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[skLaFarebear]

Random supers have nothing to do with health. I don't see the comparison.

Your problem with super armor on moves is that even if your press a button that would normally kill, the armor will go through it (saving the opponent from death) and still hit you. Like i said, it's no stupider than a super doing the exact same thing.

If your opponent has meter and they've been playing risky/have nothing to lose at that point, you could just block, jump, throw out a move that hits twice, or not press as many buttons when they have meter.

 

[Duress]

I don't know if I want to pick up another character so early in its infancy

 

[Shadoken]

You get in through a solid ground game. Jumps are already too strong in this game.

How so? An Anti air leads to your opponent gaining the momentum. Most AA->Dash leads to frame advantage. Jumps are just fine as they are.

Characters who are meant to have solid AAs work just fine with them. The others with weak ones require precise timing , which means you need to be more ready for the threat of a jumpin. A shoto for example can AA very late even if he wasnt expecting it with a DP. But cant do much against Long range Jumpins. Where the opponent could bait it out by not pressing a button. A character like Nash for example excels at AAing far range jumpins.

It is all about the character you play and their weaknesses.

 

[icecold1983]

Decided to play the game today since I hadn't touched it all weekend and it was one horrible fight after another. Battle lounge is full of Ryu walls, ranked was stuffed full of Ryu walls and a mashy Nash that pissed me the hell off. I lost my silver rank but got it back exactly at 2000 LP. I don't think I can tolerate this sort of online where 90% of my matches will be against Ryus playing like a wall with their hadoukens, parries, dragon punches and super hard hitting basic combos. Getting in on him feels impossible. It made me think there is no way I'll pay for Alex because without his air stampede/stomp it's just a battle of attrition. The worst must have been the game disconnecting during the beginning of the third round of a ranked Karen mirror match that probably looked like a rage quit to my opponent. What a disappointing night. I never thought Ryu could bring me so much grief.

Based on my experience the current system is overly harsh and the vast majority of players will stay bronze as a result. When I was trying to work my way up I got 2-3 six win streaks against bronze/super bronze players, but a couple of losses would wipe out my winnings pretty quickly. The only reason I got to Silver rank was winning a few matches against silver and super silvers that dole out a good amount of points.

It's definitely a harsh system. The trophies and lack of penalties just exacerbates the issue.

all ryu can do is turtle. he has zero offensive usefulness unless you can parry everything with 100% success rate while rushing. his moves have zero priority, he has the worst get up move of all the characters who have one, the shortest range on his attacks, the most useless special moves and super art, his v trigger is fucking worthless, using his v skill takes 100000x more skill than other fighters, and his recovery time for everything is just brutally long

 

[Skilletor]

Your problem with super armor on moves is that even if your press a button that would normally kill, the armor will go through it (saving the opponent from death) and still hit you. Like i said, it's no stupider than a super doing the exact same thing.

If your opponent has meter and they've been playing risky/have nothing to lose at that point, you could just block, jump, throw out a move that hits twice, or not press as many buttons when they have meter.

I think there's a difference between invincibility and a system that potentially gives a person more health than they have to preserve armor.

This has nothing to do with skill, losing or winning. I've never mentioned it because it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. This isn't a "git gud" argument. I just think it's a stupid mechanic that will potentially allow a person to gamble with more health than they've got.

 

[Sinatar]

all ryu can do is turtle. he has zero offensive usefulness unless you can parry everything with 100% success rate while rushing. his moves have zero priority, he has the worst get up move of all the characters who have one, the shortest range on his attacks, the most useless special moves and super art, his v trigger is fucking worthless, using his v skill takes 100000x more skill than other fighters, and his recovery time for everything is just brutally long

Someone apparently hasn't discovered the wonder and magic of Ryu's medium punch.

 

[Shadoken]

all ryu can do is turtle. he has zero offensive usefulness unless you can parry everything with 100% success rate while rushing. his moves have zero priority, he has the worst get up move of all the characters who have one, the shortest range on his attacks, the most useless special moves and super art, his v trigger is fucking worthless, using his v skill takes 100000x more skill than other fighters, and his recovery time for everything is just brutally long

1) He has normals that have frame advatage. His MP is excellent. Hardly anyone in this game has safe spammable specials so ryu is no exception.

2) No such thing as priority

3) Having a DP means a lot. Whats wrong with Ryus? Many need meter and even then they whiff if you neutral jump.

4) Wtf?

 

[CountBlack]

How so? An Anti air leads to your opponent gaining the momentum. Most AA->Dash leads to frame advantage. Jumps are just fine as they are.

