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[Delusibeta]

are any of its DLC worth getting?

It's all horse armour. Admittedly, it's fun, well priced horse armour, but horse armour nonetheless. All the DLC I'd price at about £3.50 in value, so wait until they're half price, then scoop the lot.

 

[Salsa]

I've done my fair share of criticizing actual indie games in the past. I only now talked about how annoying the fans are. It always struck me as odd that people are holding up really shallow games that focus more on 20 year old arcade mechanics or gimmicky ideas as the "only way to experience creativity and deep games again". It's pretty much the opposite of what I would call deep.

I think it's a pretty steep generalization to label those doing that as "indie game fans" along with everyone else. People like different things.

Super Meat Boy was and is one of my favorite 2D platformers and I was fucking glad it came out, but there's not much of a point in trying to top it, thus any 2D platformer that goes for that is all kinds of meh to me. Dustforce was different enough for example, and a lot of people loved it, but it didnt really grab me that much after playing something like 100 hours of meat boy.

that doesnt mean that I dont love or praise something like cart life, papers please etc etc.

what you're complaining about arent "indie game fans" as a generalization, you're complaining about a specific subset of people who enjoy that kind of stuff. It's like saying the indie market is trash because for a time there a lot of people tried to copy easy tower defense mechanics, yet that barely made a dent in the amount of games out there.

I mean do you call shooter fans "AAA fans"? no, they are shootbang enthusiasts, same thing with games made independently, there's as many if not more different genres. You're talking about Indie as if it was a genre when in reality it's just a way of distribution.



I get where you're coming from thinking like that though. There's a very specific thing that got associated with "indie games" as with the word hipster, but the fact that suddenly that's all popular and kind of a fad doesnt mean that it's accurate

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I don't mind 'Indie' games as such, I just don't like pay £20 for them when most of the ones on Steam were already available for 'free' at some point or in bundles. I'm sure most of them mentioned Steam keys when available.

 

[kurahador]

That's the kind of thing people mention when they're pointing out why you should never, ever take anything he says seriously. I don't think of an grumpy old man, I think of an angsty teenager. At least a grumpy old man's perspective might have some value.

I think I remember Derrick being younger than me. :/

 

[Snuggles]

I think I remember Derrick being younger than me. :/

Which would probably make you 18 or older, then. Not a surprise.

 

[crimsonheadGCN]

So with GDC this week, Valve is going to take part in a Physics discussion where Havoc is planning to announce the next version of it's engine. What are the chances that Source 2 is revealed with it?

Spoiler

0%

 

[Salsa]

So with GDC this week, Valve is going to take part in a Physics discussion where Havoc is planning to announce the next version of it's engine. What are the chances that Source 2 is revealed with it?

Spoiler

0%

I wouldnt say revealed as in showing anything, but it'll probably be formally announced

 

[Bumhead]

I just hate the fact that apparently "indie" is a genre.

Kind of agree.

I like playing games, not genres. I get as irritated when someone tries to sell me a game on the basis that its "indie" as I do when all a major publisher can say to promote their game is "we're AAAA!"

 

[Derrick01]

I think I remember Derrick being younger than me. :/

I might be, I have no idea how old you are (I'm 25).

You shouldn't listen to anything Snuggler says about me. He acts like a child and is always trying to attack me.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Guys I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight

 

[kami_sama]

Guys I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight

I WANT a shop of this, dammit!

 

[MMBosstones86]

Kind of agree.

I like playing games, not genres. I get as irritated when someone tries to sell me a game on the basis that its "indie" as I do when all a major publisher can say to promote their game is "we're AAAA!"

Agreed. I enjoy games...don't care if they are 'indie' or 'AAA' or something else.

Guys I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight

Go to your room...Mommy and Daddy are just 'talking'

 

[faceless007]

Why is the entire indie scene getting written off because it has a lot of cheap imitations and amateurish titles? Yes, most of them suck. 90% of everything sucks. Same with AAA games. Same with movies. Same with books. The trick, as with every medium in the world, is finding the ones that legitimately do something new and interesting. They're there if you bother to look, but if you're too lazy to and just insist on insulting people who do like them with lazy generalizations based on the crap, you're no better than the people who look down their noses at comic books or TV or even video games as a whole.

 

[allansm]

Honestly there are so many good indie platformers that one has to be executed almost as well as Rayman Origins for me to take notice anymore. Look at Fly'N for an example. So good.

I agree there are many good indie platformers, but there are much more average ones. I enjoyed games like Rochard, Snapshot, Offspring Fling, 1000 Amps, Pid, Pixel Junk Eden, Dustforce so much that it becomes difficult to enjoy something like Deadlight (which is not as bad as many say). Platforming is a genre with many great games already, in my opinion, unless the developers are really confident they can create a great platformer, they should focus on other genres instead.

