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StarCraft 2 Beta |OT| (Beta Now Reopen, GL HF)

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Zertez said:
You dont really get a little bit of everything, so much as have open options. Once you scout and find your opponents weakness, then you build the units to exploit the opening. That is why it is brutally aggressive. In the early game a lot of players have a weakness you can take advantage of. When you have the buildings already up and ready to produce, it is a quick transition to his front door with the right units. Rather than scout, then get the building up, and finally produce the unit, it is nice to put all 3 up. Even if you dont end up using the building in the early stages, when the mid to late game rolls around it is nice to have a well rounded army. 1/1/1 is reliant on scouting though, without the scout information the versatility isnt as helpful.
More importantly you produce USEFUL UNITS out of ALL your structures ALL THE TIME. Then can swap add-ons to make whatever you need.

The same cannot be said as much for Protoss or Zerg.

The build does need some good control however as you'll only have 1 or 2 of a specific important unit (Raven, tank, banshee) during your first push timing. If you lose that it's bad news.
 

iamblades

Member
JoeMartin said:
Single base muta play is becoming pretty popular in my division as well, tho it's far from being impossible to defend, especially with a 1/1/1 build.

The first thing that needs to happen is scouting it. The obvious warning signs should be: no expo, low ling count, double gas, fast lair - and obviously the eventual spire.

Your obvious counter is the Thor, but getting there takes time, but that's not a problem since a good traditional TvZ opening (marine hellion) transitions right into it nicely. While starting the 1/1/1 build you'll have good potential for early marine/hellion (blueion upgrade is 100% necessary) aggression and will force ling/drone production, slowing him down a bit.

Once your 1/1/1 is done start an armory to get your first thor out, and continue marine/viking production as your econ allows, in addition to more raxes.

From there it should be pretty easy. Getting thors/vikings out in time to defend the initial muta play should be enough to discourage any further muta play. Once your second thor pops you can take a healthy marine/blueion/thor/viking push out.

There is no way single base muta can give enough gas to have more than like 8 mutas out by the time the terran has thors. I mean you harvest 120ish gas per min on each geyser with 3 drones, and it takes about 2.5 mins before both gases are up. You have to spend 100 gas on lair and 200 gas on on the spire. Plus you will probably want to spend the 100 gas on the zergling speed upgrade so you don't die immediately to any early harass. So that is 4.5+ minutes into the game or so before you even start getting gas saved for early mutas, and because you did a fast double gas your worker count will be low, and you will have basically no army. After the spire finished you should have enough for maybe 4-5 mutas, with 2 per minute each minute after that.

IMO mass muta needs at least 3 bases mining gas more or less constantly to be viable at all.

Any single base zerg play is about the easiest thing in the world to defend. Zerg simply can't keep up in macro of one base.
 
Won said:
Turrets alone should take care of any Muta harassment by themselves. Don't forget that there are upgrades in the engineering bay and that you can repair them while they are being attacked.

But yeah they are overpowered.

Vikings are 2x stronger than Muta's. 9 range is far better than splash damage, and they beat muta + phoenix because of it. Vikings are Overpowered, not Muta's. Hell currently Terran are overpowered in general compared to Protoss/Zerg.
 
ChronicleX said:
Vikings are 2x stronger than Muta's. 9 range is far better than splash damage, and they beat muta + phoenix because of it. Vikings are Overpowered, not Muta's. Hell currently Terran are overpowered in general compared to Protoss/Zerg.
I'm going to ignore your posts from this point on.

I just got placed in Platinum league for 4v4 because I won 3 of my placement matches. Oh brother. (I'm silver in 1v1 and 2v2)
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
ChronicleX said:
Vikings are 2x stronger than Muta's. 9 range is far better than splash damage, and they beat muta + phoenix because of it. Vikings are Overpowered, not Muta's. Hell currently Terran are overpowered in general compared to Protoss/Zerg.
The same number of vikings v the same number of mutas = viking rape
 

spazzfish

Member
cramcakes said:
Noway. I haven't lost a 3v3 or 4v4 yet where I was able to get 15-20 muta harass going. You can keep their army busy chasing you around while your team gets good position. Hit the mineral line to lure the enemy off the front line while your team hits the front.

When you get up about 40 or more they stand no chance. Any expansion goes down in about 7 seconds.

