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[Refreshment.01]

The guys at Steam surely read Neogaf:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=38267663

So for years, i can't figure out why no manufacturer has incorporated a way for the controller to detect the grip applied to a its handles by the fingers. Middle finger, ring finger, and little finger are much of the time inactive interaction wise, serving just as support.

https://youtu.be/t8lulsNbZ_E?t=2m11s

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=38296025

Speaking of the GC analog trigger clicks.

I understand your reasoning and in practice it was the certainly the case for most applications. However, the fault falls in developers not coming up with good implementations since the "click" concept is a sound one. I'll give you 2 quick examples for good uses:

-Take RE4 when using the sniper pressing R will let you aim with an over the shoulder view and clicking would enter first person view. The quibble here is that the analog capability is not being used, so maybe the farther is pressed the quicker it draws.

It's really incredible how the ideas and concepts as explained in the video match with those comments.

 

[Krejlooc]

So one of Valve's controller team members says he's created a special MGSV controller configuration that he recommends to try. I'm pretty interested in seeing how it'll all work, so that'll definitely be my first stop. If it's not satisfactory, I have another configuration in mind that I'd like to try when it arrives.

I'm also really curious to try the final steam controller out with my Nvidia shield (portable), because it has a host of touch screen mapping and keyboard mapping software built in for the same reason. I'd like to see how well the steam controller works with it out of the box, without steam being present.

 

[Astral/H3X]

The guys at Steam surely read Neogaf:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=38267663



https://youtu.be/t8lulsNbZ_E?t=2m11s

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=38296025



It's really incredible how the ideas and concepts as explained in the video match with those comments.

Ever since I learned M/KB, I've dreamed of the day that I could use a trackball controller with some grip triggers, and Valve is most assuredly answering my dreams, so I'm certainly happy.

 

[ashecitism]

The guys at Steam surely read Neogaf:

They post too Look two posts above.

So one of Valve's controller team members says he's created a special MGSV controller configuration that he recommends to try. I'm pretty interested in seeing how it'll all work, so that'll definitely be my first stop. If it's not satisfactory, I have another configuration in mind that I'd like to try when it arrives.

Neat.

 

[Krejlooc]

They post too Look two posts above.

Well, they literally do. The guy I'm conversing with has a tag that reads "VALVE."

But, just checked his post history, he's only posted like 6 times, ha. I would lurk too if I worked at a high profile place like that.

I remember, one of the most mind blowing experiences I had on this board was this time I was quoting an old jeff minter interview from the Atari Jaguar Official Guide, and minter himself appeared on the board and joined in the conversation. What a trip!

 

[Refreshment.01]

Ever since I learned M/KB, I've dreamed of the day that I could use a trackball controller with some grip triggers, and Valve is most assuredly answering my dreams, so I'm certainly happy.

They post too Look two posts above.

Neat.

i just really like how they took past features of game controllers through out the years, even ones that didn't become industry standard but showed lots of potential, and just put it in there for people to experiment. The GameCube trigger clicks specially fits this case.

Althought one that is strangely missing, that it has become more or less ubiquitous after the Wii U Gamepad, is the inclusion of an standard headphone jack. But it is really minor, after all the controller trounces in features the Wii U Pro, DS4 and the X1 for just 50 U.S. But there are expected revisions so it's probably in the cards.

Maybe i' ll put up my finger dependant controller idea for Valve to read in the eternally bumped Controllers Innovations thread XD

 

[Nzyme32]

So one of Valve's controller team members says he's created a special MGSV controller configuration that he recommends to try. I'm pretty interested in seeing how it'll all work, so that'll definitely be my first stop. If it's not satisfactory, I have another configuration in mind that I'd like to try when it arrives.

I'm also really curious to try the final steam controller out with my Nvidia shield (portable), because it has a host of touch screen mapping and keyboard mapping software built in for the same reason. I'd like to see how well the steam controller works with it out of the box, without steam being present.

Well that's good to know. It is one of the prime examples of when I would want to use a Steam Controller's mouse-like precision for a game more designed around traditional controllers.

Dark Souls (1/2) work fine in Gamepad + Mouse mode.

Also good to know

 

[Krejlooc]

So some more info on the MGSV config - it works like discussed earlier in this topic, where it solely uses keyboard and mouse input. But it does the analog stick emulation I spoke about earlier, where a little bit of tilt on the stick adds the control modifier to make you walk, while full tilt removes that and lets you run.

