vicissitudes
Banned
Nice muta harass. Keep it up!
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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG
- Thread starter Corran Horn
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vicissitudes
Banned
Yup, Jaedong loses :/
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
GL with that. BW will have to be dead or Flash/JD be demoted to B squad before that happens. Just too much money/fame in BW still for these players who spent so much time to switch.Hazaro said:
Goddamn Flash... too good.
While I too would like to see them in SC2, I wonder if the skill ceiling means some of their immense talents are wasted. Watching Tester micro zealots sometimes it seems better to just let CPU control things at times (things like Tank smart fire). Seems like you need an inhuman amount of APM to have manual control produce better results than the balls. But if anyone can do it... JD and Flash.
With that said, even GSL finals showed that the standard of play can raise even further.
While I too would like to see them in SC2, I wonder if the skill ceiling means some of their immense talents are wasted. Watching Tester micro zealots sometimes it seems better to just let CPU control things at times (things like Tank smart fire). Seems like you need an inhuman amount of APM to have manual control produce better results than the balls. But if anyone can do it... JD and Flash.
With that said, even GSL finals showed that the standard of play can raise even further.
watervengeance
Member
These tournaments always happen when I'm busy. 
This argument basically bolsters the point that Zerg players need to play like Fruitdealer and have 300 APM against simple Terran strategy. Next please.
Scrow said:
This argument basically bolsters the point that Zerg players need to play like Fruitdealer and have 300 APM against simple Terran strategy. Next please.
Let's please not get into this again
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Flash said recently he has never touched SC2. If thats true, I dont know. But I dont get why they would leave when they are at the top of their game unless they want to retire at the top.tehbear said:
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
What type of games, live games? Just random people? Random tournys?Omiee said:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/userstream.php
List of people streaming games or at certain times tournaments/events.
Otherwise HDStarcraft or Huskystarcraft on youtube have alot of games
Corran Horn said:
I know, I was referring to the same interview. I know there is zero reason for him to move games for the foreseeable future. He also mentioned he thinks him and JD will be on top IF they switch.
I am not looking forward to it this instant, but in a few years if SC2 keeps developing maybe we'll see him break SC2 as well :lol
My gut feeling is that the switch only happens if Kespa and Blizz/Gom makes up and SC2 proves itself with the fans. Prolly won't happen, but it'd be nice if it did.
watervengeance
Member
Omiee said:
Youtube is your best bet.
http://sc2casts.com/ is a good site that links to the casted games.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Sorry wasnt really directly saying that at you I guess, just saying in general.tehbear said:
watervengeance
Member
Omiee said:
Day9 might be great for you then.
Check his stuff out at http://day9tv.blip.tv/
He also does livestreams at http://ustream.tv/day9tv
that would only be true if fruitdealer's opponent was some platinum level player. but since hopetorture is pro-level and the best terran in this season only bolsters the argument that zerg is a more than capable race and not as underpowered (or even at all) as some people make out. they are players of comparable skill, so your point is moot.watervengeance said:
the races are balanced enough that you can overcome your opponent by playing better than them.
elrechazado
Banned
they'll go where the money is
watervengeance
Member
Scrow said:
This implies that if two players of equal caliber were to play, the Terran player would have an advantage every time, simply because the Zerg player wasn't better than him.
vicissitudes
Banned
Omiee said:
HD Starcraft has a lot of good games in good quality, casted like the battle reports. His channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/hdstarcraft?blend=1&ob=4
vicissitudes
Banned
Scrow said:
They're really not, unless you want to argue that all the top SC2 pros are of comparable skill, in which case I think 1 Zerg in the top 8 or 2 Zergs in the top 16 speaks for itself.
Taking a break from Zerg and maybe the game for a while. I just don't have the skill to play them correctly. Staying on top of queen injections means tons of minerals that I never end up spending because I can't macro and move that well at the same time. I just keep losing to the same tier one spam, my APM is getting higher but it isn't resulting in better play.
You gotta expand, have more bases than your opponent, then have queens at each base, then inject larva at each base every XX seconds, then somehow spend all that cash. Been watching the pros play and they manage to keep on it but I don't have the game experience or the required scouting skill to outplay my opponents. Most games just devolve into speedling mutaling map control and then starving my opponent. Everything gets hard-countered.
Maybe I'll try Protoss or just take a break from the game.
You gotta expand, have more bases than your opponent, then have queens at each base, then inject larva at each base every XX seconds, then somehow spend all that cash. Been watching the pros play and they manage to keep on it but I don't have the game experience or the required scouting skill to outplay my opponents. Most games just devolve into speedling mutaling map control and then starving my opponent. Everything gets hard-countered.
Maybe I'll try Protoss or just take a break from the game.
TheHeretic
Banned
Fruitdealer called Zerg underpowered right after the finals, so what does he prove really?Scrow said:
elrechazado
Banned
That people who win at anything are more likely to say "I did it at a disadvantage" than "boy that was easy because the way I did it was easier than the way he did it"?TheHeretic said:
In other words, it proves nothing.
