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[tokkun]

I love dividends for my etfs but for individual stocks I prefer growth. But I like to rebalance my stock holdings whereas I just perpetually buy and hold etfs.

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

If you are going to hold an asset for a long time, then price growth should be better than dividends, because
A: Long-term capital gains tax is usually less than marginal income tax
B: You get to defer paying the tax for a long time

 

[Bandini]

AMD baby!

 

[Mrbob]

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

If you are going to hold an asset for a long time, then price growth should be better than dividends, because
A: Long-term capital gains tax is usually less than marginal income tax
B: You get to defer paying the tax for a long time

In my mind growth isn't always guaranteed long term so this is why I like a dividend for long holding etfs. Plus those dividends get directly reinvested and make up a good part of my retirement return. I'm buying etfs monthly so whether it's higher or lower I'm always investing. I don't buy individual stocks with long term focus in mind. I re-balance my holdings typically once a year. I'm looking for them to grow as fast as possible and don't worry about a quarterly payout. By doing once a year I only have to pay a long term capital gains tax, which I would have to anyway since my individual stocks aren't in retirement accounts.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

AMD baby!

hmm... debating if I should jump in now or if i already waited too long.

 

[Smiley90]

VHT is Healthcare, not Biotech, no?

I hold FBT which has been really good to me, too.

Yeah I just double checked the holding and technically you are right:

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundId=0956&FundIntExt=INT#tab=2

A mixture of health care, biotech companies, and pharmaceuticals.

on that note, FBT up another sweet sweet 3% today

 

[ClosingADoor]

I always love these price targets banks give. A month ago: price target $25. Stock dropped last week to $16. Now they come with a new price target: $16.50

Dudes... if you are going to give advise, it should be stuff that is going to happen, not what just happened.

 

[Bandini]

hmm... debating if I should jump in now or if i already waited too long.

It could easily be back below 13 by the end of the week. It's a roller coaster.

I'll probably pick up more if it gets near 12 again.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I get you are a Tesla fan, but if you bought Ford 10 years ago, it was $9 then. Now it is $11.21. With dividends you have a difference of $7,67. While not the greatest returns, it is still almost doubling your money. These are established companies, so no major growth is expected there and this is fine for people not wanting to take a lot of risk.

This makes little sense when you could just buy VTI or something. It's hard to de-risk more than holding the entire stock market. Holding any one single company's shares, regardless of the company, is much riskier than holding a total market index fund.

Plus as someone already mentioned, ordinary dividends are taxable the same year they are paid even if reinvested and treated as short term capital gains. Share appreciation is not taxed until you sell and thus if you are just sitting there watching your index fund's individual share value increasing it's compounding tax-free and by the time you sell it in 20 years it will be treated as long term capital gains.

I always love these price targets banks give. A month ago: price target $25. Stock dropped last week to $16. Now they come with a new price target: $16.50

Dudes... if you are going to give advise, it should be stuff that is going to happen, not what just happened.

That's not how price targets work, and the "advice" they give isn't for individual investors. The banks are the sharks and their advice is for the other sharks in the ocean like the hedge funds. In general as an individual investor, you're a minnow and your goal in life is to swim alongside the sharks and dodge their open jaws when they suddenly turn around to eat you. The sharks do not care about you except when they are hungry and you don't want them to care about you when you're the prey.

 

[Maybesew]

That's not how price targets work, and the "advice" they give isn't for individual investors. The banks are the sharks and their advice is for the other sharks in the ocean like the hedge funds. In general as an individual investor, you're a minnow and your goal in life is to swim alongside the sharks and dodge their open jaws when they suddenly turn around to eat you. The sharks do not care about you except when they are hungry and you don't want them to care about you when you're the prey.

Another way of looking at it is, nobody knows what's going to happen. Markets are random, and stocks go up 53% of the time. Don't listen to what anyone says, because it doesn't matter.

