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[jmdajr]

with all the leaks why even get the book....

 

[Massa]

I love the I'm being served a Galaxy S2 ad on this thread.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[The Faceless Master]

So you're saying it's okay to steal up to a certain percentage of the UI? What percentage exactly?

whatever % Apple steals is the maximum allowed.

 

[rezuth]

I thought you were a little more serious, you're right it's good to lighten the mood.
Google has not made a secret that they bought Android, so yeah they were bound to know that since Apple wasn't using Android they were bound to be competitors at some point.

And I fail to see the love of competition from Jobs, if they loved competition THAT much they would have allowed people to buy their computers were they want and get the OS from them.

I think we view the word competition differently or at least apply it differently. You know regarding the whole Android debacle, we don't know what was said regarding it. For all we know Schmidt could have come clean to Jobs and told him about the plans or he could have lied about it. There is no telling, what we can say for sure however. Is that Android at one point became a totally different product that it originally set out to be. This was heavily influenced by the iPhone. I would say it was for the greater good of the consumers but I don't doubt that Jobs was really pissed about it.

 

[andycapps]

When did I say it didn't make sense?

I'm saying that to change your approach of an in-development product makes sense to me if something gets released that sees immediate success. Nothing else. Just that it makes sense to not try to be stubborn and stick to a model that doesn't work. Otherwise you end up where RIM is.

Is this a happy or bad LOL? This thread is so tense I can't tell. :[

It was happy. I thought you were trolling regarding the mouse cursor showing up so I was just commenting on your success with the troll.

 

[Khal_B]

I love the I'm being served a Galaxy S2 ad on this thread.

Anyway, carry on.

LOL, same. Too bad I already own one. Aww yeah. Man Jobs sounded really angry when he said that stuff. Someone should have given him an ice cream sandwich to make him chill out.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I doubt it. Making it as identical as possible wouldn't have included the massive improvements that things like widgets brought. However much Android owes to iOS (and it does owe a lot to it), it also brings a lot of its own stuff to the table.

I never claimed it didn't. What I'm saying is that Android, in its current incarnation, owes almost everything to iOS as evidenced by where it was before iOS was out. For whatever more it brought to the table, it owes it to the direction that Apple forced them to go with it.

I'm saying that to change your approach of an in-development product makes sense to me if something gets released that sees immediate success. Nothing else. Just that it makes sense to not try to be stubborn and stick to a model that doesn't work. Otherwise you end up where RIM is.

Ok? You're making a counter-point to nothing I ever said.

 

[water_wendi]

So does all this make Google a great artist?

 

[JCX]

iOS and WP7 are both equally fluid. Both operate at a smooth 60 fps and deliver very responsive controls. I also greatly respect both of them as they each followed their own vision and delivered something new. WP7 is a triumph, as far as I'm concerned, as it did NOT attempt to copy the iOS model. It's quite unique and well designed.

Android, however, has always had that homebrew Linux feel to me. It's not polished at all and even the fastest hardware delivers an inconsistent experience. Definitely not a fan. Something like Android is well suited to a PC environment, but for a mobile phone I don't much care for it.

I haven't used an iOS device regularly since my iPod touch broke, but it doesn't come close to how smooth WP7 feels. I'm actually getting bored with iOS' wall of apps design. Allowing groups helps, but it's still mostly icons.

The biggest issue with Android is the different versions. The version of Android after ICS will be out before all android phones have ICS. With iOS and WP7, the hardware is the same or smiliar, so there is a more coherent experience across devices. For sometimjes better and sometimes worse, the android experience depends on which device you're using it on. My little brother didn't like his first low-end android phone, but when he got an EVO, he liked android more.

I've been toying with the iOS and WP7 launchers recently. I stopped with iOS after a few hours because of how restricted I felt, but I think I'll stay with the WP7 one because it feels so smooth.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

It was happy. I thought you were trolling regarding the mouse cursor showing up so I was just commenting on your success with the troll.

Oh ok, well, I wasn't trying to troll. Mael said he doesn't get a homebrew linux feel from Android. And I kinda do because occasionally it flashes a grey screen with a mouse cursor while it loads an app.. Or at least it did.

 

[Mael]

I think we view the word competition differently or at least apply it differently. You know regarding the whole Android debacle, we don't know what was said regarding it. For all we know Schmidt could have come clean to Jobs and told him about the plans or he could have lied about it. There is no telling, what we can say for sure however. Is that Android at one point became a totally different product that it originally set out to be. This was heavily influenced by the iPhone. I would say it was for the greater good of the consumers but I don't doubt that Jobs was really pissed about it.

