Gunslinger
Member
『Inaba Resident』;201057098 said:
Do you think a lot of these SFV hate bandwagoners would have actually bought the game even if it had arcade mode? I think not. They would have still been butthurt about something.
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Street Fighter V |OT3| Frauds Among Us
- Thread starter Garrett Hawke
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Do you think a lot of these SFV hate bandwagoners would have actually bought the game even if it had arcade mode? I think not. They would have still been butthurt about something.
We would have just seen a lot more "SF4.5" comparisons
Gunslinger
Member
Nothing wrong with that play what you like ma son. If SFV isn't your thing then it isnt play MKX or KI or GGXrDR
I think we all expected Capcom to look at SF4 and pretty much add everything that game had and then some. It was what common sense dictated, no one could have guessed they'd miss stuff like punishing rage quitters, somewhat stable servers at launch, Zenny store, saving training mode settings, etc.
CountBlack
Member
I honestly don't think the game having an arcade mode & VS CPU mode would boost the sales by another 500K to push it over 1 million sold.
If the trials/tutorials/arcade mode/vs CPU mode all came at launch and was advertised to be apart of the product heavily before launch I could see maybe another 100-200K in sales. maybe
I mean.. you weren't going to last too long with the game if you couldn't deal with hadouken spammers
shadow_shogun
Member
GAF isn't as bad as GameFaqs when it comes to hating this game.
TheSpoiler
Member
The service idea was probably what they wanted to do but spread over time. I'm betting now they'll up the rate that the service stuff gets implemented faster.
So right now, Sony and Capcom are deciding to push up production and try to get more content out faster right now, or ride it out and let the plan come to fruition.
lucebuce12
Member
Should merge and become GameGAFfes
skLaFarebear
Member
Nah, I doubt this game was gonna hit the projections no matter what they had in the game from day one or how well it reviewed.
There's actually some decent discussion over there
sometimes
I don't know about the projections, but it's not as if the state of the game and bad WoM didn't have a very real impact on the game's sales.
Memes are cheaper than updates
Mediking
Member
Yeah, if SFV had much more content at launch then sure sales would've been better... but... also...
And I really hope I don't get in trouble for saying this:
I've been in the PS4 userbase for a good while now. I've also noticed that... many PS4 owners.... ESPECIALLY THE SUPER CASUAL GAMERS which dominates a vast majority of the PS4 userbase (in my opinion) and even some who call themselves HARDCORE.... just do not care about games that are not incredibly mainstream.
SFV is not the only PS4 game to suffer bad sales because of not being mainstream.
People have different tastes for games and that's fine but it's not really shocking when I see something like this happening.
A huge install base like this should have, AT LEAST, a million sold for most games easily. Isn't GTA V still the highest sold PS4 game???
And I really hope I don't get in trouble for saying this:
I've been in the PS4 userbase for a good while now. I've also noticed that... many PS4 owners.... ESPECIALLY THE SUPER CASUAL GAMERS which dominates a vast majority of the PS4 userbase (in my opinion) and even some who call themselves HARDCORE.... just do not care about games that are not incredibly mainstream.
SFV is not the only PS4 game to suffer bad sales because of not being mainstream.
People have different tastes for games and that's fine but it's not really shocking when I see something like this happening.
A huge install base like this should have, AT LEAST, a million sold for most games easily. Isn't GTA V still the highest sold PS4 game???
I bet I sound like a moron. I'll shut up.
MKX has sold over five million units. It's not a niche market.
skLaFarebear
Member
Agreed. It definitely would've sold better, but 2 mil was a big stretch looking back on it.
They're also better.
shadow_shogun
Member
Oh yeah, I know as I frequent both sites, but I've noticed if someone says something akin to liking survival mode or anything positive, he/she is likely to be branded a capcom shill.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It is making me reconsider that it's apathy reguarding V. The problem is the discussion is in that same gear Japanese and PC gaming discussions were stuck in for most of Gen 7: phrasing problems in a form to show a hypothetical know-nothing/clueless fanboy that they're wrong.
