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[TrebleShot]

I think people are vastly underestimating the good will Valve has, people will buy this thing in droves. Id imagine it will do about as well as a Steam Deck.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I haven't been excited about a game or hardware announcement in years. This is doing it for me. I think I'm the target market -- a long-time console gamer tired of the major players, curious about PC gaming but averse to the hassles. This will be a easy entry point. The specs don't worry me, nor does the price. Bring on the Gabecube.

If you play mainly singleplayer games, you are the target market. If you play a bunch of multiplayer games, it largely depends on whether the developer enabled anticheat support for Linux.

 

[analog_future]

I think people are vastly underestimating the good will Valve has, people will buy this thing in droves. Id imagine it will do about as well as a Steam Deck.

That puts it at 5-7 million sold though. Which is fine but nothing industry changing.

 

[MrAlwaysRight]

Power doesn't mean anything when it is locked down and has limited functionality. The value proposition is not the same.

Er it does mate, it's a PC, it's not going to have games made for that locked down configuration, it's just going to have PC games and Valve will try and make recommended settings for it, that isn't the same as a console, you'd be crazy paying anymore than that for a mini pc with such weak hardware

 

[cyberheater]

I've heard that Valve is working on porting Half Life Alxy to run natively on the Frame. I hope they manage it.

 

[Humdinger]

If you play mainly singleplayer games, you are the target market. If you play a bunch of multiplayer games, it largely depends on whether the developer enabled anticheat support for Linux.

Yes, I play almost exclusively SP games. I don't have any interest in the sorts of games that the anticheat issue would prohibit.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

That puts it at 5-7 million sold though. Which is fine but nothing industry changing.

It doesn't have to be industry-changing though, not right now. As long as it helps grow the PC/console hybrid device market segment, that's good enough. As long as it gets more people to actually start using Steam OS and/or other Linux distros alongside or in replacement of Windows, that's a win.

No one should be expecting this thing to compete with PlayStation or Nintendo, not with the info (or lack thereof) we have at this time when it comes to things like the volume they seek to push, what physical retail outlets they plan to sell it in, etc. From the look of things, level of volume production and distribution method seems to be similar to Steam Deck pre-3P OEMs jumping in, at least to start. So point of comparison should be with the Steam Deck, not PS5 or Switch 2 or even Series S & X.

However, that doesn't mean Valve can't expand the production volume and availability/distribution methods over time. It doesn't mean they can't expand on advertising and onboarding 3P OEMs to build variants either. But it's not going to be some 0-100 sudden spike; it'll be very gradual and paced accordingly, which has worked for them. Everything they are doing between hardware, the OS, OEMs etc. seems to be cascading and interweaving into one another like an orchestra, and it's a stark contrast to Microsoft's approach seems to be, where they're just haphazardly throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks, with little in the way of cohesion or clarity.

 

[analog_future]

It doesn't have to be industry-changing though, not right now. As long as it helps grow the PC/console hybrid device market segment, that's good enough. As long as it gets more people to actually start using Steam OS and/or other Linux distros alongside or in replacement of Windows, that's a win.

No one should be expecting this thing to compete with PlayStation or Nintendo, not with the info (or lack thereof) we have at this time when it comes to things like the volume they seek to push, what physical retail outlets they plan to sell it in, etc. From the look of things, level of volume production and distribution method seems to be similar to Steam Deck pre-3P OEMs jumping in, at least to start. So point of comparison should be with the Steam Deck, not PS5 or Switch 2 or even Series S & X.

However, that doesn't mean Valve can't expand the production volume and availability/distribution methods over time. It doesn't mean they can't expand on advertising and onboarding 3P OEMs to build variants either. But it's not going to be some 0-100 sudden spike; it'll be very gradual and paced accordingly, which has worked for them. Everything they are doing between hardware, the OS, OEMs etc. seems to be cascading and interweaving into one another like an orchestra, and it's a stark contrast to Microsoft's approach seems to be, where they're just haphazardly throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks, with little in the way of cohesion or clarity.

I agree, for sure. 5-10 million would be a win IMO.


I will say though that they're jumping in at an interesting time, with Microsoft more-or-less bowing out from the traditional hardware space. They have an opportunity to eat Microsoft's lunch here.

 

[xXRedxSlugXx]

You can tell they designed this thing based off of the Steam Hardware survey info they've been collecting over the years.