I think we agree actually.
Steve Jobs could have every right to be pissed off by Android getting inspiration from his product.
If he didn't patent anything OR is not coverable by copyright he SOL though.
I don't actually care that he was pissed or not or that he wanted the death of Schmidt or anyone.
What I actually care is that he is painted as the free market lover he never was, like most known CEO he was a corporatist first and foremost.
He has his best interest at heart and I have mine as a consumer.
I do know however that his best interest doesn't line up with mine as a consumer most of the time.

I mean I love Ikea, and I really love their furniture but that doesn't mean I can't see when they're being dicks either.

In the case of Android, Schmidt clearly outsmarted Jobs if he managed to make Jobs oblivious of the obvious conflict of interest until it was too late.

Oh ok, well, I wasn't trying to troll. Mael said he doesn't get a homebrew linux feel from Android. And I kinda do because occasionally it flashes a grey screen with a mouse cursor while it loads an app.. Or at least it did.

My mouth is full of your words now.
I said that the hombrew unstable feeling is something you get out of using Windows not Linux.
I'm not using Android and I don't care that much for it, I'm waiting for Free(as in owned by Illiad) to unload their massive offer on mobile plans to change the mobile and get what most likely will be a WP7 phone.

 

[Sqorgar]

http://library.thinkquest.org/C0130462/main-1973_the-xerox.htm

In all fairness, Apple didn't just copy the Xerox GUI. They improved it considerably - the Finder, drag and drop, pull-down menus, and the big one, windows that knew when to redrawn themselves and could draw when partially obscured in the background (I guess the PARC windowing system would require you to make a window active, then click on it to redraw).

There is a fine line between copying and evolution, but I think the Macintosh was enough of an improvement that claims of theft are a bit extreme. I don't really know enough about Android to say one way or another.

But Google and Apple used to be friends - even having Google board members during the creation of the iPhone. This might be less about what Android copied and more about the betrayal of Google secretly stealing ideas and personnel while buddying up to Apple.

 

[andycapps]

Ok? You're making a counter-point to nothing I ever said.

I don't really give a shit, so if you're not getting my point then just move on I guess.

Oh ok, well, I wasn't trying to troll. Mael said he doesn't get a homebrew linux feel from Android. And I kinda do because occasionally it flashes a grey screen with a mouse cursor while it loads an app.. Or at least it did.

Oh okay.. I thought you were, so my bad. I've never seen this though. Weird.

 

[mckmas8808]

LOL, same. Too bad I already own one. Aww yeah. Man Jobs sounded really angry when he said that stuff. Someone should have given him an ice cream sandwich to make him chill out.

+1

 

[Flachmatuch]

What Bill is doing with his money now is something special and probably better than anyone on this board will ever do.

Ugh. No. Fuck, no. No. He's working on some of the worst imaginable shit, from geoengineering to education reform to population control technologies. Really fucked up. Never mind how he got the money to do that, the way the BMGF does things is probably worse than the entire history of Microsoft.

I mean, I don't like Jobs. He got too much credit for mostly superficial crap, while real innovators are mostly unknown, but hey, that's the way it goes, I can accept that. But Bill is just so much worse.

 

[dark10x]

I haven't used an iOS device regularly since my iPod touch broke, but it doesn't come close to how smooth WP7 feels. I'm actually getting bored with iOS' wall of apps design. Allowing groups helps, but it's still mostly icons.

The biggest issue with Android is the different versions. The version of Android after ICS will be out before all android phones have ICS. With iOS and WP7, the hardware is the same or smiliar, so there is a more coherent experience across devices. For sometimjes better and sometimes worse, the android experience depends on which device you're using it on. My little brother didn't like his first low-end android phone, but when he got an EVO, he liked android more.

I've been toying with the iOS and WP7 launchers recently. I stopped with iOS after a few hours because of how restricted I felt, but I think I'll stay with the WP7 one because it feels so smooth.

If you haven't used it since your iPod Touch broke, how can you compare?

On my 4s (and my previous 4), everything moves at a perfect 60 fps. No hitching, dropping, or slowdown anywhere. The interface is completely smooth just like WP7. They are both totally perfect in that regard.

Android doesn't even come close on the fastest phones. Some screens moves smoothly, but it still feels unpolished.

 

[iapetus]

I never claimed it didn't. What I'm saying is that Android, in its current incarnation, owes almost everything to iOS as evidenced by where it was before iOS was out. For whatever more it brought to the table, it owes it to the direction that Apple forced them to go with it.

