• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Starfield, FF16, GOW Ragnarok, or Tears of the Kingdom - which of these had the worst writing?

Which of these games have the worst writing?

  • Total voters
    551
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
FoxMcChief said:
GCTdxh7aAAAbJ3q


Makes sense when you know Sweet Baby Inc. worked on the game.
Click to expand...

They didn't "work on the game"; they were consulted for input, not all of which was used in the story already decided upon prior to consulting them.

Also lots of devs use consulting agencies like these in their games for a bit of insight. But that isn't the same as the agencies "working on the game" like an actual writer. Oddball assertion at the very least.

Optimus Lime said:
Apparently Gaf has a number of huge Sweet Baby Inc. fans, and isn't the alternative to ResetERA that it likes to think it is.
Click to expand...

I'm just wondering if user profiles can get a 'Live' tag at this point because...damn...you're on a warpath.

It's lookin' pretty rough but you're definitely on something....

....of a warpath.
 
Last edited:
Optimus Lime

Optimus Lime

(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
mckmas8808 said:
The only person who's an idiot is one that believes raising a son can't also be something a person can unwind to. Video games can be multiple things. I killed 500 monsters in GOW:R, but also listened to Kratos teach his son how to guide himself away from anger and revenge, because it can be harmful to him going forward in life.
Click to expand...
Good for you.

I don't give a fuck what you enjoyed. I expressed an opinion about what I enjoy. You've decided to abuse me because I'm 'wrong'. This was not reciprocal. I didn't say 'if you liked this game, you are wrong'.

I guess I'm just a better person than you.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
FoxMcChief said:
GCTdxh7aAAAbJ3q


Makes sense when you know Sweet Baby Inc. worked on the game.
Click to expand...


Oh so this is more about politics and NOT the game's writing. Got it! Carry on with the stupidity of the conversation then.\

Optimus Lime said:
Good for you.

I don't give a fuck what you enjoyed. I expressed an opinion about what I enjoy. You've decided to abuse me because I'm 'wrong'. This was not reciprocal. I didn't say 'if you liked this game, you are wrong'.

I guess I'm just a better person than you.
Click to expand...

Abuse you? Are you serious? Why are you getting so snowflaky on us? I responded to your post and gave my opinion on it. I didn't demand that you like the game or its writing.
 
Last edited:
Gaelyon

Gaelyon

Member
Optimus Lime said:
When people like you post this meme again, I always wonder - do you actually think you're doing something funny?

Like, in your mind, do you think people will read it again and go 'heh heh heh nice one'?

I don't know. It's just so weird. Must be a zoomer thing.
Click to expand...
What's funny is you're the meme. You so full of it you don't even get it when the navy seal was quoted to you the first time in this thread. You're the embodiment of the navy seal meme, congrats.
 
zapper

zapper

Member
I vote for spiderman 2, the writing is the worst I've seen in recent years, I don't save anything apart miles.

gow ragnarok has a rushed final act but I don't think it has bad writing while ff16 I think is by far the best of these.
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
mckmas8808 said:
I thank god every day that people like yourself hate my posts. Badge of honor indeed! Especially someone that thinks the only thing that makes a person a man is jiggling titties, fucking bitches, and killing monsters. You got the killing monsters, but GOD FORBID he has a child that he wants to raise and train in the ways to be a god. Nope can't do that!!!! Only pussies raise kids.

Let me guess, a REAL MAN would have smacked the mother of his child in the face and left that baby with her to raise by herself as he fucks some more chicks in a cave right?

Kratos is only here to jiggle titties and monsters am I right?
Click to expand...
You forgot that it's a historical fact that Spartans trained every day. From age 7 they are taken from their mothers in service of Sparta. They are taught never to retreat, never to surrender. Taught that grabbing a titty on the battlefield in service to Sparta was the greatest glory he could achieve in his life.
If he couldn't jiggle titties and suck a nip, they were thrown to the wolves, left to fend for themselves.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Yoboman said:
You forgot that it's a historical fact that Spartans trained every day. From age 7 they are taken from their mothers in service of Sparta. They are taught never to retreat, never to surrender. Taught that grabbing a titty on the battlefield in service to Sparta was the greatest glory he could achieve in his life.
If he couldn't jiggle titties and suck a nip, they were thrown to the wolves, left to fend for themselves.
Click to expand...
It's true, I saw it in that documentary, 300.
 
The Fuzz damn you!

The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
cormack12 said:
Seems odd you'd create a character then ask for someone else to consult on it tbh.
Click to expand...
Whether it’s a consultancy firm, or an editor, or a script doctor, or just a friend giving some feedback, EVERY damn character you see has had multiple people feed into their development. It’s very normal, although different people will have different goals in mind.
 
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
The Fuzz damn you! said:
Whether it’s a consultancy firm, or an editor, or a script doctor, or just a friend giving some feedback, EVERY damn character you see has had multiple people feed into their development. It’s very normal, although different people will have different goals in mind.
Click to expand...
I don't buy it tbh. You think that an editor or consultancy firm told J.K. Rowling to change any of her characters? It's something you seek if you want it imo. I just don't think if it was my character I'd be engaging with it.

