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Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!

crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Zefah said:
Whatever you want to call it, this phenomenon of rapid low-volume sell off that quickly drops the trading price early in the day only to see the stock recover and sometimes even exceed the previous day's closing price happened time and time again with GME. That doesn't mean the same thing will happen with AMC, but to call him delusional over speculating about it? Seems dumb.
Click to expand...

It's called people selling.

There was news about the offering, which created a sell off.

You people blame everything on hedge funds. It's sad.
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
Good god i feel like i'm on Wall Street Bets

I'll be back when this meme phase has died down

Just remember to look both ways and cross at the green light and don't be a ricardo running into the traffic
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
crazepharmacist said:
Even sadder.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not. I made a decent amount of money off GME. Made some off of AMC, too.

You are someone who prefers the relative safety of mutual funds. That's fine, too, but you don't need to insult people for gambling on riskier bets than you can stomach or act like you have superior knowledge on how things are going to go for any individual stock.

crazepharmacist said:
It's called people selling.

There was news about the offering, which created a sell off.

You people blame everything on hedge funds. It's sad.
Click to expand...

"You people." I'm not even blaming the hedge funds about anything. I got out of AMC before it really blew up. I'm just saying it's a possibility that it could come back up and go even higher. You never know.

You got scared and sold GME for a $200 profit back in February because it was "over" in your mind. You obviously don't know what you're talking about it when it comes to these meme stocks, so stop preaching.
 
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crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Zefah said:
Maybe, maybe not. I made a decent amount of money off GME. Made some off of AMC, too.

You are someone who prefers the relative safety of mutual funds. That's fine, too, but you don't need to insult people for gambling on riskier bets than you can stomach or act like you have superior knowledge on how things are going to go for any individual stock.
Click to expand...

No problem on gambling on speculative stocks. We all do it from time to time. Hopefully not with more than 5-10% of one's portfolio though.

Only problem I have is blaming every meme stock sell off on the big bad manipulative hedge funds.

The stock is incredibly overvalued and there was bad news in premarket. The stock sold off at open. It wasn't a "short ladder attack". Whatever that is.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
ricardo_sousa11 said:
Please dont go running towards traffic.

this was whats called SL phising, and it worked.
Click to expand...

So what do you suggest? To trade a stock that has no business being at it's current levels without a stop loss? Why exactly should everyone throw caution to the wind?
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
crazepharmacist said:
The stock is incredibly overvalued and there was bad news in premarket. The stock sold off at open. It wasn't a "short ladder attack". Whatever that is.
Click to expand...

It's already been explained to you what it is, but if that's not good enough, you can look it up further. Whether what happened this morning is a short ladder attack or not is another question.
 
ricardo_sousa11

ricardo_sousa11

Member
GHG said:
So what do you suggest? To trade a stock that has no business being at it's current levels without a stop loss? Why exactly should everyone throw caution to the wind?
Click to expand...
If you are investing in a possible SS, its dumb to use stoplosses, thats how u get fished out.

As I said, if you’re that sure just short it. You’re talking with no skin in the game, just pride and prejudice, thats the sad part, you all want to see it fall just to say ‘i told u so’, even if comes from 50 to 25 or 500 to 200.

it seems you want me to keep going in circles until the explanation fits your desire. It doesnt, you don’t understand, stop just saying bullshit because you dont get it.
 
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crazepharmacist

crazepharmacist

Member
Zefah said:
It's already been explained to you what it is, but if that's not good enough, you can look it up further. Whether what happened this morning is a short ladder attack or not is another question.
Click to expand...

I've looked it up. I can't find anything on it from before January 2021 when the GME short squeeze first happened. All I can find on it is from after GME had already spiked or was in the process of shooting up and it's mostly from Reddit, where the term originated from.

Is there an Investopedia article on it? I can't find one.
 
ricardo_sousa11

ricardo_sousa11

Member
crazepharmacist said:
I've looked it up. I can't find anything on it from before January 2021 when the GME short squeeze first happened. All I can find on it is from after GME had already spiked or was in the process of shooting up and it's mostly from Reddit, where the term originated from.

Is there an Investopedia article on it? I can't find one.
Click to expand...
Why do you keep comparing it to gme? Both are in potential squeeze territory, thats the o ly similarity.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
ricardo_sousa11 said:
If you are investing in a possible SS, its dumb to use stoplosses, thats how u get fished out.

As I said, if you’re that sure just short it. You’re talking with no skin in the game, just pride and prejudice, thats the sad part, you all want to see it fall just to say ‘i told u so’, even if comes from 50 to 25 or 500 to 200.

it seems you want me to keep going in circles until the explanation fits your desire. It doesnt, you don’t understand, stop just saying bullshit because you dont get it.
Click to expand...

This is sad. Just because people aren't getting involved in this movement it doesn't mean people cannot have an opinion.

People use stop losses as "profit takers" in a lot of situations, especially in ones like this where the price has run up so dramatically. That ensures they take profit (you know, the reason why we all do this) in case the price has a sharp drop.

