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[Borinot]

Google search engine has done more for me than all the apple products, and im not alone in this.

 

[Suairyu]

Google search engine has done more for me than all the apple products, and im not alone in this.

You know, I'm not entirely sure you can quantify either to the extent a comparison can be made.

Both were and are incredibly influential of their respective fields. I wouldn't even begin to rank them.

 

[ReBurn]

This thread reads like LiveJournal when someone's deviantART submission gets copied.

Steve Jobs was a lot of things to a lot of people. That much is sure. He was pretty much like I would expect any other CEO to be. He wanted his company to make a boatload of money. He was very protective of his company's intellectual property and fought vigorously to defend the image of Apple.

There are things I admire about him and the company he built, including the emphasis on design and engineering. There are things I didn't necessarily care for, like the pricing structure of the hardware and the way consumers ended up in the middle of the court battles. At the end of the day the guy is still dead and arguing about it now doesn't make a lot of difference. But at least it is entertaining lunchtime reading.

 

[milkyjay20]

i like how "pirates of silicon valley" portrayed jobs as an egotistical dick. best tv movie ever

for those who say "life is so much better now cuz of him," get some perspective please. i appreciate apple's contributions to technology, but to hear apple fans talk, jobs is a one-man industrial revolution.

You’re headed for a one-term presidency,” he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where “regulations and unnecessary costs” make it difficult for them. Jobs also criticized America’s education system, saying it was “crippled by union work rules,” noted Isaacson. “Until the teachers’ unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform.” Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year.

regulations being "not allowed to beat your workers" and unnecessary costs being "a decent wage."

 

[scorcho]

as far as my iphone usage goes, Maps has been by far the killer app. if only Apple and Google could work out their differences and program some of the improvements that Google brought over to the Android side (such as vector-based maps, tilting and navigation).

Android may have taken a lot of inspiration from iOS, but it's always had its own aesthetic and features to match.

 

[Jenga]

how big do u think the jobs penis was?

i hear a lot of geniuses have small penises to make up for their smartness

 

[rezuth]

as far as my iphone usage goes, Maps has been by far the killer app. if only Apple and Google could work out their differences and program some of the improvements that Google brought over to the Android side (such as vector-based maps, tilting and navigation).

Android may have taken a lot of inspiration from iOS, but it's always had its own aesthetic and features to match.

I think we can expect Maps to be the biggest new feature in iOS 6, they bought that map company ages ago.

 

[mattiewheels]

Do we have clues as to what android was like before they saw iOS and rehauled it?

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Do we have clues as to what android was like before they saw iOS and rehauled it?

There are images all over this thread. Jump back a page or two. It looked a lot closer to Black Berry.

 

[Deku]

I can imagine the movie version of this scene will show him on his death bed grasping for air while he curses Android, hands raised as if grabbing for something and cue sad music.

 

[Aruarian Reflection]

how big do u think the jobs penis was?

i hear a lot of geniuses have small penises to make up for their smartness

ADF knows that answer very intimately

 

[Dina]

It was a troll joke guys.

A bit too obvious tho.

 

[bishoptl]

And people buying Android phones are just like the people that cheered the hanging of Galileo in the Middle Ages.

My incredulity at this statement is off the charts.

 

[The Technomancer]

so you can't think of anything?

I can't think of anything Google has done so far that is blatantly anti-competitive. I still fail to see the theoretical point you're trying to make.

 

[badcrumble]

how big do u think the jobs penis was?

i hear a lot of geniuses have small penises to make up for their smartness

actually, as if his situation wasn't already a classic example of tragic irony, stephen hawking is apparently hung like an elephant

 

[Divvy]

ADF knows that answer very intimately

Which DF is that? Apple or Android?

Whatever answer could lead to some sexy narrative.

 

[ReBurn]

I can't think of anything Google has done so far that is blatantly anti-competitive. I still fail to see the theoretical point you're trying to make.

Normally when I see news talking about Google being anti-competitive it has to do with the ad network, rules for paid links and giving companies better ranking in the "non-sponsored" search results if you pay Google more advertising money.