Sure, the pub or marketing may approach them, but if I was lead creative on my own character I'd be like spin on it.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
cormack12 said:
I don't buy it tbh. You think that an editor or consultancy firm told J.K. Rowling to change any of her characters? It's something you seek if you want it imo. I just don't think if it was my character I'd be engaging with it.

Sure, the pub or marketing may approach them, but if I was lead creative on my own character I'd be like spin on it.
Click to expand...
It's all a part of that DEI culture-rot. I.e. a grift, but a culturally and creatively damaging one.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
cormack12 said:
Seems odd you'd create a character then ask for someone else to consult on it tbh.
Click to expand...

Most content creative companies do this. For instance, this was done for Ghost of Tsushima

To ensure that the game's world was authentic, the team consulted Japan Studio, a fellow Sony game development team, early in the game's development. Japan Studio was excited about the idea and helped fly approximately 10 members of Sucker Punch to Japan and Tsushima Island for a 10- or 11-day guided tour with a historian.[37] The team visited Japan twice to research Tsushima, once during the summer and again in November, during the anniversary of the invasion.[38][39][40] Japan Studio also helped connect Sucker Punch with historians who the team consulted on the history of the invasion and local Japanese customs and traditions. Experts on Japanese dialects, religions during the 13th century, and the recreation of 13th century kanji were also consulted.[39][41] The team invited Ide Ryusetsu and Kuwami Masakumo Shike, experts from a samurai martial arts school, to perform motion capture for the game and advise the team on sword-fighting.[42][37] Seattle-based historical sword fighting expert David Ishimaru was also involved in the creation of the game's combat style.[43] While the team initially considered introducing real-life historical figures into the game, they refrained from doing so after being told by experts that it would be insensitive. Jin's samurai armor and katana are not historically accurate, with his armor based on that of the Sengoku period during the 16th and 17th centuries. According to Chris Zimmerman, one of Sucker Punch's cofounders, samurai armor from the 13th century was "jarring looking" and did not align with players' expectations of what samurai armor would look like.[41] The katana was included in the game since it was considered to be the "quintessential icon of samurai".[45] One of the game's Japanese localizers also suggested to the developers that the game's "haiku" side quest be replaced with a less anachronistic waka side quest, but this was rejected based on the relative recognizability of haiku outside Japan.[46]
Click to expand...

en.wikipedia.org

Ghost of Tsushima - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org



Again this is normal to have consultants for many parts of development. Even development of characters.
 
Last edited:
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yoboman said:
You forgot that it's a historical fact that Spartans trained every day. From age 7 they are taken from their mothers in service of Sparta. They are taught never to retreat, never to surrender. Taught that grabbing a titty on the battlefield in service to Sparta was the greatest glory he could achieve in his life.
If he couldn't jiggle titties and suck a nip, they were thrown to the wolves, left to fend for themselves.
Click to expand...

You can just grab 'em by the titty, when you're a Spartan, you can get away with it.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
DeepEnigma said:
Historical accuracies, sure.
Click to expand...

Cultural accuracies also. If the people you are creating still exist today......it's the same end goal. Just try to get it right\accurate or as good as possible so that it connects is the end goal.

Rockstar did the same thing with their GTA games. They did it with GTA: San Andreas.

Rockstar North conducted massive amounts of research before developing the gangs of San Andreas-this involved talking to DJ Pooh, Mister Cartoon, Estevan Oriol, and hundreds of other well-known faces.
Click to expand...
gtasa.fandom.com

Gangs

Rockstar North conducted massive amounts of research before developing the gangs of San Andreas-this involved talking to DJ Pooh, Mister Cartoon, Estevan Oriol, and hundreds of other well-known faces. Gangs play a much larger role than they did in Vice City. Firstly, the number of gangs has...
gtasa.fandom.com gtasa.fandom.com



This is what separates Rockstar from most developers in the world. The amount of research and consulting that they do is top-notch.
 
Last edited:
The Fuzz damn you!

The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
cormack12 said:
I don't buy it tbh. You think that an editor or consultancy firm told J.K. Rowling to change any of her characters?
Click to expand...

You mean in Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone? Or Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone?

Yes, there’s were absolutely editorial changes to Rowling’s work - undoubtedly fewer as the series went on, of course, but I have no doubt that they extended to character details. And, as it stands, her later works in particular would, imo, have benefited greatly from more vigorous editing… but that’s a different discussion.
 
cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
The Fuzz damn you! said:
You mean in Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone? Or Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone?

Yes, there’s were absolutely editorial changes to Rowling’s work - undoubtedly fewer as the series went on, of course, but I have no doubt that they extended to character details. And, as it stands, her later works in particular would, imo, have benefited greatly from more vigorous editing… but that’s a different discussion.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're saying here? There are two different Harry characters in the US/UK versions of the series? That doesn't make sense.

I'm not talking about editing or rejigging sections of a book to make it read better, or sending some to the cutting room. I'm specifically talking about the characters. Like you think a PR firm told JKR that actually Hermione won't work as a brainiac. We need her to be slutty arm candy. Hagrid isn't doing so well as a big snail, we'd prefer you write him as a giant?

