room for defenses. Aren't two vespene guysers on the opposite side of the mineral line a standard way of having resources set up? Like the high yield in Kulas Ravine comes to mind.
Edit: Does this look better?
MisterAnderson said:
I'm just concerned you need a little more space back there. You need just enough room in the back for possible defenses or breathing room for some kinda of harassment drop. You don't want to block the path of a unit trying to move behind the minerals either.
Kulas is the only map that comes to mind. But I figured moving the gas might give you more breathing room on the right side for buildings. I think the gas placement on kulas is to make the high yields slightly more defendable and not expose the refineries.
MisterAnderson said:
Edit: Doubling up isn't what I mean. I was just thinking that the one gas looked too far away from the minerals. I was thinking that the gas should have been where that thor was sitting in the middle.
BTW, I have a name for your map. Lotus Station.
Each expansion is layered a bit like the petals of a lotus flower, and you've got a real bright yellow center with the double high yield.
just tried out the mac beta on my 13" MBP with the 9400m. default settings are low. i could have sworn that the default were a little higher when i tried it in bootcamp. it runs.....ok but it looks like absolute shit. the textures are so horrible lol, and i never realized how much shadows add. the command center looks like its floating
MisterAnderson
Member
ZealousD said:
The gas can't be that close, where I have them placed now is as close as the editor allows it to be to the town hall. I can change the positioning of them though, but I figured the way they were doubled up kept them the least exposed. I'll try moving the island expansion geysers on the mineral line to get some more breathing room on the right for buildings, though.
Is the mineral placement at least better in that picture?
I kinda like it. Maybe Lotus Station? Or something... what's another word I can sub out of Station so it's not so similar to Scrap Station?
MisterAnderson
Member
Ashhong said:
Bailout
And while we're on the topic of Anderson's map, here's my fourth map! (It's also the first and last 6 player custom map I will ever make.)
[Newer image of the map is a few posts below]
This map took FOREVER to make because of my stubborn self-motivation to make the map balanced for 3v3, 2v2, 1v1, and FFA all at the same time, I just wanted the map to be very flexible when it comes to modes. 3v3 is played out left vs right as is 2v2 and 1v1. As for FFA I tired my best to keep it balanced and I think I did an okay job. Since the two middle players on each side will immediately have both the players to the top and bottom of themselves to worry about, I made sure that they had high ground even on their natural expansion. As for the corner players who don't feel like taking that on immediately, I made a small path to the side of each middle players base that can also act as a quick "help" route for team games. Lastly, The middle of the field is pretty much open ground, most hotspots for fights will most likely be the "bridges" in the center along with the two rich mineral expansions in addition to all the fights near the statues of Mengsk. Oh and there are also little ditch areas behind each corner base for stashing important buildings or for dropping off sneak attacks with dropships, warp prisms, etc.
Anyways analyze it, tell me what you like, and let me know what you think I could do to improve it.
Up next... the Mar Sara tileset.
[Newer image of the map is a few posts below]
This map took FOREVER to make because of my stubborn self-motivation to make the map balanced for 3v3, 2v2, 1v1, and FFA all at the same time, I just wanted the map to be very flexible when it comes to modes. 3v3 is played out left vs right as is 2v2 and 1v1. As for FFA I tired my best to keep it balanced and I think I did an okay job. Since the two middle players on each side will immediately have both the players to the top and bottom of themselves to worry about, I made sure that they had high ground even on their natural expansion. As for the corner players who don't feel like taking that on immediately, I made a small path to the side of each middle players base that can also act as a quick "help" route for team games. Lastly, The middle of the field is pretty much open ground, most hotspots for fights will most likely be the "bridges" in the center along with the two rich mineral expansions in addition to all the fights near the statues of Mengsk. Oh and there are also little ditch areas behind each corner base for stashing important buildings or for dropping off sneak attacks with dropships, warp prisms, etc.
Anyways analyze it, tell me what you like, and let me know what you think I could do to improve it.
Feedback on my previous 3 maps are still welcome too *hint hint*
Up next... the Mar Sara tileset.
Like I said, tried to balance FFA and 3v3 team games. :lolZealousD said:
I'm assuming worse case scenario for player 5 and 6 in the case that the two players to the north and south decide to both go straight for the middle players first. Though again, this is FFA I'm talking about, in 3v3 this map is as balanced as it can get going left-to-right.
