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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
Need 6 more players in the EU tournament:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21117962#post21117962
Come on now!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21117962#post21117962
Come on now!
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Something weird with the client. Every time I exit after playing a game it locks up and I have to close it in task manager. Each time I have done this I have noticed that the game is using 1.5gb of memory which is pretty crazy.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
rhfb said:
I block off my entrance completely if I am playing against Zerg or Random. That tends to stop 6ling rushes.
Someone tried to reaper rush me as zerg with a proxy rax.
Was funny, my queen popped, and I injected larva, then my first 4 lings popped, then the reaper jumped up and got owned.
I also did a phoenix rush against a zerg player on scrap station. It was ridiculous. I took my first 3 chronoboosted phoenixes, sniped his queen and killed every single one of his OLs.
I was just camping my phoenixes over his hatch popping every OL that spawned as he was trying to replace them. Eventually i had like 7-8 phoenixes camped out, so i started lifting his drones and popping them.
I felt so evil, but yet so good.:lol :lol
Was funny, my queen popped, and I injected larva, then my first 4 lings popped, then the reaper jumped up and got owned.
I also did a phoenix rush against a zerg player on scrap station. It was ridiculous. I took my first 3 chronoboosted phoenixes, sniped his queen and killed every single one of his OLs.
I was just camping my phoenixes over his hatch popping every OL that spawned as he was trying to replace them. Eventually i had like 7-8 phoenixes camped out, so i started lifting his drones and popping them.
I felt so evil, but yet so good.:lol :lol
Ridli said:
Supply Depots and buildings you can lift off, ie mostly Barracks, occasionally Factory. The addons can be used in a wall but they're quite weak so you'd better reinforce the wall with some depots anyway.
The usual build is a Barracks on the ramp and a depot or two to seal it completely.
Ridli said:
Assuming he is terran, he walls off with a barracks and either a supply depot or the addon(or both if its a wide choke). 1-2 marines behind the wall can hold off any early zergling rush if you get the wall in done in time.
When you need to get out you just drop the depot or lift the rax.
Also you can set the rally point to either side of the building, so units spawn on the outside or the inside. This is only really relevant for a 2 gate zealot rush on certain maps, as otherwise protoss would leave a little gap and use sentries to help with the wall in. Or do what I do, and just build all my early buildings around my minerals so there aren't many gaps for early harrassing units to get to my probes.
NovemberMike
Member
Ridli said:
If you are protoss the standard ramp block is to have two buildings (pylon and gate or pylon and cyber core are the most common) blocking the ramp so that there is a single space between. You can stick a zealot in here and nothing can run past him until he dies.
So, I got into my first extended game. 34 minutes, I came out the winner.
But, whereas I feel I'm moving with purpose and direction for the first eight minutes, things got extremely awkward for me following that. Only the relative weakness of my opponent kept me in the game until I was able to eke out a victory.
1) In the beginning, he busted out a little zoomy car thing (Terran) to roll around and harass my Probes. I had severe trouble tracking it down (it was fast) with the Zealots and Stalkers I was rolling at the time, and it almost did irreparable harm to my economy. What's the best defense against this? A photon cannon right behind the crystals?
2) After that, the game degraded into he and I harassing each other with medium size forces (~8-12 units) every five or so minutes. We'd destroy some units and some outlying structures, then the force would die, then the reverse would happen, and we'd move on. Is this what should be happening? Should I be amassing everything for a larger strike, or continuously sending units as I make them to screw him up?
3) Regarding resources, I felt like I had ten trillion crystals, but no Vespene. Should this be happening? I was tapping out all the Assimilators, I feel like, 3 probes per. I guess building so many probes is useless beyond a certain point.
4) As I expanded out to my second (and then third) nexus, I was having severe trouble selecting options. The tech tree seems to branch out like a goddamn Sequoia in late-game, and I had absolutely no idea what to do. Let's say he was kicking out standard Terran stuff, Marauders, tanks, relatively few aerial units. What should I be doing? Should I be laying down those advanced structures that give Gateways access to Dark...thingies? Should I be upgrading ground/air weapons and armor? Should I be researching specific abilities? (Are these used automatically, by the way?) Should I be working toward a mothership, the battleship cruiser things, the higher tech robots? Is it best to focus on one/two of these things, or try and get a little bit of everything?