Just watch out for Thors and mass hydra and you are golden.

Thanks and also thanks to the others for the muta suggestions. I now play the harassment game much more and with good success.
I also need help in finding a very specific replay to either download or watch online.
It needs to be a 3v3 game on Arakan Citadel as a zerg player.
The zerg player needs to have spawned in the top or bottom part of the possible three starting locations (never in the middle).
Also is forced to have to expand to the nearest outer location as the two places in the middle (close to spawn) have been taken by team mates.
I really need to see how a good player expands and holds his first expansion in this scenario.
 
close to the edge said:
I'm going to ignore your posts from this point on.

Just like how you ignore micro, you said so yourself.

close to the edge said:
(I'm silver in 1v1 and 2v2)

Players who suck have no right to comment on what is balanced if they are blame the units for their lack of ability.

Mr Cola said:
The same number of vikings v the same number of mutas = viking rape

Only if you do not micro the Vikings (IE players fault, not the units). Micro'd vikings will beat Muta's, Phoenix's and Void Rays, sometimes even without micro (depends on numbers).
 

NIN90

Member
ChronicleX said:
Players who suck have no right to comment on what is balanced if they are blame the units for their lack of ability.

You can't really base player skill on the ranking. I got placed in Diamond yet I suck ass. :lol
 
NIN90 said:
You can't really base player skill on the ranking. I got placed in Diamond yet I suck ass. :lol

Hence if someone who sucks ass can be placed high, someone who is placed low must be FAR worse than you. Besides ranking was not my main point, the "blame game" was. You admit that the reason you suck is you (the right honest answer), compared to ctte who blames the game (the wrong answer of a noob in denial).
 

syoaran

Member
NIN90 said:
You can't really base player skill on the ranking. I got placed in Diamond yet I suck ass. :lol

Placement doesnt really mean much at this stage - after 2 months of sucking you were still in diamond - I'd bug that :lol
 

iamblades

Member
Mr Cola said:
The same number of vikings v the same number of mutas = viking rape

Just tried it out in the unit tester, and 8 vikings comes out roughly even with 10 mutas(there was like 2 mutas left over, one at like 30% health), which is about the resource equivalent number. Of course vikings use more minerals and mutas use more gas, so the mutas will almost always end up outnumbered. 10 vikings vs 10 mutas, 4 vikings survive.

I didnt even really micro the vikings aside from focus firing, so I don't get how you can say mutas rape vikings.

Did the same test with equal cost thors(on minerals, I again ignored the fact that mutas are way more expensive on gas), and it was completely onesided. 3 thors vs 9 mutas, the mutas killed 1 of the thors, 7 thors vs 21 mutas, again the mutas only managed to kill one thor.

With marines, 20 marines with combat shield vs 10 mutas, the mutas only manage to take out 6 of the marines. That is 1000/1000 worth of units against just 1000 minerals worth of marines and a cheap 100/100 upgrade and the mutas get slaughtered. Without the combat shield upgrade, 7 marines still survive.

Mutas are not OP at all.
 

spazzfish

Member
Pandaman said:
yep, just start the game search in a party.

Man maybe it would help if i actually spent time looking at some of the games features rather then getting so engrossed in just playing the game all the time.
I did wonder how some of the teams i've faced where so well co-ordinated (me thinking teams where random) Damn I feel stupid now:(
 

BigAT

Member
So I recently got into the beta and my experience with competitive Starcraft is rather minimal. I'm thinking that I am going to stick with Protoss and focus on getting decent with them as opposed to spreading out my already minimal skill.

Can anyone recommend some good resources on Protoss build orders, tips, etc.?
 

iamblades

Member
BigAT said:
So I recently got into the beta and my experience with competitive Starcraft is rather minimal. I'm thinking that I am going to stick with Protoss and focus on getting decent with them as opposed to spreading out my already minimal skill.

Can anyone recommend some good resources on Protoss build orders, tips, etc.?

Protoss is a good option for starters, it's much easier to manage your workers when you can instantly warp in buildings and go right back to mining.

As for build orders, you probably want to start with the same basic structure pretty much all the time as protoss, basically pylon on 9, gateway 11, gas right after you start the gateway, then cybernetics core as soon as the gateway finishes(should be like 16-17). Second gas while the cybernetics core is building usually.

