MisterAnderson
Member
Why does he keep retreating lol
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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)
- Thread starter Scrow
- Start date
Well I thought the games were fun to watch. 
Day[9] Asian server TvP gosu playstyle in 2 hours (7PM PST)
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day9tv
Day[9] Asian server TvP gosu playstyle in 2 hours (7PM PST)
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day9tv
Really any good level streamer on TeamLiquid.snack said:
http://www.teamliquid.net/sc2/
You can read a short description of them after you click their name and watch that they do.
Right now I'd try to learn marine/tank/raven vs Protoss, marauder/hellion vs zerg, and some form of tank viking vs Terran.
e.g.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php?user=pimpmoo
Today I have discovered what a wonderful unit Phoenixes are. They are like the ultimate anti - cheese unit. Mass mutalisks? Use Phoenixes. Mass void rays? Use Phoenixes. Mass banshees? Use Phoenixes (plus an observer too). I have been able to decimate huge fleets just by doing hit and run tactics with them. Gotta love when they can't focus fire void rays on my units
lawlohwhat
Banned
Ikael said:Today I have discovered what a wonderful unit Phoenixes are. They are like the ultimate anti - cheese unit. Mass mutalisks? Use Phoenixes. Mass void rays? Use Phoenixes. Mass banshees? Use Phoenixes (plus an observer too). I have been able to decimate huge fleets just by doing hit and run tactics with them. Gotta love when they can't focus fire void rays on my units
The graviton beam is pretty deadly for mineral line runs, too.
The change that let them attack when moving helped a lot. Nony has a nasty Phoenix build. It is pretty crazy what he can do with a fleet of Phoenix. Im sure they will see a lot more use, as more people realize they are good units now.Ikael said:Today I have discovered what a wonderful unit Phoenixes are. They are like the ultimate anti - cheese unit. Mass mutalisks? Use Phoenixes. Mass void rays? Use Phoenixes. Mass banshees? Use Phoenixes (plus an observer too). I have been able to decimate huge fleets just by doing hit and run tactics with them. Gotta love when they can't focus fire void rays on my units
FromTheFuture
Member
Phoenixes are just good AA in general. If you're having trouble taking out Void Rays, you should try to micro the Phoenix that is being focused and move it away from the Void Ray fire. As for Mutalisks, since they deal bouncing damage, the more you have of them, the faster they utterly destroy anything. Phoenixes (and Vikings) are fantastic AA, but they become less effective against Mutalisks since they can only deal with one target at a time.Ashhong said:
watervengeance
Member
Just curious, but how fragile are Phoenix if they were caught in a bad location? I'm tempted to try using Phoenix in a real game, but I'm afraid my micro isn't good enough. Also, pretty much everyone masses up Antiair when they see a Stargate to prepare for Void Rays. Flying into a base full of Cannons or Missile Turrets is so disheartening. Also, it's quite scary when your opponent makes a push with a ground force before I have a critical number of Phoenix to hold them off. They're quite expensive.
DurielBlack
Member
Blah day[9] isn't on livestream anymore.
This sucks because ustream and team liquid are blocked at work, and my internet connection at home can't stream live video (watching hulu and youtube at home involves a lot of hitting pause and doing dishes, getting snacks, or other tasks while buffering).
This sucks because ustream and team liquid are blocked at work, and my internet connection at home can't stream live video (watching hulu and youtube at home involves a lot of hitting pause and doing dishes, getting snacks, or other tasks while buffering).
MisterAnderson
Member
If you micro a Phoenix away from Void Ray beam range, but that Void Ray switches targets mid charge, does the charge reset or it continues to charge?
Depends on the charge. At full charge, the void ray will retain it for a while. Anything below will reset it.MisterAnderson said:
The trick to fighting void rays is to not let them get near your buildings, or else they'll charge up on them.
prodystopian
Member
Halycon said:
Link?
MisterAnderson
Member
I've never been very bitter about the game until now; literally nothing I could have done to avoid this loss aside from 6 pooling myself and doing the exact same cheese unless I'm mistaken. I did a standard 13 pool opener, and scouted him with a Drone when I made an Overlord at 10 supply. Was going to go into Speedlings. He had 6 lings in my base before my pool was even finished. I could have defended with my Drones better but it wouldn't have mattered, enough damage would have been done to my workers and he was going to just keep pumping lings into my base.