The problem someone spoke of earlier - how the inventory item slots represented north and south also move tabs in the iDroid that are east and west - would still exist. But I said I would personally map them to the shoulder buttons to treat them like classic MGS inventory items, and to keep the east-west orientation at my fingers, so I don't think that would be a problem. You can be redundant if you'd like to - keys 1 and 3 mapped to L shoulder and R should, and up and down on the left touchpad.

 

[Krejlooc]

Althought one that is strangely missing, that it has become more or less ubiquitous after the Wii U Gamepad, is the inclusion of an standard headphone jack. But it is really minor, after all the controller trounces in features the Wii U Pro, DS4 and the X1 for just 50 U.S. But there are expected revisions so it's probably in the cards.

Most PCs have some form of built in bluetooth, so using a bluetooth headset is probably the easiest solution there. I have a skull candy headset that has it's own receiver.

 

[grandwizard]

So some more info on the MGSV config - it works like discussed earlier in this topic, where it solely uses keyboard and mouse input. But it does the analog stick emulation I spoke about earlier, where a little bit of tilt on the stick adds the control modifier to make you walk, while full tilt removes that and lets you run.

The problem someone spoke of earlier - how the inventory item slots represented north and south also move tabs in the iDroid that are east and west - would still exist. But I said I would personally map them to the shoulder buttons to treat them like classic MGS inventory items, and to keep the east-west orientation at my fingers, so I don't think that would be a problem. You can be redundant if you'd like to - keys 1 and 3 mapped to L shoulder and R should, and up and down on the left touchpad.

Can you test something with the MGSV config for me? When walking at a slow speed so the ctrl modifier is being input, try to hit whatever the menu button is which should trigger the ESC key. I would like to know if that triggers the Windows start menu and will make you lose focus of the game, because unfortunately a lot of games have ctrl as the default Walk modifier, and when mapping it to an analog stick like the Steam controller it can lead to a lot of instances where ctrl is just 'on' even if the stick is neutral. This means that hitting the menu button triggers the start menu, or similarly sometimes it can happen with other functions like the Steam overlay. It'd be great if the Steam controller software can somehow isolate these inputs so the combinations don't happen.

 

[Krejlooc]

Can you test something with the MGSV config for me? When walking at a slow speed so the ctrl modifier is being input, try to hit whatever the menu button is which should trigger the ESC key. I would like to know if that triggers the Windows start menu and will make you lose focus of the game, because unfortunately a lot of games have ctrl as the default Walk modifier, and when mapping it to an analog stick like the Steam controller it can lead to a lot of instances where ctrl is just 'on' even if the stick is neutral. This means that hitting the menu button triggers the start menu, or similarly sometimes it can happen with other functions like the Steam overlay. It'd be great if the Steam controller software can somehow isolate these inputs so the combinations don't happen.

My controller should arrive monday, so I'll try it then.

 

[Nzyme32]

Can you test something with the MGSV config for me? When walking at a slow speed so the ctrl modifier is being input, try to hit whatever the menu button is which should trigger the ESC key. I would like to know if that triggers the Windows start menu and will make you lose focus of the game, because unfortunately a lot of games have ctrl as the default Walk modifier, and when mapping it to an analog stick like the Steam controller it can lead to a lot of instances where ctrl is just 'on' even if the stick is neutral. This means that hitting the menu button triggers the start menu, or similarly sometimes it can happen with other functions like the Steam overlay. It'd be great if the Steam controller software can somehow isolate these inputs so the combinations don't happen.

Surely you mean crouch is most commonly bound to Ctrl?

This is beside the point though. System combos should not be used in game for obvious reasons. They are still important key combos for OS functions that many users require. Most games including MGSV will let you rebind the keys in game anyway making it a non-issue, but they already are set up in such a way that accidental activation of something like that is difficult / a rare occurrence if at all.

Not once have I had this issue particularly with the Ctrl key combos, and mapping Ctrl to the controllers analogue stick or pretty much anything else really doesn't seem like it will increase this issue. Deadzones are there for a reason, so an input should not be "on all the time"

However I have had issues with the overlay in some games, eg Deus Ex and the conflict of f12 for screenshot and light augmentation - but the overlay keys are rebindable anyway.

 

[Branduil]

i just really like how they took past features of game controllers through out the years, even ones that didn't become industry standard but showed lots of potential, and just put it in there for people to experiment. The GameCube trigger clicks specially fits this case.