Good character development is based on an established narrative - usually defined by the creative as part of experience and back story of the character. I don't think it's an accident we don't see that journey with Kratos, because that part of his narrative isn't defined, which leads to the ambiguity of the up and down nature of his Norse arc and contradictions (aside from the I'm not who I was cliche). Note, none of that really bothers me per se, it is what it is. None of this is so deep, and if sacrificing a bit of Kraros so we get the incredible Freya arc then I'm OK with that.

But I don't see a world where SSM open up conversations with some consultancy firm who say actually Brok and Sindri should not be dwarves and would play better as water/forest spirits because they are en vogue. I just don't see it- they are created thematically and specifically for their mythology?
 
The Fuzz damn you!

The Fuzz damn you!

Gold Member
cormack12 said:
I don't know what you're saying here? There are two different Harry characters in the US/UK versions of the series? That doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Just pointing out that the book was subject to editorial changes. One of those changes it obvious, so I drew your attention to it. I have no doubt that other changes were applied specifically to characters as well. Maybe not to the extent that you go on to discuss, but it’s a normal process. That’s all.
cormack12 said:
Good character development is based on an established narrative - usually defined by the creative as part of experience and back story of the character. I don't think it's an accident we don't see that journey with Kratos, because that part of his narrative isn't defined, which leads to the ambiguity of the up and down nature of his Norse arc and contradictions (aside from the I'm not who I was cliche). Note, none of that really bothers me per se, it is what it is. None of this is so deep, and if sacrificing a bit of Kraros so we get the incredible Freya arc then I'm OK with that.
Click to expand...

God of War is certainly different from Harry Potter. The IP is owned by a corporation not an individual, and the creative aspects are led by a variety of people (Jaffe, Barlow, etc.) over time, each with a different narrative they want to use this character to tell. Yes, these absolutely mean that the character will appear more fragmented and result in a story that appeals directly to the consumer base more so than being derived from any consistent intention of an author. Like I said, there will be different goals behind the consultations that are taken, but the process itself - seeking feedback on elements of a narrative, including characterisation - is normal.
 
G

GeeseGoose

Member
I liked TOTK's story, and I haven't played SM2, GOW:R or SF, so... I voted FF16.

To be honest I likely wouldn't have had a change of mind had I played one or more of the ones I hadn't as FF16's story suffers from many issues, not least of which is pacing.
 
Puscifer

Puscifer

Member
Going Ragnarok for the fact I got cock teased the entire game. Spider-Man 2 was fun when I played it with my boyfriend who made me get over that hump with all the dialogue and whatnot. I liked how they played with scream and anti venom and set up carnage, I'll be shocked if they manage to make it darker without an m rating next time
 
Last edited:
ShadyAcshuns

ShadyAcshuns

Member
I'd of had to have played Ragno and SM2 in order to have a legit vote. That prereq is just too high of a barrier for me.
 
Last edited:
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
mckmas8808 said:
Cultural accuracies also. If the people you are creating still exist today......it's the same end goal. Just try to get it right\accurate or as good as possible so that it connects is the end goal.

Rockstar did the same thing with their GTA games. They did it with GTA: San Andreas.


gtasa.fandom.com

Gangs

Rockstar North conducted massive amounts of research before developing the gangs of San Andreas-this involved talking to DJ Pooh, Mister Cartoon, Estevan Oriol, and hundreds of other well-known faces. Gangs play a much larger role than they did in Vice City. Firstly, the number of gangs has...
gtasa.fandom.com gtasa.fandom.com



This is what separates Rockstar from most developers in the world. The amount of research and consulting that they do is top-notch.
Click to expand...
I tend to lump cultural with historical, but not shoehorned current year revisionism.

The examples you provided were the positive and sound sides, the one that was quoted prior, waste of money.
 
Last edited:
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
LakeOf9 said:
It contradicts every single previous Zelda game so far, including and up to its own direct predecessor
Click to expand...

How does TOTK contradict BOTW? It doesn't fully explain everything about how the two are connected, but I don't think it contradicts it either.
 
L

LakeOf9

Member
RoadHazard said:
How does TOTK contradict BOTW? It doesn't fully explain everything about how the two are connected, but I don't think it contradicts it either.
Click to expand...
The lore is where the contradictions occur, mostly when trying to reconcile the Zonai with the Sheikah, and Calamity Ganon with Ganondorf especially what we know of the final dragon form he was keeping as his endgame. The nature of TOTK being the kind of story it is also causes causality consistency issues between BOTW and TOTK for the master sword
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LTTP : God of War Ragnarok
2
50
2K
Gaiff replied
  • Poll
Which was the more technically impressive game, Starfield or Tears of the Kingdom?
2
99
6K
Dcr1d3r replied
[GI.biz] The future of storytelling with Ken Levine
27
1K
mitch1971 replied
  • Poll
Eurogamer: Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient
Opinion Analysis 2 3 4
171
16K
Dazraell replied
  • Poll
Between Xbox One and Wii U, which one do you think is better?
Cringe Retro 2 3
113
5K
BlackTron replied
Top Bottom