So... competition where multiple companies attempt to improve on the offerings of the others is good for innovation and driving product quality up? Three cheers for the ideas Apple have taken from elsewhere and improved, three cheers for the ideas Google have taken from elsewhere and improved, likewise Microsoft and anyone else who wants to get involved.

 

[kehs]

Ugh. No. Fuck, no. No. He's working on some of the worst imaginable shit, from geoengineering to education reform to population control technologies. Really fucked up. Never mind how he got the money to do that, the way the BMGF does things is probably worse than the entire history of Microsoft.

I mean, I don't like Jobs. He got too much credit for mostly superficial crap, while real innovators are mostly unknown, but hey, that's the way it goes, I can accept that. But Bill is just so much worse.

The motherfucker is eradicating polio.


Fucking Polio.


Po' Leo.

 

[Divvy]

Ugh. No. Fuck, no. No. He's working on some of the worst imaginable shit, from geoengineering to education reform to population control technologies. Really fucked up. Never mind how he got the money to do that, the way the BMGF does things is probably worse than the entire history of Microsoft.

I mean, I don't like Jobs. He got too much credit for mostly superficial crap, while real innovators are mostly unknown, but hey, that's the way it goes, I can accept that. But Bill is just so much worse.

What. None of those things you've mentioned are inherently bad in any way.

 

[StuKen]

I never claimed it didn't. What I'm saying is that Android, in its current incarnation, owes almost everything to iOS as evidenced by where it was before iOS was out.

Psion epoc, rows and columns of icons on a mobile device! Get the litigation shoes on boys.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

I don't really give a shit, so if you're not getting my point then just move on I guess.

All right? Good talk then?

 

[Jenga]

Yes, because a tiny feature of an OS is equal to the hardware design and entire user interface.




You mean the suicides?


Surely the people at Apple, halfway around the world, were responsible for that stuff. Not the cultural influences on those people who killed themselves, or bad family lives, or poor personal choices that led them down a bad path, or harsh bosses within certain departments, or living under a tyrannical government.

Yup, the blame goes to Apple, because surely someone is to blame. Surely.

hey if steve jobs doesn't cut god slack why should we cut slack for him?

the difference is, steve jobs is real

and did nothing about it

 

[Kinitari]

I never claimed it didn't. What I'm saying is that Android, in its current incarnation, owes almost everything to iOS as evidenced by where it was before iOS was out. For whatever more it brought to the table, it owes it to the direction that Apple forced them to go with it.

I think the issue is, you seem to be making this point like it's some sort of negative on Google's business practices, or something that should be particularly noteworthy, separate from all other instances where similar things have happened in the tech industry (read; every other instance of anything ever happening in the tech industry).

It may just sound like that because we are in a thread speaking about this particular instance, however.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Someone should ask Larry Ellison what he thinks of Android and how original it is.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

My mouth is full of your words now.
I said that the hombrew unstable feeling is something you get out of using Windows not Linux.
I'm not using Android and I don't care that much for it, I'm waiting for Free(as in owned by Illiad) to unload their massive offer on mobile plans to change the mobile and get what most likely will be a WP7 phone.

Oh cool, yeah yeah. I was more responding in general that there actually is (now was, I guess) a lot of janky "homebrew" feeling stuff in Android. I kinda just used your post as a catalyst to make that point. I didn't mean to warp your words around.

 

[Suairyu]

Learning more about Steve Jobs is tough.

On the one hand, you get to truly appreciate his impact on modern life and how we could quite possibly be in a worse place without his influence on computing technology. A visionary.

On the other hand, you also learn he was a hypocritical asshole with occassional dips into scumbag territory.

You just end up not knowing how to feel about the man.

 

[Jenga]

Learning more about Steve Jobs is tough.

On the one hand, you get to truly appreciate his impact on modern life and how we could quite possibly be in a worse place without his influence on computing technology. A visionary.

On the other hand, you also learn he was a hypocritical asshole with occassional dips into scumbag territory.

You just end up not knowing how to feel about the man.

it's pretty easy

first you hear what an innovative god man he is from apple fans

then you hear what a satan he is from everybody else

then you find he is somewhere in between, leaning towards the selfish asshole side

 

[andycapps]

All right? Good talk then?

Definitely. Will do again.

 

[7Th]

it's pretty easy

first you hear what an innovative god man he is from apple fans

then you hear what a satan he is from everybody else

then you find he is somewhere in between, leaning towards the selfish asshole side

tl;dr version: He was a human, just like you and me.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I love the I'm being served a Galaxy S2 ad on this thread.

Anyway, carry on.

the T-Mobile one unfortunately... or at least that's what i'm getting...