 

[ClosingADoor]

This makes little sense when you could just buy VTI or something. It's hard to de-risk more than holding the entire stock market. Holding any one single company's shares, regardless of the company, is much riskier than holding a total market index fund.

Plus as someone already mentioned, ordinary dividends are taxable the same year they are paid even if reinvested and treated as short term capital gains. Share appreciation is not taxed until you sell and thus if you are just sitting there watching your index fund's individual share value increasing it's compounding tax-free and by the time you sell it in 20 years it will be treated as long term capital gains.

Not everyone is American and has the same tax system and there might be reasons people want the dividend. Just wanted to point out that the old car companies have had their returns also and aren't stagnant.

That's not how price targets work, and the "advice" they give isn't for individual investors. The banks are the sharks and their advice is for the other sharks in the ocean like the hedge funds. In general as an individual investor, you're a minnow and your goal in life is to swim alongside the sharks and dodge their open jaws when they suddenly turn around to eat you. The sharks do not care about you except when they are hungry and you don't want them to care about you when you're the prey.

I know, but it is just funny how reactionary they can be sometimes. Shows how you shouldn't listen to them.

 

[Bandini]

Dividends are sweet. Free money to reinvest!

I just got a 3% dividend on NOK, which I have owned for a month, and has gained another 3% besides.

 

[Captain Smoker]

First Solar up 5% yesterday.

I hope it takes off in the next few months.


I somehow have a gut feeling that solar industry is going to get a push this year / next year after all these good reports and the fact that solar / renewables get cheaper and cheaper.

 

[Husker86]

Finally IBB gives back. That 300 wall was a bitch.

 

[Captain Smoker]

First Solar keeps on rising.

Another +5% for today.

 

[SonicXtreme]

First Solar up 5% yesterday.

I hope it takes off in the next few months.


I somehow have a gut feeling that solar industry is going to get a push this year / next year after all these good reports and the fact that solar / renewables get cheaper and cheaper.

is there good solar ETF, or is first really that much better than the whole?

 

[Mrbob]

AMD getting back near 15....might make a significant investment on the next pull back which I'm expecting to be around 11 or 12. Stock pretty volatile bouncing up and down.

Finally IBB gives back. That 300 wall was a bitch.

It just broke the 320 wall too. Biotech on fire again.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

How's your TSLA doing today?

Next factory in China, show me the money

 

[Smiley90]

is there good solar ETF, or is first really that much better than the whole?

"better" is a vague term. It's a lot higher risk with a lot higher potential payoff. Such is the life of individual stocks vs ETF's.


In Biotech ETF's, IBB & FBT are IMHO the best Biotech ETF's to follow atm.

IBB is up 20.55% YTD, FBT is up 29.68%.

IBB on NASDAQ, FBT on ARCA


not sure why you guys seem to favour IBB or FBT but I'm very happy with my FBT. MER's are nearly identical.

 

[massoluk]

Bought Canadian Solar at 19 a long ass time ago to see it went as low as 12.... Now it recouping, here's hoping it keep climbing

 

[Ether_Snake]

is there good solar ETF, or is first really that much better than the whole?

I have TAN, but really I never recommend investing in solar simply because of how risky it is. Never made money with solar.

 

[Captain Smoker]

is there good solar ETF, or is first really that much better than the whole?

Bought Canadian Solar at 19 a long ass time ago to see it went as low as 12.... Now it recouping, here's hoping it keep climbing

I have TAN, but really I never recommend investing in solar simply because of how risky it is. Never made money with solar.

Same experience.

I'm still -15% with First Solar (bought it like a year ago).


I think it's still too early. While fossil fuels are doomed, it still takes time for renewables.


I also wanted to invest into the iShares Global Clean Energy, which invests in renewables worldwide, not just solar, which should be better anyway, but this ETF never really took off, so I didn't invest.

 

[Natetan]

Same experience.

I'm still -15% with First Solar (bought it like a year ago).