The steam controller in some ways seems like the evolution of the GC controller that we never got.

 

[Krejlooc]

Recording a video of myself using a steam controller on an Amiga CD32.

Getting obscure as hell lol.

 

[grandwizard]

Surely you mean crouch is most commonly bound to Ctrl?

This is beside the point though. System combos should not be used in game for obvious reasons. They are still important key combos for OS functions that many users require. Most games including MGSV will let you rebind the keys in game anyway making it a non-issue, but they already are set up in such a way that accidental activation of something like that is difficult / a rare occurrence if at all.

Not once have I had this issue particularly with the Ctrl key combos, and mapping Ctrl to the controllers analogue stick or pretty much anything else really doesn't seem like it will increase this issue. Deadzones are there for a reason, so an input should not be "on all the time"

However I have had issues with the overlay in some games, eg Deus Ex and the conflict of f12 for screenshot and light augmentation - but the overlay keys are rebindable anyway.

Walk is usually either on ctrl or alt, both of which introduce these issues with Windows functions if they combine with other keys (like esc). I know this because I have been mapping keyboard inputs to a controller with a stick for years now, including using an analog threshold for ctrl/alt walk modifiers so I have run into these issues and want to see what the Steam controller does to avoid them. Even with a hefty deadzone put on a stick, you will still end up in situations where the system still sees ctrl/alt as 'on' or very recently 'on' and triggers one of these system wide functions if you hit a combination key.

The reason the accidental activation of these things is a rare occurrence on an actual keyboard is because of the way a keyboard is laid out and where your fingers are and how many inputs you will be using at once. It's very unlikely to be rolling around on WASD and then stretch your hand to hit both ctrl or ALT and ESC at the same time. It's much more likely when using a type of gamepad emulating a keyboard though.

As for key rebinding making it a non-issue, you are correct and that is usually my ultimate solution if it gets to be too annoying. However when you have to rebind things in-game you lose the ability to have universal easy config downloading, as they won't match up anymore to what the game has as inputs. For example if I change my key bindings in game, then the configs I download from the Steam controller overlay won't work right because they would be based off the default controls.

 

[CO_Andy]

How high is the Steam Controller on your list of all time fave controllers, Krej?

 

[AdrianF]

Can you test something with the MGSV config for me? When walking at a slow speed so the ctrl modifier is being input, try to hit whatever the menu button is which should trigger the ESC key. I would like to know if that triggers the Windows start menu and will make you lose focus of the game, because unfortunately a lot of games have ctrl as the default Walk modifier, and when mapping it to an analog stick like the Steam controller it can lead to a lot of instances where ctrl is just 'on' even if the stick is neutral. This means that hitting the menu button triggers the start menu, or similarly sometimes it can happen with other functions like the Steam overlay. It'd be great if the Steam controller software can somehow isolate these inputs so the combinations don't happen.

This is actually fixed. It won't send the CTRL key down if the stick is resting inside the dead zone.

 

[grandwizard]

This is actually fixed. It won't send the CTRL key down if the stick is resting inside the dead zone.

Awesome, thanks

 

[SirMossyBloke]

I can't wait for this controller. The keyboard is the most archaic way to move I've ever seen.

 

[Krejlooc]

How high is the Steam Controller on your list of all time fave controllers, Krej?

Mm, I can't say about the final version, but my favorite controller of all time is the Sega Saturn model 2 controller.

I think, in the end, the steam controller will be way more useful than the saturn controller, but nostalgia will always keep my saturn controller number 1.

 

[Krejlooc]

So it seems I've finally found the extent of the steam controller. Passing it through 3 different converters wound up on it not registering on the Amiga CD32, lol. I was going from USB, to PS/2, to Serial, to Amiga serial. Somewhere along the way, it just bogs down. The controller receives power, and I can hear the transducers spin, but it doesn't register as a mouse. However, using a normal USB mouse in this same situation yields the same results.

That said, it DOES work as a keyboard on the Amiga CD32.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

How is latency on the controller? Wired and Wireless. I've always felt like trackpads respond a little slower than I'd like them to. The macbooks are close, but they still feel a hair slower than a mouse, though I have no idea why that would be.

 

[Krejlooc]

How is latency on the controller? Wired and Wireless. I've always felt like trackpads respond a little slower than I'd like them to. The macbooks are close, but they still feel a hair slower than a mouse, though I have no idea why that would be.

