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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT5| Killing #ESPORTS
- Thread starter Corran Horn
- Start date
Expand after racks. Bunker up.
Scout for 4-gate (check Nexus Energy + # of gateways). Usually high energy save will mean 4-gate as a Protoss can only put two Chrono boosts on probes. If you feel 4 gate pressure, make +1 to 2 additional bunkers as 4 gate pressure starts at 6:00-6:30. Also, check the ramp of a protoss if possible as I doubt people will play with an aggressive stalker. DT rush will hit around 7:00 or later.
Make a certain # of racks (I don't 1v1 as Terran... yet). Factory -> reactor. Starport. Swap.
Usually when perfected you can hit at 9:30-10:00. Split two medivacs. For your drop, focus on probes or tech (e.g. spinning forge, robotics bay).
Make vikings if you see the toss has Colossus tech. Play it out from there.
Scout for 4-gate (check Nexus Energy + # of gateways). Usually high energy save will mean 4-gate as a Protoss can only put two Chrono boosts on probes. If you feel 4 gate pressure, make +1 to 2 additional bunkers as 4 gate pressure starts at 6:00-6:30. Also, check the ramp of a protoss if possible as I doubt people will play with an aggressive stalker. DT rush will hit around 7:00 or later.
Make a certain # of racks (I don't 1v1 as Terran... yet). Factory -> reactor. Starport. Swap.
Usually when perfected you can hit at 9:30-10:00. Split two medivacs. For your drop, focus on probes or tech (e.g. spinning forge, robotics bay).
Make vikings if you see the toss has Colossus tech. Play it out from there.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Sometimes it feels so weird the different ranges you get on the ladder. Just played a random who got zerg, 7 pooled on a 4 spawn map. I held with wall at ramp then he expands at 3rd base and goes roach....wtf lol
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
13-7 tonight on ladder. Played for like 5 hours ;;
Streamed it, here is the VODs if anyone wanted to watch Diamond league protoss
Part 1
http://www.twitch.tv/corran666/b/323811683
Part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/corran666/b/323816419
Part 3
http://www.twitch.tv/corran666/b/323827196
Streamed it, here is the VODs if anyone wanted to watch Diamond league protoss
Part 1
http://www.twitch.tv/corran666/b/323811683
Part 2
http://www.twitch.tv/corran666/b/323816419
Part 3
http://www.twitch.tv/corran666/b/323827196
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Jesus TaeJa is a beast...Qualified for TSL4 earlier.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Cheese or auto-quit TvT like I do.
You actually have to think because Terran has all these fucking mystery strats than can work.
I'd just go bio off two base into aggression into 3 base bio with tank support, defend your 1 base advantage, trade tanks, get 5 bases up and trade units all day.
That's not hard.
Here's a Marine Tank VOD. Simple matchup.
http://youtu.be/N3ETvFlEPcg
Ecto311
Member
I would go when you have stim almost done - leave an SCV outside of the base or poke with it and have your army near the base, when stim is about done - go. Personally I have had a lot of luck with that. If I dont hit soon after my stim and concussive are done I usually get ran over.
In tvt try to scan and get an idea - not sure what level you are but at the gold level they are either going double 11 rax/3rax stim or quick banshee it seems. I have also had a lot of luck with banshees against tanking players because they usually burn scans - fly away then target down the tanks. Banshee into a lot of mmm works well most of the time. Especially if you can shift command the drops - the meching player will be moving his entire army around most of the time and never attack you.
I have mentioned it before here and not sure if anyone has seen/tried it but audiobuilds on youtube are great. If you can practice one of those and get down the mechanics it helps me a lost more than reading a build order list.
Bio can work, but TvT is all about learning what your opponent is doing and playing to either counter or win straight up. Anywhere from Platinum up and early aggresion doesn't exist much in TvT, I get away with gas first into proxy rax (scout BW style with floating rax) and go Mech while slowly expanding the way I'm pushing with a mega upgrade style.