I think it's still too early. While fossil fuels are doomed, it still takes time for renewables.


I also wanted to invest into the iShares Global Clean Energy, which invests in renewables worldwide, not just solar, which should be better anyway, but this ETF never really took off, so I didn't invest.

If you want to invest in renewables consider a yieldco. It's been a tough few years but PEGI is finally seeing some significant increase in share price.

http://investors.patternenergy.com/...aseID=1030580&CompanyID=AMDA-25NBHH&MobileID=

 

[Mrbob]

How's your TSLA doing today?

Next factory in China, show me the money

It's no AMD but it's doing ok. Currently ranked 7th in percentage return in my motif.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It's no AMD but it's doing ok. Currently ranked 7th in percentage return in my motif.

I sold all my AMD at $12.60 shortly before it did that drop to $10-ish. No ragrets. I took my profits and walked at that point, Epyc looks like a win but Vega looks like a fail so I don't know how it will go long-term.

This was randomly trending on r/wallstreetbets and it's something I should spend more time thinking on when I buy and sell things.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreet...eminder_of_what_real_devastating_losses_look/

I had vaguely heard of this random tiny solar company that went belly-up when they failed to get some contract with Apple for solar panels or phone screens or something. It was a blip on my radar at the time because I'm a long-term holder of AAPL so it popped up as random AAPL news and barely registered in my brain. People betting everything they had and even using margin, yikes. There's a few people like that at the Tesla Motors Club forum too, I think TSLA will be a success beyond human imagination but to bet everything you have and even leverage that? Guess we'll see. Those guys will either become billionaires or they'll end up like the guys who bet everything on GTAT.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Tencent a bit up again, reaching a new high. Hopefully it keeps going up towards $40.

 

[thestopsign]

I'm having a good week with stock. NTDOY is killing it, I'm up close to 40% right now and I have a pretty substantial amount invested in them. Still going to hold until the fall.

I bought a lot of NVAX real low earlier this year to balance out my more expensive stock. I'm slowly approaching my break even point with it in the last few weeks, but I still have a ways to go. Need something like a 50% increase still, but way better than what I was at.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Went 100% cash about 6 months ago because i had a major expense coming up, but that's over and done so I'm looking to get back in. I bought Amazon at 350 a few years ago, sold at 800. Regretting selling that one lol. Just bought again at like 975. Trying to decide what else to put the rest of my funds in. Not really looking for short term trades, hoping for some stocks i can just leave for a couple years and get anywhere from 20%-100% like i got with my AMZN and GOOG. Any suggestions? TSLA seems possible, as does NFLX. Moderate risk is ok

 

[Smiley90]

Went 100% cash about 6 months ago because i had a major expense coming up, but that's over and done so I'm looking to get back in. I bought Amazon at 350 a few years ago, sold at 800. Regretting selling that one lol. Just bought again at like 975. Trying to decide what else to put the rest of my funds in. Not really looking for short term trades, hoping for some stocks i can just leave for a couple years and get anywhere from 20%-100% like i got with my AMZN and GOOG. Any suggestions? TSLA seems possible, as does NFLX. Moderate risk is ok

if you want to leave them for a couple years, why do stocks and not index funds? Much safer. and you'll get 20+ in a few years likely.

 

[Mrbob]

I sold all my AMD at $12.60 shortly before it did that drop to $10-ish. No ragrets. I took my profits and walked at that point, Epyc looks like a win but Vega looks like a fail so I don't know how it will go long-term.

This was randomly trending on r/wallstreetbets and it's something I should spend more time thinking on when I buy and sell things.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreet...eminder_of_what_real_devastating_losses_look/

I had vaguely heard of this random tiny solar company that went belly-up when they failed to get some contract with Apple for solar panels or phone screens or something. It was a blip on my radar at the time because I'm a long-term holder of AAPL so it popped up as random AAPL news and barely registered in my brain. People betting everything they had and even using margin, yikes. There's a few people like that at the Tesla Motors Club forum too, I think TSLA will be a success beyond human imagination but to bet everything you have and even leverage that? Guess we'll see. Those guys will either become billionaires or they'll end up like the guys who bet everything on GTAT.