Only after that point do the builds really change, you can drop a couple more gates, a robo and a another gate, a starport, etc. Lots of different options there, and it changes depending on what your early scouting finds out and what the matchup is..

The part of the build you need to have really well practiced it up to about 20 supply, as you want to make sure you get that cybernetics core finished as soon as possible. After that it's just a matter of countering whatever the other guy is doing.

As for tips, you should basically always be building probes, and you should always be chrono boosting.
 

Yaweee

Member
BigAT said:
So I recently got into the beta and my experience with competitive Starcraft is rather minimal. I'm thinking that I am going to stick with Protoss and focus on getting decent with them as opposed to spreading out my already minimal skill.

Can anyone recommend some good resources on Protoss build orders, tips, etc.?

Make sure you use your Chrono Boost. Hotkey your Nexuses to a control group and use the ability liberally.

Watch replays or go to Team Liquid for build orders.

GET THE WARP GATE UPGRADE at the Cybernetics Core, and upgrade all of your Gateways asap. Build pylons closer to your enemy base, and press W to pull up all of your Warp Gates at once.

Generally, learn and use the hotkeys.
 

Cru Jones

Member
iamblades said:
Protoss is a good option for starters, it's much easier to manage your workers when you can instantly warp in buildings and go right back to mining.

LOL, how hard is it for the other races? Zerg your worker gets consumed and for Terran just shift click the minerals once the building has started and he will automatically return to the mineral line when done.
 

Zzoram

Member
Cru Jones said:
LOL, how hard is it for the other races? Zerg your worker gets consumed and for Terran just shift click the minerals once the building has started and he will automatically return to the mineral line when done.

It's been well known that the Probe has always been the most imbalanced worker. It's regenerating shield means it can win any worker vs worker battle. The fact that it can build buildings without being stuck and exposed or be consumed gives it a huge advantage. Probes don't have any animation delay when laying down buildings while Drones do a little movement that gives you the chance to interrupt them and cancel the building with good Probe/SCV micro.

PvT, a 9scout can harass the SCV building the Barracks to the point that it dies or the Barracks is majorly delayed, allowing for the 1st Zealot to do decent damage.

In Broodwar it was even more imbalanced, it had the longest attack range of all the workers so it could kill them even more easily.

I honestly believe the SCV needs to be bumped back up to 60HP. For lower level players, the scouting Probe killing or harassing the Barracks SCV can kill them every game.
 

spazzfish

Member
Zzoram said:
I honestly believe the SCV needs to be bumped back up to 60HP.

No! no more anything for terran and protoss until Blizzard fix zergs Ultralisks and the useless nydus network (this is purely from a selfish point of view btw).
 
spazzfish said:
No! no more anything for terran and protoss until Blizzard fix zergs Ultralisks and the useless nydus network (this is purely from a selfish point of view btw).

Very selfish. Protoss has the most problems out of the 3 races currently as they are over dependant on forcefields. Secondly Nydus kicks ass when used correctly.
 

spazzfish

Member
ChronicleX said:
Very selfish. Protoss has the most problems out of the 3 races currently as they are over dependant on forcefields. Secondly Nydus kicks ass when used correctly.

Protoss have the most problems? They seem ok to me (maybe weak against air), but then i'm not a pro player, however i'm yet to see a nydus used at any level of play. I'm not sure if i've even seen it once used by top players.
Just seems pointless when you can use overlords to do the same thing or use the resources on something more useful.
 
Probes are awesome, but they made it so that players can't just right click on an SCV or Drone and win. A Probe will always lose to a Drone or SCV unless microed. I think that if they should make it so that SCVs can't be harassed if their building is already half way done (targetting SCV while it's inside is quite difficult sometimes anyway) instead of giving them more HP. Giving them 60 HP would make SCV rushes so powerful.
 
spazzfish said:
Protoss have the most problems? They seem ok to me, but then i'm not a pro player, however i'm yet to see a nydus used at any level of play. I'm not sure if i've even seen it once used by top players.
Just seems pointless when you can use overlords to do the same thing or use the resources on something more useful.

It is hard to use at high level due to people being very good at scouting and positioning buildings / units in a way that does not allow one to be placed unseen. That does not make it a bad ability, it would be like saying Bloodlords are bad because they are T3 so you never get to use them that often.