I don't know much about it, though. I find the topic of Google's ad network to be boring.

 

[Rocksteady33]

regulations being "not allowed to beat your workers" and unnecessary costs being "a decent wage."

Oh please, like this only applies to Apple and Steve Jobs? When a vast majority of your competitors are either in Asia, or outsource to China, what option do you have? It's the way the global economy works. Do you think he thought, yes I want to move manufacturing/production to China so I can abuse workers? The whole Foxconn debacle did not fall on Apple. Should Apple have stopped business with them when the suicide/working conditions dropped? Probably. But again, it's a Foxconn issue. They are their own company, who do plenty of manufacturing for other American companies as well.

I know some people have huge American pride, but in the digital/global/mass market age we live in, I'm beginning to find it ridiculous that Americans continue to criticize US companies for outsourcing labor overseas. It's been going on for years, that's the way the world works, deal with it.

 

[Enco]

So he wanted to take out the competition? Cool.

Competition is great for consumers. Pretty much the only reason we get innovations and upgrades.

 

[kehs]

Do we have clues as to what android was like before they saw iOS and rehauled it?

Notification Center was in tact.

 

[iamblades]

Oh please, like this only applies to Apple and Steve Jobs? When a vast majority of your competitors are either in Asia, or outsource to China, what option do you have? It's the way the global economy works. Do you think he thought, yes I want to move manufacturing/production to China so I can abuse workers? The whole Foxconn debacle did not fall on Apple. Should Apple have stopped business with them when the suicide/working conditions dropped? Probably. But again, it's a Foxconn issue. They are their own company, who do plenty of manufacturing for other American companies as well.

I know some people have huge American pride, but in the digital/global/mass market age we live in, I'm beginning to find it ridiculous that Americans continue to criticize US companies for outsourcing labor overseas. It's been going on for years, that's the way the world works, deal with it.

It's one thing to do what you need to compete economically, it's another thing entirely to lobby the government to make changes in your favor when you are already one of the most profitable companies on the planet.

 

[iamblades]

I've stayed out of the whole Steve Jobs retrospective thing mostly, but I think the whole alternative medicine aspect needs to be a bigger story. It's important for people to be made aware of how dangerous that kind of bullshit fraudulent psuedoscience can be.

 

[Rocksteady33]

It's one thing to do what you need to compete economically, it's another thing entirely to lobby the government to make changes in your favor when you are already one of the most profitable companies on the planet.

Clearly you are not a business person. "Oh well, we're already making enough money, why bother trying to make more than we already are?" You make every effort to make the most money possible (or in terms of public corps, maximize shareholder value). So long as it's done through ethical means then good for Steve Jobs for trying to get every penny he could for his company. He was a genius businessman, pure and simple.

 

[Stinkles]

I've stayed out of the whole Steve Jobs retrospective thing mostly, but I think the whole alternative medicine aspect needs to be a bigger story. It's important for people to be made aware of how dangerous that kind of bullshit fraudulent psuedoscience can be.

Cosigned. I bet there are a lot of shareholders who're pissed too.

 

[iapetus]

So he wanted to take out the competition? Cool.

Competition is great for consumers. Pretty much the only reason we get innovations and upgrades.

Except Jobs wanted to take out the competition through litigation, not competition. Which sucks for consumers.

 

[Momo]

Except Jobs wanted to take out the competition through litigation, not competition. Which sucks for consumers.

Unless you consume lawyers bills

 

[Kapsama]

i love how the claim that android was a copy of ios is accepted as fact by so many. android looks nothing like ios except in the app drawer which was already popular with palm and windows mobile. android is an evolution of those two with apples contributions like capacitive touchscreens and later multitouch being thrown in. oh yeah and visual voicemail, cant forget that ground breaking innovation. everything else apple did with the iphone was taken from palm, winmo, symbian or rim.

hell the entire android concept is a simplified windows. you have your desktop with shortcuts to your programs and general information like date time etc. you have your start button/app drawer that brings up a list of apps and settings + controls. to this android adds widgets on the desktop and a notification system. copied ios my ass.