I realize there's probably no easy answer to the above question. That said, is there a good compendium (I much prefer reading to watching YT videos) that compares and contrasts the benefits of all Protoss units against one another?
But, whereas I feel I'm moving with purpose and direction for the first eight minutes, things got extremely awkward for me following that. Only the relative weakness of my opponent kept me in the game until I was able to eke out a victory.
1) In the beginning, he busted out a little zoomy car thing (Terran) to roll around and harass my Probes. I had severe trouble tracking it down (it was fast) with the Zealots and Stalkers I was rolling at the time, and it almost did irreparable harm to my economy. What's the best defense against this? A photon cannon right behind the crystals?
2) After that, the game degraded into he and I harassing each other with medium size forces (~8-12 units) every five or so minutes. We'd destroy some units and some outlying structures, then the force would die, then the reverse would happen, and we'd move on. Is this what should be happening? Should I be amassing everything for a larger strike, or continuously sending units as I make them to screw him up?
3) Regarding resources, I felt like I had ten trillion crystals, but no Vespene. Should this be happening? I was tapping out all the Assimilators, I feel like, 3 probes per. I guess building so many probes is useless beyond a certain point.
4) As I expanded out to my second (and then third) nexus, I was having severe trouble selecting options. The tech tree seems to branch out like a goddamn Sequoia in late-game, and I had absolutely no idea what to do. Let's say he was kicking out standard Terran stuff, Marauders, tanks, relatively few aerial units. What should I be doing? Should I be laying down those advanced structures that give Gateways access to Dark...thingies? Should I be upgrading ground/air weapons and armor? Should I be researching specific abilities? (Are these used automatically, by the way?) Should I be working toward a mothership, the battleship cruiser things, the higher tech robots? Is it best to focus on one/two of these things, or try and get a little bit of everything?
I realize there's probably no easy answer to the above question. That said, is there a good compendium (I much prefer reading to watching YT videos) that compares and contrasts the benefits of all Protoss units against one another?
unpurposed
Member
I played a lot more games than I should've tonight considering I've got an exam in the morning 
The vast majority of my games tonight ended up races to see who'd destroy the other's base first. What'd usually happen is I'd have two Void Rays and some ground army, against Zerg, and he'd come in with Roaches or lings and rush me. At the same time, I'd be at his base destroying it. The Void Rays would usually come out on top and destroy the base first, but I really don't like games where this would happen. Far too close.
Playing a PvP, the same thing happened except he had like 10 charged up Void Rays and destroyed my main. Thankfully I had an exp I'd just set up a minute before and I sent my probes all over the map setting up exps to try and prolong the destruction so I could destroy his base before he did mine.
It came down to his last refinery and I see his Void Rays coming in. I think I'm screwed but one second later "VICTORY". That guy must have been so pissed.
In any case, I think I've got a solid starting build order and I'm trying to tailor it against who I'm playing. I'm in Copper so most people don't really scout, let alone scout their own bases, which means that the proxy gate rush against the Terran I played earlier actually succeeded. I've got to improve my macro significantly. What tends to happen is that I get caught up in a battle and I go back to my base and I'm floating tons of minerals.
I'm really excited about this game, can you tell?
The vast majority of my games tonight ended up races to see who'd destroy the other's base first. What'd usually happen is I'd have two Void Rays and some ground army, against Zerg, and he'd come in with Roaches or lings and rush me. At the same time, I'd be at his base destroying it. The Void Rays would usually come out on top and destroy the base first, but I really don't like games where this would happen. Far too close.
Playing a PvP, the same thing happened except he had like 10 charged up Void Rays and destroyed my main. Thankfully I had an exp I'd just set up a minute before and I sent my probes all over the map setting up exps to try and prolong the destruction so I could destroy his base before he did mine.
It came down to his last refinery and I see his Void Rays coming in. I think I'm screwed but one second later "VICTORY". That guy must have been so pissed.
In any case, I think I've got a solid starting build order and I'm trying to tailor it against who I'm playing. I'm in Copper so most people don't really scout, let alone scout their own bases, which means that the proxy gate rush against the Terran I played earlier actually succeeded. I've got to improve my macro significantly. What tends to happen is that I get caught up in a battle and I go back to my base and I'm floating tons of minerals.
