StopMakingSense
Member
And the setup is MUCH more competitive than it was before.
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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT4| Everyone Else Would Beat Catspajamas
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
And the setup is MUCH more competitive than it was before.
Ya. Almost every Bo3 in Code S Ro16 this season has been championship finals quality. Code S is on fire, and it bodes very well for the competitiveness of GSL for 2012.
do you actually have a point? nope? didn't think so. for the record, im pretty sure dreamhack has as many live events as mlg this year and T funds his events with stream revenue. he made enough money on his last shoutcraft to fund two more like it.
oh well, if there was a shitstorm on GAF of all places that clearly changes everything!
It's a catch 22, and I don't see MLG lasting unless something changes. They need the Koreans for the viewer numbers, but they can't get the Koreans without huge prize pools because: 1) GSL is more important to them and more convenient, and 2) it is expensive for them to fly over and play in MLG's tournament-based system. If they had the bank to support these huge prize pools, they'd be fine, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. They have to make money somehow.
I do have a point and I was being pretty clear about it. None of those events with the exception of Dreamhack are live or have the same prize pool. If you don't want to acknowledge the point, fine, but it's there.
And the point about GOM is that you're using GOM as an example when they're doing something quite similar. The price of a season ticket went up 150%.
No, its not there. we wouldn't be lacking for content if mlg disapeared tommorow, i see no reason to care more for 5 events run under a single banner than 5 events run under individual ones.
increasing the price of a premium option is not the same as removing the free option entirely.
especially in sc2 where as per blizzard rules, events are prohibited from broadcasting without a free option.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think it would be a good idea to stop giving a bunch of Koreans free tickets to the event. That alone would help cut cost; 1-2 at most should be the plan. European tournaments don't invite a bunch of Korean players, I see no reason for MLG to burn money for them. If Reddit or TL wants to finance players coming over, go ahead. Some viewers might be upset that 10 Koreans aren't there to fill up the top 10, but as long as a couple very good players come I don't see it hurting viewership. Also, EG has enough money to send their two Koreans, as do some of the other foreigner teams.
I think more care should be taken in terms of venues/cities as well. Providence didn't attract many people, nor did the one in NC. Go where the demand is, ie Cali, NY, etc. Maybe somewhere in Canada
I think MLG should focus more on European players than Koreans to be perfectly honest. It's a better way to increase viewership and sponsors, perhaps they can even hold an MLG event somewhere in Europe one day.
It'll only last 2 episodes, 3 at max. It's doom was made clear when it's creator was revealed.
So if MLG disappeared tomorrow, the lack of SC2 tourneys like Dallas, Columbus, Anaheim etc would not constitute a loss of quality content for you? Yes, we'd still have content, but some of the best moments in SC2 in 2011 came from MLGs.
I agree that removing the free option is unfortunate though. The Blizzard rule is interesting, didn't know about that.
TheThunder
Member
Pretty sure that MLG ran this with blizz beforehand and they gave them the okay, or better yet getting a peace of that $20 pie.
I'd be happy if I'm wrong though.
I'd be happy if I'm wrong though.
Seems to me the difference between $20 and $31 is much less than the difference between free and $20. Really its only $11 and you would be supporting E-sports!
Surely you can see the contradiction where you think its outrageous that people are annoyed over $20 when you admit you wouldn't think its right to pay $11 more.
Support e-sports is the most overused, meaningless statement in the community. Almost always used as a rally cry by companies when they want to justify something unpopular.
It occurs to me we need to ask, what sort of e-sports do we want to support? A future of PPV events, promoting an exclusive, smaller viewership and ultimately less discussion and growth. I can pay, you can pay, a lot of us can, but a lot more can't or wont. Support this and I think you're ultimately not supporting 'e-sports', you're supporting MLG in the short-term.
Moreover I think if MLG wants this to be more easily accepted, or they insist its needed to be sustainable, the onus is on them to provide concrete figures proving the necessity. Maybe its not sustainable to provide 32 players free flight and accomodation to a 3 day tournament in a niche industry.
Also pleasing sponsors? Sponsors have only one concern - viewer count. Which this is directly hurting.
I like his analysis style, he's easier to listen to than Day9.
Artosis has been my favorite caster since the beginning and is still the best today IMO. His voice is easy to listen to, he's got great game knowledge and analysis, and he's got super funny nerd jokes.
I think this one game is an hour long on its own, without him pausing it all the time. Could this become The Super Special Artosis Double Hour Spectacular?
I like listening to him, but I struggle with his weird little biases after awhile. It's not so bad right now since he's analyzing other people's games, but with his own it is almost unbearable.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Artosis needs another cast partner. Tasteless is so bad and never offers any insight outside of bad jokes. InControl would be a far better partner. He actually plays the game, knows a bit, and is funny as hell
Artosis massively overhypes players, but that's fine. It's funny when they lose after he hypes them up. Also, the hype itself is funny even if the player really is that good.
Artosis hyped up MMA and DRG before anyone really knew who they were, so it's not like his hype is always wrong.
Artosis hyped up MMA and DRG before anyone really knew who they were, so it's not like his hype is always wrong.
I personally am a huge fan of Artosis, and feel that he is easily the best commentator out of them all, but the 2nd part is pretty wrong. As you said, he randomly overhypes guys, for various reasons, but he 100% was not hyping MMA/DRG before they were popular. If anything, it seemed to take a while before he got on their respective bandwagons, which I always found sorta odd.
Fans on TL/other forums were on the MMA bandwagon when he was blowing up in the team leagues way back when, and another odd thing that always sorta irritated me about Tastosis was for all their apparent love/addiction to Starcraft, they were oddly misinformed or plain ignorant of alot of stuff that went on in other tournaments, even GSL Code A/Team leagues.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Ding ding ding.