 

[Chris R]

I might be remembering things incorrectly, but didn't Jobs visit PARC and "borrow" some ideas he observed there to incorporate into his products? And didn't he once say that good artists copy and great artists steal?

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Oh please, like this only applies to Apple and Steve Jobs? When a vast majority of your competitors are either in Asia, or outsource to China, what option do you have? It's the way the global economy works. Do you think he thought, yes I want to move manufacturing/production to China so I can abuse workers? The whole Foxconn debacle did not fall on Apple. Should Apple have stopped business with them when the suicide/working conditions dropped? Probably. But again, it's a Foxconn issue. They are their own company, who do plenty of manufacturing for other American companies as well.

I know some people have huge American pride, but in the digital/global/mass market age we live in, I'm beginning to find it ridiculous that Americans continue to criticize US companies for outsourcing labor overseas. It's been going on for years, that's the way the world works, deal with it.

Also, I find it quite depressing that people are stupid and reactionary enough to jump to conclusions so very easily. Jobs, like any CEO, will have wanted less regulation - however, people are making WILD assumptions about how far he wanted them to go.

It's notable that in spite of these comments he wasn't wooed by the modern, Koch endorsed Republican Party, who exist to dismiss ALL regulation. He wanted to work on Obana's re-election campaign. That speaks volumes.

 

[Socreges]

Hey I know a guy who agrees with this point.

Technosteve, thoughts?

All i can say is Fuck Yes Steve

Indeed.

 

[WARP10CK]

OMG it looks like something from a former era

 

[iamblades]

i love how the claim that android was a copy of ios is accepted as fact by so many. android looks nothing like ios except in the app drawer which was already popular with palm and windows mobile. android is an evolution of those two with apples contributions like capacitive touchscreens and later multitouch being thrown in. oh yeah and visual voicemail, cant forget that ground breaking innovation. everything else apple did with the iphone was taken from palm, winmo, symbian or rim.

hell the entire android concept is a simplified windows. you have your desktop with shortcuts to your programs and general information like date time etc. you have your start button/app drawer that brings up a list of apps and settings + controls. to this android adds widgets on the desktop and a notification system. copied ios my ass.

It's fairly obvious from the fact that Apple hasn't even attempted to litigate against the stock google android, only android reskins that are changed to be more iOS like, and their only truly successful litigation has been the petty trade dress stuff against Samsung(who clearly make the most similar products to Apple, even then it's noticeably different) that has little to do with the actual product, just aesthetics. Stock android is a completely different user experience to iOS.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

I'll just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

When Apple copies, it's innovation
When somebody else copies Apple, it's facepalm time and hating

Seriously.

 

[rezuth]

I might be remembering things incorrectly, but didn't Jobs visit PARC and "borrow" some ideas he observed there to incorporate into his products? And didn't he once say that good artists copy and great artists steal?

Apple granted them the chance to buy stock pre-IPO for exchange of them being let into their research facility.

I'll just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

When Apple copies, it's innovation
When somebody else copies Apple, it's facepalm time and hating

Seriously.

He is talking about ideas in the video though, not actual concepts or IP etc.

 

[Cipherr]

It's a joke...

It fucking better be, I was this close to teeing off on his ass for that stupid post. Jesus Christ.

 

[sonycowboy]

I can't think of anything Google has done so far that is blatantly anti-competitive. I still fail to see the theoretical point you're trying to make.

I don't know about Google's anticompetitiveness, I've got to imagine that they strong arm folks on the search side, but Yahoo and Microsoft's inability to mount any significant attack certainly made Google's life a bit easier. Certainly, the two of them have complained that Google uses it's search power anticompetitively.

However, where Google has gone aground again and again and again is with their coopting or outright copying of other's technology. Whether or not it's actually intellectual property is for courts, but there have been a good number of released emails or word for word copying that shows Google copies first and waits to be sued later...

Books -> Scanning them all into Google without permission
Java -> Davlik / Android
iOS -> Android
Linux -> Android
PayPal -> Google Wallet
Yelp -> Google Places
Campfire -> Google Huddlechat

People will say that Apple did the same thing with the Mac from Xerox Parc, but it's actually not true. They licensed from Xerox, only Xerox execs didn't really know what they had...