With that style you just turret ring everywhere and play super defensive with hellion hurass (drops or running around) everywhere against both bio and mech players. You've also got sky terran which means you just get a bunch of vikings/banshees and ravens before slowly teching up to BCs and if the opponent goes for a lot of thors you just have to make sure you split properly.
Against a good mech player Bio is very difficult, but you can definately do it as the GSL proves. Just make sure you're trying to drop everywhere and maybe use ravens and PDD's to defend your drops going in, abuse their mobility like mad and expand everywhere. The best way to play TvT outside of mech IMO is to go bio tank since bio on it's own can be very very flimsy unless you can control it really well.
This match is not very typical in my league at all. The guy he was facing went for basically the same build. When they had their huge battle, it looked exactly the same. Most of the Terrans I play against go for early tanks or banshees (or both) OR they will do early drops. I feel like any Bio I put out there just gets ripped apart by tanks because it relies so much on who gets to hit who first.
I will admit that in the last TvT match that I just lost, I could have done a drop and won the game but I blame that on my scouting. His build was far too funky for me to predict and I guess I gave him too much credit in think he would play a normal game.
Wow using banshee to burn scans is pretty fucking genius. Also, I'm a silver player who's hoping to be gold real soon. I have to incorporate banshees or drops.
I've tried those audio builds and I'm not too fond of them. I also don't stay strict to build orders either. I mean, I go as far as like 18 supply and then basically I do whatever.
I feel like if the other terran is going mech, they don't even have to be very skilled. If I screw up just a little I'm totally fucked. Also, they're doing a tank crawl to my base and I have bio, I'm pretty much fucked. I mean, I could drop my whole army on their tanks but that's insane. It's such a shitty situation lol. Do I drop half my army behind them and then push up the front at the same time?
I want to try to figure out a solid build against Terran. Something I'm comfortable with. I'm most comfortable with 1 rax FE.
So how about this:
Gas first
normal rax
expansion
orbital
factory and reactor(reactor on rax)
switch when they're both done ---> double hellions
2nd gas
bunker up with a couple marines while building starport
tech lab on rax
switch starport with barracks and build first banshee. (cloak or no cloak???)
Be annoying with 4 hellions and see if I can get an opening while banshee is doing work.
After that, I go up to 3 rax, switch factory with starport then I can go into viking/medivac and tanks right away.
Somewhere in between get 3rd and 4th gas along with Engineering bay.
How's that sound?
OK, here's what I think.
- It doesn't matter how the game that Haz posted looked. It's Marine/Tank-execute a rude facsimile of it at your level and it will crush people. Period. You could go pure Marine/Medivac in Silver and, so long as your macro is halfway decent you would crush people. Heck, I've gone pure Marine/Medivac in Platinum in TvT and won handily.
- Try specific build orders. Doing something to 18 supply and then freewheeling is not the way to play the game, especially as Terran. In my opinion, freestyle gameplay does not gel with playing the Terran race. If you wanted to play in a reactive, "I'm winging it" sort of way, Zerg would be much more suitable. Not easier, just more suitable. Terran and Protoss are more timing dependent and you need to hit or probe at certain, consistent timings to do damage or trade armies.
- Mech has some very serious weaknesses. It's slower and more expensive to replace, slower to push across the map and, if caught unseiged, has next to no chance against bio. If you come across someone playing mech and you're playing Bio, here's how I would do it:
- Take the map. Every expansion that isn't his 3rd or 4th should be yours or, if it's too close to his bases, have a scouting Marine to watch over it.
- Control all watchtowers.
- Keep your army always moving and mobile across the map.
- If you're following the last two points, the moment he unseiges, stim in, take out what you can, then stim out.
- Drop, drop, drop. Drop every location he has, send 1 Medivac or send 4. You can trade bio for damage much better than you can trade mech for damage.
Marine/Medivac is ridiculously cheap to replace, especially in comparison to mech, and can rip apart bases. If you camp a Terran's production facilities, he's a dead man. - Be very ready to base trade. If you've taken the map, you will win. If he splits his army to try to kill everything, you can kill his army piece by piece and win.