People participating in a short squeeze can do what they want, there are no rules. The reason for participation is to make money, how they do so is irrelevant. Loads of people have even been day trading this on the way up, taking profits every single day while not contributing one bit to the "squeeze" theory. Did you also model all of that in when you were coming up with your bull thesis on how high AMC can go?

You keep on saying other people "don't understand" but you've done nothing to convince anyone of why it should continue to go higher than it has gone. You even went as far to say that you don't want to "give away" your DD to people here which is ridiculous considering the dynamics of the stock market.

I'm not here to tell you "I told you" so, all I've suggested is that you take profits on multiple occasions which is important considering you are all in on this thing.
 
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GHG

GHG

Member
Zefah said:
It's already been explained to you what it is, but if that's not good enough, you can look it up further. Whether what happened this morning is a short ladder attack or not is another question.
Click to expand...

Look at the volume:

MvbvDop.png


Tells you everything you need to know. Those are 1 minute candles BTW, so at one point of the sell off over 250k shares were sold (in one minute).
 
Raven117

Raven117

Member
down 2 orth said:
I have faith. Meme stocks drew my attention to practical investing, maybe some others will join me when the craze is over.
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Hope so! If it brings more people to the market, then I'm all for it. Hell, it is a free market, people can freely yolo into AMC all they want. My only hope is that folks understand the risk involved, hopefully get out with a profit, and look into other types of investing.
 
M

MvCSpiderman

Banned
Neogaf has a gamespot thread I see.

Reading recent posts I feel like new laws are coming. While the market has risks involved it literally shouldn't be an actual casino which it has been turned into.

The worst part is it's a casino that has people manipulating the market and using free internet speech as a shield to act like they shouldn't be punished for it. That's dangerous because that gives incentive to try and control the web.
 
Ellery

Ellery

Member
MvCSpiderman said:
Neogaf has a gamespot thread I see.

Reading recent posts I feel like new laws are coming. While the market has risks involved it literally shouldn't be an actual casino which it has been turned into.

The worst part is it's a casino that has people manipulating the market and using free internet speech as a shield to act like they shouldn't be punished for it. That's dangerous because that gives incentive to try and control the web.
Click to expand...

Please elaborate on the bolded parts. I am curious (my post is not meant as any funny remark, just honest curiosity)
 
M

MvCSpiderman

Banned
Ellery said:
Please elaborate on the bolded parts. I am curious (my post is not meant as any funny remark, just honest curiosity)
Click to expand...
A lot of people and small companies are saying or doing things to manipulate the market, but because they are on internet social platforms people think it shouldn't be taken seriously, and caught offenders not punished for it.

With so many doing it the only practical solution to fix it is to force a new law for the markets so it's harder for people to access the market. Otherwise the only other solution would be to regulate parts of the internet and social media platforms, which could lead to control over other areas of the internet. Worst case.
 
Ellery

Ellery

Member
MvCSpiderman said:
A lot of people and small companies are saying or doing things to manipulate the market, but because they are on internet social platforms people think it shouldn't be taken seriously, and caught offenders not punished for it.

With so many doing it the only practical solution to fix it is to force a new law for the markets so it's harder for people to access the market. Otherwise the only other solution would be to regulate parts of the internet and social media platforms, which could lead to control over other areas of the internet. Worst case.
Click to expand...

That seems like an extreme approach imho. To add to my previous post could you show some examples of "people" and "small companies" ?

I know that Elon Musk got into trouble with Tesla for tweeting and had to pay a 15$m fine. What other examples are out there?
 
Raven117

Raven117

Member
MvCSpiderman said:
A lot of people and small companies are saying or doing things to manipulate the market, but because they are on internet social platforms people think it shouldn't be taken seriously, and caught offenders not punished for it.

With so many doing it the only practical solution to fix it is to force a new law for the markets so it's harder for people to access the market. Otherwise the only other solution would be to regulate parts of the internet and social media platforms, which could lead to control over other areas of the internet. Worst case.
Click to expand...
I think we need to be careful about this. Hedge fund(y) types hop on TV all the time and try and do the same thing. All those "power lunches" and "discussion groups" held at the Harvard Club in New York provides the same thing that Reddit does.

To pick off the Reddit types, but not the "lunches" is simply the powerful concentrating power at their end and not having to account for normal people banding together.
 
T

Taxexemption

Member
MvCSpiderman said:
A lot of people and small companies are saying or doing things to manipulate the market, but because they are on internet social platforms people think it shouldn't be taken seriously, and caught offenders not punished for it.

With so many doing it the only practical solution to fix it is to force a new law for the markets so it's harder for people to access the market. Otherwise the only other solution would be to regulate parts of the internet and social media platforms, which could lead to control over other areas of the internet. Worst case.
Click to expand...

