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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)

fanboi said:
Wouldn't call is so much of a nerf if only usable on your own troops...
Hence "nerf" in quotes, think back to Chrono boost when you could chrono boost your allies things too, it was an overpowered combination in team games. I'm picturing frenzied base runs like stim'd marines being droped in and wrecking your home while your out. Or Frenzy'd voidrays ughh. It could only be targetable to bio units but we'll see.

edit*

DurielBlack said:
Zerg now have what might be the best caster in the game depending on just how well Frenzy works out. I assume you can set it to autocast like the Bloodlust equivalent in Warcraft, so a handful of infestors can buff your whole army instantly.

I really really don't think it'll be autocast, just wanted to say :p
 

fanboi

Banned
Orangepeel said:
That's quite a difficult situation to win in :/ If you've allowed him to reach this point in your game and he just makes a giant ball and slowly advance towards you there are only a few things you can do to try and break him.

1, I'm assuming you both kinda just turtled to get into this b/c with constant back n forth amounting a force that large is pretty rare. That being said you need to have some good tech to back you up and not just a million hydras and lings which will promptly be blown sky high. Zerg in general to me is all about divide and conquer, proper flanking, and knowing how to do hit and runs.
So lets focus on what you need to kill and counter to win the engagement.

Mutas > extremely agile and fast, fly around to his rear and take pot shots at his tanks, ONLY until he either turns his mmm ball or thors around towards you, you never want to fight those with only mutas as you will be absolutely decimated.
Infestors > ESSENTIAL spell caster, fungal growth, neural parasite aaand new frenzy spell (25% more damage and immune to snares 30 seconds; eg. marauder concussive shot/thor barrage thing) You'll want a handful of these guys to primarily fungal growth his mmm ball with not only slowy damages them overtime but immobilizes them from running around, plus they're already probably packed in super tight around eachother making fungal growth all that more effective. Parasite you have to use on the guys that count, so thors and tanks, though be sure to have a stream of other guys in there to absorb damage (more on this in a bit) while your caster runs to the middle of the fight. DON'T forget that you have access to abilities of a parasite unit, so you can use the thor barrage attack if the terran researched it on his own tanks
Roach(in particular), hydra, bling > The roach is the only unit that's armored in these three that in a normal game would be used to absorb 2 or 3 tank shots before going down while your real damage dealers, zerglings/hydras take out the enemy. Of course since he's amassed such a large force this gets more complicated. You simply need a shitton of ground units to overrun him, try and get roaches in first to take the blunt of the blows. This again is where flanking comes into play as well. In fact if your ballsy enough and know he doesn't have say a raven, detector, with him you can even try to move burrowed roaches right under him and come up right as the action begins on his mmm force, the AI of his marines and marauders kinda goes haywire for a few seconds as they move around, but you have to time it perfectly so that your main force also attacks at the same time. Speaking of which, you can't send in your army single file to the fight. spread your guys around so they make something like a wall when you send them in, even using multiple hotkey groups if you can to control the masse of units a bit better.
I did mention bling (zergling/baneling) which you can run right in, a second or two after the main force moves so they won't all die before they get there to kamikaze some marines, keep in mind banelings have a pretty decent area explosion when they pop on his marines so you don't need an excessive amount. Also remember banelings are shit for daamge to a marauder, so AIM for the marines

Bonus > Ultras > Now if you have an army composition of what I described above you've already invested quite a lot of money already so you may not have enough for this additional tech. With this new patch they should theoretically be more versatile, frenzy them and hit the main line of thors where their new damage of 15+25 vs armored will reall come into play, if the thors are disposed of and you still have ultra, move them to tanks next, remember to attack what you deal bonus damage to to make the most of your army.

*whew* Now of course writing all that and you executing it is all very different. It takes quite a bit of coordination to pull off an attack like I described, you have to be very very good at using hotkeys and fast! Particularly the infestors, F for fungal growth, E for parasite. Cross your fingers and hope for the best, gl

PS TLDR, yeah whatever :p

Wow.... thank you.

Will upload the replay for you all :) later tonight.
 
As an addendum to my breaking the wall post
*Get armored carapace(ground armor) upgrades, just do it, start getting in habit of at least getting that 1 upgrade tier up to 2 or 3.
*Mutas, remember that thors have splash damage, so if you engage them, or are around em, Spread out! don't make a clump of 'lisks.
*Set rally points to the middle of the fight and PRODUCE while attacking, reinforcements often throw a battle in your favor assuming your evenly matched
*In the middle of a large fight is THE best time to harass, like move overseers (post patch 13, which is not up yet) to his main and either take out some workers with infested terran or his new building spell to stop his** reinforcements.
 