I don't buy a ton of single stocks anymore. If you pick the right stock you are golden. But if you pick the wrong stock it can bury you. At the same time though, I don't just want to buy ETFs (which are my main investment). This is why I like using Motif Investing to buy stocks. I can buy a basket of stocks all at once. If I have a basket of 20 stocks and a 10K investment, that puts roughly 500 into each stock. If one stock get crushed by 50% I only lose 250 dollars. I still enjoy picking stocks so this way it helps minimize some risk.

 

[Mrbob]

RIP Tech and Tesla, taking it on the chin this week.

Market is falling because Senate is not going to vote on the health care bill until after July 4th recess.

 

[BeforeU]

I bought the Google dip. Was debating till 3:55PM and then pulled the trigger at $928

I bought few couple of weeks ago too. now my average price is at $949.

Still at loss. But now GOOG is the biggest on my portfolio. Amazon second.

edit

just want some opinions here. I have more money invested in single stock than index fund

my single stocks are

GOOG
AMAZ
AAPL
BRK.B (doesn't really count as a single stock but still)

what you guys think? am I too risky?

now keep in mind, this is for long term. I am talking about at least 3-4 years

 

[ClosingADoor]

That's a lot of tech, no interest in other sectors?

 

[Maybesew]

RIP Tech and Tesla, taking it on the chin this week.

Market is falling because Senate is not going to vote on the health care bill until after July 4th recess.

Just a hundred points, hopefully it keeps going and we can get some two sided markets and an increase in volatility

 

[Natetan]

RIP Tech and Tesla, taking it on the chin this week.

Market is falling because Senate is not going to vote on the health care bill until after July 4th recess.

Pretty sure the EU decision against google and the hacking have something to do with it too.

 

[Natetan]

I bought the Google dip. Was debating till 3:55PM and then pulled the trigger at $928

I bought few couple of weeks ago too. now my average price is at $949.

Still at loss. But now GOOG is the biggest on my portfolio. Amazon second.

edit

just want some opinions here. I have more money invested in single stock than index fund

my single stocks are

GOOG
AMAZ
AAPL
BRK.B (doesn't really count as a single stock but still)

what you guys think? am I too risky?

now keep in mind, this is for long term. I am talking about at least 3-4 years

I'm in the same boat as you with a few other nominal investments in random sectors and an etf.

Not sure if I'm doing this right. I'm getting more comfortable with seeing all red on my stocks but even more comfortable when it's all green

 

[Mrbob]

Pretty sure the EU decision against google and the hacking have something to do with it too.

Yup combo breaker.

I think this Friday index rebalance too so I'm keeping powder dry to make some buys Friday before close. Tech as a whole crushed earnings so I want to buy any dip but want to see a bigger overall decline in tech first.

Google, Amazon, Apple all had big runs this year. Some consolidation is going to happen before the next move up. It may take weeks or months to consolidate but as long as they defeat earnings they will keep going up over time. Look at it from a longer perspective. Do you expect Amazon or Google to be above 1000 a year from now. I hope so and would expect this. Should be higher than that. Since tech stocks are more growth oriented you have to be able to stomach moves down since when they move up it happens pretty fast.

 

[BeforeU]

That's a lot of tech, no interest in other sectors?

The thing is I just dont trust putting my money on other sector. I know it sounds crazy but I believe in Google and Amazon enough that even if it drops 20% tomorrow. I wont panic thinking over time it is going to recover and they still have tremendous growth potential.

I'm in the same boat as you with a few other nominal investments in random sectors and an etf.