- The build order you posted is weird. If you're going for a 1-rax expo, gas first is not optimal. You won't be getting your Factory much sooner than somebody who gets it after expo, your expo will be quite a bit later and you'll have far less Marines for anti-banshee play/early map presence so it actually hurts you. If you go Rax--> OC --> Supply Depot --> Expo (16 supply) --> Gas (after expo is started) --> Factory, neither your Hellions nor your Banshee will be significantly delayed. Cloak or no cloak is a decision to be made based on his build.
TvT requires patience, scans (for knowledge), and a plan. What makes the matchup so difficult is the tank (imo).
Medivacs - drops + healing, gives tank vision
Vikings - denies tank vision, controls the sky, gives tank vision
Banshees - destroy tank line, SCV harass unit
Turret - protect tanks, static air protection
Thor - the tank shield to break a sieged line, crushes stacked banshees/vikings
Marines - support the tank
Marauders - support/destroy tanks
Ghosts - nuke a choke point guarded by tanks
Hellions - tank meatshields
Ravens - PDD negates marauders/vikings supporting tanks, reveals cloaked banshees/ghosts
Throw a sacrificial marine scout when you push to get a feel where your opponent's tanks are rather than moving your whole army.
If you feel contained, throw scans to see what's going on.
Mech's weakness is mobility. It's actually more preferable to go medivacs and drop in multiple locations. Use tanks to guard choke points in case your opponent decides to push because he grows impatient as he doesn't have a choice.
I guess in your league most people like to open up with Banshees/hellion drops or attack when stim is done. Usually with air attacks, the opponent just wants to end the game quickly by destroying the other's SCVs. Then finish with a follow up of marines and whatever mixed.
Ok guys, now let's do PvP, go!
Micro better. If unable, get more collosi.
Ok guys, now let's do PvP, go!
Proxy 2 gate.
Blink stalkers.
If you have a passive opponent, use a warp prism to destroy econ.
They put a thing for it on the sc2 website?
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
They've had it up on their front page since 9 AM yesterday.
Under News & Community, I see no picture referencing it in the SC2 game home screen under the spotlight reel.
velvet_nitemare
Member
I didn't want to start a new thread, figured i'd ask here since i'm buying it for SC2.
Any recommendations for gaming headsets for a reasonable price? Thanks in advance.
Any recommendations for gaming headsets for a reasonable price? Thanks in advance.
I use that one steelseries one that all the pros that are sponsored by steelseries use and it's pretty good: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002Q8IHDQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Holden too.
it's a little high level for him.
ill try to find a practice league to masters video.
velvet_nitemare
Member
Thanks.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Just got a new phone. The S3. This thing is cool lol.
Lucky. I'm due for a new phone. Think I'm gonna get it next month
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
I been due for an upgrade for a few months now and been waiting for this to get in stores.
I was gonna get the Galaxy Nexus but I didn't have the funds at the time so I just waited for this thing. Is it gonna hard to find?
Awesome Animals
Member
^^iPhone or bust yo
I'm certainly going to check these out. Thanks for ignoring me Panda
I'm certainly going to check these out. Thanks for ignoring me Panda
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Probably not. It came out last month and been only hard to find because of high demand. In a month I would imagine there will be more out there to get.
Hipster
who are you again?
With randoms or with a group?
I play with one of my friends so we get paired with 2 other random people.
What i really dont understand is that my friend is in bronze whilst im in masters, yet as far as i know our results are identical.
The way team games mmr works is weird
demosthenes
Member
Jesus christ homestory is a cluster fuck.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
What do you mean? Its kinda like that by nature.
I'm loving home story.
I don't know if you still need help or what level you are but here's TvT in a nutshell.
You have 2 main styles, bio and mech, bio is good on pretty much good on every single map but mech is map dependent. Good map features for mech are overall smallness, low number of attack paths, and easily defensible 3rds.