Any advice?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XZQVHH8Q
The only thing I can think of is I guess I could have ran my workers around in circles until my Lings popped and then attacked with my 6 lings and drones at the same time. But even that seems like I'd be kind of screwed and far behind by keeping my workers off the minerals for so long. But I guess maybe not since he would also be behind if I stopped his cheese. Dunno.
Any advice?
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XZQVHH8Q
The only thing I can think of is I guess I could have ran my workers around in circles until my Lings popped and then attacked with my 6 lings and drones at the same time. But even that seems like I'd be kind of screwed and far behind by keeping my workers off the minerals for so long. But I guess maybe not since he would also be behind if I stopped his cheese. Dunno.
Not much you can do on 6 pool cheese rush on small maps, unless you go cheese as well. You could have sent your workers around your base until your lings popped and killed his lings. You may have been able to get back in it, but looks like he was going for an all in cheese rush. Unfortunately when people do this, there isnt a lot you can do as any race. I would have just said nice cheese and left.MisterAnderson said:
PillowKnight
Member
I used to 6 pool all the time, and one thing that always worked against me was early scouting. Send one of your first drones to his base , if you see him building an early pool then set down your own pool and get a spine crawler. Also, if you see them building a late pool you can 7-8 pool and catch them by surprise.MisterAnderson said:
Either that, or really good drone micro, drone's stand up really well against zerglings.
MisterAnderson
Member
PillowKnight said:
Early scouting like that is definitely an option but taking a worker off minerals that early on can really slow you down. Obviously it could have probably saved me if I scouted it out earlier so I could have adapted and dropped my pool asap, but it just seems wrong to have to sacrifice my economy every game just in case a Zerg opponent is 6 pooling. Maybe I should do it whenever I'm against Zerg just in case.
On small maps is really the only times you have to worry about it much. I wouldnt adjust every small map Zerg game to compensate against it, just try to send out a drone to scout it earlier. Not sure if this is right or not, but I send out the first drone that hatches and not once from my starting pool of drones. If I see someone cheesing like that I will just quit out and move onto someone who isnt trying to use early cheese. I take straight up losses hard, but I dont let cheese losses bother me. I just down half my beer and move on. :lolMisterAnderson said:
Someone tell me if it's wrong to do an 8 pylon with that same probe sent out to scout. This is my normal routine and I'm getting the feeling that I'm using a least preferred build order even though I'm copper so I get a bit of leeway. Most strategies I'm hearing go from 9 plyon to 12 or 13 gateway when I usually plant a gateway on 11 and go from there. I don't think it's slowing me down but what do I know. Someone tell me what I'm sacrificing, if anything, by going for an 8 pylon.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Generally you want 9 pylon into 13 gateway then scout after gateway. Its best for the economy, as if done correctly you can constantly make probes without supply block or mineral starved, for the most part and opens most different types of builds. I will scout earlier if I play a random/4 player map though.
MisterAnderson said:
On the really short rush distance I always get a pool on 11 after the extractor trick(and after the pool goes down I repeat the extractor trick while my OL is building if my scout sees a standard opener), it should beat a 6 pool easily, without really gimping your economy much at all. Plus an early queen means you can pump out a few extra drones and catch up quickly if your opponent is going a straight macro build, and if your opponent if going for a fast expand build, you will be able to stop him easily. It's a very versatile build on the small maps.
YMMV of course, and the mineral loss from scouting is not as bad as you'd think.
ChronicleX
Banned
Ashhong said:
Yep. You should of got your Zerglings to make a pylon at the side of your base to spam Marines. After that you should of evolved them into Void Rays to to make a forward expansion with your Hydra's. Once that is set up make some nukes at your Hatchery and send in the Probes.
Y2Kev said:
you dont...in my experience if you let them get mass carriers, its GG. unless of course you have a huge amount of corruptors. i would guess at least 20, probably more. carriers are insane.
ChronicleX said:
nah, all he had to do was not build a spawning pool, and they would think he built a second hatch near their base and put the pool there!
FromTheFuture
Member
Ah, I see what you did wrong here. You should have did a fake all-in drone rush! See, first move all your drones to an area he won't scout. Then, when he reaches your base and sees no drones, he'll fear for his life and pull back to defend against a drone rush that isn't coming. Then, you can easily take the lead while that nub is sitting around like a fool.MisterAnderson said:
It's the latest strategy I've been developing. I wasn't going to release it, but it was too genius to contain. You too can be a mastermind now.
