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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT4| Everyone Else Would Beat Catspajamas

I stuck with him for a long time, I've now finally switched to artosis. That was brutal.

He takes it really well though. It's fun watching his stream, he doesn't get too flustered about silly things. I also think his analysis of his play is far better and more level headed than artosis.

Having said that i am not watching hero and artosis but that's mainly because i'm learning protoss (and i like listening to artosis). Hopefully he keeps improving and actually makes a run for code A. I don't think he will make it but it's fun seeing the casters still being passionate about the game.
 
Send me a cooler through mail, it's getting hot in here! :D

mBPvI.jpg


How is this? This is an actual cooler I own.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I'm in lover with your cooler O_O
 

Striek

Member
Lawl just watched Hero play a 50min game on Tal'Darim against Puma, Hero outmacroed, out-harassed, got 3/3/3 and tons of well spread HTs + colossi but couldn't even dent an army of ghosts, MMM and vikings. Puma barely did anything except move his army around in one big ball and scan ahead all the time. His few drops got mostly completely shut down. Everytime Hero went to feedback his templar got sniped whilst moving to feedback, and when he did get storms off they barely did enough damage to justify the cost of the templar with Puma moving out of the way quickly.

Hero was clearly like the fuck do I have to do to win here.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
No its actually unbeatable and you have to base trade or do some insane stupid shit like cannon creep.

I thought about it a long time ago and like Panda said you need a STUPID amount of HT with storm + air units

Scans + vikings to snipe obs means P can't do shit except walk zealots into cloaked ghosts and splash them hoping ghosts die before collos die to vikings.
 

Q8D3vil

Member
Lawl just watched Hero play a 50min game on Tal'Darim against Puma, Hero outmacroed, out-harassed, got 3/3/3 and tons of well spread HTs + colossi but couldn't even dent an army of ghosts, MMM and vikings. Puma barely did anything except move his army around in one big ball and scan ahead all the time. His few drops got mostly completely shut down. Everytime Hero went to feedback his templar got sniped whilst moving to feedback, and when he did get storms off they barely did enough damage to justify the cost of the templar with Puma moving out of the way quickly.

Hero was clearly like the fuck do I have to do to win here.

he have to be a better toss.
every korean terran complain about 200 max protoss coloss ht with 33 upgrades.
 

Vaporak

Member
Lawl just watched Hero play a 50min game on Tal'Darim against Puma, Hero outmacroed, out-harassed, got 3/3/3 and tons of well spread HTs + colossi but couldn't even dent an army of ghosts, MMM and vikings. Puma barely did anything except move his army around in one big ball and scan ahead all the time. His few drops got mostly completely shut down. Everytime Hero went to feedback his templar got sniped whilst moving to feedback, and when he did get storms off they barely did enough damage to justify the cost of the templar with Puma moving out of the way quickly.

Hero was clearly like the fuck do I have to do to win here.

Yeah just watched that game to, interesting to see it from Hero's fpv.

he have to be a better toss.
every korean terran complain about 200 max protoss coloss ht with 33 upgrades.

a) I haven't really heard Korean Terrans complain about Protoss in a long time.
b) Korean Terrans are winning anyways so you can take their balance complaints with a grain of salt.
 

Q8D3vil

Member
Yeah just watched that game to, interesting to see it from Hero's fpv.



a) I haven't really heard Korean Terrans complain about Protoss in a long time.
b) Korean Terrans are winning anyways so you can take their balance complaints with a grain of salt.

taeja said that max upgrades army protoss is hard to beat.

anyway, i found it funny that Korean terrans are like 100 times better than any normal terrans :lol
 

Keikaku

Member
Keen against Nada again should be fun to watch.

I also feel bad for oGs and MVP. They both a group with 3 of their players in it.
 
wow, Idra got royally fucked in that draw. Sen isn't in much better shape either, both Ganzi and Jjakji could easily beat him and even Boxer has a chance at taking him out.

There's always next season for team USA.
 
With the way Nestea has been playing i think Idra has a chance of going through that group.

As for sen if you can't beat ganzi or boxer than you probably can't beat any code S terrans in which case you're fucked no matter what.