 

[Kinitari]

Learning more about Steve Jobs is tough.

On the one hand, you get to truly appreciate his impact on modern life and how we could quite possibly be in a worse place without his influence on computing technology. A visionary.

On the other hand, you also learn he was a hypocritical asshole with occassional dips into scumbag territory.

You just end up not knowing how to feel about the man.

He's a man like anyone else. He had a strong impact quite a few facets of the tech industry, and the cgi film industry, but that's basically where his positives end. That's not to diminish his accomplishments, but really just grounding it a bit - the way some people talk about it... you'd think he'd put together every iPad by hand and distributed them on foot. He wasn't much of a philanthropist, and he was pretty cold blooded and ruthless about business, he also sounds a bit like republican/libertarian, which probably doesn't sit too well for a lot of people. But in the end, when you don't build him up in your head as anything more than a regular guy, hearing these things don't particularly surprise you or make you uncomfortable.

 

[Suairyu]

tl;dr version: He was a human, just like you and me.

No, he was quite a bit more of a twat than you and me. A real piece of work.

 

[segasonic]

Google are a parasite who have never had an original idea.

u so mad

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Jobs on Obama,

You’re headed for a one-term presidency,” he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where “regulations and unnecessary costs” make it difficult for them. Jobs also criticized America’s education system, saying it was “crippled by union work rules,” noted Isaacson. “Until the teachers’ unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform.” Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year.

Hm. A CEO who wants to destroy regulations and unions. I am shocked. But seriously, that´s a rotten things for Jobs to say. Damn, Jobs has no empathy to the working class, or environment.

 

[andycapps]

Hm. A CEO who wants to destroy regulations and unions. I am shocked. But seriously, that´s a rotten things for Jobs to say. Damn, Jobs has no empathy to the working class, or environment.

Actually a lot of that makes me sound more sympathetic to him. Being able to hire and fire sounds like the private sector and makes sense. Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread..

 

[JCX]

If you haven't used it since your iPod Touch broke, how can you compare?

On my 4s (and my previous 4), everything moves at a perfect 60 fps. No hitching, dropping, or slowdown anywhere. The interface is completely smooth just like WP7. They are both totally perfect in that regard.

Android doesn't even come close on the fastest phones. Some screens moves smoothly, but it still feels unpolished.

I have used my mom iPad causually for the past few months, with minor interactions with friends' iPhone 4. I'm not saying iOS isn't smooth, just that it doesn't feel like it's doing as much as WP7. I stiopped using my touch because it started force closing a lot of the apps, then eventually stopped working altogether.

I think you're mistaking smooth for cohenrency. iOS and WP7 have very clear, coherent visions for how the user is supposed to interact with them. Android is anarchy in comparison.

 

[sangreal]

Android behaves and works different than iOS, it looks and is designed different than iOS, it's built different than iOS.
Sure, there are some similarities, especially when it comes to the applications menu, but... that's kinda it.

That wall-of-apps applications menu is the same as what BB (and palm?) had at the time so I would be surprised if it wasn't in the original android as well

 

[lastendconductor]

What did you expect? the man reinvented modern human life completely through his products and then these assholes at Google (who have done nothing original or good for the industry or us, they just got lucky with their search engine) take all the credit and even outsell Apple superior devices without doing anything, just plain theft. He did all the work from scratch with his vision but others are raking in the dough. They're not better than some chinese ripoff company... wait, they actually partner with chinese ripoff companies for their "grand theft" (really fitting expresion here). I would be mad too.
At least we can be grateful we were blessed during our lifetimes with his genius and inventions. So what if he was aggressive? he was forced to, he had to defend himself against all these multimillion dollar companies that constantly stole stuff (just look at Windows...) from him, with old friends backstabbing him at every corner. I will never buy an non Apple smartphone or computer, I think whoever does it is sending a clear message, that he supports dumb copying and stagnation in the industry. It's sad that some people take advantage of one of the greatest minds in history to make an easy buck. I can't wait for Google and all its mediocrity to sink into the abyss of obsolescence when the loyals that remain at Apple fully realize Steve's vision (I'm sure he has left explicit instructions, it's going to be huge).
Long story short; he was a giant amongst men, he had the right to talk like one. And people buying Android phones are just like the people that cheered the hanging of Galileo in the Middle Ages.

 

[rezuth]

Hm. A CEO who wants to destroy regulations and unions. I am shocked. But seriously, that´s a rotten things for Jobs to say. Damn, Jobs has no empathy to the working class, or environment.