Works every time
0% of the time
Ice Monkey
Member
Ashhong said:
build around your mineral line derp
watervengeance
Member
FromTheFuture said:
Funny, because this sounds like a better mind game than fake proxy.
MisterAnderson
Member
:lol :lol :lol :lol
ChronicleX
Banned
Ashhong said:
You mad? You can not play zerg without a spawning pool nub, you need at least 6 pool, though most people get 13/14 of them.
Ice Monkey
Member
Y2Kev said:
One or two more corrupters couldve possibly done it, who knows? There's some critical mass where the corrupters would've won. As always, focus fire each carrier one by one.
I know it doesnt seem like much help but basically at that stage of the game, if he attacks with 7-8 carriers thats probably all he has. as zerg versus him, it comes down to how quickly you react. Not only should you have 3+ hatcheries (i would have 5 or 6, maybe more by the time he has 7-8 carriers) all ready with multiple larvae, even if it's just 1 per hatch, the first thing you do as soon as you see carrier mass is mash your hotkey for hatcheries, and make all corrupters. even if you think you have enough. you make sure to focus fire each carrier one by one.
If you can't pull off what i described due to lack of resources or whatever then its simply a matter of him attacking you at a bad time which is bound to happen sooner or later.
Zerg's biggest strength that probably causes them to get the nerfhammer so often is their strength in reacting. You could have zero army throughout the entire game and easily win if you scout just enough to notice exactly when they send their army out to get you, you produce whatever given counter to the majority unit in their army and it's GG.
Y2Kev said:
Definitely not enough, you need at least 2x, 3x would be preferrable. Even supply would be 3x corrupters for every carrier, even resources would be around 2.5x or so. Even with the hard counter units, you can't realistically expect to beat an army that is so much higher in resource and supply cost, especially when you consider that carriers are a tier higher than corruptors.
Also you MUST use the corruption ability and focus fire.
It takes around 20 corruptors to one shot a carrier with corruption on it iirc.
FromTheFuture
Member
What about building 14 Spawning Pools? Dude, I think you just revealed the next ChronicleX build in the works!Ashhong said:
They'll be like "There's no way I can kill all these Spawning Pools!" and GG right there. Brilliant!
ChronicleX
Banned
Ashhong said:
Don't be so modest about yourself.
Ice Monkey
Member
FromTheFuture said:
there's an easter egg in sc2, you build 14 spawning pools within a certain radius around your mineral line spelling "base trade" and the game is automatically won. :-/
ChronicleX
Banned
FromTheFuture said:
Na, I still prefer the more advanced fake larva rush, it puts your fake drone rush to shame.
Ice Monkey
Member
ChronicleX said:
I would think being modest about someone else would be kinda weird.
Hey guys I came up with a new strat. It's called a fake fake proxy.
Instead of building your gateways at the far side of your base, you build them simultaneously far away from your nexus AND your opponents base. This way, your opponent makes the assumption that you're doing a fake proxy and will rush you, but in reality, you have units ready to attack their base when they do, and then you will pwn!
This strategy is unbeatable!
Instead of building your gateways at the far side of your base, you build them simultaneously far away from your nexus AND your opponents base. This way, your opponent makes the assumption that you're doing a fake proxy and will rush you, but in reality, you have units ready to attack their base when they do, and then you will pwn!
This strategy is unbeatable!
FromTheFuture
Member
In all seriousness, I think the problem what what happened is that you let all your Drones die before your Zerglings popped. What you wrote is correct, you should have been stalling until you had some Zerglings out, and then you would have outnumbered his troops even if you had less Zerglings. Also, if you could have stalled long enough, you would have had a Spine Crawler out. You could have toyed with his Zerglings, bounced back and forth away from them, and when they attacked your buildings, you could start attacking his Zerglings back.MisterAnderson said:
I don't think you realize how detrimental a 6 Pool is to a Zerg's economy. You were far in the lead the very second he didn't build his first Drone. That means that even if you lost half of your drones, and were left over with 6 or so, you'd still be in the lead because you gained plenty of extra money, and would only just then be on equal footing. If you watch the replay, right when all your Drones died, you had about 250 minerals left over. You had a Spawning Pool, and could have easily pulled out a Queen as well as some extra Zerglings, Drones, whatever.
If you really wanted to minimize damage and maximize economy, a good option would have been stalling by microing half your Drones at a time, utilizing Drone drills, etc. Either way though, I think you would have locked the game had you not sacrificed all your Drones. I have a feeling you gave up after you saw his 6 Pool, but I could be wrong.