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

 

[skLaFarebear]

I think there's a difference between invincibility and a system that potentially gives a person more health than they have to preserve armor.

This has nothing to do with skill, losing or winning. I've never mentioned it because it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. This isn't a "git gud" argument. I just think it's a stupid mechanic that will potentially allow a person to gamble with more health than they've got.

I'm not making this a "git gud' argument. Gambling is a big part of SF, and I'm struggling to see how it's stupid. Characters like Cammy have an invincible reversal that's usually a big gamble, but so when Mika and Laura have a move that's good for reversals (each with it's own different advantages and disadvantages) suddenly it's stupid?

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

Agreed. There's much less risk to jumping in this game versus 4. It's been kinda buggin me since day one.

At the worst you'll eat a potential mixup after a cross up situation.

 

[icecold1983]

1) He has normals that have frame advatage.

2) No such thing as priority

3) Having a DP means a lot. Whats wrong with Ryus? Many need meter and even then they whiff if you neutral jump.

4) Wtf?

maybe i mixed up v trigger and v skill. i mean his charge fireball is useless and his parry takes a mind boggling level of skill to be effective. his mp is okay in terms of recovery time but that shit gets out ranged and out framed by nearly every single attack in the game. and almost every character other than ryu can string together near endless attacks of a variety of type with little to no recovery time. crouching HK is about the only exception. the ones that do have some recovery time are few and far between and often leave the fighter out of range for ryu to do any real damage anyway.

his dragon punch is close to useless as a getup move, its only useful for people who jump into you, which is no one half decent.

 

[qcf x2]

all ryu can do is turtle. he has zero offensive usefulness unless you can parry everything with 100% success rate while rushing. his moves have zero priority, he has the worst get up move of all the characters who have one, the shortest range on his attacks, the most useless special moves and super art, his v trigger is fucking worthless, using his v skill takes 100000x more skill than other fighters, and his recovery time for everything is just brutally long

I can allow the rest, but no. I do way more damage with Ryu's CA than anybody except Birdie. You can combo into it from any special move and many normals and the hitbox has enough vert that you can even anti air with it if you're feeling fancy. The startup is a bit slow though.

I think we're early enough that play style is still subjective. I rush down more with Ryu and sit back / punish more with Cammy than the usual player. His normals are nice and meaty, and I rarely if ever drop even his longer combos because they're pretty easy.

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

So it feels more like Street Fighter then? Good.

 

[Skilletor]

I'm not making this a "git gud' argument. Gambling is a big part of SF, and I'm struggling to see how it's stupid. Characters like Cammy have an invincible reversal that's usually a big gamble, but so when Mika and Laura have a move that's good for reversals (each with it's own different advantages and disadvantages) suddenly it's stupid?

Then take away the white health on armor moves. /shrug

I'm not complaining about the reversal or its armor.

I think if I hit you for more health than you have, you should die.

That's all.

And that's the last thing I'll say about this, since it's not a big deal to me. Just something I think is stupid in a game I love.

 

[Xevren]

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

Agreed with this alllllllll the way.

 

[Ferrio]

his dragon punch is close to useless as a getup move, its only useful for people who jump into you, which is no one half decent.

His DP is one of the few invul wake up moves in the game. No way is it close to useless.

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

Sometimes that frame advantage and potential crossunder is enough for a character to start steam rolling you.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

2) No such thing as priority

Not entirely true, in that lights < mediums < heavies = specials < CAs, in the case of two attacks trading.

 

[Marz]

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

Yup.

 

[GootecksShimmy]

all ryu can do is turtle. he has zero offensive usefulness unless you can parry everything with 100% success rate while rushing. his moves have zero priority, he has the worst get up move of all the characters who have one, the shortest range on his attacks, the most useless special moves and super art, his v trigger is fucking worthless, using his v skill takes 100000x more skill than other fighters, and his recovery time for everything is just brutally long

JImCarry.gif "Who the hell you talking to?"

Ryu has no offense in this game? What?

You literally just wrote 100% false information about everything about Ryu. There isn't one fact in wtf you just wrote.

 

[Zackat]

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

yeah I find myself jumping a lot more in this game. I was even worse at SFIV than I am at this game though. Getting AA'd is more aggravating than anything.

 

[icecold1983]

His DP is one of the few invul wake up moves in the game. No way is it close to useless.

its not invul.

I can allow the rest, but no. I do way more damage with Ryu's CA than anybody except Birdie. You can combo into it from any special move and many normals and the hitbox has enough vert that you can even anti air with it if you're feeling fancy. The startup is a bit slow though.