MrMister said:
FFA seems like a disaster on this map man, I'm sorry. I guess if they're taking hits from both sides it's not so imbalanced, but just seems to much is left to random chance here. Hell, the middle player has free reign to siege the naturals on both sides. Or hell, put some cannons on the edge and it's GG for ever thinking about putting an expansion there.
These same imbalances would apply to 2v2 matchups as well. Take the middle ground between your opponents and set up shop!
3v3 may be balanced going from left to right, but the middle players will end up playing fundamentally different from their teammates.
Sorry man, your map just seems conceptually flawed to me. =/
I kinda think it would be pretty sweet for a 3v3 when going left vs right. You have to decide whether you want to take out one of the corner guys first because it might be easier, or you could rush the guy in the middle in order to take him out before he can turtle up and set up shop up there.ZealousD said:
Dreams-Visions
Member
que?Ashhong said:
MisterAnderson
Member
MrMister said:
I think it would be a lot more balanced if, like Zealous said, the middle players didn't have a much easier to defend natural. Maybe if you widened the choked ramps at least to make it harder to defend? I think in your effort to accommodate the fact that they were between two others in FFA, you might have gave them a huge advantage, even in FFA mode. Otherwise I like all the little things you put in there, like the backdoor quick passageway to either be used as a backdoor surprise attack in FFA/1v1 or a quicker/safer access to move troops to and from your teams' bases in 3v3 and 2v2.
One suggestion I'd have is to either make the middle bridge one wide bridge or to instead make that area more of a wide open space in general. I don't see the middle being used very much since the bridges would handicap any army traveling to attack, if it was me I'd just always go around.
Edit: Damn I didn't catch that the middle could easily siege/attack the adjacent expansions like Zealous pointed out. That's a huge advantage to the middle for sure.
And Zealous/Haz, here is a little image of some more changes. If you could give me your thoughts on them I'd appreciate it. (I moved the geysers to the mineral line on the islands, and extended platform of the back of the natural expansion to get the geysers closer to the minerals). I would put one of the geysers on the red X but I personally think it would make that choke more cramped, and also put the geyser in harms way to attack? I think by doubling them up and putting them out of the way it makes more room to build/less clutter when attacking/defending the main choke. Also, should I connect the island expansion elevated platform to the other side to allow Reaper/Collosus attacks? Or keep a small gap to keep it safe from that but only vulnerable to drops/air?
Gas on the naturals looks PERFECT now.
Anyway, on the walls, that's not the choke I was referring to. It seemed like that the top/bottom expansions had a defendable choke. In 1v1, I could see how somebody might choose those expansions over the natural if it had a nice choke.
Connect the island expansions. Mineral placement does quite a bit to help defend vs reapers and colossi, but I like the idea of using those unit abilities to harass those expos.
Edit: Confused some of your comments on his map with your own. Whoops.
Anyway, on the walls, that's not the choke I was referring to. It seemed like that the top/bottom expansions had a defendable choke. In 1v1, I could see how somebody might choose those expansions over the natural if it had a nice choke.
Connect the island expansions. Mineral placement does quite a bit to help defend vs reapers and colossi, but I like the idea of using those unit abilities to harass those expos.
Edit: Confused some of your comments on his map with your own. Whoops.
Shalashaska161
Member
Great. The Mac beta finally comes out, and I still don't get in. And I have an Mac with an actual GPU! Ugh well at least finals are over now so I can just go live at my buddies house and play it there.
I thought you put the geysers there so the gas could be denied from the high ground?
Same goes for the minerals on the 3rd because they could be denied from the high ground, but you'd get the gas. Also the 3rd shouldn't be as safe as the 2nd imo.
Map control in the center gives you the protection you need for your 3rd so it's ok for the minerals there to be exposed.
I also think the choke is fine since it is only your expansion and the rocks can be broken or they can simply try to flank / or take the middle and their own expos.
Same goes for the minerals on the 3rd because they could be denied from the high ground, but you'd get the gas. Also the 3rd shouldn't be as safe as the 2nd imo.
Map control in the center gives you the protection you need for your 3rd so it's ok for the minerals there to be exposed.
I also think the choke is fine since it is only your expansion and the rocks can be broken or they can simply try to flank / or take the middle and their own expos.