New patch = custom maps :D As many of you know I've made quite a few over the past few weeks and can't wait to test them in some real games. If anyone is interested in testing them out I'd really appreciate it! Some of them are going to need quite a few testers so definitely let me know if you're down. Hopefully they are fun to play...here they are:

Chaos Sanctum (4 players - 2v2)

19qk5y.jpg


This map was specifically designed exclusively for 2v2. Late-game play should be drastically different from early game play since the destructible backdoors will turn into front doors due to close proximity to the enemy's side of the map. Not many expansion locations in the map means players will have to make every unit count and should allow for quick 2v2 games. I spent a lot of time on this one, still could use some more texture/doodad work but it's pretty much finished unless testing proves there's some glaring flaw.

Lotus Prime (4 players - 2v2, 1v1, FFA)

Another 2v2 map I made, except this one would also work for 1v1 or FFA. There's a lot of high ground locations to take advantage of for tactical unit positioning. Should aid in defense, and for attack depending on the circumstances. My goal was to offer a large variety of different types of games on the same map due to the varied nature in the expansion designs. Probably spent the most time on this map as it went through like four different revisions.

23kvsph.jpg


Blood Bath (Remake from SC1 - 4 players - 2v2, 1v1, FFA)

9rnhhc.jpg


This map is pretty bare-bones art-wise so far. It still needs a lot of texture work/doodads and what not, but it's a pretty straightforward map that should result in quick games.

Super Blood Bath (12 players - 6v6, 4v4, 3v3, 2v2, 1v1, FFA)

24btd2w.jpg


I took Blood Bath's formula and multiplied it. No idea how this will play but interested to try it out. Resources are extremely limited, so the center high yield locations will be a serious battleground. Again, bare-bones on the art side of things, but I don't want to go nuts on the art for this until I figure out if it's fun to play since it's such a huge map and would be a lot of work.

Scorched Outpost (2 players - 1v1)

2l8vtat.jpg


Not sure if I'm happy with the map layout of this one yet, but I'd like to just test it out to see how it plays before jumping to conclusions. It still needs a ton of doodads and stuff.

Tempest (8 players - 4v4, 2v2)

2ptndko.jpg


Here's a map I made specifically designed for 4v4. I kept the bases paired so that it's not super cluttered and so that there's always at least one teammate in close proximity to watch the other's back. The main advantage to this layout is that it also keeps the map playable for 2v2. Needs doodads and more texture work.

Sorry for the long post :/ I kept the pictures as small as possible without sacrificing too much detail. It's kind of hard to see the details of the map layout in some of the larger ones but you get the general idea. As soon as the patch goes live I'm probably going to want to test these out so please do let me know if you'd be interested!
 

webrunner

Member
Mr Cola said:
Ive got to echo the uselesness of removing copper and adding diamond. Can anyone tell me what the practical difference is now beyond people feeling bad for being in copper? Well i was in copper, and now i feel bad for being in bronze, you didnt save face blizzard YOU SAVED NOTHING :*{

Im still counting it as a promotion

I think the idea is that there isn't much difference between copper and bronze, and that there was too much variation in Diamond (to the point people used the term "high platinum" essentially naming another league) I assume Silver and Gold are unchanged (and not just shifting everyone up one)
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
[EP5] State of the Game SC2 Beta Podcast
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126332

http://impurity.org/~arenacast/podcasts/2010/SotG - 5.20.10.mp3

Also, if any Blizzard employees listen to this podcast, please do NOT take any of the suggestions from this cast. Except for the Ultralisk with cannons on its side. Do that. Thanks!
They predict Ultras running through Forcefields and VR range nerf :lol

Fun cast to listen to. 1h20m

* JP McDaniel - Host / Former WoW Addict / Giant Nerd
* Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator / Town Drunk
* Dan "Artosis" Stemkosky - SCForAll.com / Commentator / Dr.Evil
* Tyler "Liquid`NonY" Wasieleski - SC1 Veteran / All-around badass
* Rori "Cluck" Bryant-Raible - WC3 Veteran / The Cluckiest Clucker Who Ever Clucked
 

Cheeto

Member
Hazaro said:
[EP5] State of the Game SC2 Beta Podcast
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126332

http://impurity.org/~arenacast/podcasts/2010/SotG - 5.20.10.mp3


They predict Ultras running through Forcefields and VR range nerf :lol

Fun cast to listen to. 1h20m

* JP McDaniel - Host / Former WoW Addict / Giant Nerd
* Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator / Town Drunk
* Dan "Artosis" Stemkosky - SCForAll.com / Commentator / Dr.Evil
* Tyler "Liquid`NonY" Wasieleski - SC1 Veteran / All-around badass
* Rori "Cluck" Bryant-Raible - WC3 Veteran / The Cluckiest Clucker Who Ever Clucked
Do they have an RRS feed for this?
 