I think we're early enough that play style is still subjective. I rush down more with Ryu and sit back / punish more with Cammy than the usual player. His normals are nice and meaty, and I rarely if ever drop even his longer combos because they're pretty easy.




So it feels more like Street Fighter then? Good.

fireball and hurricane kick are absolutely useless. his super art is only usable as a combo finisher, but i mean any super art in the game can be used as a combo finisher. other supers have at least some level of utility outside of that. not ryus,

 

[skLaFarebear]

Then take away the white health on armor moves. /shrug

I'm not complaining about the reversal or its armor.

Then it'd make it too good because the reward would too heavily outfavor the risk of throwing one out. White health, as seen by what Art does with Sim's v-trigger, is really important in this game.

 

[Shadoken]

Not entirely true, in that lights < mediums < heavies = specials < CAs, in the case of two attacks trading.

Yea but that is something across the board. Not really specific to Ryu. I just meant theres no such thing as Chun li has 10 priority while Ryu has 2 or something.

 

[Ferrio]

its not invul.

MP/EX does.

Learn the basics of your character before you start trashing it for not having options you don't know exist.

 

[Teknopathetic]

They should have cribbed even more from SFxT and had juggle state on aerial counter hit.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Yea but that is something across the board. Not really specific to Ryu. I just meant theres no such thing as Chun li has 10 priority while Ryu has 2 or something.

Agreed. Sorry for being nit-picky.

 

[CountBlack]

So it feels more like Street Fighter then? Good.

playing like a kangaroo is how street fighter is supposed to feel like?

 

[GootecksShimmy]

I don't know if I want to pick up another character so early in its infancy

Experiment with the whole cast. Even the ones you have 0 interest in. It's 100% recommended to up your game.

I didn't think I'd be maining Vega right now. I even played him in the betas and wasn't going down this road, and yet here I am.

I'll swap the second Alex shows up, but if I'm total butt cheeks with Alex I can fall back on claw.

 

[Shadoken]

its not invul.

What are you talking about , MP DP has invinc on first active Frame.

 

[mbpm1]

maybe i mixed up v trigger and v skill. i mean his charge fireball is useless and his parry takes a mind boggling level of skill to be effective. his mp is okay in terms of recovery time but that shit gets out ranged and out framed by nearly every single attack in the game. and almost every character other than ryu can string together near endless attacks of a variety of type with little to no recovery time. crouching HK is about the only exception. the ones that do have some recovery time are few and far between and often leave the fighter out of range for ryu to do any real damage anyway.

his dragon punch is close to useless as a getup move, its only useful for people who jump into you, which is no one half decent.

His charge fireball is used to mixup timings. It's not wonderful but it does the job.

If you think his DP is useless...boy, try playing someone without any invincible moves. Like half the cast.

What are you talking about , MP DP has invinc on first active Frame.

oh wait, this is the guy who refused to believe MP DP has invincibility. No point then

 

[skLaFarebear]

With that being said, I think that SF4 might have went to far in the direction of making jumping outside of safe jumps way too risky. Jumping is an important part of SF, though I wish there was a little more punishment for jumping than a small amount of damage.

Though I've been catching jumps with Laura's st.mp and putting them in a mixup situation pretty often so i personally can't complain too much about jumps.

 

[GootecksShimmy]

His charge fireball is used to mixup timings. It's not wonderful but it does the job.

If you think his DP is useless...boy, try playing someone without any invincible moves. Like half the cast.



oh wait, this is the guy who refused to believe MP DP has invincibility. No point then

He literally just needs to watch one video of Valle playing Ryu to learn how to rush it down with him.

 

[leehom]

How do I defend a cross up with ryu? If I don't get the block off, I usually get combo to death.

 

[icecold1983]

His charge fireball is used to mixup timings. It's not wonderful but it does the job.

If you think his DP is useless...boy, try playing someone without any invincible moves. Like half the cast.



oh wait, this is the guy who refused to believe MP DP has invincibility. No point then

i get hit out of and hit other ryus out of it all the time

 

[GootecksShimmy]

Servers are being super weird to me today.

I'll get through the wait screens, get to see my character and opponent on vs load screen, then it 40002's me.

Had that happen 3 times now. Wtf?

 

[Marz]

How do I defend a cross up with ryu? If I don't get the block off, I usually get combo to death.

Auto correct dp

 

[Sheroking]

You get in through a solid ground game. Jumps are already too strong in this game.

Anti-airs should be made better across the board.