It's in your head. They are as fast as a normal mouse.

Wired, this is just like any other wired mouse.

 

[Krejlooc]

Just got confirmation that the d-pad mode I've spoken about - the one that requires you to actually push the left touchpad down like a button to activate (instead of just registering any touch on the pad as input) - made it in to the final version of the steam controller.

The single feature I was hoping more than anything else they'd include. Now I'm all psyched about the controller even more lol.

The is the mode the Super Meat Boy dev talked about way back when. It was not in the prototypes that everyone else received.

 

[TheNoblePirate]

Just got confirmation that the d-pad mode I've spoken about - the one that requires you to actually push the left touchpad down like a button to activate (instead of just registering any touch on the pad as input) - made it in to the final version of the steam controller.

The single feature I was hoping more than anything else they'd include. Now I'm all psyched about the controller even more lol.

The is the mode the Super Meat Boy dev talked about way back when. It was not in the prototypes that everyone else received.

Very good to hear! It's going to be fun trying out some good 2D platformers or fighting games with this. Although I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, does the entire touchpad press down evenly when depressed, regardless of where you press down? And how sensitive is the button, like how much pressure does it need compared to more traditional buttons?

 

[M_A_C]

Just got confirmation that the d-pad mode I've spoken about - the one that requires you to actually push the left touchpad down like a button to activate (instead of just registering any touch on the pad as input) - made it in to the final version of the steam controller.

The single feature I was hoping more than anything else they'd include. Now I'm all psyched about the controller even more lol.

The is the mode the Super Meat Boy dev talked about way back when. It was not in the prototypes that everyone else received.

Thats cool. I have one preordered already, and I'm really curious to see how it will be for fighting games and such.

 

[Krejlooc]

Very good to hear! It's going to be fun trying out some good 2D platformers or fighting games with this. Although I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, does the entire touchpad press down evenly when depressed, regardless of where you press down? And how sensitive is the button, like how much pressure does it need compared to more traditional buttons?

The entire pad is one button and presses down evenly. Think of it like the A button on a gamecube controller.

The difference between the prototype and how this works is that the prototype treated the left touchpad basically like a mobile phone touch screen. The slightest brush of your finger on the pad registered as input. The way it would work is it would figure out where on the pad your finger was touching, and translate that into a direction. If you rested your finger on touch pad (like many people do with a dpad) it would act as constant input.

You can use haptic feedback to make the touchpad feel like it's rocking, even though it's not. And you can customize a deadzone small enough so that you can rock your finger on the touchpad just like a d-pad. This new mode makes it so that it doesn't send input until you actually press down on the button, making it feel like a real, normal d-pad.

In the prototypes, the touchpads felt about as stiff as any other button on any other controller. It's not quite as stiff as pressing down on a thumb stick. It feels very much like a large, normal gamepad button.

Also new in the final version is a cross shape on the left pad. The prototype didn't have this, it had a series of circles eminating around the center of the pad. I am extremely curious to see what this cross indention feels like, but I'm guessing that, all together with the cross shape under your thumb, the haptic feed back, and the push activation, this is going to feel absolutely nothing like the prototype. It's something I haven't seen any of the people who have gotten their hands on the final controller talk about, and it's the thing I will investigate first before anything else.

 

[MattyG]

I've got to order one of these soon. I didn't realize it came out the same day as Fallout 4, that's perfect.

Anyone know if Steam charges at point or purchase or when it ships?

 

[TheNoblePirate]

The entire pad is one button and presses down evenly. Think of it like the A button on a gamecube controller.

The difference between the prototype and how this works is that the prototype treated the left touchpad basically like a mobile phone touch screen. The slightest brush of your finger on the pad registered as input. The way it would work is it would figure out where on the pad your finger was touching, and translate that into a direction. If you rested your finger on touch pad (like many people do with a dpad) it would act as constant input.

You can use haptic feedback to make the touchpad feel like it's rocking, even though it's not. And you can customize a deadzone small enough so that you can rock your finger on the touchpad just like a d-pad. This new mode makes it so that it doesn't send input until you actually press down on the button, making it feel like a real, normal d-pad.

In the prototypes, the touchpads felt about as stiff as any other button on any other controller. It's not quite as stiff as pressing down on a thumb stick. It feels very much like a large, normal gamepad button.