Quick Rundown:
6 core CPU (Intel is 2.3 - 2.69Ghz | AMD is 3.7Ghz+) -VS- AMD Zen4 6 Core (4.8Ghz boost) Nice improvement
16GB of Ram -VS- Same
Nvidia RTX 3060 (says 8GB vram is average for users) -VS- "RX 7600m (give or take)" (should trade blows with it but 8GB vram will most likely hurt it in the long run)
1TB Harddrive -VS- 512GB and 2TB models offered

Also most VR users are already using a Quest 3 on steam (Steam Frame seems real similar as well)

Also other than Monster Hunter Wilds (that's a Capcom issue) and obviously Linux not supporting kernel level anti-cheat (though frustrating you can't play some games, its a good thing in my opinion, you shouldn't want that), anything in the top 100 most played games on steam will run perfectly fine on this.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

If controller is included it should be no more than 500

It's likely going to be $499 for the 512 GB model (with controller), potentially $549, and upwards $699 - $749 for the 2 TB version.

Which I think would be very fair prices for what you're getting.

Valve has already been quoted saying, its not going to be console priced, its going to entry level PC priced. Insinuating it's MORE expensive, unless they are being cheeky and are somehow undercutting console price.

They've also been quoted as saying affordability is a target they want to hit with this. Consider the Steam Deck was notably more powerful than the Switch and could also be used as a computer, but launched for only $100 more than the original Switch's launch price.

So why would a Steam Machine that's somewhere between a Series S & PS5 (closer to PS5) in performance, can be used as a computer, and doesn't have a built-in screen, suddenly cost 2x the price of a Series S or PS5 for the cheapest SKU? That sudden pricing strategy makes no sense for Valve going by what they've done for Steam Deck.

The PS5's cheapest SKU was $399 at launch. The redesigned PS5 Digital was $449 at launch. Hence the $499 - $549 price range on the Steam Machine 512 GB model. A $150 - $250 premium on the higher-capacity 2 TB SKU is once again within range of the pricing strategy Valve had for the higher-end Steam Deck models at launch.

There's no real reason to expect massive deviation from that strategy considering initial volume and distribution method for Steam Machine seems like it will mirror Steam Deck.

I know this is just one data point but I quickly pulled up a pre-built (Cyberpower) with an AMD 7600cpu 6 core, 16GB or ram, 1TB storage and a RX7600xt and its $899. Feel free to show me the prebuilt for $400 - $500. Maybe you can find one? (I searched some more and quickly found 2 more, both around $1,000 (same specs).

You're using consumer-end MSRP pricing to gauge the prices actual companies pay in bulk, on contracts, for millions of pieces of components bought directly from the supplier (who typically is the component's manufacturer).

That's not something you should do. Regular customers always pay more per unit than what it costs the manufacturer to build the device or component.

I agree, for sure. 5-10 million would be a win IMO.


I will say though that they're jumping in at an interesting time, with Microsoft more-or-less bowing out from the traditional hardware space. They have an opportunity to eat Microsoft's lunch here.

Well, Microsoft's advantage is Windows market share. Even supposing that share among the consumer PC segment seriously eroded, they'd still probably have at least 45%, maybe a tad north 50% of total PC OS market share. Most of their market share these days probably comes from all the government and business institutions that run some flavor of Windows, plus their military defense, big pharma etc. contracts for Windows PCs. I don't see Linux ever encroaching that and Steam OS isn't interested in appealing to those market segments.

However, a major loss of Windows market share in the consumer PC space, particularly among gaming, would remove one of the few marketing & image branding vectors Microsoft can tap into for continued mindshare among the general public, because a lot of their consumer mass market-orientated products & services have either died or are in sharp decline. Mixer? Long dead. Xbox consoles? Heavy declines. Bing? Non-starter. Skype? Basically dead. Windows Phone? Long dead. Surface? Heavy decline. Hololens? Long dead. Internet Explorer? An afterthought to most users. Game Pass? Stagnant.

A lot of those are tied to Windows, and among Windows users I'd argue gamers and traditional content creators (video production, graphics design, 3D design etc.) are among its heaviest users in the consumer side. They're the types who represent the best access points for telemetry data, pushing AI and advertisements towards in Microsoft's eyes. And the more the software they use becomes compatible with alternatives like SteamOS, the more likely those types are to either use SteamOS for more things (reducing their usage of Windows), or drop Windows in favor of SteamOS or Linux altogether. And the larger in scale that happens, the more game developers on PC will prioritize APIs like Vulken & Open GL, again not in a way to completely drop DirectX, but where DirectX won't be the only "main" target for software optimization anymore. The more device manufacturers work on ensuring proper driver support for Linux and related OS distros. Again, removing things that have traditionally been Windows advantages only due to lack of competition from substantive alternatives, but that's starting to change.