In the case of GME and AMC, it has more to do with people looking at short selling of stock, and lack of transparency. You shouldn't be able to short a large portion of the total stock that is being traded, that seems like manipulation to me. Many people that are still buying and holding GME do so, because they believe there is still a large short position out there, and that those short will be forced to buy a large portion of all of the stock being floated at once. This may or may not be the case, but lack of transparency creates a situation where if these people are right, they are pretty much guaranteed to make a big profit.


In the case of other "meme stocks," it pretty much comes down to the fact that a lot of people are investing in companies based on criteria other than fundamentals. I don't think you can really stop that without more or less restricting people's ability to trade in general. I don't really see there being a good case for telling people "Yeah, we are restricting your ability to buy publicly traded companies."


As to restricting peoples speech on the internet, what do you think we should be able to restrict?

"We have a new process, and we believe this will lead to future profitability,"

"We have X, and we think that's good,"

What do you think is happening that is crossing the line?
 
GHG

GHG

Member
MvCSpiderman said:
A lot of people and small companies are saying or doing things to manipulate the market, but because they are on internet social platforms people think it shouldn't be taken seriously, and caught offenders not punished for it.

With so many doing it the only practical solution to fix it is to force a new law for the markets so it's harder for people to access the market. Otherwise the only other solution would be to regulate parts of the internet and social media platforms, which could lead to control over other areas of the internet. Worst case.
Click to expand...

This goes both ways and has done since the beginning of investing.

Should we ban TV, radio and the press as well while we are at it?
 
CloudNull

CloudNull

Banned
Taxexemption said:
In the case of GME and AMC, it has more to do with people looking at short selling of stock, and lack of transparency. You shouldn't be able to short a large portion of the total stock that is being traded, that seems like manipulation to me. Many people that are still buying and holding GME do so, because they believe there is still a large short position out there, and that those short will be forced to buy a large portion of all of the stock being floated at once. This may or may not be the case, but lack of transparency creates a situation where if these people are right, they are pretty much guaranteed to make a big profit.
Click to expand...
Personally I think Shorts should not be allowed. It is the only reason I mess with these meme stocks. Its more about sending a message and I wont stop jumping on highly shorted stocks until they stop doing it. I will still do my value investing for companies that I truly believe in but if I can hurt hedge funds then I will do my damn best.
 
Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
CloudNull said:
Personally I think Shorts should not be allowed. It is the only reason I mess with these meme stocks. Its more about sending a message and I wont stop jumping on highly shorted stocks until they stop doing it. I will still do my value investing for companies that I truly believe in but if I can hurt hedge funds then I will do my damn best.
Click to expand...

What? No. Unless you want out of control bubbles that's a bad idea
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
Zefah said:
People would spend their money investing in companies they think will grow and increase their profits?
Click to expand...

We already do that

And what about failing companies or companies that have stagnated?

You can't make money betting against them, prices are going to arbitarily inflate

Shorting is no less ethical than longing. They're just tools that regulate the market.
 
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T

Taxexemption

Member
Ass of Can Whooping said:
What do you think would happen if you couldn't make money when a stock goes down?
Click to expand...

You can still buy options that pay off if the company goes below a particular price. I think half the point of shorting is that by selling the stock itself you create an illusion that there is a selloff, in hopes that you can get more people to sell off their shares and create a spiral. I've bought put options on companies where I thought the price would go down, and sometimes I made money.
 
CloudNull

CloudNull

Banned
Ass of Can Whooping said:
What do you think would happen if you couldn't make money when a stock goes down?
Click to expand...
Focus on companies that have value or companies in which their mission aligns with how I want the world to evolve. For example I invest in Tesla even though they are overvalued currently because I believe in their mission and the future business model.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Taxexemption said:
You can still buy options that pay off if the company goes below a particular price. I think half the point of shorting is that by selling the stock itself you create an illusion that there is a selloff, in hopes that you can get more people to sell off their shares and create a spiral. I've bought put options on companies where I thought the price would go down, and sometimes I made money.
Click to expand...

But this is the crux of the matter right? If you own a stock and it goes down then your first duty is to determine why. If nothing has changed then there's no need to panic and an easy case can be made for you to buy more. If you are selling just because other people are selling or because people are shorting it then you didn't really know what you were buying in the first place.

If a company is unduly "under attack" so to speak by shorts then the best way to fight that is by proving it's worthy of higher valuations.
 
CloudNull

CloudNull

Banned
Ass of Can Whooping said:
We already do that

And what about failing companies or companies that have stagnated?

You can't make money betting against them, prices are going to arbitarily inflate

Shorting is no less ethical than longing. They're just tools that regulate the market.
Click to expand...

GHG said:
By creating downward pressure on stocks.

If the only way to make money was on the way up then everyone would just buy and hold indefinitely regardless of what the underlying asset or company does. The whole principle of short selling is what keeps the market in check to a certain degree.
Click to expand...

Okay these are great perspectives that make sense but I feel the process is gamed way to much. Getting people to not hold indefinitely makes sense and frees up a lot of interaction with the market. Since they have gamed shorting I will still focus on hedges that have overly shorted their positions. If they want to abuse the system then I and other apes will focus these specific scenarios.
 
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