Also new in the final version is a cross shape on the left pad. The prototype didn't have this, it had a series of circles eminating around the center of the pad. I am extremely curious to see what this cross indention feels like, but I'm guessing that, all together with the cross shape under your thumb, the haptic feed back, and the push activation, this is going to feel absolutely nothing like the prototype. It's something I haven't seen any of the people who have gotten their hands on the final controller talk about, and it's the thing I will investigate first before anything else.

So, even while it's depressed, the haptics can effectively guide your finger between the different input regions simulating a d-pad? I'm very curious how it will feel rolling from one "end" of the d-pad to the other, or even going into the diagonal inputs. I'm guessing that you could have the haptic feedback be kind of soft while resting your finger on it, and then feel stronger "resistance" (if that's even the right word) when the touchpad is pushed in.

I have to admit, I'm even more interested in how the haptics will make the button regions on the right touchpad feel. Like, could it be made to feel like your finger is more elevated to show you're over the simulated button? My mind is racing with possibilities here, although I suppose in due time I'll be able to see for myself, haha.

 

[fertygo]

still waiting an demonstration of this controller whether or not can help one handed person like me enjoying game more

 

[Krejlooc]

So, even while it's depressed, the haptics can effectively guide your finger between the different input regions simulating a d-pad? I'm very curious how it will feel rolling from one "end" of the d-pad to the other, or even going into the diagonal inputs. I'm guessing that you could have the haptic feedback be kind of soft while resting your finger on it, and then feel stronger "resistance" (if that's even the right word) when the touchpad is pushed in.

I have to admit, time even more interested in the haptics will make the button regions on the right touchpad feel. Like, could it be made to feel like your finger is more elevated to show your over the simulated button? My mind is racing with possibilities here, although I suppose in due time I'll be able to see for myself, haha.

The haptics in this pad don't let you feel shapes or elevation, so you won't feel like you're thumbing over a button. Rather, the haptic feedback lets you feel motion. It makes the pads themselves feel like they are moving in a specific direction. It's why so many compare the right pad to a trackball - because when you flick your thumb over it, you would swear you are spinning a trackball. It's really hard to explain until you try it, but I had to spend a good 10 minutes convincing one of my friends (who doesn't play many games) that the pad in the prototype wasn't actually spinning, and that it was a flat, motionless piece of plastic, and everything he was feeling was basically his brain tricking him.

So with that in mind, with regards to the left pad, the haptics don't let you feel the d-pad. Rather, they let you feel the left pad itself shift around. You know how, on a SNES controller, you couldn't press the left and right arrows at the same time? When you would shift your thumb from the right side of the pad to the left side of the pad, you could feel the plastic that made up the dpad pivot? It basically rocked in place because it was actually pivoting on a small chunk of plastic in the center of the d-pad:

The touchpads on the steam controller don't actually move at all (other than being able to depress them down). Haptics let you regain the feeling that the pad is rocking around, even though it isn't. The physical indention on the pad is what you are supposed to feel to make you feel like you are touching an actual d-pad (and the right pad lacks this), while the physical button that the touchpad itself resides on is what gives you the weighty throw you feel when you press down on a d-pad on a conventional controller.

You can certainly use the right pad like a diamond button layout, but that's not really how the controller is supposed to be used. You have 10 separate inputs around the controller that your fingers naturally rest on without ever taking your thumbs off both touch pads. Those are where you are supposed to handle your action button inputs. If that's too daunting for you, there is an actual diamond button cluster in the bottom left corner. I think they've done a nice job of providing alternatives and redundancy around the controller, which is good design.

 

[Krejlooc]

still waiting an demonstration of this controller whether or not can help one handed person like me enjoying game more

I should have the controller in by monday evening. I'll be doing a live stream when I get it, with a small webcam pointed at my hands on the controller so people can judge. If you tune in, I'll try to operate the final version with one hand.

I can operate the prototype with one hand very easily, fwiw.

 

[TheNoblePirate]

Okay, so the haptics give a sense of motion, huh...it's odd, because the most I can really think of is simple vibrations, and it's really hard to picture how it will actually feel. Truly, the wait is going to kill me, as I need to experience this firsthand!

Also, the reason I mentioned using the right touchpad as diamond button inputs is that I wanted to try just simulating a normal gamepad but by using the paddles in back as modifiers for the each touchpad. It would replace the need to lift my thumb in order to get both "joysticks", a d-pad, and buttons. But, I'm sure that there might be better mappings once I play around with it, I just figured that would be my first thing to try.

