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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT4| Everyone Else Would Beat Catspajamas
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
Naniwa suspended? Better be one season or else fuckin stupid. Idra and Sen in Code S? Fucking smh. I assume Idra gets the spot from Naniwa, how did Sen get in? I think Sen is well and worthy of Code S but Idra seems more Code A material considering the players there right now.
With the level of competition it takes to get into Code S I don't even think they should give one out anymore.
With the level of competition it takes to get into Code S I don't even think they should give one out anymore.
tbh, they gave it to idra to please the foreign fans and sen got it to please the Taiwanese fans.
its not like idra can survive code s first round.
I have to admit i am confused at a decent amount of your post. My point was that there are many people out there who support day9 more than they support the game and its players, and your response was that you feel day9 is more important than the game and its players. Isnt that agreeing with me and proving my point?
To answer more specific points:
Yes there are fewer casters than there are players, and i can see that they can be paid more than the average player who finishes 32nd-64th in a tournament, but that is not what is happening. If incontrols facts are correct (and as an insider they probably are) then day9 was paid over 20k for dreamhack. The prize pool of dreamhack was 59k. Only hero made more than him. Whilst the contributions of casters are important imo they are not nearly important enough to warrant that much. The most important thing to me at a tournament is the players and the skill they show. Good casting can enhance games for me but i am still perfectly happy with great games by themselves. The players are the ones who provide these great games and as such should get the lions share of the money.
Whilst hopefully players can one day start being selective about which tournaments they go to i dont think we are there yet because the vast majority of them are simply not paid enough, they have to go to every tournament they are able to.
Yes the casters do work longer hours than the players, but to me simply equating their worth to the tournament with the number of hours they work is wrong. By that logic the admins and staff would be the highest paid, then the casters, then the players. The whole point of a tournament is for great players to compete against each other.
Whilst the players can get eliminated i think that their contribution to the "story" of the tournament as a whole is what is required from them, and even if they get eliminated before the round of 8 (or whatever) they can still provide the excitement and value that the tournament and viewers want from them.
And again i would disagree and could name one of ten players instantly who would provide more value to me than any one caster, but that is because i value the skill on display more than who is casting.
There was supposed to be 2 code S seeds, 1 from MLG ( that naniwa had) and one that is unknown
You are confused because you are using something ("wow, cultists supporting him more more than players and the game itself") while ignoring the FACTS that clearly show that to tournament organizers, it is obvious why the casters should worth more than players.
Again: "support him more than the game" was hopefully just thrown in to exaggerate on your point, because otherwise its pure bullshit (without SC2, there is no SCII event, obviously, lol), but I believe that it is not a bad sign to love everything and still be able to realize that money paid is:
1) None of our business (really!)
2) Nothing to frown upon (really!)
3) Shows how much one person is worth to the tournament.
Dreamhack paying 20k to someone like Day9 is so easy to get raged on, especially on the oh-ever-so-friendly-internet, but honestly? This was the last Dreamhack in this year. You have no idea what 2012 will bring. For me, if I were a Dreamhack organizer, I would make it sure that I produce enough incentive to Day9 to come next year, where there might be a time when IPL,MLG,Dreamhack,Blizzcon potentially,IEM,NASL and some new events would ALL take place around the same time. That is a sign of a further trust making and is a way of making sure that if the time comes, Day9 prefers Dremhack over other events.
This is one of the many faces of paying a "big" money (and again: in the entertainment business, for THIS much work? I do not even think that it is big money at all...) , that remains unseen to random online ragers and complainers.
And I cannot repeat myself again enough times so maybe you recognize it: to YOU, a player might mean more than Day9, but to the organizers, that players's performance might or might not add a consistent value. But usually, no one player or not five added amazing player can last as much as a caster entertaining 20-30k+ viewers + the crowd for 3 days. They do not play that much. Simple math and simple stuff.
Again: "support him more than the game" was hopefully just thrown in to exaggerate on your point, because otherwise its pure bullshit (without SC2, there is no SCII event, obviously, lol), but I believe that it is not a bad sign to love everything and still be able to realize that money paid is:
1) None of our business (really!)
2) Nothing to frown upon (really!)
3) Shows how much one person is worth to the tournament.
Dreamhack paying 20k to someone like Day9 is so easy to get raged on, especially on the oh-ever-so-friendly-internet, but honestly? This was the last Dreamhack in this year. You have no idea what 2012 will bring. For me, if I were a Dreamhack organizer, I would make it sure that I produce enough incentive to Day9 to come next year, where there might be a time when IPL,MLG,Dreamhack,Blizzcon potentially,IEM,NASL and some new events would ALL take place around the same time. That is a sign of a further trust making and is a way of making sure that if the time comes, Day9 prefers Dremhack over other events.
This is one of the many faces of paying a "big" money (and again: in the entertainment business, for THIS much work? I do not even think that it is big money at all...) , that remains unseen to random online ragers and complainers.
And I cannot repeat myself again enough times so maybe you recognize it: to YOU, a player might mean more than Day9, but to the organizers, that players's performance might or might not add a consistent value. But usually, no one player or not five added amazing player can last as much as a caster entertaining 20-30k+ viewers + the crowd for 3 days. They do not play that much. Simple math and simple stuff.
gomtv gave naniwa the chance to compete in an event with a large prize pool they and blizzard were sponsoring on the condition that they could sell viewership of the games. naniwa refused to play a game and instantly threw it.
why would any business reward him for failing to meet his obligations?
I really did not want to do this, but...
HE IS A PLAYER! Honor him, man!
Just like he honored Nestea! 