The Lamonster said:
If patch 13 came out, can someone please post the patch notes + the corresponding Blizzard Situation Report?
The patch notes are out, the patch itself isn't live yet

General


* Map Publishing is now enabled: Using the map editor, you can upload your custom maps to share with the Battle.net community.
* Facebook feature is integrated: Here’s a quick way to expand your social network by seeing who among your existing Facebook friends also has a Battle.net account.
* 3v3 and 4v4 formats are now enabled.
* Numerous updates have been made to the Leagues & Ladders system:

o Removed Copper League and added Diamond League above Platinum League.
o Player ratings start at 0, rather than 1000.
o No longer displays loading screen odds in placement or practice league matches.
o Matchmaking system logic updated.

* UDP is enabled to help improve game performance.
* Numerous performance and stability improvements.


Balance Changes


* PROTOSS

o Sentry

+ Force Fields can now be destroyed by Massive ground units walking over them.

o Void Ray

+ Range decreased from 7 to 6.

o Warp Gate

+ Subgroup selection priority changed from 2 to 3 so that it takes priority over Gateways when selected.

* TERRAN

o Marine

+ Stimpack research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
+ Combat Shield research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.

* ZERG

o Infestor

+ Infested Terran spell removed.
+ Frenzy spell added:

# Costs 25 energy.
# Targets a single biological unit which deals 25% more damage and is immune to snare, stuns, and mind control for 30 seconds.

o Overseer

+ Contaminate spell added:

# Costs 75 energy.
# Targets a single enemy structure which cannot train units or research upgrades for 30 seconds.

+ Infested Terran spell added:

# Costs 125 energy.
# Infested Terrans have the same stats as those previously created by the Infestor and are placed directly under the Overseer when spawned.

o Ultralisk

+ Life decreased from 600 to 450.
+ Damage changed from 25 to 15 (+25 Armored).
+ Damage versus structures increased from 60 to 75.


Hotkey Changes (English Only):


* Zerg Set Worker Rally Point changed from R to G.
* Zerg Spore Crawler changed from W to A to avoid conflict with the Select All Warp Gates hotkey.


Battle.net Interface


* Revamped summary pages for player Profiles and Leagues & Ladders.
* Added a Help system with tech trees and other tips and tricks.
* Removed identifier from the character naming process and added the ability to refer friends for invitation into your party or lobby.
* Updated the Battle.net user interface to consistently use a nested menu system.
* Added in-game blocking and player muting.

There have been many new additions to Patch 13 including the map publishing feature, but as with previous Situation Reports, we wanted to take some time to go into some of the balance changes in particular and explain a bit more about them.

In this patch we are looking to address several balance issues that the community has discovered over the last few weeks. We are also addressing some of the zerg units and abilities that don’t see a lot of use in competitive games. These changes are big enough that we think it’s likely there will be further balance changes to these units as we learn more about how they are playing in the game.

Sentry Force Fields - Force Fields can now be destroyed by Massive ground units walking over them.

We are seeing a lot of great games that rely on Force Field as a key part of protoss strategy. The ability is fun, but we do want to create some more options for enemy players to deal with Force Fields to create some additional gameplay choices in a fight against the protoss. Now Massive units (Thor, Colossus, Ultralisk) will smash a Force Field if they are told to move through them. Ultralisks can use this ability to lead a Zerg charge onto a protoss position while protoss players can use their Colossus in an emergency to allow their army to attack or retreat.

Ultralisk - Life decreased from 600 to 450. Damage changed from 25 to 15 (+25 Armored). Damage versus structures increased from 60 to 75.

We have put in a large number of buffs to the Ultralisk to allow him to close the gap on his enemies. The Ultralisk can now ignore Force Fields and with the Infestor’s Frenzy ability he can ignore all of the ways that the enemy could slow or disable him. With all of these buffs the Ultralisk needed to be rebalanced. We are focusing him more as an anti-armored unit since zerg players already have a few ways to deal with mass light units (Banelings and Fungal Growth). This Ultralisk should be able to deal with both mass Marauders and mass Roaches which are a common threat to zerg players in some end game scenarios.