Anyways, must get to sleep now, thank you for the info Krejlooc!

 

[Krejlooc]

Okay, so the haptics give a sense of motion, huh...it's odd, because the most I can really think of is simple vibrations, and it's really hard to picture how it will actually feel. Truly, the wait is going to kill me, as I need to experience this firsthand!

The best description I can give is that it feels the same way it feels when you spin mouse scroll wheel up and down, except instead of being a wheel and thus spinning only one way, it feels like a sphere. You feel these "ticks" or "clicks" as this imaginary sphere spins like it's in a socket. If you flick your finger fast over the pad, you can still hear and feel these clicks like the ball is spinning and slowing down.

The controller lets you do all sorts of things in terms of frequency and intensity of these clicks. If you were to do one really large, heavy click (with no spin) afterwards as you move around the pivot in the middle of the d-pad, it would feel like the pad is rocking rather than a ball spinning.

This has really interesting effects if you play a really old mouse-driven FPS like doom or wolfenstein. Most people have forgotten this, but you could play those games entirely with a mouse - where moving the mouse forward and backwards made you walk forward and backwards, and you turned left and right with the mouse as well. Well, with the steam controller, each "step" you take is felt as a "click" on the pad. you can actually feel how many steps you make.

With native programming of the pad, you could do awesome stuff like combining the two styles of input. Imagine a fps where the left pad acted like a d-pad when you depressed it - as long as you held down the button, you'd continue to move in the direction you chose. But, if you didn't press the button, but rather just moved your thumb over the pad, you could slowly walk and feel each individual step. This could let you do really fine, small corrections by swiping your finger, and travel long distances by pressing a button.

Also, the reason I mentioned using the right touchpad as diamond button inputs is that I wanted to try just simulating a normal gamepad but by using the paddles in back as modifiers for the each touchpad. It would replace the need to lift my thumb in order to get both "joysticks", a d-pad, and buttons. But, I'm sure that there might be better mappings once I play around with it, I just figured that would be my first thing to try.

Anyways, must get to sleep now, thank you for the info Krejlooc!

You can totally do that if you want, btw. You can use modifiers to turn the existing 10 inputs at your fingers into dozens.

 

[Shy]

Wonder what this pad is going to be like for street fighter.

 

[Krejlooc]

Where things get really exciting is when you think about the haptic touchpads being used in the Lighthouse VR controllers. If you really break down the purpose and utility of both the touchpads and the lighthouse controllers, you can do so much all together.

The touchpads essentially give you a 2D plane which you can interact with using your thumbs. By attaching this to a lighthouse controller, you now have a small 2D plane of input that you can rotate and position around in 3D space. The possibilities for this are huge.

Combine this with context sensitive inputs, and you can create some compelling virtual worlds. You know how, in zelda, one moment the A button will pick up a pot, and the next it'll open a door? you can use the 2D plane at your thumbs the same way depending on what objects they collide with in 3D space.

So, my go to example for conceptualizing this is a door in a game like heavy rain. In heavy rain, they made you do random motions with the dual shock controllers to simulate what your hands were doing. You could use that to greater effect in VR. So say you encounter a door with a deadbolt lock on it, like so:

By merely holding the lighthouse controllers in your hand, the VR game can show your hands with 1:1 precision. So you reach out to grab the deadbolt on the door, and as you get close to it, a small icon appears floating next to your hand instructing you to make a circular motion with your thumb on the haptic feedback pad. And as you do so, you pull the deadbolt around the lock and open it up.

These kinds of haptic touchpads can do so much more than mere button presses and, within the context of VR, I'm extremely excited with what I can do. I think motions like these will help us feel like we're much closer to being in the world we see in VR. I'm well familiar with how much being able to see your hands in VR improves the experience (I'm part of the team that made the HL2VR mod, after all). I think these touchpads will be a huge step forward when the Vive launches. The touchpads are why I'm more excited about lighthouse than Oculus' Constellation input system. Positional tracking is a problem that's been largely solved for this first consumer release of VR. In that regard, what separates the two input devices is their gimmicks, and a floating 2D plane is way more useful to me than index finger orientation recognition. Especially when it comes to UX/UI, with floating menus in space.

 

[laxu]

The settings are in a game/application basis, so you have to lauch your gog game through Steam to configure it and everytime you want to use those settings you set.

You are talking about the left analog? In this case the best setting is putting to emulate the xbox 360 left analog so you will have the same precision.