If there were some clear cut rules about this sure I'd be okay with it. But the fact that there isn't is what makes it stupid. Plus what seems as a lack of forfeiting option and the addition of a pointless match makes it worst.
Hasn't Gom disregarded pointless matches that are "planned" to be played before in the up and downs?
1. he cant forfeit, gomtv wants to make money off him playing.
2. the match wasn't pointless, the point was gomtv making money.
it was one of the big hype matches and it was behind the paywall, it was a great opportunity for gom to sell tickets.
now its a joke and nobodies going to pay for it.
i do agree, 7 probe rush is sounds a game to me
so 6 pool means that you should be banned from gsl now..?
AdventureRacing
Member
I'm sure some people will laugh at this but when Idra was in code S i thought he was one of the top zergs. Yeah he has slumped since leaving Korea and he has stagnated somewhat but i think he is definitely capable of competing in code S.
I guess only time will tell.
6pool can win games.
there is nothing comparable to how weak 7probe rush is. 7drone/7scv rushes arent even that weak.
You'd have to be stupid or willfully obtuse to compare the two.
my point is, there is no rule saying that if does that it will get him disquallified
shows that gomtv/blizzard only cares about $$$
Funny you say this, because exactly the lack of additional winnable money is what turned down Naniwa from playing out the game normally, even when he got paid for the games, AND he has a salary as a pro player as well.
I'd say most people that pay for a ticket pay before it even starts, so people have most likely already paid for them. I also doubt people would fork over the money for a ticket for a single game.
I think it's more the lack of the chance of advancing that is pointless to him. Of course the money is important to a certain extent, but he did say before that he had a bunch of money already and his goal was more along the lines of becoming the best.
they're a business, not a charity.
why would any pro gamer play to not win money..? all he should of lost was the money for being 7th-12th and not a code S spot.
Anyway i don't think any tournament should pay players that lose games.
making profit =/= being a huge dick about it
And i do think it was bad idea to kick naniwa out, some ppl will stop buying gsl cause of this and i do believe naniwa has more fans then sen
AdventureRacing
Member
Well now you're contradicting yourself. If all they cared about was money wouldn't they keep Naniwa in knowing he will bring in extra viewers?
at no point were they 'being a huge dick about it'.
naniwa didn't do his job, now he's not getting paid.
end of.
ya probably, but im just pissed they kicked out naniwa for playing a game that he played but didn't play it "right"?
where is this rule saying that you are not allowed to 7 probe rush ppl.
MLG doesn't kick players if they don't play their games....
having sen is better then naniwa doing it again;
where is this rule saying that you are not allowed to 7 probe rush ppl.
MLG doesn't kick players if they don't play their games....
having sen is better then naniwa doing it again;
Awesome Animals
Member
At my job I can stop trying to perform well and just get it over with as quickly as possible. But then I probably won't stay at my job for very long.
Section IV subsection B3 of the gomtv players agreement.
Idra is too dull to realize that a match can benefit people other than the player, it was not meaningless at all.
It's not really that people would pay to see just that game but it could sway them to buy the ticket if they wanted but weren't completely sold on the tournament.
I feel forfeiting his spot he earned is kinda harsh but then again I don't know what's happening in the background.
Like Panda said. He was one of the few people who got a chance to win a lot of money in exchange of them playing games that would attract viewers. Nestea vs Naniwa is one of the most hyped games they had and Naniwa completely trashed that. It's not GOM's fault he lost his games and got knocked out, but his "duties" weren't done there.
Also yea. GOM only cares about money, Blizzard cares only about money and it seems also Naniwa only cares about money even though he likes to talk otherwise. Who wouldn't love money.
Edit: In general I'm just confused about Naniwa's actions. He always talks how he only cares about being the best but he is fucking up all relationships with koreans and burning all the bridges with GOM. Why beating Nestea when thousands and thousands of people are watching isn't enough to fuel him in his quest to be the best.
nope, go check yourself.
i did, cant find, link...?
Now why would you imply that there was no rule against throwing games if you didn't have access to the rules in the first place?
Cause there are no rules! As long as they play their god damn game!
you actually believe that? wow.
I really really really doubt there is a rule of some sort: Player are not allowed to just throw away the game with a strategy that might work but wont.
FU stop trolling me D:
you're right, why would korea have a rule against match fixing in starcraft. that would be silly and completely unprecedented.
lol never thought of that; ban both players?;
Man there must be something else that made them ban naniwa...i dunno;
i can't just believe that they banned him for just 7 probe rushing somebody....
top3control. kill all 6 drones, lose no hp and then run around the whole map microing vs lings, sounds legit enough to me
dunno how many lings there would be, dunno if he would have the time bring all 7 probes and the zerg could get 350 minerals.
7 probes vs 5 drones.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Sounds like a GSL finals
Why not just run around with 6 drones while waiting for 6 lings to hatch. It's not like you are going to kill the hatchery.
But just to be serious again for a second. GOM really needs to be more clear on what gets you banned/forfeited from a GSL.
they banned him for throwing a match, it was his stupidity for making it painfully obvious what he was doing. if he had just proxy 2gated and made up some bull about seeing nestea play macro zvp he'd have been fine because there'd be no way to prove he threw the match.
oh ya it would only be 7v5 too, i somehow do think that would win vs a 6pool
didn't think of that but i dont think he could afford 250 minerals untill all the probes come... maybe dunno
so cancel the pool and build 3 drones at once.
9 drones vs 7 probes.
7porbe rush does not beat anything.
Well then think of this. He sees the probes, it's 7v5. He cancels the pool and has the money to make 3 drones. Now it's 8v7 and drons are better.