And it just doesn't end as that hypothetical is still out there...
That kind of energy to manifest in this is rather strong if V launched in May/had RQ/didnt catch the entitlement attention/etc.
I think you're close on that front. The web 2.0 era of the internet shows and gives us access to niche wonderment we'd never know of but at the same time it seems to allow big opportunities to get bigger.
As for that, dunno. I've been beating the drum that more modes are not a guarentee of success showing off how hit-and-miss its been in the genre in the modern era. I am warming up to the idea that it can hurt, but that ain't giving developers anything to go off of ya know?
Damn.
TheSpoiler
Member
Trickster
Member
We really pretending that the SF5 hate/sales are completely unlinked to the actual state of SF5?
There's so much shit missing or badly designed.
1 We can pretty much all agree that Survival mode is shit, through and through, it's just terrible. The ai is cheap as fuck and the powerup system is rng bullshit. And let's not mention the absolutely mindboggingly idiotic way that colour unlocks are tied into survival is. If you want to unlock the colours of just the base and first alt costume, assuming you complete all the easy, normal and hard on first try ( good luck with that ). You have to grind over three fucking thousand rounds.
2 No arcade mode, seriously, this just doesn't make sense. It's a staple features in pretty much every fighing game, the exclusion of it makes absolutely no sense.
3 Story mode not in the game for 3 months or however long it is. You can make the "SF5 is a content platform" argument if you want, but when the game is as sparse as SF5 was/is at launch, it doesn't hold up.
4 Store not going online until 1½ monts after release. And the money making part of the store is still being worked on, with no eta.
5 Only 16 characters. Say what you will about quality > quantity, however 16 characters is a low amont when looking at other full price fighting games.
6 Training/tutorial mode. For a game that capcom was very vocal about wanting to help draw new players into the genre, SF5 does a horrendous job of actually being friendly towards new players. Killer Instinct is what SF5 should have aimed for in this regard, but instead it did the exact opposite and did absolutely nothing to help introduce players to the mechanics of the game.
7 Online was a mess and near unplayable for days after launch. Seriously, MKX for freaking pc was better at launch than SF5.
8 The complete lack of a penalty system for players who quit matches repeatedly.
9 The game appeals to only the fighting game purists who just want to play other players, yet the online portion is a joke in terms of features and options
I could go on...but I'm tired as fuck so I'll end it here. But uh, yeah...Given the state SF5 launched and still is in to a large extent, the backlash for the game is absolutely understandable.
I bet Nash and Ken mains are the ones who have the highest disconnect rates online.
Yep, this is pretty much why I understand and even relate to the backlash, as someone who's put dozens of hours into the game and continues to play it.
Poor sales are very much directly correlated to this game's reception, word of mouth and overall rough edges.
Yep, this is pretty much why I understand and even relate to the backlash, as someone who's put dozens of hours into the game and continues to play it.
Poor sales are very much directly correlated to this game's reception, word of mouth and overall rough edges.
In my experience Gief players RQ a lot lately. I have 3 different players rage quitting in my YT channel.
CountBlack
Member
no one is denying that the game is full of problems, but with these things being fixed/not being there at launch would the game have sold over 2 million by the end of March?
Of course it's a niche market in comparison to the triple A titles. MKX is one of the only few games in this genre that manged to sell that much due to the casual appeal of the game and the marketing power behind WB. It's a good game but it still has a long way to go before it can be as popular as SF on a competitor level.
Who knows? It wouldn't have hurt to have good word of mouth and positive critical reception that's for sure.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
I could try and help with some general things for Dhalsim if you have any questions by the time you get around to him, since I'm not too knowledgeable about match-ups yet.
Anecdotal evidence, but out of the 28 'ragequits' / disconnects I've experienced, 16 of them happened against Ken players.