I'm really excited about this game, can you tell?
Feep said:
1) yeah 2-3 cannons behind the mineral line works wonders against hellions.
Also build your gateways and tech buildings in all the gaps so the hellion has no entrance and has to shoot at your probes at range. will slow his damage down at the least.
2) This is more of a feel thing, you definitely want to keep the pressure on, but you want your attacks to be effective. It takes a while to get the feel for how aggressive to be. The key here is you need to be building and rallying units during your attack, so once you crack the enemy's defense you can quickly overrun him.
3)Protoss can be gas heavy, just drop a lot of warpgates and spam a whole bunch of zealots to spend your excess minerals. Also expand early for gas, and drop some pylons and cannons in key areas around the map to give you a place to get quicker reinforcements. I like to top out around 60 probes. Enough to fully saturate 2 bases and start an expo(I time my third expo to right when the main is getting mined out and then i start to transfer probes to the expo, so I generally try to keep 2 bases fully saturated at all times) and 3-4 running around building stuff. If I have a lot of minerals but I'm gas starved, I like to drop a proxy pylon outside the enemy base and warp in like a dozen zealots and snipe a tech building or two, or maybe harass some workers. Its always a worthwhile way to blow some excess minerals without hurting your army production too much.
4) against a terran ground army, you definitely want to go with a robo heavy build. lots of immortals and colossi, with gateway units and immortals out in front of the colossus to be the meatshield. Make sure you use the sentry's guardian shield ability, it reduces ranged damage against all units inside the shield, and since all terran attacks are ranged, it is really useful. Also research and use charge(this one is an autocast ability once every 10 secs) if you have a bunch of zealots, it makes your zealots 100x more useful vs terran, and since you are going to have extra minerals to blow on them with a robo heavy build, you might as well get some use out of them. Blink might be useful as well if you have enough stalkers. Note that protoss have a lot of spells they can cast, so you want to plan your army composition/hotkey grouping accordingly. I generally hotkey my whole army to one button and hotkey just the sentries on the next button so I can switch over and pop guardian shield or lay down some forcefield(not as much against terran), if I go stalker blink I make a third group just for them. Also since you have 2-3 robo facilities, you should make a couple observers and put em on scouting patrols in key areas of the map.
If you like you can get high templars, and psi storm, as that is really useful against terran ground armies. I wouldn't recommend dark templar against terran though, unless you are going for a dt rush or quick drop at a base that isn't defended well to snipe some workers.
If the terran goes really marauder/tank heavy, then you want to go for a few void rays(until he starts making mass marines to counter anyway), but otherwise, I only use stargate tech if the terran goes for a heavy starport build and tries to get BCs. Stalkers and sentries (and a bunch of photons at your mins) can mostly counter vikings or banshees.
Motherships and carriers are pretty much useless unless you want to rub your opponent's face in it cause you are beating him so bad. they are too expensive and too slow to be much use in the actual game.
thestopsign
Member
iamblades said:
Just a quick note, I think they sped up Carriers in the last patch, not sure how much that effects their usefulness, but they were definitely slow to move around before.
Shockingly got SC2 to work on my macbook last night (1st gen unibody 13" macbook, 2ghz c2d, 2mb ram and intergrated 9400m) at its lowest setting but running very smooth in a couple of 2v2 games ~. Now to get my A30 Mixamp and magic mouse hooked up for a better experiance.
Still Syoaran.syo here on the EU side
Still Syoaran.syo here on the EU side
woah some big changes in the patch. It's all good.
Especially like the corruptor buff. I never build them for anything outside making Broodlords or countering Carriers/Battlecruisers WHICH ARE NEVER MADE.
Sentry nerf was fucking needed.
Also: Why does the game feel slower on faster setting than before. A few of my opponents have noticed this too??
Especially like the corruptor buff. I never build them for anything outside making Broodlords or countering Carriers/Battlecruisers WHICH ARE NEVER MADE.
Sentry nerf was fucking needed.