TheHeretic
Banned
The opposite is equally true, Zerg isn't balanced because one player who states Zerg has problems can take the gsl.elrechazao said:
elrechazado
Banned
If I had said that the converse were true, I would have been wrong. Luckily I didn'tTheHeretic said:
elrechazao said:
I haven't noticed that out of Korean gamers in general. They tend to just say they need to practice harder if they lose, and that they need to continue to practice hard if they win. Cool is older than most progamers, and not a member of a team funded by a large corporate sponsor, so he can show some backbone and say whatever the hell he wants. Perhaps your observation would hold true if the other gamers were in Cool's situation.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The worst part about playing team games without a team and getting stuck with randoms is that not a single damn random guy on the planet understands map control. They have no fucking idea of how to push because they don't realize that if they don't, they lose. They're totally okay with their main and natural forever while the arranged team takes over the map.
ChronicleX
Banned
Pfft 205, thats hardly anything. Though it does help highlight who the REAL trolls are :lol
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
My God, game 5 with Fruit Dealer vs HopeTorture.
Fruit Dealer is fucking amazing. Watching that very last completely mixed army in the final minute steamroll everything was fantastic. He's just on another level of Zerg play right now. I imagine he's doing exactly what Blizzard imagined for the race for it to be balanced with the rest of the game, but I could never pull it off as smoothly as he does it. He makes it look easy.
Yeah, like a hundred guys do this all the time. PsyStarcraft for Zerg, HuskyStarcraft, HD Starcraft, day9, etc. Just Google search for it. http://www.sc2casts.com for random pro match commentaries. Artosis and Tasteless are doing English commentary for GSL on http://www.gomtv.net/. It goes on and on. You could watch this stuff until you die.Omiee said:
vicissitudes
Banned
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Well, Fruitdealer does tend to get almost every Zerg unit in the game, so I'm not sure that's what Blizzard imagined how the race should be played.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
How not? Isn't that exactly the advantage of Zerg tech, where all your units are pumped out of your main building rather than the tech buildings so you can make anything at any time and tech switch easily? Where your expansions cost 100 minerals less because you're expected to have an early expansion + more expansions late game than your opponent? He's playing exactly how Blizzard sees the race. Zerg have no hard counters, they just have a damn zerg rush of every mixed unit.vicissitudes said:
With that said, it's still just an ideological dream, and Fruit Dealer is the only guy to consistently pull off that zerg ideology. For the rest of us, it just means having to be so much better than your opponent to even squeak out a hard-fought win.
elrechazado
Banned
Small things like his mad infestor use, nydus use, overlord drops. I hardly see anyone using infestors (fruit said in an interview he doesn't either, which is why he busted it out for this tourney - specifically to take out medivacs). The guy uses all of his units and isn't a one trick pony. It's refreshing no matter what race he places.Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Now we know that Protoss takes the most skill because they were nowhere to be seen in this tourney's endgame
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Man, I love his Infestor + Hive use. Most Zerg just tech up to Lair for the mutas and hydras and ignore everything else, but Fruit Dealer goes that extra step for Infestors to Ultralisks if he's allowed it by his opponent. Infestors really are the best medivac counter. (elrechazao said:Small things like his mad infestor use, nydus use, overlord drops. I hardly see anyone using infestors (fruit said in an interview he doesn't either, which is why he busted it out for this tourney - specifically to take out medivacs). The guy uses all of his units and isn't a one trick pony. It's refreshing no matter what race he places.
Now we know that Protoss takes the most skill because they were nowhere to be seen in this tourney's endgame
But it still seems too hard to manage just to deal with what a terran can easily pull off. *wah wah*
vicissitudes
Banned
I'm actually a little surprised overlord drops aren't used more, considering how effective medievac drops are. They're cheaper and plentiful, the only painful part is the upgrades.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Medivac is faster to get, moves faster, is cheaper, isn't the supply unit, and can heal.vicissitudes said:
With all the upgrades and the time it takes to get to it, overlord transport isn't feasible unless you're planning to go all in on it from near the start of the game.
You can only pull off that type of crazy all unit play that Fruitdealer did by playing a very macro heavy game, which played perfectly for him against a person like HopeTorture, who as far as I'm concerned, applied no real pressure to punish Fruitdealer for expanding aggressively. In those finals, Fruitdealer just severely outclassed HopeTorture, which I think is more an indication of skill rather than their race compositions.
The way Fruitdealer anticipated his medivac drops was amazing. It's like as if he wanted him to medivac drop so he can take out the medivac containing all those units.
Fruitdealer was right about saying that zerg is a defense race. Sure there are 6 pooling and 5 roach builds..but to show the true power of zerg, they are defense.
Fruitdealer was right about saying that zerg is a defense race. Sure there are 6 pooling and 5 roach builds..but to show the true power of zerg, they are defense.
Official Starcraft II Forums ThreadChangelog said:
EDIT: Once again, I underestimate myself at how eager I am to work on Shadow Assault all the time. :lol
See my next post with the Shadow Assault title image with details on 1.5 and beyond.
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