Infestor - Infested Terrans spell removed. Frenzy spell added: Costs 25 energy - Targets a single biological unit which deals 25% more damage and is immune to snare, stuns, and mind control for 30 seconds.

We are cutting Infested Terrans since the ability rarely saw use. We have buffed this ability in internal testing and were unable to find a place in which we were happy with it on the Infestor. We are introducing a new ability called “Frenzy” that is especially useful for the short range zerg to get close up to the enemy to do some real damage. Frenzy should be especially helpful on Ultralisks who are trying to get past Thor Strike Cannons, Fungal Growth, or Neural Parasite.

Overseer - Contaminate spell added: Costs 75 energy - Targets a single enemy structure which cannot train units or research upgrades for 30 seconds. Infested Terran spell added: Costs 125 energy - Infested Terrans have the same stats as those previously created by the Infestor and are placed directly under the Overseer when spawned.

Void Rays - Range decreased from 7 to 6.

Void Rays are being used aggressively against terrans now, using their range and speed to trap a terran player in their base. This is pretty fun for the protoss player but at a variety of skill levels it is too difficult for the terran player to stop, even if the player sees it coming with good scouting. We think a slight range reduction will help with this match-up without doing too much damage to other matchups.

Terran Upgrades - Marine - Stimpack research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100. Combat Shield research cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.

We still believe that the terrans are spending too much on infrastructure and are struggling to compete at certain times in the game against the protoss. Reducing the cost of essential infantry upgrades should make the terrans a little bit more dangerous when going with an infantry heavy force.

As always, we are continuing to watch the data as we make these changes as well as are continuing to watch for constructive feedback on these changes and more.

The Overseer is designed as a harassment caster. We don’t want to see hundreds of Overseers flying around, but we do like the ability for the zerg to annoy and harass the enemy with spells like Changeling. We added two abilities on the Overseer that were recently removed from other more “combat oriented” units. We expect that player’s will still build 1-2 Overseers to watch the enemy base and provide detection support for your force, but now you can also use the Overseer’s energy to disrupt enemy production and research, or to make small drops that force the enemy to spread their forces.
 

hethspd

Member
Severely lttp but looking for some people to play with (US Servers). Is anyone up for some 2v2 games this weekend?

bcjax.glhf

Please add me :D

EDIT:
Forgot to add that I placed Bronze in both 1v1 and 2v2.
 
Marads aren't massive :lol
ultralisk, collossus, thor are the only units that can break the forcefields

You may be thinking of how they reduced the physical size of the thor but nothings happened to marauder for a while now.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
Wow. Zerg almost sounds too strong with those buffs.

I admit that Force Field was so strong that it bordered on overpowered for Protoss, but I worry about Ultras being able to break through them easily. Zerg roach swarms can actually deal with massed zealots quite easily, and because it's difficult to mass the tougher units like immortals, Protoss really don't have a good way to tank swarms of enemy units. That's the original reason why everyone uses force field. Being able to tear down force fields with Ultras or Thors doesn't bode well for Protoss, especially since they don't seem to be getting any buffs to make up for it.
 
http://blip.tv/file/3651794
Day[9]'s latest daily webcast-video thing. While they are always interesting and insightful, I found this one to be very useful for me personally (and probably also for a lot of the sub-Platinum league players here) He analyzes a game with players from Silver league, one from Gold league and points out their mistakes and what you can improve on. He points out a lot of small things that may seem, well, small on their own but they make you a better player combined. (e. g. sending out a Probe to build a Pylon slightly before you have the necessary minerals to build it, so you have it as early as possible)
I played 2 games since I watched this and won both, easily. Might be random but I think I did better than usually.
 
It's occurred to me they didn't announce new maps in the changelog, so I guess 3v3/4v4 will only be through custom maps/custom games and the like for now? Wish there was more then like... a week to play with it...
 
close to the edge said:
http://blip.tv/file/3651794
Day[9]'s latest daily webcast-video thing. While they are always interesting and insightful, I found this one to be very useful for me personally (and probably also for a lot of the sub-Platinum league players here) He analyzes a game with players from Silver league, one from Gold league and points out their mistakes and what you can improve on. He points out a lot of small things that may seem, well, small on their own but they make you a better player combined. (e. g. sending out a Probe to build a Pylon slightly before you have the necessary minerals to build it, so you have it as early as possible)
I played 2 games since I watched this and won both, easily. Might be random but I think I did better than usually.

yeah that webcast from yesterday is pretty helpfull
i will definitly try the things he said on how to improve etc
 
Sigh.

Protoss gets nerfed again while Terran continues to get buffs.

