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[The Cockatrice]

Starfield multiplayer modders give up because the game is 'trash'

Starfield is 'trash' according to modders

www.gamingbible.com

Nah. Its mod community is still active and big. That was just clickbait shit. It's a garbage game, but lets not spread bs

https://www.nexusmods.com/games/starfield/mods

 

[Pallas]

Maybe the game was too large and ambitious in scope and they just failed to deliver?

I feel you, it was overly ambitious. Todd should have never mentioned the "1000 planets" nonsense. They should have maybe went the Mass Effect route when exploring planets, but allowing you to manually pilot your ship to those planets, without trying to be realistic on how long it would actually take to reach that planet, if that makes sense?

Maybe 1 or at most 2 explorable planets(or moons) in a system and narrow the scope of systems

They did get some stuff right though, the ship customization was neat, and the dog fighting was an interesting twist compared to their other games.

 

[Gudji]

Yes the procedural generation.....

......and the repeating Points of Interest.....

.......and the constant loading and fast travelling.......

.......and the dull quest design......

........and the wooden facial animations.......

........and the lacklustre story.......




Did i miss anything ?

 

[justiceiro]

It became so obvious once it launched how outdated the game was. All space games that launched before or after did something better in one way of the other. It's true that if it was any other studio, the reception would be different. As in nobody would even attempt to play.

Thinking back now, that was actually the first blunder that made people question if game pass was actually worth it.

 

[diffusionx]

It became so obvious once it launched how outdated the game was. All space games that launched before or after did something better in one way of the other. It's true that if it was any other studio, the reception would be different. As in nobody would even attempt to play.

Thinking back now, that was actually the first blunder that made people question if game pass was actually worth it.

Remember they crunched the numbers and thought they would sacrifice like 10 million PS5 sales but it was worth it. But like a few weeks after release, PS5 people were like "nah Im good". Then they started porting games to PS5 a few months later.

Shartfield killed GP the way Halo Infinite killed Xbox consoles.

 

[Rambone]

The issues raised in the article highlight a persistent challenge with procedural generation. As players spend more time in the game, the copy-paste nature of assets and locations becomes increasingly apparent. Eventually, the illusion breaks and what should feel like a vast, handcrafted universe instead reveals itself as a series of templated environments filling empty space.
To truly elevate the experience, future development needs to shift toward making each planet feel like a bespoke, curated destination complete with unique set pieces and intentional design. But realistically, no single developer has the time or resources to build the tools, assets, and scalable systems required to achieve that level of detail across a universe the size of Starfield.
We can look to other studios for how they're approaching this problem. I applaud the ambition of companies like Cloud Imperium Games (developer of Star Citizen), which are actively investing in procedural generation tools and asset pipelines designed to avoid this pitfall. That said, it's a long road and it may take another decade of feeding the system with enough modular content and intelligent tooling before content creation becomes truly turnkey.

 

[McGILLAZ]

Well, yeah - no shit

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

Again starfield should not be compared to es nor fallout as starfield has heavy sim elements that will filter casual gamers out.

I just wanted to be a space assassin now I have to do research to progress due to weight & weather requirements.

 

[Buggy Loop]

If they still think the whole reason why its disappointing is only on the shoulders of procedural planets then I fear for Elder scrolls 6.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Again starfield should not be compared to es nor fallout as starfield has heavy sim elements that will filter casual gamers out.

I just wanted to be a space assassin now I have to do research to progress due to weight & weather requirements.

Fallout 4's survival and settlement mechanics are far deeper than Starfield's, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

Fallout 4's survival and settlement mechanics are far deeper than Starfield's, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I'm saying I simply wanted to do missions kill, find loot and explore but I need to do research find stuff and figure out how to upgrade to haul more loot. This is not a game to enjoy for regular act/adv fans. Also I never cared for f04 setters crap which allowed me to spend 80hrs in its world. Just reached Bos the last time I played fo4.

 

[Holammer]

No man's Sky reaches 20-25k CCU peaks daily (x7 more than Starfield) despite having fractally more procedural content.
Starfield is just doing it wrong.