These are things Microsoft ultimately doesn't want because they can't claim proprietary ownership over them. They can't control them. They can't dictate their usage at an industry-wide level. And if there's one thing these massive Big Tech companies love, it's having absolute control.

Also, and this just occurred to me, another reason this probably frightens Microsoft is because if Windows were to ever become only relevant in the business, military, pharmaceutical etc. industries, then they basically become another IBM. Well, they're already getting there, but Microsoft probably know better than anyone aside IBM themselves, what IBM's loss of the PC market ended up doing to the company as a whole. They still exist today in the business sector, but they aren't valued near what they were at their peak and are an also-ran to most customers in the consumer electronics & entertainment spaces these days. Same can be said of other once-massive companies like NEC.

Microsoft don't want that happening to them but it's inevitable if they have no product of significance maintaining a lock in some consumer entertainment space, as a tech company. It's why they wanted to buy TikTok and it's a big reason they purchased Zenimax & ABK (and Mojang). It's the type of stuff that gives these companies a sense of identity and meaning, plus having major successes in the consumer entertainment spaces helps with ingraining the brand to people within other spaces, like professional business environments. Nothing but dead or dying ventures in the consumer-side entertainment & electronics sector seriously impairs Microsoft and that's where the potential rapid growth of stuff like Valve's devices & Steam OS hurt them WRT Windows, since it compounds on the damage already inflicted by better competitors of Sony & Nintendo in the console gaming market and the declines of various major IP of MS's like Halo and Forza Motorsport.

 

[xXRedxSlugXx]

Valve said with the Steam Deck that the price point they were hitting was quote "painful", with the Steam Machine they seem to have made it clear they aren't trying to lose their asses with it. Also that pre-built price was in reference to another posters comment, not to why I think it'll be around $800.

 

[Kacho]

Linux not supporting kernel level anti-cheat (though frustrating you can't play some games, its a good thing in my opinion, you shouldn't want that)

Are you saying it's good because it deprioritizes soulless multiplayer shooters in favor of quality single player games?

 

[xXRedxSlugXx]

Are you saying it's good because it deprioritizes soulless multiplayer shooters in favor of quality single player games?

No because giving kernel level access to programs on your PC is a bad idea.

 

[Rob_27]

Steam Machine 499 Frame 499.
That would do me.

 

[purvispisgah]

It's likely going to be $499 for the 512 GB model (with controller), potentially $549, and upwards $699 - $749 for the 2 TB version.

Which I think would be very fair prices for what you're getting.



They've also been quoted as saying affordability is a target they want to hit with this. Consider the Steam Deck was notably more powerful than the Switch and could also be used as a computer, but launched for only $100 more than the original Switch's launch price.

So why would a Steam Machine that's somewhere between a Series S & PS5 (closer to PS5) in performance, can be used as a computer, and doesn't have a built-in screen, suddenly cost 2x the price of a Series S or PS5 for the cheapest SKU? That sudden pricing strategy makes no sense for Valve going by what they've done for Steam Deck.

The PS5's cheapest SKU was $399 at launch. The redesigned PS5 Digital was $449 at launch. Hence the $499 - $549 price range on the Steam Machine 512 GB model. A $150 - $250 premium on the higher-capacity 2 TB SKU is once again within range of the pricing strategy Valve had for the higher-end Steam Deck models at launch.

There's no real reason to expect massive deviation from that strategy considering initial volume and distribution method for Steam Machine seems like it will mirror Steam Deck.



You're using consumer-end MSRP pricing to gauge the prices actual companies pay in bulk, on contracts, for millions of pieces of components bought directly from the supplier (who typically is the component's manufacturer).

That's not something you should do. Regular customers always pay more per unit than what it costs the manufacturer to build the device or component.



Well, Microsoft's advantage is Windows market share. Even supposing that share among the consumer PC segment seriously eroded, they'd still probably have at least 45%, maybe a tad north 50% of total PC OS market share. Most of their market share these days probably comes from all the government and business institutions that run some flavor of Windows, plus their military defense, big pharma etc. contracts for Windows PCs. I don't see Linux ever encroaching that and Steam OS isn't interested in appealing to those market segments.

However, a major loss of Windows market share in the consumer PC space, particularly among gaming, would remove one of the few marketing & image branding vectors Microsoft can tap into for continued mindshare among the general public, because a lot of their consumer mass market-orientated products & services have either died or are in sharp decline. Mixer? Long dead. Xbox consoles? Heavy declines. Bing? Non-starter. Skype? Basically dead. Windows Phone? Long dead. Surface? Heavy decline. Hololens? Long dead. Internet Explorer? An afterthought to most users. Game Pass? Stagnant.