 

[Im_Special]

This might be pointless because everyone should already have Just Cause 2, but if you don't...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAvBLl8aBBY
Get it.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I think it's a pretty steep generalization to label those doing that as "indie game fans" along with everyone else. People like different things.

Super Meat Boy was and is one of my favorite 2D platformers and I was fucking glad it came out, but there's not much of a point in trying to top it, thus any 2D platformer that goes for that is all kinds of meh to me. Dustforce was different enough for example, and a lot of people loved it, but it didnt really grab me that much after playing something like 100 hours of meat boy.

that doesnt mean that I dont love or praise something like cart life, papers please etc etc.

what you're complaining about arent "indie game fans" as a generalization, you're complaining about a specific subset of people who enjoy that kind of stuff. It's like saying the indie market is trash because for a time there a lot of people tried to copy easy tower defense mechanics, yet that barely made a dent in the amount of games out there.

I mean do you call shooter fans "AAA fans"? no, they are shootbang enthusiasts, same thing with games made independently, there's as many if not more different genres. You're talking about Indie as if it was a genre when in reality it's just a way of distribution.



I get where you're coming from thinking like that though. There's a very specific thing that got associated with "indie games" as with the word hipster, but the fact that suddenly that's all popular and kind of a fad doesnt mean that it's accurate

Sure. I understand what you mean. But to me I think too many Indiedevelopers just try to "monetize" on already popular ideas. And often, at least it looks like that to me, it fails, because they do not put enough time into it.
I wouldnt call Puzzle-Platformers cheap, but at least for me I played enough already and even though Snapshot or Closure looks nice, somehow I felt like I played this Game already.

 

[Tempy]

Hm, I own GameMaker Studio Standard and can play it if I go to the store entry, but I can't see it in my Games, Tools, or Software lists.

EDIT: Nevermind, installed it and it appears under Software.

 

[Salsa]

Sure. I understand what you mean. But to me I think too many Indiedevelopers just try to "monetize" on already popular ideas. And often, at least it looks like that to me, it fails, because they do not put enough time into it.
I wouldnt call Puzzle-Platformers cheap, but at least for me I played enough already and even though Snapshot or Closure looks nice, somehow I felt like I played this Game already.

that's just the way of the world. People trying to make a quick buck or being unoriginal are everywhere. Bashing indie development because of that is silly when it's an attitude that plagues every single creative work

 

[Chairmanchuck]

that's just the way of the world. People trying to make a quick buck or being unoriginal are everywhere. Bashing indie development because of that is silly when it's an attitude that plagues every single creative work

I am not bashing the indie development in general. Just pointing out, that at least for me, there are too much developers who do not really try to create an own idea, but use an already established one.

 

[RionaaM]

Guys I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight

Would you like it more if I brought the mud pool?

 

[Salsa]

I am not bashing the indie development in general. Just pointing out, that at least for me, there are too much developers who do not really try to create an own idea, but use an already established one.

my argument is that even then that's more of what you could say about the big games


then again i'll join the sentiment of I just like games dont care how they came about

I just think the advances of independent games and their ability to get self-distribuited or by Steam or whatever without the need of a publisher is pretty important, so to see people say stuff like "I wish indie games would die" or implying it is really fucking weird. Specially when you then see all those people complaining about shooter sequel mania

 

[zkylon]

I am not bashing the indie development in general. Just pointing out, that at least for me, there are too much developers who do not really try to create an own idea, but use an already established one.

the preconception that indie games should be completely out there and innovative is bound to disappoint.

they don't have shareholders' responsibility but they gotta feed their families and they often can't sit around for years coming up with the next braid.

indie just means publisher-free, nothing else, loving indies for being indies is just as much as a mistake as running through the cod treadmill every year.

and the being upset about hipsters so I hate indie games logic is way below what I'd expect from you derrick (though I share the sentiment of wishing indies would try their hands at immersive sims)

 

[nexen]

my argument is that even then that's more of what you could say about the big games


then again i'll join the sentiment of I just like games dont care how they came about

I just think the advances of independent games and their ability to get self-distribuited or by Steam or whatever without the need of a publisher is pretty important, so to see people say stuff like "I wish indie games would die" or implying it is really fucking weird

I don't want indie games to die but I want them to diversify more. Platformers in particular are just played out. I think it will correct itself via natural selection. (case in point: Twin stick shooters)
My only other complaint is that we need better ways of making sure the cream rises to the top. Discover-ability on every DD channel I've seen is very poor.

 

[Salsa]

loving indies for being indies is just as much as a mistake as running through the cod treadmill every year.

I think if loving indies means loving the way they are distributed and how they can be out there without the need of a publisher (wich is all the word "indie" should imply) then that's alright

 

[Grief.exe]

I am not bashing the indie development in general. Just pointing out, that at least for me, there are too much developers who do not really try to create an own idea, but use an already established one.