Also, looks like Sean just teased a new update and user engagement for NMS is about to jump up to 100k'ish, again.

 

[roosnam1980]

game should have taken place in uranus

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Procedural generation is a means to an end. It's a tool and only a poor workman blames his tools.

The main problem as I see it would be the studio managers who did not see it as important to go back and manually author all that procedurally generated content with actual meaningful gameplay.

Blaming procedural generation is like a spoiled toddler blaming his spoon for why he didn't enjoy his breakfast, instead of realising it was because he used the spoon to throw that shit everywhere around the room except for his mouth (yeah, I have toddlers).

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I mean...The story wasn't remarkable either.

They were hiding a shallow, shit story underneath their tech and unremarkable planet hopping.

 

[FUBARx89]

Pfffft. How it designed was a problem aswell. Bethesda still developing RPG's like Skyrim. A 14 year old game.

Need to ditch their shitty engine and get with the times.

 

[bbeach123]

Procedural generation is one thing ,but they had like 3 enemy outpost layout in 1000 planets , WITH THE SAME ENEMY PLACEMENT IN EVERY ONE OF THEM .

 

[Germuso]

Captain obvius

 

[poodaddy]

Great game, absolutely loved it.

 

[Saber]

It has nothing to do with expectations. It has to do with lack of interest and soul this game presents.
It was you guys who defended the so called procedural saying "well, not every planet should be a explorable because in real life blablabla". Not mention its other gazillion factors like terrible story, outdated engime, etc.
This game its the definition of lack of motivation and interest. You just made the game because someone told you to.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I'm saying I simply wanted to do missions kill, find loot and explore but I need to do research find stuff and figure out how to upgrade to haul more loot. This is not a game to enjoy for regular act/adv fans. Also I never cared for f04 setters crap which allowed me to spend 80hrs in its world. Just reached Bos the last time I played fo4.

Ah, okay, I get it. Yeah, I honestly don't understand how Starfield's crafting systems ended up worse than those in Fallout 4 or even 76. The introduction of research was a bad design choice in my opinion, since it just adds another layer of grind to an already unnecessarily grindy progression system that forces you to craft a certain number of items just to unlock the next perk level.

Fallout 4 is best experienced on Survival difficulty, where settlements actually play a big role in your success. You kill, loot, and build. If someone enjoys that kind of gameplay loop, it can be an amazing experience.

 

[spookyfish]

That's what happens when you listen to the loud minority that claimed the Mako sections in Mass Effect was good.

True story: I played through most of ME1 before I realized YOU COULD ZOOM the Mako's cannon. I'm shooting all these enemies, squinting and trying to see these distant enemies. Gotta say -- did okay with that.

 

[March Climber]

Mass Effect and KotOR did multiple planets reasonably well.

Yes, because those two games made space travel a quick selection on a menu screen.

They didn't need a loading screen to go back to your ship, a loading screen to enter the ship, a loading screen to take-off, a loading screen to move to the next star system, a loading screen to move to a specific planet within that system, a loading screen to land on that planet, and a loading screen to exit the ship so you can explore on said planet.

If a modder ripped out the space feature of Starfield and just made it a selectable menu like Kotor and Mass Effect, that would massively and immediately resolve about 80% of the above issue.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Yes, because those two games made space travel a quick selection on a menu screen.

They didn't need a loading screen to go back to your ship, a loading screen to enter the ship, a loading screen to take-off, a loading screen to move to the next star system, a loading screen to move to a specific planet within that system, a loading screen to land on that planet, and a loading screen to exit the ship so you can explore on said planet.

If a modder ripped out the space feature of Starfield and just made it a selectable menu like Kotor and Mass Effect, that would massively and immediately resolve about 80% of the above issue.

This already exists in the game. All you have to do is open your quest log, and with one click you can teleport to wherever that quest takes place. Sometimes you'll be placed on the planet, other times you'll appear in your ship in orbit around the planet, depending on the situation.