TheThunder
Member
Artosis is way to biased to certain*broodwar* strategies to be able to say he is the best. He wants terrans to pretend that the unit called the marauder doesn't exist and pure mech is undoubtedly the best strategy period even though he never played that race past week 1 of beta and obviously many actual terran pros saying at one time or another he's flat out wrong about that, oh and there's that whole mech vs protoss thing... lol
Apollo and Wolf > Artosis
Apollo and Wolf > Artosis
Artosis likes mech because the dynamics are cool and it looks cool. He doesn't think it's viable in TvP, just that it's great to watch.
I agree.
I hate how Terran vs Anything is always Marine/Marauder with a few supporting other units.
I really liked Broodwar Terran because TvZ and TvP looked so dramatically different. I love seeing Terrans mech, even though I know it's not always viable.
I agree.
I hate how Terran vs Anything is always Marine/Marauder with a few supporting other units.
I really liked Broodwar Terran because TvZ and TvP looked so dramatically different. I love seeing Terrans mech, even though I know it's not always viable.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
perryfarrell
Member
Simply, no.
Why would Blizz ask MLG for money when they have plenty $$$ themselves, and when they see that the success of professional starcraft (in the West, at least) depends upon organizations like MLG? I'd be very suprised if Blizz takes money from MLG.
Blizz is very aware that SC2 is struggling a little bit, especially when it comes to the casual player base. A healthy pro-scene needs a sizeable player base, and SC2 is lacking in that regard. That's also why Blizz announced some new features in the upcoming expansion, having to do with tournaments for casual players, etc. (link)
Blizz full well realizes that this is a make-or-break moment when it comes to Starcraft as an eSport in the west, so if anything, it'd make sense for them to financially support MLG instead of taking money from MLG.
TheThunder
Member
You're wrong, he straight up said mech is better and the only reason we don't see it is because players are lazy.
I like variety in match ups too, but I don't need to delude myself about what works what doesn't "Hey I think pure sky terran from start to finish is the best against zerg, what ?! it doesn't work! yeah right go build another marauder or two you lazy fuck"
He meant to end after an hour, but he was only able to get through one of the games he mentioned (bc it was an hour long in its own right) so he decided to speed through the second. Im sure he will rectify this next time as he continues to hone his show before he inevitably drops it after three weeks due to "time constraints" or "that dang baby".
perryfarrell
Member
Dude, knowing Artosis, this is gunna last 2-3 episodes at most. (Remember that amazing Imbalanced show? Or Artosis series on Major in Korea? Both ran once, iirc.)
Once tournaments go over $5k prize pool you have to get permission to host it and enter a revenue sharing agreement with Blizzard (under NDA). I definitely assume MLG pays Blizzard.
TheThunder
Member
Thanks for agreeing with me ?
I said they either were okay with it or they are okay with it because they are getting a cut.
BTW blizzard does charge anybody who uses any of their intellectual properties for commercial use.
If you're thinking of the state of the game I am, then your bias is affecting your memory. He didn't say Mech was definitively better in TvP, but that because mech's harder to play and Terrans get good results going bio so mech's relatively unexplored. And he's right, Terrans gave up tanks en mass early on in SC2; who can blame them, they've been on top in TvP without them.
1200 votes... 15% would pay for it. lol TL.
That said I'm already nearly maxed on content right now so I'll most likely be passing on this.
Arena's are nice, but a league format where players prepare in advance is where truly good games come about.
And lastly WE HAVE ANOTHER FOREIGNER IN KOREA
StarTale has good taste. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311479
That said I'm already nearly maxed on content right now so I'll most likely be passing on this.
Arena's are nice, but a league format where players prepare in advance is where truly good games come about.
Artosis is two or more weeks behind me. I know what's up.
And lastly WE HAVE ANOTHER FOREIGNER IN KOREA
StarTale has good taste. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311479
And lastly WE HAVE ANOTHER FOREIGNER IN KOREA
StarTale has good taste. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311479
Does StarTale already have another female pro? It's just them and SlayerS at the moment, right?
TheThunder
Member
You're probably right on that, but what bothered me most is him accusing players of simply being lazy when terran already figured out how to work mech in both TvT and TvZ so it doesn't make any sense that they would stop at TvP because they ran out of redbull, especially for the best of that race like MVP or MMA who historically have had TvP be the weakest match up so you would think that they'd be able to figure something out.
There is no way for certain to tell whether terrans gave up on tanks early or not since we never know what goes on in practice games, just because someone doesn't want to embarrass himself on stage and possibly get eliminated to prove that mech currently doesn't work doesn't mean that they haven't put up hours of practice with teammates to try to get it to work.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
I could frame this post.
Meh, I don't think that Artosis and Day9 get the same kind of viewers. I picture those who are watching Funday Mondays just like the silly Day9 humor and having fun watching weird games of SC2. Artosis Hour is those who actually want to understand and get better at SC2.
Just the way I see it though.
Just the way I see it though.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Sad thing that most watch day9 for the educational purpose for one time. Then he changed the direction of his show ;; Still has educational stuff from time to time but when I watch it I feel like I learn nothing lol.
Hey guys remember when the Daily was about army positioning on HeartBreak Ridge?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/199_Heartbreak Ridge.jpg
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/199_Heartbreak Ridge.jpg
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
I loved his BW dailies ;;
Still watch them from time to time. Listening to basically only discussion of army movement and placement was good.
Still watch them from time to time. Listening to basically only discussion of army movement and placement was good.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Well, he is British.
Maybe, but I think Brits are born with a BAC of .08, so I dunno if the tea would help.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Lack of tea?
European. Terran.