You can only declare something to be bad when it is never used or hardly used at all. Ultralisks / Archons are the main Craptastic units of SCII currently but for Terran/Zerg the rest of their arsenal is viable, it has a use. Protoss however has only one viable tech path vs good players, that is 3 warpgate robo Collosi. Teching anything else puts them at a handicap since Templar Tech path sucks as because it is TWO paths not one and ends in the useless Archons. Stargate tech gives the overrated Void Rays and the Anti zerg Phoenix but leads into the useless Carrier/Mothership, both victims of being slow expensive units easily targeted and destroyed. The only good thing about Protoss currently is they have a very strong earlygame with mass Zealots and even that is not that good compared to Terrans Mass Stimpack Maruders.

For anyone to naysay the above who is good then here is a challenge for you. Try and win a game as Protoss without cheesing or using Forcefield.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
spazzfish said:
Protoss have the most problems? They seem ok to me (maybe weak against air), but then i'm not a pro player, however i'm yet to see a nydus used at any level of play. I'm not sure if i've even seen it once used by top players.
Just seems pointless when you can use overlords to do the same thing or use the resources on something more useful.
wth, nydus is awesome. :\

i won my last game with it, FFFE on blistering sands. i broke the rocks and harassed both ends to force static defense, built the nydus, pulled back, wormed and won.
 

msv

Member
ChronicleX said:
Players who suck have no right to comment on what is balanced if they are blame the units for their lack of ability.
Holy shit, are you actually saying that you don't suck? :lol You're just as much of a noob as any one of us.. noobs.
 

spazzfish

Member
ChronicleX said:
It is hard to use at high level due to people being very good at scouting and positioning buildings / units in a way that does not allow one to be placed unseen. That does not make it a bad ability, it would be like saying Bloodlords are bad because they are T3 so you never get to use them that often.

You can only declare something to be bad when it is never used or hardly used at all.

I don't really disagree, but the Nydus just seems so situational that it is almost pointless.
For a tier 2 building and it's cost, I can't really see where you could fit it in. As priority at tier 2 you go for muta or hydra (muta probably as preference). Then your in the situation where you think do I build a nydus and try and plant a worm or just build/tech more mutas/hydra or you might by then realise you need some hydras to go with your muta or visa versa.
If you have the spare resources then if I haven't got it earlier i'd rather have a few banelings or just research load for the overlord. You need overlords anyway and you'll need an overlord where you want to drop your worm to create the creep (probably) so if your at your drop site with overlords anyway why not just use them to carry over your units, it's cheaper.
It's not the fact that you can't probably use it to a good effect, but there just seems to be better alternatives that kind of makes the nydus redundant.
 

Opiate

Member
Pandaman said:
wth, nydus is awesome. :\

i won my last game with it, FFFE on blistering sands. i broke the rocks and harassed both ends to force static defense, built the nydus, pulled back, wormed and won.

I agree that Nydus is a very powerful tool, but I would argue that Zerg is currently the weakest of the three factions (this is distinct from the fact that Zerg is also the most challenging to play well). We aren't talking a giant chasm here -- perhaps a 55/45 difference -- but it's noticeable right now. I think Protoss is the most powerful at low levels of play, while Terran is most powerful at high levels.

Just my observations at high Plat/ low Diamond levels.
 

iamblades

Member
Cru Jones said:
LOL, how hard is it for the other races? Zerg your worker gets consumed and for Terran just shift click the minerals once the building has started and he will automatically return to the mineral line when done.

It's not that it's hard for the other races, especially with shift queueing, but it's one less thing to worry about, so it makes it a bit easier.

Does anyone else love tricking people with the old cancel > tech switch after they scout?

Had a protoss scout my spire, so as soon as i got rid of the probe, I canceled and dropped a hydra den. I roll up on his back door with a shit ton of hydras, and basically all he has is phoenixes and a couple void rays and a few stalkers.

So awesome.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
Opiate said:
I agree that Nydus is a very powerful tool, but I would argue that Zerg is currently the weakest of the three factions (this is distinct from the fact that Zerg is also the most challenging to play well). We aren't talking a giant chasm here -- perhaps a 55/45 difference -- but it's noticeable right now. I think Protoss is the most powerful at low levels of play, while Terran is most powerful at high levels.