Not sure if I'm doing this right. I'm getting more comfortable with seeing all red on my stocks but even more comfortable when it's all green

Yup same, i have some ETF too. XEF.TO,XEC.TO,VUN.TO,VCE.TO,VUS.TO

 

[Natetan]

The thing is I just dont trust putting my money on other sector. I know it sounds crazy but I believe in Google and Amazon enough that even if it drops 20% tomorrow. I wont panic thinking over time it is going to recover and they still have tremendous growth potential.



Yup same, i have some ETF too. XEF.TO,XEC.TO,VUN.TO,VCE.TO,VUS.TO

I guess I'm a little gunshy. I worked for a company that was doing well and then the stock price dropped 90% and the company went bankrupt. Is amazon or google or Apple going to do that? Unlikely. But will the stock price go down to below the price I bought at for a prolonged period (like years)? that seems more likely. And in that case I would have been better off leaving my money in my bank account

 

[SecretMoblin]

Holding a handful of massive-cap equities is certainly less risky than using that money on a somewhat broader basket of smaller caps, but really all it takes is one impossible-to-predict event like Bezos getting arrested or iPhones exploding or Larry Page having a sudden interest in funding self-sealing potato chip bags to send the stock to volatility heaven and cause headaches that can last years, even if the recovery eventually happens.

For play money it's whatever, but I can't imagine that for most normies tying up half their net worth in a tiny handful of companies is a particularly safe or healthy long-term strat. These companies were nothing 20 years ago. Or maybe I just need to watch Run Lola Run a few more times and believe harder...

 

[Melon Husk]

Here I am, holding AMD from 12-something, not even looking at the numbers for past two weeks. Fat chance catching Nvidia, Intel's incompetence is much easier to take on.

 

[WoodWERD]

.

 

[Natetan]

Holding a handful of massive-cap equities is certainly less risky than using that money on a somewhat broader basket of smaller caps, but really all it takes is one impossible-to-predict event like Bezos getting arrested or iPhones exploding or Larry Page having a sudden interest in funding self-sealing potato chip bags to send the stock to volatility heaven and cause headaches that can last years, even if the recovery eventually happens.

For play money it's whatever, but I can't imagine that for most normies tying up half their net worth in a tiny handful of companies is a particularly safe or healthy long-term strat. These companies were nothing 20 years ago. Or maybe I just need to watch Run Lola Run a few more times and believe harder...

I don't think. Length of existence is a good measure for quality of investment. It's about deciding if the business model makes sense. Buying Kodak stock in the late 90s because it was a long standing company would have lost me a lot of money.

I think the big tech stocks business model is unchanged although still unsure if they're worth current valuations.

 

[BeforeU]

I guess I'm a little gunshy. I worked for a company that was doing well and then the stock price dropped 90% and the company went bankrupt. Is amazon or google or Apple going to do that? Unlikely. But will the stock price go down to below the price I bought at for a prolonged period (like years)? that seems more likely. And in that case I would have been better off leaving my money in my bank account

Holding a handful of massive-cap equities is certainly less risky than using that money on a somewhat broader basket of smaller caps, but really all it takes is one impossible-to-predict event like Bezos getting arrested or iPhones exploding or Larry Page having a sudden interest in funding self-sealing potato chip bags to send the stock to volatility heaven and cause headaches that can last years, even if the recovery eventually happens.

For play money it's whatever, but I can't imagine that for most normies tying up half their net worth in a tiny handful of companies is a particularly safe or healthy long-term strat. These companies were nothing 20 years ago. Or maybe I just need to watch Run Lola Run a few more times and believe harder...

I don't think. Length of existence is a good measure for quality of investment. It's about deciding if the business model makes sense. Buying Kodak stock in the late 90s because it was a long standing company would have lost me a lot of money.

I think the big tech stocks business model is unchanged although still unsure if they're worth current valuations.

You guys do make me nervous. I have almost 46% of investment in GOOG and AMAZON.