The one that always bothers me is the statement that SF5 was designed to be easier to play. Sure, technically that's true, but changing 1 frame links to 2-3 frame links isn't going to win over any casual players who's greatest combo is j.hk into sweep.
Not to say I'm not grateful. Played Abel in SF4 for godsake.
Not to say I'm not grateful. Played Abel in SF4 for godsake.
Hellshingu
Member
MKX had a huge marketing campaign, has gore, and single player "content." These things had a huge impact on the sales honestly as well as being the first big, new fighting game for the new consoles. Casuals like to see cool stuff and blood squirting and dismemberment are unfortunately under the "cool stuff" category. Lots of teenage kids in my family and their friends that mostly play big AAA games and shooters only that have no interest in fighters all like MKX because of the gore. While that is a small sample size I am sure this is true throughout most areas of America.
This situation in the FGC is interesting to me. MKX sold tons but the online presence and tournament turn out is low. SFV sold poorly but the tournament turn out is the highest it has ever been.
Mediking
Member
We need to be real about this because we are the only ones who actually bought and enjoyed the game. For such a great game that has fun gameplay and sexy fanservice.... it still has alotta problems to those who play it constantly.
And Ibuki will be fun. Her annoying English voice won't be fun.
Trickster
Member
I obviously can't answer that definitively.
But if someone seriously suggests that the lack of content and crippling online launch issues didn't negatively affectthe reviews, word of mouth, and sales. Those people would have to be off their rocker.
Ask yourself what kind of sales MKX would have had without all the extra things to do outside of online ( story mode especially ).
Ai usually let's me spam f. Hp At close range for quite a while
Yes, that is strange but pleasing to see. Plus the fact that SFV has over 3,000 entrants at EVO (which is the highest since conception) means the game is hugely popular and will continue to grow.
This is essentially been my argument. SFxT was loaded with characters and features and that came also failed to hit it's projected 2 million quarterly sales. SFxT also had maybe 10x more advertising leading up to launch than SFV. Weeks before SFV launched I was pegging it to sell around a million. If all that advertising and features couldn't do it, SFV wouldn't either.
Of course, if the PS4 sub-300k numbers are true that's even worse than I anticipated. As I've said in a million SFV threads here is those basic single player features should have been in but wouldn't have saved this game. However, in light of recent sales I do figure those lack of features essentially kicked it off the sales charts for March due to all the negative word of mouth.
And yeah, GAF has a hard on for hating this game. They have a hard on for hating Capcom in general, many reasons I think are whining (on disc DLC) whereas others are legit (trash online feature set and functionality, Mega Man, etc.). They're one of those game companies that are labeled anti-consumer like EA and Activision. However, EA and Activision are juggernauts so you can only get so much schadenfreude out of then when their games are blockbusters. Capcom survived the transition to HD development unlike many Japanese companies but they lost their status as a top tier developer last gen. You can get more mileage out of them if you want to see them fail.
They still make the vast majority of my favorite games, though. Only Nintendo comes close in that regard.
Mediking
Member
Also throw in the fact that the PS4 userbase is in a huge tug-of-war of buying mainstream and neglecting niche games that aren't mainstream and you have your answer.
lucebuce12
Member
It's not just the 3-frame link thing, it's the fact that combos in general are much shorter in this game than they were before. You can't pull off insane super-meter and v-trigger burning combos that require strict timings as was sometimes the case in SF4.
It really does feel like you win because you played better and have a better understanding of the game.
EDIT: But like you said it's not going to make it so that the casual players suddenly start kicking ass but there's less of an entry barrier than there was before, even at the start of SF4 IMO.
People bought MK10 by droves. Capcom even said they liked the MK9 single player content! why did they launch without anything comparable?! it is mindboggling. I don't think that SF could be called niche before SFV.
There's a lot of stuff where we can blame on outsourcing. Not just the online part, which is amazingly terrible, but also the ugly faces and terrible blonde hair, as the art apparently was also outsourced.
I think that payed off; even people in super bronze are doing decent combos.