Generally they take an established idea and run with it.

Take Terraria for example, they took the established Minecraft and Metroidvania model and ran with it.

Did they add anything particularly innovative? Not really if you think about the base concepts here.

Did they craft an amazing game nevertheless? Yes.

Orcs Must Die and Bastion are other good examples of this.

I think Binding of Isaac and Hotline Miami are examples of innovation.

 

[zkylon]

I think if loving indies means loving the way they are distributed and how they can be out there without the need of a publisher (wich is all the word "indie" should imply) then that's alright

agreed

 

[Glass Rebel]

again, not looking at the right places. The reason 2D-retro looking platformers are so popular is the same reason why all AAA shooters are more populars than other genres: it's what most people want/demand/buy. Doesnt mean that every indie game is like that.

look outside of steam, check Toma's monthly threads. There's a TON of stuff getting released constantly.

Then again, even on Steam alone ive been playing Antichamber, Don't Starve, and FEZ and Monaco coming up. I would argue you'd never see something like that if the indie "scene" lets call it, didnt exist.

I can only talk for myself but what I'm saying is that the "indie market" has reached a point where there's so much in many different genres (some good, some bad) but not many have tried their hand at the genres I enjoy the most. "Papers, Please" seems to be that kind of game that scratches my Phoenix Wright itch (at least one half of it), Axiom Verge might finally be that Metroidvania that can compete with the best in the genre and Telepath Tactics could be a good Fire Emblem substitute but there's still a lot that I miss. I guess it's unfair of me to expect indies to fill the holes that the big publishers have left and I can say that indies have left a much bigger impression on me this generation than most traditional publishers but I'm over the honeymoon phase.

 

[FloatOn]

1-6 is now PixelJunk Inc (PC/Mac/Linux): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G1dq-W418ok

Here's the blog post. They mention possible Steam Workshop support.

It's probably worth a thread. I call not it.

Wow this looks fucking cool. I loved Pixeljunk Eden.

Indie games 4eva.

 

[nexen]

Generally they take an established idea and run with it.

Take Terraria for example, they took the established Minecraft and Metroidvania model and ran with it.

Did they add anything particularly innovative? Not really if you think about the base concepts here.

Did they craft an amazing game nevertheless? Yes.

I really do think that the most innovative games in the last few years have been indies. They are a small minority, sure, but it still seems to be the case.

loving indies for being indies is just as much as a mistake as running through the cod treadmill every year.

I like indies for two reasons:

1) they sometimes come up with really novel gameplay.
2) they are generally cheaper and shorter than industry games.

That being said I'll take a major release from one of my favorite franchises over any indie game I've ever played.
The game industry writ large will absorb any good ideas indie games come up with anyways.

 

[tjohn86]

Can anyone who unlocked Bioshock Infinite with a VPN confirm if achievements work?

 

[Bumhead]

Is Dirt 3 shit?

 

[toddhunter]

At least a grumpy old man's perspective might have some value.

Thanks. Good to finally get some recognition around here.

 

[zkylon]

btw papers please is pretty good, right?

I have it sitting on my desktop waiting to be played.

and speaking of which I have these indie games in my desktop and I'm feeling like going through them, I'll take suggestions:
mainichi
don't get raped
insert title here
mad father
katawa shoujo
barkley
depression quest
papers please
umineko

 

[JordanKZ]

Is Dirt 3 shit?

DiRT3 is great.

 

[Salsa]

btw papers please is pretty good, right?

I have it sitting on my desktop waiting to be played.

and speaking of which I have these indie games in my desktop and I'm feeling like going through them, I'll take suggestions:
mainichi
don't get raped
insert title here
mad father
katawa shoujo
barkley
depression quest
papers please
umineko

this is so bad you'll probably like it

it's all uguu and shit

 

[zkylon]

I really do think that the most innovative games in the last few years have been indies. They are a small minority, sure, but it still seems to be the case.


I like indies for two reasons:

1) they sometimes come up with really novel gameplay.
2) they are generally cheaper and shorter than industry games.

That being said I'll take a major release from one of my favorite franchises over any indie game I've ever played.
The game industry writ large will absorb any good ideas indie games come up with anyways.

yeah I can't say I would put indie games in my top 5 list, but I'd certainly sneak in a couple in the top 10 or 20.

nowadays I enjoy about like 7 or so indies a year while I'll be lucky if I get one or two mainstream games I like and even then it's fringe things like spec ops the line.

 

[FloatOn]

I've done my fair share of criticizing actual indie games in the past. I only now talked about how annoying the fans are. It always struck me as odd that people are holding up really shallow games that focus more on 20 year old arcade mechanics or gimmicky ideas as the "only way to experience creativity and deep games again". It's pretty much the opposite of what I would call deep.