 

[LordCBH]

Starfield would have been significantly better had it only had hand crafted locations. It's got some really solid building blocks (ship building, combat) to build on, but the game just didn't do anything worthwhile with it outside of some of the faction quest lines.

There's big potential upside in a sequel if they sort out the issues.

 

[Madserb2023]

Well yes. The mystery to me is that I remember watching a documentary on Morrowind where they talked about dropping procedural generation because it wasn't good for creating an interesting world. It's like they had a lobotomy.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Starfield multiplayer modders give up because the game is 'trash'

Starfield is 'trash' according to modders

www.gamingbible.com

ok

 

[The Thick Tyne]

I agree. Also uninteresting enemies. And lackluster special abilities.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

No Man's Sky is still procedural but way more engaging and interesting because it's basically seamless.

Starfield is not even trying to mask the loadings like, say, SW Outlaws. It's so immersion breaking I can't put it into words.

 

[GHG]

No man's Sky reaches 20-25k CCU peaks daily (x7 more than Starfield) despite having fractally more procedural content.
Starfield is just doing it wrong.

Also, looks like Sean just teased a new update and user engagement for NMS is about to jump up to 100k'ish, again.

Most space games are procedurally generated and manage to be fun/engaging, even when traversing empty spaces.

These guys have done nothing but be full of excuses since the launch of this game.

 

[March Climber]

This already exists in the game. All you have to do is open your quest log, and with one click you can teleport to wherever that quest takes place. Sometimes you'll be placed on the planet, other times you'll appear in your ship in orbit around the planet, depending on the situation.

You are telling a half truth. That feature is not available when you have to travel to somewhere new. I have played the game too.

 

[Sooner]

I mean...The story wasn't remarkable either.

But... the gameplay, character design, transitions from zone to zone..

All sucked, too.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

The lore was nowhere as interesting or appealing as the Fallout and Elder Scrolls lore. I know everyone has to start somewhere but I doubt Starfield would ever reach either of them even if they were to make more Starfield games.

The other thing was having way less handcrafted stuff in Starfield. They should have focus on one planet or a few instead of doing a thousand or hundreds of planets with random generated crap.

Lacked the charm and soul out of the other two.

Overall it's the combination of these three main points that will never allow Starfield to be as good as Elder Scrolls and Fallout games.

It's also a massive uphill battle in the first place because Elder Scrolls and Fallout games are easily the best games of all times once modded and is already up there even without mods.

 

[Lootlord]

Didn't even make it past the tutorial when it released.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You are telling a half truth. That feature is not available when you have to travel to somewhere new. I have played the game too.

Of course, it's not available if the location hasn't been discovered yet, just like in every other modern Bethesda game.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Can we agree that procedurally generated content was the AI slop of it's time?

 

[March Climber]

Of course, it's not available if the location hasn't been discovered yet, just like in every other modern Bethesda game.

...And what's the big difference between Starfield and other Bethesda games?

 

[JayK47]

They really do not want to talk about the real problem with these games.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

...And what's the big difference between Starfield and other Bethesda games?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Nobody would argue that Starfield isn't missing that classic Bethesda exploration where you just wander from place to place. But saying you need to go through five loading screens to travel anywhere is false. You can be in the middle of nowhere on a planet and, with a single click, fast travel straight to Neon Core in one loading screen. And on PC, it's blazing fast. Is it good design for a space game? Absolutely not.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Really? Procedurial generative levels was the problem?

My man, there is a long list... and that might be number 4 or 5 on that list.

I am waiting for the list to load. Going to take a while.

 

[March Climber]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Other Bethesda games take place on one planet. When you're exploring outside on those games, you can explore new places with traveling, maybe using skills to help speed up that traveling. The only breaks exist when entering new delves, big towns, castles, etc.

Nobody would argue that Starfield isn't missing that classic Bethesda exploration where you just wander from place to place.

That's the key part that makes Starfield worse to explore in. That was why I originally brought up the loading screen issue. It is amplified in Starfield due to the nature of it's exploration.