Also: Why does the game feel slower on faster setting than before. A few of my opponents have noticed this too??
close to the edge
Member
Sorry I always declined your invites, I was playing/practicing 1v1 with a friend at the time.fanboi said:
If you have hydras out you shouldn't be having trouble. Early on an extra queen will help, so will plopping down an evo chamber and getting spores if the harass is really bad.spazzfish said:
Make sure to get +1 ranged damage if you get the chamber early as that will help later.
Just had an EPIC game TvT. I'm in bronze league, so don't expect some uber micro, but well, this was probably the most awesome game I had.
My enemy knew exactly what he was doing, and nearly killed me off, but when his tactic failed, he was clueless. Sitting on 8000 minerals in the end :lol
Uploaded my epic recovery here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0yz5czlwyz4
Would be glad if someone actually watched it and gave me some input in how to improve myself
My enemy knew exactly what he was doing, and nearly killed me off, but when his tactic failed, he was clueless. Sitting on 8000 minerals in the end :lol
Uploaded my epic recovery here: http://www.mediafire.com/?0yz5czlwyz4
Would be glad if someone actually watched it and gave me some input in how to improve myself
Need some ideas on Protoss vs EMP. I am a low level player. Right now I don't have the micro to keep my units spread out. which is probably the best option. So I am looking at the best way to mitigate the EMP use.
The enemy was a mix of units. 60% Mauraders, 30% Marines, %10 Ghost. In general he had around 20 units attacking.
My general strat:
1) Get the +1 to ground armor - Since he is going to EMP away a large chunk of your shields then you are going to be down to armor.
2) Guardian Shield to protect Stalkers and Immortals after EMP - I am going to have to check the replay but this didn't seem to be as effective as I had hoped it would be. My Stalkers still melted relatively early after the EMP blast. I made sure to cast the spell before the EMP blast.
What seemed to work with limited success:
Zealots w/ Charge - I assume this worked because first, EMP will take away the zealot's 50 shields but they still have 100HP (EMP does 33% damage). Where as Stalkers lose 80 shields and are left with 80 HP (EMP does 50% damage). Ghost get +10 damage against Zealots, so that isn't ideal. But the number of ghosts is small relative to the number of Mauraders. The second reason why it might have worked is because when I tried a large number of charge zealots the game was already over. So I didn't feel like he was microing as much because he didn't care.
Side Note:
I don't know if Storm is a real counter. It just never seems to cancel out the damage EMP does. It seems like he hurts my units much worse than I hurt his in that trade. But I don't know that for sure. That is just my gut reaction.
Anyone have some ideas?
The enemy was a mix of units. 60% Mauraders, 30% Marines, %10 Ghost. In general he had around 20 units attacking.
My general strat:
1) Get the +1 to ground armor - Since he is going to EMP away a large chunk of your shields then you are going to be down to armor.
2) Guardian Shield to protect Stalkers and Immortals after EMP - I am going to have to check the replay but this didn't seem to be as effective as I had hoped it would be. My Stalkers still melted relatively early after the EMP blast. I made sure to cast the spell before the EMP blast.
What seemed to work with limited success:
Zealots w/ Charge - I assume this worked because first, EMP will take away the zealot's 50 shields but they still have 100HP (EMP does 33% damage). Where as Stalkers lose 80 shields and are left with 80 HP (EMP does 50% damage). Ghost get +10 damage against Zealots, so that isn't ideal. But the number of ghosts is small relative to the number of Mauraders. The second reason why it might have worked is because when I tried a large number of charge zealots the game was already over. So I didn't feel like he was microing as much because he didn't care.
Side Note:
I don't know if Storm is a real counter. It just never seems to cancel out the damage EMP does. It seems like he hurts my units much worse than I hurt his in that trade. But I don't know that for sure. That is just my gut reaction.
Anyone have some ideas?
I'd say charge lots + guardian shield. (But then he can kite still and stalkers melt to mards) Oh no! (You want the zealots to tank mard shots, shield to lower DPS, stalkers to catch up and kill mards, then have surviving lots kill marines)
If you get to late game collosus and storm is always nice.
I have trouble when my first push doesn't succeed and P gets to get storm / collosi to a decent number.
If you get to late game collosus and storm is always nice.
I have trouble when my first push doesn't succeed and P gets to get storm / collosi to a decent number.
Tacitus_ said:
Have you actually pulled this off or have a replay of someone pulling this off?