Just my observations at high Plat/ low Diamond levels.

I agree with this.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
i just beat a terran who battlecruiser rushed. :lol

reminded me of the old days playing the sc1 demo on school computers. :D

sat a drone infront of his base. oh no techlab, great banshees. >_> went hydra and took his backdoor and ran into three cruisers. :lol
 
msv said:
Holy shit, are you actually saying that you don't suck? :lol You're just as much of a noob as any one of us.. noobs.

There is a difference between sucking and being a noob. The main one being noobs blame the game and cannot understand why they suck like ctte. However when you are neither your opinions on balance are actually worth something.

So why am I commenting on balance you ask? Simple, my opinion pretty much matches that the top players so for the most part I am quoting them. When I say Terran are overpowered I am merely referencing Tester, when I mention that Templar tech path sucks ass I am referencing everyone :lol


Opiate said:
I think Protoss is the most powerful at low levels of play, while Terran is most powerful at high levels.

Just my observations at high Plat/ low Diamond levels.

Pretty much, but that is only because if you do not micro Zealots are insanely strong earlygame. Once you have the skill to know what todo vs what Protoss suck royal compared to Terran. Zerg seem to stay in the middle at all levels, which technically makes them the most balanced of the 3 races. Protoss are the weakest not Zerg, the problem with Zerg overfocus on Macro.
 

iamblades

Member
spazzfish said:
I don't really disagree, but the Nydus just seems so situational that it is almost pointless.
For a tier 2 building and it's cost, I can't really see where you could fit it in. As priority at tier 2 you go for muta or hydra (muta probably as preference). Then your in the situation where you think do I build a nydus and try and plant a worm or just build/tech more mutas/hydra or you might by then realise you need some hydras to go with your muta or visa versa.
If you have the spare resources then if I haven't got it earlier i'd rather have a few banelings or just research load for the overlord. You need overlords anyway and you'll need an overlord where you want to drop your worm to create the creep (probably) so if your at your drop site with overlords anyway why not just use them to carry over your units, it's cheaper.
It's not the fact that you can't probably use it to a good effect, but there just seems to be better alternatives that kind of makes the nydus redundant.

Nydus is so much better than OL drop it's not even funny.

For one, your units aren't vulnerable to sniping during transit.

Also it allows you to pump reinforcements in if you successfully grab a beachhead.

Banelings are nice for breaking a wall, but you still have to funnel your units through a narrow choke or a ramp after that. Nydus allows you to pop your units up where the enemy has no defense.

Even if the guy is smart and has vision of his entire base, you can still pop one down if his army gets out of position(or if he just isn't paying enough attention) and it will finish well before his army has a chance of getting back to defend. The threat of nydus can force an enemy to be less aggressive with his army, or leave some units back to defend the back of his base.

I've seen this work wonders against terran mech or protoss robo builds, as it takes forever to move those armies around. Hell, nydus the back of his base with just a handful of units, and then rush his front door as he's panicking trying to kill the worm.

I personally don't use it much(or OL drops, or banelings) because I go with a ling muta build, cause the speed of mutas make it more effective for me.. Occasionally if I see a terran spending a crap ton on turrets, i will down tech to roach/speedling and drop a nydus somewhere in his base. That kind of switch catches almost everyone by surprise. They think they got the muta problem under control, then bam, they have like 60 speedlings in their mineral lines.

Not like nydus is that expensive either, 250/300 in total is cheap when you consider the damage it can do.
 

msv

Member
ChronicleX said:
So why am I commenting on balance you ask? Simple, my opinion pretty much matches that the top players so for the most part I am quoting them. When I say Terran are overpowered I am merely referencing Tester, when I mention that Templar tech path sucks ass I am referencing everyone :lol
So noobs like you can still have an opinion if that opinion comes from good players. Now your first comment doesn't hold up anymore bro!
 
msv said:
So noobs like you can still have an opinion if that opinion comes from good players. Now your first comment doesn't hold up anymore bro!

Who said I was a noob? I am better than you for starters. I doubt you have grasped the difference between a noob and a player of lesser skill even though I have explained it to you twice, or you would not of posted such stupidity.