Alright I made some changes, mainly to the middle players and I also made the bridges slightly wider as Anderson stated.
"Disaster Plaza"
Now the ramps to the first section of 'middle mountain' are wider as to make it harder to 'wall off' and defend. I also made a high wall between the bottom and middle naturals as well as dipping the middle natural down a cliff height. This enables the bottom player to set up long range units opposite of the small chasm near the smoke vents to bomb the natural.
Also, I can't wait to play my maps, as well as other maps made by you guys, when the BNet publishing comes into effect with all of you. CUSTOM
MAPS FTW
"Disaster Plaza"
Now the ramps to the first section of 'middle mountain' are wider as to make it harder to 'wall off' and defend. I also made a high wall between the bottom and middle naturals as well as dipping the middle natural down a cliff height. This enables the bottom player to set up long range units opposite of the small chasm near the smoke vents to bomb the natural.
Also, I can't wait to play my maps, as well as other maps made by you guys, when the BNet publishing comes into effect with all of you. CUSTOM
MELEE
Hazaro said:
Again, I was referring to the choke on the 3rd.
http://i42.tinypic.com/x5xrif.jpg
Look at the spacing between the wall on the left and the center high ground where the tower is. That looks tight enough to build a couple structures in to make a very defendable choke.
mescalineeyes
Banned
Ashhong said:
you have got to be kidding me.
First Quake Live, now this too runs better under Windows. Getting a bit annoyed.
MisterAnderson
Member
Hazaro said:
That was the initial idea, so you think the gas on the islands should be put back to be near the high ground? And the minerals on the 3rd expansion is better the way it was?
And regarding the choke and what Zealous has been pointing out. The choke for the third is more easily defend-able with that wall extension, but I definitely like the idea of making the travel time to the 3rd more, so I'm not quite sure what to do...
Edit: Regarding the map edit for MrMister's Plaza, can siege tanks/units shoot through high walls if it has vision? Like if siege tanks were in siege mode behind that middle natural wall but you had vision of the other side with a floating barracks or whatever, would that work?
MisterAnderson said:
You know, if the minerals were back at their original position, the choke wouldn't be as big of a problem anymore. My main idea was that I didn't want people choosing the 3rd over their natural. But if you exploit the high ground to rain on the mineral line, that might discourage that.
I wasn't sure of this myself, I don't think so though if it's two cliff heights high.MisterAnderson said:
Also my next map is gonna be 3 players, but I'm not doing anything complicated this time, just a straight up melee map. It'll be similar to Spit Shine Station.
Need more feedback on maps...
MisterAnderson
Member
ZealousD said:
Okay, so here's my thinking. I'll leave the choke as is, but I rotated the minerals back around so that they are more vulnerable from the choke, and from the high ledge. I outlined all of the downsides to the third expansion and I have to say the natural is definitely the better choice, so I think it should be balanced:
And I moved the geysers on the island back to opposite end (but made the platform a bit larger/made it look more natural due to my changing it to be rocky). I think it's best to leave the geysers exposed to attack from the ledge.
Edit: What do you think about the name "Lotus Prime"?
Hey look on the bright side! You don't have to face any high-level Korean players! :lolevlcookie said:
Anyways... new map! (And yea this was pretty damn fast to create. Simple map, simpler to make.)
I introduce you to the only 3-player map I will probably make for a long time...
"Trisect Canyon"
This map was designed just to be very straight forward. Air is essential and the expansions are as well, the center Xel'naga tower also gives you a big scouting boost. In light of limited expansions, I decided to give each player 10 starting mineral fields instead of the standard 8 to make up for the lost natural. Otherwise, huge rich mineral expansions await.
Hope you all like it and want to play it!
This map I rushed to make because I'm not a big fan of the Mar Sara tileset. Up next... the Monolyth tileset. I'll start a new map for that tomorrow. Until then, questions, comments, concerns?
Vangu Vegro
Member
Now I've seen it all.
Someone actually flew his Command Center into my base right at the start and tried to SCV-rush me.
Someone.
Actually.
Did.
This.
(and got taken out by my first batch of Zerglings).
Someone actually flew his Command Center into my base right at the start and tried to SCV-rush me.
Someone.
Actually.
Did.
This.
(and got taken out by my first batch of Zerglings).