Of course, you'll then also have Steve's quote:

"Good artists copy, great artists steal." We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas. -Steve Jobs

But, the actual quote is:

"It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you’re doing. Picasso had a saying: good artists copy, great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas, and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians and poets and artists and zoologists and historians who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world.
—Triumph of the Nerds, PBS, June 1996"

There's a substantial difference when you realize that what he was saying was to bring things outside of the industry, into the industry. Not to ride on the backs of other people's work, but people can read it how they like. That's what I took out of it at least.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

He is talking about ideas in the video though, not actual concepts or IP etc.

How are concepts not ideas?

 

[Cipherr]

But, the actual quote is:

"It comes down to trying to expose yourself to the best things that humans have done and then try to bring those things in to what you’re doing. Picasso had a saying: good artists copy, great artists steal. And we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas, and I think part of what made the Macintosh great was that the people working on it were musicians and poets and artists and zoologists and historians who also happened to be the best computer scientists in the world.
—Triumph of the Nerds, PBS, June 1996"

There's a substantial difference when you realize that what he was saying was to bring things outside of the industry, into the industry. Not to ride on the backs of other people's work, but people can read it how they like. That's what I took out of it at least.

No there isn't. And besides, the things borrowed from Xerox at PARC were not 'Outside the Industry', it was very much in the same industry. When he was speaking about things outside the industry he was referring more to when he spoke about his experience with calligraphy classes leading to inspiration when they worked on the Macs fonts and things of that nature. IMO you are really reaching here.

Knowing the history of the company and even looking at that quote in its full context, it absolutely does not change what it means nor what he says. You have to do a lot of assuming that he didn't say what he 'meant' in order to try and get anything else out of that statement. Jobs has never been known to have trouble articulating himself. He said exactly what he meant, and in light of the comments made in the OP, people sensing a tiny bit of hypocrisy is to be expected, and it is deserved.

Im not sure why people are so compelled to try and rush to his defense here. Its not like this is a shocker to anyone who followed him. I can totally see him saying that, even though its ironic considering the source.

 

[nib95]

Watching The Pirates of Silicon Valley, and it seems like Apple AND Microsoft's history is clouded by either copying or stealing. Apple's entire UI/OS is essentially stolen from Zerox, and Microsoft's derived from Apple lol.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Watching The Pirates of Silicon Valley, and it seems like Apple AND Microsoft's history is clouded by either copying or stealing. Apple's entire UI/OS is essentially stolen from Zerox, and Microsoft's derived from Apple lol.

Xerox got Apple stock for they work though, and Apple had an agreement with Microsoft that Microsoft is allowed to use Apple's work in their products.

 

[sonycowboy]

No there isn't. And besides, the things borrowed from Xerox at PARC were not 'Outside the Industry', it was very much in the same industry. When he was speaking about things outside the industry he was referring more to when he spoke about his experience with calligraphy classes leading to inspiration when they worked on the Macs fonts and things of that nature. IMO you are really reaching here.

Knowing the history of the company and even looking at that quote in its full context, it absolutely does not change what it means nor what he says. You have to do a lot of assuming that he didn't say what he 'meant' in order to try and get anything else out of that statement. Jobs has never been known to have trouble articulating himself. He said exactly what he meant, and in light of the comments made in the OP, people sensing a tiny bit of hypocrisy is to be expected, and it is deserved.

Did you read his quote? It's not at all related to Xerox.

Musician's, poets, artists, & zoologists?

Clearly Xerox is in the industry and it's a widely held belief that Apple "stole" their ideas from Xerox. However, if you've read about the history and understand that Xerox Parc was a think tank that was almost purely research, you'd understand that it's not completely true. And Apple licensed what they used. Not that Apple didn't make out in the whole deal, but it's not so simple as straight thievery. Of course, it never is... That's why we have all of these patent fights...