I think this is one of those things were the fundemental logic is solid but actually executing it is much more complex.
How are you going to get your HT's in range safely in order to feedback his ghost? If you walk them up in front of your army they are going to get killed before they even get chance to cast feed back. If you walk them up behind your army. he is going to EMP your main army so by the time you cast feedback the damage is done. So then you are talking about sending a distraction attack with a smaller force to draw his attention and then move in the HT for feedback. That still seems dicey to me.
So in short the amount of micro needed to do this seems really high. And if my micro was that high to begin with I would just spread my army out.
Maybe there is some great way to setup his ghost to feedback them and my low level brain can't figure it out.
FoxSpirit said:
I actually just matched up against the dude who thrashed me the first game with Rays and beat him comfortably in the second game
I just had to harass much earlier with more lings then normal and took a gamble by skimping on roaches and pushing quick for the hydras.
His tactic was to expand quick stick up photon cannons and pump mass Rays.
Once I had harassed his expansion to stop his economy I then used the hydras to cheese down his Rays before he could mass them and it was game to me
Damn I forgot how good this game feels when you win sometimes
It's just going to take a while to get the old flow back, even though this game is so similar to starcraft it feels so different as well.
Hazaro said:
That is the quandry. Zealots are effective but he can kite the hell out of them in the early game, Stalker's after getting hit by EMP have 80 health. Mauraders do 20 damage to stalkers (due to the +10 to armor) so that mean in 4 shots the Stalker goes down. Which really means 4 Marauders focus firing on 1 Stalker puts him down instantly.
So it's really tough.
I guess I could try to force field behind his army to impair his ability to kite the zealots. That might work, but I am afraid the EMP will hit before I can really get enough FF's out to be effective.
I really need to play with Terran to understand the trade off's he is making to get the ghosts. So just to make up an example he gets Ghost's early and that means he will not have the Gas to make Thors or Banshees early. My biggest fear with going with a heavy zealot mix is banshees show up on the battlefield and my zealots are toast.
Ugh.. gotta play Terran to get an idea of their limitations at different stages of the game.
I just feel like the Terran is dictating what I am doing in this matchup. I never feel like I am forcing the Terran to react to me.
Woah woah woah. What?mbmonk said:
Why are you pushing as P? You want to be able to live and macro up so you get the tech options to destroy that bio army.
imo right now (Based on how the game is going) you should be aiming to play defensively and secure an expansion before Terran does.
If he 1 rax fast expands or something similar you do want to go with a 4 warp gate push on T though.
*(Also Zealots die to 12 mard shots with no shield which is why you reallllly need them to tank, even more so under guardian shield)
The shield and proper tanking of units is the major thing. If he doesn't have enough marines his units will just die.
The shield reduces mard damage to 7 from 9, marine damage from 5 to 3. That is so huge!!!
Forcefields in open territory aren't going to do anything.
The shield reduces mard damage to 7 from 9, marine damage from 5 to 3. That is so huge!!!
Forcefields in open territory aren't going to do anything.
This seems correct. I maybe had to heavy Stalker mix. Maybe need more zealots. so like 60% zealot, 30% Stalker, 10% sentry. I think the mix I had when I lost was 30% Zealot, %60 Stalker, %10 Sentry. That didn't seem to work.Hazaro said:
Hazaro said:
You are talking about damage to the zealots correct? Because Marauders do 10 base damage and +10 to armor. So it's not possible for them to do 9 damage to stalker correct?
So are you saying go with a heavier zealot mix and use guardian shield? Then am I left just hoping he doesn't kite my zealots early, am I not?
You need to have a few stalkers (or an immortal) in there plinking away while your zealots are taking the brunt of the damage. You'll have to dance them in and out of range as the T player tries to target fire them.mbmonk said:
For damage I am only talking about Zealots. Like you said a stalker dies in 5 hits to a mard with no shields (remember stalkers and zealots both have 1 armor).
That's about as much as I can try to help you from a Terran players perspective.
From my viewpoint if my initial push doesn't work and P has his expo up it's an uphill fight for me. You want to be holding off the T push, delaying and dacing and using zealots as a meat shield over the entire course of the map to buy you that extra 30-60seconds to get your first immortal or 2 out while you tech and get your expo kicking in the extra gas.