Now if they want to refocus on 10-15 year old crpgs or the FPS/RPG hybrids like Deus Ex and SS2, then indie games will finally have my interest.

You act like crpgs and FPS/RPG hybrids are the pinnacle of everything. Are you so sure you wouldn't tire of them just as you are frustrated by 20 year old gimmicky arcade mechanics if they were as popular?

In other words, it seems like you are picking one old gameplay style mechanic over a slightly older other gameplay style. What makes one better than the other? Could it be your own personal taste?

Anything has the capacity to become an overplayed novelty.

 

[nexen]

yeah I can't say I would put indie games in my top 5 list, but I'd certainly sneak in a couple in the top 10 or 20.

nowadays I enjoy about like 7 or so indies a year while I'll be lucky if I get one or two mainstream games I like and even then it's fringe things like spec ops the line.

Yeah, I like a lot of indie games but none enough that I would consider them an all-time favorite.

Oh thought of a reason 3:
Their budgets are lower so they can serve a niche that the mainstream industry doesn't.

Like adventure games. I have a lot of indie adventure games.

 

[Derrick01]

You act like crpgs and FPS/RPG hybrids are the pinnacle of everything. Are you so sure you wouldn't tire of them just as you are frustrated by 20 year old gimmicky arcade mechanics if they were as popular?

In other words, it seems like you are picking one old gameplay style mechanic over a slightly older other gameplay style. What makes one better than the other? Could it be your own personal taste?

Anything has the capacity to become an overplayed novelty.

Because they are the pinnacle of everything

But in all seriousness there's a lot more room in those games to be creative than 2D games or many of these games indies make now. Short of changing the jumping mechanics in a 2D platformer I'm serious when I say they all feel the same to me. Many arcade style games are also trapped by their shallowness too. That's the penalty of making those types of games.

But a CRPG is limited only by someone's ability to write a good story and design a good RPG, and games like Deus Ex are limited only by one's ability to craft intricate levels with many hidden options. You can do just about anything you want to with those games if you're skilled enough. It's really tough to do though which is probably why people just kind of stopped making them one day.

 

[zkylon]

this is so bad you'll probably like it

it's all uguu and shit

yeah it also seems to be pretty sick of mind and that's a feeling I can get on board with

I should just howlongtobeat them and go shorter to longer.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Oh, is Derrick the guy that believes Deus Ex is the greatest RPG ever?

 

[Salsa]

Oh, is Derrick the guy that believes Deus Ex is the greatest RPG ever?

hey mang I kinda agree that Deus Ex is the best of it's genre. Dont go at him for the wrong reasons. Derrick's taste is pretty much shared throughout on the whole of GAF. People complaint about his constant bitching about games that end up not being like that, not because that's what he likes.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

hey mang I kinda agree that Deus Ex is the best of it's genre. Dont go at him for the wrong reasons.

No, I was just remembering why I thought he seemed familiar. I remember him getting angry at people enjoying the 'RPG' elements of sport games such as MyPlayer mode in NBA and FIFA.

 

[toddhunter]

But in all seriousness there's a lot more room in those games to be creative than 2D games or many of these games indies make now. Short of changing the jumping mechanics in a 2D platformer I'm serious when I say they all feel the same to me. Many arcade style games are also trapped by their shallowness too. That's the penalty of making those types of games.

2012: Frog fractions, Resonance, Slender, Retro city rampage, FTL hotline miami, super hexagon, mark of the ninja, torchlight 2, journey, the unfinished swan.

Current highlighted indie games on steam? No 2D platformer to be found.

I don't like Indie games, I like some games made by indie developers.

 

[RionaaM]

Oh, is Derrick the guy that believes Deus Ex is the greatest RPG ever?

Then Derrick is the guy who is right.

And this isn't nostalgia, I played it for the first time less than 2 months ago. Such a fantastic game, doesn't feel old at all.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

I've tried to support as many of the 'indie' PnC titles that have been released, as I enjoy those.

Then Derrick is the guy who is right.

And this isn't nostalgia, I played it for the first time less than 2 months ago. Such a fantastic game, doesn't feel old at all.

We talking about the early 2000s version or the latest Deus Ex? As the latest one was pretty horrible.

 

[Salsa]

doesn't feel old at all.

that might be pushing it

 

[scorpscarx]

Just because they are cheap, doesn't mean you have to buy them!

 

[Glass Rebel]

Just because they are cheap, doesn't mean you have to buy them!

somewhere in austria jase noticed a disturbance in the system

 

[Derrick01]

We talking about the early 2000s version or the latest Deus Ex? As the latest one was pretty horrible.

The original. And I dunno if it's the best RPG ever, but it is my favorite game ever.