That's too bad, I hope they improve it to allow easier system wide use or someone makes a 3rd party app that does it. Do you need to be in Big Picture mode to configure?

Unfortunately many games don't support controller and mouse at the same time. GTA V and Witcher 3 do but for example MGS V doesn't. I really hope Valve or someone can persuade Konami to patch it so that mouse and controller could be used simultaneously. At the moment it doesn't seem like there is anything stopping it as just hitting a mouse button changes the input method.

 

[viveks86]

Where things get really exciting is when you think about the haptic touchpads being used in the Lighthouse VR controllers. If you really break down the purpose and utility of both the touchpads and the lighthouse controllers, you can do so much all together.

The touchpads essentially give you a 2D plane which you can interact with using your thumbs. By attaching this to a lighthouse controller, you now have a small 2D plane of input that you can rotate and position around in 3D space. The possibilities for this are huge.

Combine this with context sensitive inputs, and you can create some compelling virtual worlds. You know how, in zelda, one moment the A button will pick up a pot, and the next it'll open a door? you can use the 2D plane at your thumbs the same way depending on what objects they collide with in 3D space.

So, my go to example for conceptualizing this is a door in a game like heavy rain. In heavy rain, they made you do random motions with the dual shock controllers to simulate what your hands were doing. You could use that to greater effect in VR. So say you encounter a door with a deadbolt lock on it, like so:

By merely holding the lighthouse controllers in your hand, the VR game can show your hands with 1:1 precision. So you reach out to grab the deadbolt on the door, and as you get close to it, a small icon appears floating next to your hand instructing you to make a circular motion with your thumb on the haptic feedback pad. And as you do so, you pull the deadbolt around the lock and open it up.

These kinds of haptic touchpads can do so much more than mere button presses and, within the context of VR, I'm extremely excited with what I can do. I think motions like these will help us feel like we're much closer to being in the world we see in VR. I'm well familiar with how much being able to see your hands in VR improves the experience (I'm part of the team that made the HL2VR mod, after all). I think these touchpads will be a huge step forward when the Vive launches. The touchpads are why I'm more excited about lighthouse than Oculus' Constellation input system. Positional tracking is a problem that's been largely solved for this first consumer release of VR. In that regard, what separates the two input devices is their gimmicks, and a floating 2D plane is way more useful to me than index finger orientation recognition. Especially when it comes to UX/UI, with floating menus in space.

Great post. Can't wait to see what the consumer version of the Vive controllers look like.

 

[Tele_Viper]

I'm planning to wire my home entertainment system to my PC via HDMI. While my PC rig is only one room away, I doubt that the Steam controller will work flawlessly with a wall between it and the receiver.
I do have a USB "repeater' extension cable. I could feed that through the same hole in my wall as the HDMI and attach the Steam Controller receiver to it. That should work, right?

 

[Krejlooc]

I'm planning to wire my home entertainment system to my PC via HDMI. While my PC rig is only one room away, I doubt that the Steam controller will work flawlessly with a wall between it and the receiver.
I do have a USB "repeater' extension cable. I could feed that through the same hole in my wall as the HDMI and attach the Steam Controller receiver to it. That should work, right?

you could run an ethernet cable instead and use a steamlink to connect your PC to your TV. That would let you use the steam controller at your TV through the steam link.

I'll try a few USB cables with the dongle when it arrives and let you know the results. I have some extremely long USB cables of varying brands.

 

[Refreshment.01]

still waiting an demonstration of this controller whether or not can help one handed person like me enjoying game more

This is somewhat of a tangent, but you got to try Wii games extensively? i know the library is not the "New It Thing" now but it was the only mainstream console that had a pretty significant library for people that need or enjoy one handed gaming. There are even games that work 2 handed that let you use one handed if the console didn't detect any attachment.

Also, the reason I mentioned using the right touchpad as diamond button inputs is that I wanted to try just simulating a normal gamepad but by using the paddles in back as modifiers for the each touchpad. It would replace the need to lift my thumb in order to get both "joysticks", a d-pad, and buttons. But, I'm sure that there might be better mappings once I play around with it, I just figured that would be my first thing to try.

That would surely when you get use to it and as long as the game doesn't need combination of the face buttons (i think).

For example, take one of the Arkham games. Traversal with the hookshot with an stem controller could work withouth lifting the thumb and withouth using shoulder/trigger buttons. Aim the hookshot with the trackpad and depress to fire it.