I agree about the school part, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Littleberu]

What did you expect? the man reinvented modern human life completely through his products and then these assholes at Google (who have done nothing original or good for the industry or us, they just got lucky with their search engine) take all the credit and even outsell Apple superior devices without doing anything, just plain theft. He did all the work from scratch with his vision but others are raking in the dough. They're not better than some chinese ripoff company... wait, they actually partner with chinese ripoff companies for their "grand theft" (really fitting expresion here). I would be mad too.
At least we can be grateful we were blessed during our lifetimes with his genius and inventions. So what if he was aggressive? he was forced to, he had to defend himself against all these multimillion dollar companies that constantly stole stuff (just look at Windows...) from him, with old friends backstabbing him at every corner. I will never buy an non Apple smartphone or computer, I think whoever does it is sending a clear message, that he supports dumb copying and stagnation in the industry. It's sad that some people take advantage of one of the greatest minds in history to make an easy buck. I can't wait for Google and all its mediocrity to sink into the abyss of obsolescence when the loyals that remain at Apple fully realize Steve's vision (I'm sure he has left explicit instructions, it's going to be huge).
Long story short; he was a giant amongst men, he had the right to talk like one. And people buying Android phones are just like the people that cheered the hanging of Galileo in the Middle Ages.

Wow.

Is that the new "I'm an expert!" ?

 

[sangreal]

Wow.

It's a joke...

 

[scorcho]

wow. someone's mad.

 

[Barbacoatl]

DKnight's post begs for a dramatic reading.

 

[andycapps]

Wow.

Is that the new "I'm an expert!" ?

I think it may be the new, "tried shrooms for the first time" post.

 

[CrazyDude]

What did you expect? the man reinvented modern human life completely through his products and then these assholes at Google (who have done nothing original or good for the industry or us, they just got lucky with their search engine) take all the credit and even outsell Apple superior devices without doing anything, just plain theft. He did all the work from scratch with his vision but others are raking in the dough. They're not better than some chinese ripoff company... wait, they actually partner with chinese ripoff companies for their "grand theft" (really fitting expresion here). I would be mad too.
At least we can be grateful we were blessed during our lifetimes with his genius and inventions. So what if he was aggressive? he was forced to, he had to defend himself against all these multimillion dollar companies that constantly stole stuff (just look at Windows...) from him, with old friends backstabbing him at every corner. I will never buy an non Apple smartphone or computer, I think whoever does it is sending a clear message, that he supports dumb copying and stagnation in the industry. It's sad that some people take advantage of one of the greatest minds in history to make an easy buck. I can't wait for Google and all its mediocrity to sink into the abyss of obsolescence when the loyals that remain at Apple fully realize Steve's vision (I'm sure he has left explicit instructions, it's going to be huge).
Long story short; he was a giant amongst men, he had the right to talk like one. And people buying Android phones are just like the people that cheered the hanging of Galileo in the Middle Ages.

All I can do is laugh at this.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

BUYING GOOGLE PRODUCTS IS LIKE CHEERING ON THE EXECUTION OF GALILEO

You heard it here first

 

[nib95]

What did you expect? the man reinvented modern human life completely through his products and then these assholes at Google (who have done nothing original or good for the industry or us, they just got lucky with their search engine) take all the credit and even outsell Apple superior devices without doing anything, just plain theft. He did all the work from scratch with his vision but others are raking in the dough. They're not better than some chinese ripoff company... wait, they actually partner with chinese ripoff companies for their "grand theft" (really fitting expresion here). I would be mad too.
At least we can be grateful we were blessed during our lifetimes with his genius and inventions. So what if he was aggressive? he was forced to, he had to defend himself against all these multimillion dollar companies that constantly stole stuff (just look at Windows...) from him, with old friends backstabbing him at every corner. I will never buy an non Apple smartphone or computer, I think whoever does it is sending a clear message, that he supports dumb copying and stagnation in the industry. It's sad that some people take advantage of one of the greatest minds in history to make an easy buck. I can't wait for Google and all its mediocrity to sink into the abyss of obsolescence when the loyals that remain at Apple fully realize Steve's vision (I'm sure he has left explicit instructions, it's going to be huge).
Long story short; he was a giant amongst men, he had the right to talk like one. And people buying Android phones are just like the people that cheered the hanging of Galileo in the Middle Ages.

Bwahahahaha!

 

[Divvy]

It was a troll joke guys.

 

[Kinitari]

It's a joke...

I'm not sure... I could be wrong, but isn't DK a pretty wellknown apple-guy? I hope this is satire.

 

[CrazyDude]

It was a troll joke guys.

That's why I'm laughing.