Bio v Bio
This is what the large majority of TvT is about. Marines, Medivacs and Tanks. The basic gasless 1 rax expo is a solid opener on all maps, 1 rax reaper expand is a good option on maps where reapers can get in at multiple points, and 1-1-1 is applicable to maps with good architecture for sieging from the low ground (antiga, metropolis).
If you see your opponent is going for bio himself (1 rax openers indicate this), upgrades are gonna be the major player here. The general safe 1 rax expo build goes something like 2 rax after command center, double gas, then combat shields + double engineering bays, tech to medivac, add tanks. On maps that are not as open, you can also opt to delay medivac numbers to build up your tank count earlier (this is important on a map like cloud kingdom).
Your goal in the midgame should be to take and defend a third right after you get medivacs, while trying to sustain economic damage to your opponent. Make sure you build turrets when your opponent is able to produce medivacs to stop drops. Keep a marine along potential attack paths to be constantly aware of your opponents position, and always control watchtowers if you can. Send a marine to the most likely 3rd position so you're aware of the timing of his 3rd.
If you see you have an opportunity to attack, do it. Experience is the key to telling when you can attack but good indicators are upgrade advantage, unsieged tanks, bigger army, and potential for better arc. You're pretty much never going to want to attack into sieged tanks unless you have far superior numbers or positioning. The method of attack should be 1a, siege tanks, then split marines lightly to form a good arc and mitigate splash.
The best time to drop is when attacking, generally you wanna drop 3rd or natural, main bases tend to be defended by turrets.
Beyond this, keep expanding, add more factories and barracks, and be constantly aware of your opponents position. You're probably gonna be spending the large majority of your energy on scans, since POSITION IS CRITICAL in this matchup. If it becomes a seige tank staredown, tech to nukes or BCs.
Here's a rep
http://drop.sc/216326
Bio v Mech
Expand more aggressively and your composition should be A LOT of marauders with some tanks, marines, and medivacs. Bunkers at 3rds and beyond are going to be useful to mitigate hellions.
You should NEVER be attacking when large amounts of tanks are seiged, and you should focus on teching to air (vikings and BCs) fairly quick (4th base time). Make sure you have more vikings than your opponent once you start switching to air.
Bio v Mech is mainly about having your opponent have stuff to deal with so he doesn't settle find a nice spot to siege in your neck of the woods. Drops, counterattacks, in multiple locations while threatening with your main army is key.
Mech v Bio
Open up with reactor hellion expand or some type of reactor hellion banshee play. Transition into quick blue flame or siege so you don't get stomped by a medivac attack and focus heavily on defense. Add on the factories and get double armory soon after. Get the turrets up in time, keep some marines (unupgraded) in the main to pickoff stragglers that make it through the turrets.
Composition should focus on tanks, with a good number of hellions, and then vikings for positioning. Don't fight until you have at least 150 supply, but instead use the hellions (drop or otherwise) to kill his econ. Always have tanks in position and sieged. Makek sure you're aware of when your opponent is transitioning to air so you can add on more starports yourself.
Most games will end with you getting into positioning and wrecking his 3rd/4th at the same time, or you wrecking his army with 15 sieged tanks, and then proceeding to do the former.
Mech v Mech
Same as mech v bio, just make sure you have more vikings than him or you're boned.
Allins
The strongest allin is 1-1-1. This is especially potent on maps like antiga, where if you get bad spots you're gonna have to rally halfway across the map to stop him from sieging up. The key is attacking before he sieges. If you're doing the average 1 rax expand, you should have combat shields done, so just take your marines, pull 8-10 scvs and fight him when hes about 3/4ths the way to your base. He shouldn't have enough marines to take the watchtowers from you so you should be able to see it coming in time.
For cloak banshee, just get turret up (you should have engineering bays around 5-6 minutes depending on your build). You just need this for detection really, 6-8 marines is going to stop a banshee pretty easy as long as you don't chase it needlessly.
PhoenixDark
Banned
do u guys think i'm cute
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
If I don't. Then in racist ?
vicissitudes
Banned
I'm not a racist, but..............