However, special moves such as the swarm or diasrm/breake weapon needed the combination of two face buttons. i don't know if the Steam controllers trackpads are multi touch but even if they were you wouldn't be able to simulate a dual press just with one thumb.

 

[ashecitism]

One of the config pics mentions double tap for the right pad.

 

[Krejlooc]

However, special moves such as the swarm or diasrm/breake weapon needed the combination of two face buttons. i don't know if the Steam controllers trackpads are multi touch but even if they were you wouldn't be able to simulate a dual press just with one thumb.

If you press in the area between two input zones, it acts like pressing both of them at once.

One of the config pics mentions double tap for the right pad.

Yeah, or you could map macros to the double tap feature of the pads. The left pad can do the same thing.

 

[Hyun Sai]

Wonder what this pad is going to be like for street fighter.

Yeah, but if it doesn't work on the PS4, I fear it will stay niche for a game like SFV.

Would be nice to have some fighting games feedback though !

 

[Krejlooc]

When you play fighting games using the steam controller, the main benefit is being able to use all your fingers on what is essentially a 6 button controller at that point. I have a friend who got good at sfiv with his steam controller prototype and we would play against each other. That said, one reason he was so enamored with it was because he had - and liked the turbo touch 360 as a child. So opinions and all that. He said he liked how easy it was to do circular motions.

Myself, I only play fighting games with a proper stick. I have my own custom built one that is universal, and an mk te stick for neverrealm's fighting games.

 

[ashecitism]

Krejlooc, have Valve said anything regarding audio jacks or adapter for future versions?

Yeah, but if it doesn't work on the PS4, I fear it will stay niche for a game like SFV.

Would be nice to have some fighting games feedback though !

In the thread I linked at the very end, there are vids with people playing fighters with the old model.

 

[Refreshment.01]

If you press in the area between two input zones, it acts like pressing both of them at once.

Yes, but in the example i gave the Arkham Games use a total of 4 face button combos for special moves.

In this case i assume it would take extensive practice to train muscular memory. A workable way would be to divide the right trackpad in 4 areas corresponding to each face button. The right trackpad doesn't have the benefit of a cross like texture like the left one, i don't think the concentric rings are as workable for the purpose of simulating the diamond shape button configuration.

The feedback for the finger needs to be a little more complex to reliably pull off the 4 face button combos. Given the 4 area trackpad segmentation, probably 2 combos are achievable confortably. im probably not coming off clear enough of what im talking about, sadly.

Anyway, maybe this is another thing for you to test for the eventual video. Maybe, if you like, you could ask the guys here to list some of their questions so you can have a sort of guide of things to try in the video. Just an small suggestion. XD

Krejlooc, have Valve said anything regarding audio jacks or adapter for future versions? .

Krejlooc already kind of answered this in this or the last page when i brought up the jack omission. Basically claimed there are a lot of alternatives for wireless headsets in PC to be bother by this XD

 

[Gren]

When you play fighting games using the steam controller, the main benefit is being able to use all your fingers on what is essentially a 6 button controller at that point. I have a friend who got good at sfiv with his steam controller prototype and we would play against each other. That said, one reason he was so enamored with it was because he had - and liked the turbo touch 360 as a child. So opinions and all that. He said he liked how easy it was to do circular motions.

Myself, I only play fighting games with a proper stick. I have my own custom built one that is universal, and an mk te stick for neverrealm's fighting games.

That sounds really promising. At this point for me, I could take either or, so long as the d-pad is good. It'll be crazy if this ends up being the only input device I'll ever need. Always about reducing clutter.

 

[Jedi2016]

But first a small bit about Link

Store page (includes description and specs)

I'm far more interested in the Link than I am the controller.. hopefully there will be a dedicated thread for that at some point.

 

[Unai]

That's too bad, I hope they improve it to allow easier system wide use or someone makes a 3rd party app that does it. Do you need to be in Big Picture mode to configure?

Unfortunately many games don't support controller and mouse at the same time. GTA V and Witcher 3 do but for example MGS V doesn't. I really hope Valve or someone can persuade Konami to patch it so that mouse and controller could be used simultaneously. At the moment it doesn't seem like there is anything stopping it as just hitting a mouse button changes the input method.

At least in the prototypes people are using you do need to be in big picture mod to configure. I can't see why they wouldn't update that to work outside big picture in the future, though.