I also lol'd at inca getting the terran colour :p.
 

Q8D3vil

Member
With the way Nestea has been playing i think Idra has a chance of going through that group.

As for sen if you can't beat ganzi or boxer than you probably can't beat any code S terrans in which case you're fucked no matter what.

I also lol'd at inca getting the terran colour :p.
ganzi have one of the best tvz, with sen roach tvz i don't see him winning against ganzi or boxer.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Thanks.

Poor Group B and C
Hope Sen gets out of A.

*Not seeing complaints here. HerO never scouted Pumas army and got in a bad position with his first engagement. He had a few good engagements after that, but then threw away parts of his army or got caught and had to fight with some 30 less food.
If he had a better comp against the vikings (and Puma had poor control losing many of them) and more armor/splash it would have looked different. He wasn't able to reinforce during the fight or push at any time either.

I mean Puma didn't even go in and cloak + EMP everything so clearly its not imba.
 

Striek

Member
*Not seeing complaints here. HerO never scouted Pumas army and got in a bad position with his first engagement. He had a few good engagements after that, but then threw away parts of his army or got caught and had to fight with some 30 less food.
If he had a better comp against the vikings (and Puma had poor control losing many of them) and more armor/splash it would have looked different. He wasn't able to reinforce during the fight or push at any time either.
Not sure if sarcasm. Just about everything you say here is wrong or useless.
 

Striek

Member
Can you respond to the points I made then from what you think?

Ok, first of all he saw the composition of Puma, and secondly saying he didn't scout it implys that Puma did something even remotely surprising, which he did not.

Secondly the first engagement was in a choke and he had templars, which in theory is what you want, except Puma sniped every templar that attempted a storm because you know, ghosts outrange templar. It also implies there was a better spot to engage (more open for chargelots at expense of splash?), except for every battle you see that no matter where it takes place Puma simply keeps moving forward regardless of anything Hero can attempt positionally. When you have ghosts and vikings, you control space.

Thirdly, I'm not sure what constitutes a better composition against vikings? Every antiair unit protoss has is a paperweight except the archon, particularly after getting EMPed, and sucks ass supply for supply against anything terran has that shoots back. And obviously the archon is terrible susceptible to EMP. Everytime Puma loses vikings its because he flew them way away from his army.

Fourth, what does more armor/splash even mean? He had tons of templar positioned everywhere and he split them during engagements. Colossi were almost hardcountered. Archons would've been useless. His armor upgrade was maxed.

Lastly he didn't reinforce into battle because every battle was won decisively be Pumas composition. What was he going to do, send 20 chargelots into marine marauder? They would've struggled to kill even a couple severely stimmed units.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
just watched the hero/puma game too and im not seeing the problem either.

hero got behind early and even with his super greed he was only ever matching puma and that greed came at the expense of a very poor opening tech decision to go straight into chargelot archon.

puma just always got ahead everytime the economy game cme out.
hero would force a cncel, puma would kill a base.
hero would force a lift, puma would kill a base.
both players deny further expands on 5 base each? pumas mule mechanic lets him get around saturation barriers that start to hit hero.

the failed three gate aggression hurt him.
the archon followup mortally wounded him.
the rest of the game was just him bleeding out, cant learn anything about unit balance in that situation.

its really hard to stress how bad it is to go archon/chargelot when you're behind or barely matching the terran on econ. especially if its your first tech. the build is very inefficient and wins by its rediculously fast reload when you have money to burn, doing it first just lets puma get early ghosts. simple explanation: if you open ghosts, ghosts are awesome all game. if you open vikings, they're only awesome when there are colossus around, which can change.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Checking out that GSL Code S chart, I realized that Boxer IS the biggest thing to happen in the SCII pro scene after all, no matter how he plays.

Reason? Check it out. IM, while having the two best players - Nestea and MVP -, struggles to get more than 3 players into Code S while Slayers have 6 players. OGS has 5, FXO/MVP has 4-4 each.

It seems to me that now Slayers house is the perfect environment to be in, even if their main players are Terrans. There is no place better for a P or a Z to learn the ZvT or PvT matchups, which is the most important matchup for both race, imho.
 
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