A lot of those are tied to Windows, and among Windows users I'd argue gamers and traditional content creators (video production, graphics design, 3D design etc.) are among its heaviest users in the consumer side. They're the types who represent the best access points for telemetry data, pushing AI and advertisements towards in Microsoft's eyes. And the more the software they use becomes compatible with alternatives like SteamOS, the more likely those types are to either use SteamOS for more things (reducing their usage of Windows), or drop Windows in favor of SteamOS or Linux altogether. And the larger in scale that happens, the more game developers on PC will prioritize APIs like Vulken & Open GL, again not in a way to completely drop DirectX, but where DirectX won't be the only "main" target for software optimization anymore. The more device manufacturers work on ensuring proper driver support for Linux and related OS distros. Again, removing things that have traditionally been Windows advantages only due to lack of competition from substantive alternatives, but that's starting to change.

These are things Microsoft ultimately doesn't want because they can't claim proprietary ownership over them. They can't control them. They can't dictate their usage at an industry-wide level. And if there's one thing these massive Big Tech companies love, it's having absolute control.

Also, and this just occurred to me, another reason this probably frightens Microsoft is because if Windows were to ever become only relevant in the business, military, pharmaceutical etc. industries, then they basically become another IBM. Well, they're already getting there, but Microsoft probably know better than anyone aside IBM themselves, what IBM's loss of the PC market ended up doing to the company as a whole. They still exist today in the business sector, but they aren't valued near what they were at their peak and are an also-ran to most customers in the consumer electronics & entertainment spaces these days. Same can be said of other once-massive companies like NEC.

Microsoft don't want that happening to them but it's inevitable if they have no product of significance maintaining a lock in some consumer entertainment space, as a tech company. It's why they wanted to buy TikTok and it's a big reason they purchased Zenimax & ABK (and Mojang). It's the type of stuff that gives these companies a sense of identity and meaning, plus having major successes in the consumer entertainment spaces helps with ingraining the brand to people within other spaces, like professional business environments. Nothing but dead or dying ventures in the consumer-side entertainment & electronics sector seriously impairs Microsoft and that's where the potential rapid growth of stuff like Valve's devices & Steam OS hurt them WRT Windows, since it compounds on the damage already inflicted by better competitors of Sony & Nintendo in the console gaming market and the declines of various major IP of MS's like Halo and Forza Motorsport.

This is a great post. Everyone should read it. Thank you.

 

[marjo]

The Steam Frame seams to be similar to the Meta Quest 3

On the plus side, they have eye tracking, better wireless streaming, and more comfortable ergonomics.

On the negative side, they have worse pass through, no hand tracking and, the big one, can't play meta exclusive vr games (which are quite plentiful).

I think in order to be successful, it needs to be within $100-$150 of the quest 3. So $650 tops.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

 

[lakitu1982]

Now I like the look of the Steam Machine. I like the look of the Steam Frame. But no OLED?

Will Alyx work on the Frame without the Steam Machine or will it need to be connected to it?

Is there a video of what the VR is capable on its own?

How fucking much dickwads!

i have no idea what im talking about but i would be highly surprised if VALVE released this thing without the capabilitiies of playing ALYX well. I'm sure it will play it well standalone.

 

[Killer8]

 

[BlueManifest]

Steam Machine 499 Frame 499.
That would do me.

Don't count on the headset being 500, meta sells the quest 3 for a loss at 500 and it's not as good as the frame like no eye tracking and weaker soc

800 is best case for headset I think

 

[Brakum]

If you play mainly singleplayer games, you are the target market. If you play a bunch of multiplayer games, it largely depends on whether the developer enabled anticheat support for Linux.

You could say a similar thing about consoles though.

if you play single player games, you are the target market, if you play a bunch of multiplayer games, it largely depends on whether the games you want even exist on console.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

i have no idea what im talking about but i would be highly surprised if VALVE released this thing without the capabilitiies of playing ALYX well. I'm sure it will play it well standalone.

actually...

So it sounds like they've been telling people openly that it's in the works. Their engine is amazing at running on lower hardware, so I think they'll find a way to get it to an enjoyable level.

 

[Minsc]

MicroSD cards stutter like hell, when playing modern games, no thank you.

Even on SteamOS.

Edit: But you can just use the SD card to "share the data" and load it to the SSD. No, that's what wifi is for. And it's FASTER.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Friends... I can say 100% that I will buy the most deluxe Steam Machine on its release.

 

[RainblowDash]

Im definitely getting one of the controllers day 1.

Maybe the VR sometime later

 

[HeisenbergFX4]