Almost everything that is the core gameplay in SFV is aces, top of the line, state of the art.
It's just the whole rest of the game that isn't up to par.
lucebuce12
Member
One of the things that MKX had going for it was also the fact that it was the first major fighting game for the PS4/X1 (I think that's the case at least).
KI did come out on X1 in 2013, but the X1 wasn't doing particularly great at the time compared to the PS4 so it got a bit swept under the rug. It's been doing considerably better now, even moreso with the recent W10 release.
EDIT: When I say major, I mean one of those fighting games that even casuals will know of and people who don't play fighting games might have heard of.
KI did come out on X1 in 2013, but the X1 wasn't doing particularly great at the time compared to the PS4 so it got a bit swept under the rug. It's been doing considerably better now, even moreso with the recent W10 release.
EDIT: When I say major, I mean one of those fighting games that even casuals will know of and people who don't play fighting games might have heard of.
FormallyFamicom
Member
I'm with Count on this. Even if SFV released as The Perfect Game it still wouldn't have met Capcom's sales projections. We've seen big name games before review poorly and have janky issues but still sell on the name, at least for the first month. If the Street Fighter name is only worth this much, there wasn't much hope to begin with.
I dunno what that says about the future of the genre, other than there needs to be a more drastic change in approach. F2P is probably inevitable.
I dunno what that says about the future of the genre, other than there needs to be a more drastic change in approach. F2P is probably inevitable.
I think the Street Fighter name is only worth this much because of how Capcom has been treating it since Street Fighter IV, and not simply because that's just not what the consumerbase wants anymore.
If poor sales are not solely the fault of Street Fighter V in isolation, they also reflect the perception of the brand as it has been building up until this point, with re-releases and all.
Now if we go on the assumption that SFV would have never made projections even if it was feature complete (which I'm not convinced of), we do have to ask ourselves why has the series stagnated so much?
Since we're comparing with MK anyways, we see that both SF4 and MK9 were hugely successful and helped to revive each series to mainstream popularity. Why has MK been able to keep being successful and why has SF fallen so far in the time since then?
Since we're comparing with MK anyways, we see that both SF4 and MK9 were hugely successful and helped to revive each series to mainstream popularity. Why has MK been able to keep being successful and why has SF fallen so far in the time since then?
Mediking
Member
Mortal Kombat is so blatantly mainstream. MKX sold well for alotta reasons and one of those reasons is because of GORE and that the fact that it tried its best to make you feel cool for playing it.
Comparing MKX (Sales wise) to SFV isn't fair at all. SF's culture and community is actually... LOYAL.
Comparing MKX (Sales wise) to SFV isn't fair at all. SF's culture and community is actually... LOYAL.
Hellshingu
Member
Exactly what I said earlier. I think people underestimate that fact. Being first out of the gate was huge for MKX as most casuals probably only buy 1 or 2 FGs throughout a whole console cycle. SFIV was the first big well known fighting game for the 360 and PS3 after a long drought for the series. I am not counting SC4 and MKvsDC as SC4 wasn't a huge name to most and MKvsDC was hot garbage.
Like I said earlier gore and making you look cool. People like us that visit forums and whatnot underestimate the value of gore to the mainstream audience.
lucebuce12
Member
Mortal Kombat is just in general easier to sell, even more so with the "ultra-realistic" graphics of MKX. I'm sure there were a decent number of people who bought it just to see how the game is like, visually.
I'm not going to pretend that having Single player content didn't help it but MKX is just an easier sell than SF5 these days.
I'm not going to pretend that having Single player content didn't help it but MKX is just an easier sell than SF5 these days.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Pretty much. So, so much easier to sell. Particularly as Street Fighter has a reputation for being inaccessible (reinforced by the choices made by Capcom regarding the games' launch, despite what they said about their design philosophy) and is a Japanese, non "realistic" title.
The gore and horror guest characters is a big part of MKX's success as well.
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