Noobs blame the game, Lesser players blame themselfs, middle players blame patch changes and the greater players adapt no matter how imbalanced certain things are.
 

msv

Member
ChronicleX said:
Who said I was a noob? I am better than you for starters. I doubt you have grasped the difference between a noob and a player of lesser skill even though I have explained it to you twice, or you would not of posted such stupidity.
Semantics. I'm calling you a noob because I've won you once or twice, which makes you a noob as well by default.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
ChronicleX said:
Who said I was a noob? I am better than you for starters. I doubt you have grasped the difference between a noob and a player of lesser skill even though I have explained it to you twice, or you would not of posted such stupidity.

Noobs blame the game, Lesser players blame themselfs, middle players blame patch changes and the greater players adapt no matter how imbalanced certain things are.
i'll say you're a noob.
 

Opiate

Member
There are effectively multiple ways to measure balance, and I don't envy Blizzard the task.

The most obvious is equal skill balance 1v1. Make sure that Protoss = Zerg = Terran.

However, one must also consider that what is unbalanced at low skill levels (for example, void rays) is not necessarily unbalanced at high levels. Some things which are weak when you don't know what you're doing (Phoenix) are very strong if you do know what you're doing. Balancing so that the factions are simultaneously equivalent for Bronze all the way up to Diamond is a challenge.

Then, one must consider 1v1/2v2/3v3/4v4. While I just argued that Zerg is slightly too weak, I think we all assumed this was in reference to 1v1 (it was). However, I would argue that Zerg is decidedly not too weak in 2v2, and is likely OP in 3v3/4v4, simply because a multiple 6 or 10 pool rush is ridiculously strong. It's nigh impossible to fend off.

I can come up with solutions to these problems (or try, at least), but it's very challenging to tweak one problem (for example, void rays are too powerful at low levels of skill) without inadvertently changing other metrics (Protoss may be too weak at high levels of skill and/or in 3v3/4v4 etc).
 
msv said:
Semantics. I'm calling you a noob because I've won you once or twice, which makes you a noob as well by default.

At least 3 times now and you still do not understand what a noob is :lol Secondly you have never seen me play seriously ever. Oh and even though the current divisions suck ass and are mostly meaningless, being the current rank 6 in my dia league division is hardly nooby.

Pandaman said:
i'll say you're a noob.
Cru Jones said:
I will third that

Yet I outrank the pair of you skillwise, go figure :lol
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Well I guess I'll check up on the SC2 thread even though I'm playing HoN--

Oh god not this again.
 

msv

Member
ChronicleX said:
At least 3 times now and you still do not understand what a noob is :lol Secondly you have never seen me play seriously ever. Oh and even though the current divisions suck ass and are mostly meaningless, being the current rank 6 in my dia league division is hardly nooby.
All you do is play seriously :lol You even rushed me when I said I just wanted to test something. You also get mouthy/pissed off every time you lose even a friendly game. Don't lie to me dude.
 

Milabrega

Member
This is the current list of complaints against BNET 2.0 from the community, am I missing something?

-No Chat Rooms
-No Searching by game name title
-No making/joining a game by name/password
-Finite limit on custom map uploads
-Status message and Broadcast limited to real ID friends
-No Lan
-Cluttered Game Lobby UI
-Region locked
 
msv said:
All you do is play seriously :lol You even rushed me when I said I just wanted to test something. You also get mouthy/pissed off every time you lose even a friendly game. Don't lie to me dude.

I never play seriously in custom games ever because there is no reason to, so for them I am mostly drunk. I just have fun in customs and I remember that game you are referencing. I was testing too and you cried for a good 5/10 mins because my testing hindered your testing, as you died. Pretty pathetic TBH though it was not as bad as one of the games the next day you played vs NRN where you lost to a probe rush.

If you want to see me play "serious" then wait for that EU tourny to continue, I might have to take Miroi seriously. You on the other hand, never :lol


Milabrega said:
This is the current list of complaints against BNET 2.0 from the community, am I missing something?

-No Chat Rooms
-No Searching by game name title
-No making/joining a game by name/password
-Finite limit on custom map uploads
-Status message and Broadcast limited to real ID friends
-No Lan
-Cluttered Game Lobby UI

-Not everyone wants Facebook support.
-Game being regionlocked, so US cannot play EU etc.
-Bnet 1.0 is far better.
 
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