I don't mind the Protoss nerfs, but the cost decreases for the Terran are kinda annoying. It encourages Terran to get these abilities early on, which can be devastating.

I wish someone can make a chart for the amount of minerals/gas that every unit/ability/upgrade costs and find the totals for each race.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
Actually after thinking about it for a while longer, maybe these changes will make other Protoss tech trees more attractive options. Psi storm was regularly being ignored in favor of the FF/Colossus combination, and the Overseer buff means it might make more sense to get a few phoenixes that can both overlord hunt and also head back home quickly to deal with any sort of harassment.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Akuun said:
Actually after thinking about it for a while longer, maybe these changes will make other Protoss tech trees more attractive options. Psi storm was regularly being ignored in favor of the FF/Colossus combination, and the Overseer buff means it might make more sense to get a few phoenixes that can both overlord hunt and also head back home quickly to deal with any sort of harassment.

Temps need a speed buff If I'm going to use them, way too slow. Bad enough you need 2 upgrades to make them even worth using, then they're slow as hell... really only have enough energy for 1 spell (2 if you've been sitting on them). Maybe making archon merge faster.
 

Cronox

Banned
Akuun said:
Actually after thinking about it for a while longer, maybe these changes will make other Protoss tech trees more attractive options. Psi storm was regularly being ignored in favor of the FF/Colossus combination, and the Overseer buff means it might make more sense to get a few phoenixes that can both overlord hunt and also head back home quickly to deal with any sort of harassment.
Maybe cause psi storm is completely unimpressive.
 

Sarye

Member
Cronox said:
Maybe cause psi storm is completely unimpressive.

I played around with psi-storm and IMO it is useless. The unit is way too slow and the area effect is pretty small, especially when units can just run away from it. Also psi-storm doesn't damage buildings. Great...

As I'm typing, I thought it would be interesting to force field trap units and psi-storm but that's alot of micro to me.

Edit: I guess having them with your army can help.
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Cronox said:
Maybe cause psi storm is completely unimpressive.

Not if you have like 4 of them. They represent the ultimate MMM counter for Toss, and combined with Sentries they can easily take out Ling/Hyrda swarms. They should make the morphing process almost instant though so you can get Archons out there right after they run out of energy.
 

Insaniac

Member
Sarye said:
I played around with psi-storm and IMO it is useless. The unit is way too slow and the area effect is pretty small, especially when units can just run away from it. Also psi-storm doesn't damage buildings. Great...

As I'm typing, I thought it would be interesting to force field trap units and psi-storm but that's alot of micro to me.

Edit: I guess having them with your army can help.

I think its been discussed, but IMO the colossi just handle psi-storm situations better for the most part
 

suaveric

Member
MrCompletely said:
wow, a little disappointing that they release such a major update with only a week before they shut down the beta for awhile.

The thing is, Blizzard will be tweaking the game for years. This test was probably more for netcode and graphic performance issues than the balance of the game. I expect there will be balance changes being implemented between the beta shutdown and the retail release.
 

aznpxdd

Member
suaveric said:
The thing is, Blizzard will be tweaking the game for years. This test was probably more for netcode and graphic performance issues than the balance of the game. I expect there will be balance changes being implemented between the beta shutdown and the retail release.

I doubt there's gonna be much change between patch 13 and retail, there isn't going to be nearly enough people bitching about balance once the beta goes off.
 
suaveric said:
This test was probably more for netcode and graphic performance issues than the balance of the game.

12 patches seem to want to disagree with you.

I could be wrong but I don't even remember a patch other than the UI overhaul that even improved netcode and graphics performance (there was one patch that improved medium visuals though). The game has run virtually the same since day 1 of the beta. aside from balance changes...

Netcode probably wont even have been touched until the stress testing a week or so before release, third beta phase or whatever crap.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
aznpxdd said:
I doubt there's gonna be much change between patch 13 and retail, there isn't going to be nearly enough people bitching about balance once the beta goes off.
i doubt it as well. i think this patch really nails it for the moment. very smart changes
 
I wish they'd give us 10+ minutes before taking the server down. Either that, or only a minute. 5 minutes is barely enough time to completely kill someone's base.
 

iamblades

Member
What they need to do to make templar tech more viable is not to change the unit at all, they need to put DTs back in the templar archive and dump the dark shrine.

Templar builds would get a lot more use if you got more that just high temps from it. Right now both the templar routes are dead end tech, while robo or stargate give you more options.

I mean the dark shrine doesn't even have any upgrades, sure sign of a useless building. Is there any other tech building that doesn't give you any upgrades?
 
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