I am being very optimistic about Google's Waymo and Amazon's ability to disrupt 4th market. Pharmaceutical would be huge if done right. And Google's self driving approach is absolutely massive. They will just licence out the tech to other car companies and their massive investment in AI. I just can not see a world without these two companies anymore. Google's reach is bigger than any company I can think of.

What I want to know is, am I crazy? did people have same mindset about NOKIA, RIM before they shat the bed?

 

[Mrbob]

This is why I'm not too worried about Google and Amazon:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/04/27/alphabet-earnings-q1-2017.html

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/27/amazon-first-quarter-results-come-with-big-expectations.html

Until they struggle with earnings any down action is just noise.

 

[Natetan]

You guys do make me nervous. I have almost 46% of investment in GOOG and AMAZON.

I am being very optimistic about Google's Waymo and Amazon's ability to disrupt 4th market. Pharmaceutical would be huge if done right. And Google's self driving approach is absolutely massive. They will just licence out the tech to other car companies and their massive investment in AI. I just can not see a world without these two companies anymore. Google's reach is bigger than any company I can think of.

What I want to know is, am I crazy? did people have same mindset about NOKIA, RIM before they shat the bed?

The media preys on our fears, but I generally think the next 5 years that google and Amazon will have business models worth investing in. I just wish I had Invested earlier as I'm underwater now, mostly with just Apple.

Plus I think this is all cyclical right, sell in may and go away got delayed a little with increasing stock price. I think I'm not going to sell until my 12 month window ends.

Still I'd say Apple is the most worrisome of the three. I just hope the new iPhone will bring the price back up, and there's a dividend from that one so that gives me a tiny bit more confidence.

But I'm hardly an expert, much more intelligent people in this thread. I'm starting to wish I had just invested in etfs ha

 

[Ether_Snake]

The main risk for Google, Apple and Amazon is regulations outside the US. I don't know how reliant they are on the US market, where they are safe, but abroad what we saw today is going to keep on happening. The US is too dominant and countries will find any reasons (sometimes valid ones) to restrain them.

That's why I would look at expansion in the US as the source of their future growth, and that would come from expanding in other sectors like energy, telecommunications, healthcare, possibly education, transportation. Housing too ideally, but that seems like a really tough nut to crack.

The car side of things wouldn't make much sense usually, especially for a company like Apple to get into, but I think all three companies have come to the conclusion that if they don't own the platform they'll get screwed, so they will likely have to eventually have their own cars. Otherwise, they'll need a really solid partnership with a car company. If a big buyout eventually happens, I think it will be because of self-driving cars.

Apple will face increasing competition from China. It's the one company that looks like it has the most trouble going forward with expansion across other sectors. The Chinese phones will hurt them outside the US.

 

[Captain Smoker]

And the rollercoaster continues, everything up again.

 

[Bandini]

And the rollercoaster continues, everything up again.

I'm only up about .3% today due to a couple big losers... been a rough few days

 

[ClosingADoor]

Steel stock up 10% over the last week, hopefully it can add some more over the next months and get out of the red.

 

[tokkun]

You guys do make me nervous. I have almost 46% of investment in GOOG and AMAZON.

I am being very optimistic about Google's Waymo and Amazon's ability to disrupt 4th market. Pharmaceutical would be huge if done right. And Google's self driving approach is absolutely massive. They will just licence out the tech to other car companies and their massive investment in AI. I just can not see a world without these two companies anymore. Google's reach is bigger than any company I can think of.

What I want to know is, am I crazy? did people have same mindset about NOKIA, RIM before they shat the bed?

This is why I'm not too worried about Google and Amazon:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/04/27/alphabet-earnings-q1-2017.html

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/27/amazon-first-quarter-results-come-with-big-expectations.html

Until they struggle with earnings any down action is just noise.

I guess the question I would ask is why do you believe that the efficient market hypothesis does not apply to these companies? It's not like they are some hidden gems that other investors do not know about - they are some of the most widely covered stocks, and have been for a long time.