 

[scorcho]

Xerox got Apple stock for they work though, and Apple had an agreement with Microsoft that Microsoft is allowed to use Apple's work in their products.

wasn't that after Apple failed in litigation and Microsoft agreed to buy non-voting Apple stock and commit to bring Office to the Mac?

that's also the time when Jobs came back and declared the Apple-Microsoft war dead.

 

[Cipherr]

Did you read his quote? It's not at all related to Xerox.

Musician's, poets, artists, & zoologists?

Clearly Xerox is in the industry and it's a widely held belief that Apple "stole" their ideas from Xerox. However, if you've read about the history and understand that Xerox Parc was a think tank that was almost purely research, you'd understand that it's not completely true. And Apple licensed what they used. Not that Apple didn't make out in the whole deal, but it's not so simple as straight thievery. Of course, it never is... That's why we have all of these patent fights...

Interesting, so Assuming Apple does sue Google for 'stealing' iOS for Android, which to my knowledge has not happened, so why this is even being inserted I don't know, but assuming it happened and the courts didn't rule in Apples favor, considering this quote from Steve

"We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it. We've decided to do something about it. We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours."

Your issue here would just dry up and dissipate right? I don't know man, That quote isn't the only thing Steve has said in this regard that reeks of hypocrisy, and it seems your trying to play a "But there's no conflict in those two statements at all" when there very clearly is.

And PARCs ideas weren't just purely research, they had those 'ideas' up, running and demonstrable when Apple made their visit. They didn't stop by and look at slides, they stopped by and used functioning hardware and software. If the Xerox thing wasn't just pure thievery, Id like to hear why you would consider the Android thing pure thievery, and if it is such, why it hasn't found its way to the courts because of it.

 

[KtSlime]

Sure the irony of this doesn't escape Xerox.

Are you implying that Apple stole from Xerox? You know that is false right. Apple paid Xerox for the right to copy anything they saw on a field trip to PARC. Xerox didn't have the foresight to make a consumer product out of their GUI, networking, and programming technologies. Heck, they didn't even have the foresight to hold onto the $1,000,000 pre-IPO stock they received in exchange from Apple - which would now be with a fuck ton of money.

Look up some things before you toss out any more 90’s Win vs. Mac troll memes next time.

Stupid punk-ass kids.

Cipher: are you honestly trying to say that Xerox, back in the late 70’s early 80’s was in the industry of selling Personal Computers to the common Joe? Apple and Xerox were in different industries, plus Xerox got paid. Xerox would have likely never built a PC we can buy, for fucks sake, they still haven't. Direct me to the nearest Alto licesensed retailer if I am wrong.

 

[krzy123]

Linux -> Android

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/android-linux-fud-debunked/8549

 

[Previous]

Man all this bickering over one news story about a short excerpt, can't wait for the entire book to be released.

 

[BocoDragon]

Man all this bickering over one news story about a short excerpt, can't wait for the entire book to be released.

The book's marketing is working, then.

 

[sangreal]

Clearly Xerox is in the industry and it's a widely held belief that Apple "stole" their ideas from Xerox. However, if you've read about the history and understand that Xerox Parc was a think tank that was almost purely research, you'd understand that it's not completely true.

Irrelevant that they were "almost" purely research, because the Xerox Star (Alto) which inspired Apple was a commercialized.

And Apple licensed what they used.

No they didn't. They paid for the visit. Xerox sued Apple for appropriating the ideas.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

what exactly does he felt android stole from apple the UI ...i mean its just some icons and very common navigation conventions...back, menu, home... he ever elaborate ?

 

[Deleted member 22576]

• Notification pane
• Multiple desktops
• Dock for frequently used apps
• The 4 hardware menu buttons

To me, this looks EXACTLY like what you'd expect a primitive version of the Android we got to look like. The only thing missing is the app drawer. Which who knows anything about that version of Android anyway? I have no doubts that design cues were taken from Apple, but that is EXACTLY Android.

You can very plainly see the roots of Android in that photo. The core features that went on to define the fundamentals of Android over the last few years are absolutely present. Google doesn't design hardware, it looks like they just crammed it on some off the shelf device.