But saying you need to go through five loading screens to travel anywhere is false.

For new locations this is true. Starfield, especially long side quests, will have you traveling to random new locations, sometimes multiple in one quest. The loading screens to travel to these places adds up, regardless of SSD-type.

There's a reason why they added the "screenshots being your loading screen" feature.

You can be in the middle of nowhere on a planet and, with a single click, fast travel straight to Neon Core in one loading screen. And on PC, it's blazing fast.

You just agreed with me about those new locations not containing said feature, here:

Of course, it's not available if the location hasn't been discovered yet, just like in every other modern Bethesda game.

There's no need to try and defend what we have both seen with our own eyes. We shouldn't even be having a disagreement here. The concept of Starfield does not suit Bethesda's engine due to the nature of that game, and this part I can agree with:

Is it good design for a space game? Absolutely not.

Edit: Gojiira don't bother bumping this thread to respond to someone who is baiting you.

 

[JORMBO]

That's a large part of it. No point in having 1000 planets if they are all just empty space with nothing to do on them.

There's also the boring, sterile writing. The exploring large amounts of space, but no real aliens or interesting races. Constant load screens. And everything having no real personality (look at the nightclub).

 

[Gojiira]

Ok so how does that explain the godawful quest design, godawful writing, the sheer lack of anything RPG related, the awful shooting, the unimaginative planets and the pointless ship building? Yeah Proc Gen is the least of its problems..

 

[JayK47]

I thought the shooting was good. It was wasted on Starfield though.

 

[rkofan87]

translation lazy developer game was too big.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Other Bethesda games take place on one planet. When you're exploring outside on those games, you can explore new places with traveling, maybe using skills to help speed up that traveling. The only breaks exist when entering new delves, big towns, castles, etc.

That's the key part that makes Starfield worse to explore in. That was why I originally brought up the loading screen issue. It is amplified in Starfield due to the nature of it's exploration.

For new locations this is true. Starfield, especially long side quests, will have you traveling to random new locations, sometimes multiple in one quest. The loading screens to travel to these places adds up, regardless of SSD-type.

There's a reason why they added the "screenshots being your loading screen" feature.

You just agreed with me about those new locations not containing said feature, here:

There's no need to try and defend what we have both seen with our own eyes. We shouldn't even be having a disagreement here. The concept of Starfield does not suit Bethesda's engine due to the nature of that game, and this part I can agree with:

Yeah, sorry, not going to read all that.

Ok so how does that explain the godawful quest design, godawful writing, the sheer lack of anything RPG related, the awful shooting, the unimaginative planets and the pointless ship building? Yeah Proc Gen is the least of its problems..

Fallout 4 is guilty of all those things too, but it still manages to be a solid exploration, looting, and building game. So in a way, I agree with that ex-Bethesda dev.

 

[Dithadder]

Well yes. The mystery to me is that I remember watching a documentary on Morrowind where they talked about dropping procedural generation because it wasn't good for creating an interesting world. It's like they had a lobotomy.

I was thinking "it will be interesting to see how they make the randomness work. They know it didnt work for daggerfall so theyre going to try something innovative and im intrigued."

 

[Danny22]

Isn't this where the rapid progress of AI could really help? Like making each planet seem somewhat different from the other. Maybe in 10-15 years, with mods, game could really improve?

 

[Gojiira]

Yeah, sorry, not going to read all that.



Fallout 4 is guilty of all those things too, but it still manages to be a solid exploration, looting, and building game. So in a way, I agree with that ex-Bethesda dev.

My god…Really? Fallout 4 failed miserably at those too…Building? Redundant, served zero gameplay reason,added nothing to the experience and had no mechanics or roleplaying attached to it. Loot? Awful, just trash or shitty guns with awful 'Legendary' effects…Exploration? Ehhhhhh its decent but pointless given how poor everything else…Nah Bethesdas problems run deep, from the very foundations, and the dumbfuck devs making excuses need a harsh wakeup call.

 

[Wilhelm_85]

Yeah, no shit. Such a half-assed game that was. Damn shame.