Could not disagree with you more.

Anti-airs are fine, jumping in is bad and some of the anti-airs in this game rival USF4 Elena with hitbox stupidity. A normal anti-air should never, ever beat a cross-up. Ever.

 

[mbpm1]

He literally just needs to watch one video of Valle playing Ryu to learn how to rush it down with him.

Doesn't Valle use Rashid now tho

 

[Producer]

i get hit out of and hit other ryus out of it all the time

You are either mistiming it or not doing the MP/EX versions

 

[Shadoken]

I feel like in SFIV jumping in against some characters really put your life on the line while in this game the worst you'll get is 60-100 damage and some frame advantage against you lol. The risk/reward is sometimes in the jumping players favour IMO

Agreed with this alllllllll the way.

Yup.

What am i reading? Every SF game has been like this though. You guys are seriously underestimating giving the momentum to the other player. Sometimes you can even go mixup with a dash under.

It is like saying landing a sweep on a whiffed poke is useless because all it does is give you frame advantage and 60-100 damage. Does that make whiff punishing pointless?

 

[Skilletor]

They should have cribbed even more from SFxT and had juggle state on aerial counter hit.

That would be pretty dope.

 

[skLaFarebear]

i get hit out of and hit other ryus out of it all the time

On wakeup? Maybe you're not using it on the first frame then.

Go to the training room and choose Ryu as your opponent and set Ryu's wake up action on frame one to be a medium DP (if it says reversal then you did it on frame one) and keep knocking him down and see if anything you press works.

 

[GootecksShimmy]

Doesn't Valle use Rashid now tho

Both.

Last night I saw him only playing Ryu. He bodied Floe hard.

 

[Shadoken]

How do I defend a cross up with ryu? If I don't get the block off, I usually get combo to death.

How is the opponent landing a cross up?

Did they knock you down? In which case you can try to Auto-correct DP. If they are just crossing you up after a block string , then just walk forward make the cross up whiff and start attacking them and start your offense.

 

[mbpm1]

Winning through input errors feels...bad.

 

[KhalilSyncere]

They should have cribbed even more from SFxT and had juggle state on aerial counter hit.

It does on crush counters tho.

 

[Durrzerker]

Alright guys, help. I'm stuck in Super Bronze as Rashid and feel lost on how to get higher.

I know jumping in is bad. I try not to do it, but it feels like I have no other options to ever open people up. I struggle to win the neutral game, and even when I land a hit confirm [which I do quite a bit] it's only ever with either c.LK which I can't seem to combo into anything, or forward st.MP, which I can turn into a spinning mixer and not much else.

I have no idea what to do with Rashid's v-skill, since it just sends me airborne to get SRK'd, and the roll, while nice for dodging hadoukens and passing through my tornadoes to suddenly kick people, has been valuable, it still feels too risky.

Can someone help? I know I can do better as Rashid, I've seen Gold Rashids, so I'm not blaming the character; I just don't understand how I'm supposed to open someone up who techs my throws, because none of my neutrals feel solid.

 

[Sheroking]

What am i reading? Every SF game has been like this though. You guys are seriously underestimating giving the momentum to the other player. Sometimes you can even go mixup with a dash under.

It is like saying landing a sweep on a whiffed poke is useless because all it does is give you frame advantage and 60-100 damage. Does that make whiff punishing pointless?

Also, lots of characters can CA a jump-in on reaction. How is that any different than eating an Ultra?

Nobody is doing it yet because it's like day 27.

 

[Pure_Phazon]

Winning through input errors feels...bad.

It's only random if it doesn't hit :^)

 

[Marz]

Could not disagree with you more.

Anti-airs are fine, jumping in is bad and some of the anti-airs in this game rival USF4 Elena with hitbox stupidity. A normal anti-air should never, ever beat a cross-up. Ever.

Agree to disagree then. I dont like having to play Super Mario Bros. in the only ground based fighting game and Capcom continually enabling that style of play...but thats just me.

 

[mbpm1]

I beat one Laura

So the game made me fight like 5 lauras until I lost to one

pls capcom

not this character

 

[CountBlack]

What am i reading? Every SF game has been like this though. You guys are seriously underestimating giving the momentum to the other player. Sometimes you can even go mixup with a dash under.

It is like saying landing a sweep on a whiffed poke is useless because all it does is give you frame advantage and 60-100 damage. Does that make whiff punishing pointless?

I understand the momentum swings/mixup/dash under positions that jumping in gives you in this game. All I'm saying is that jumping towards the player in this game isn't as scary as it was in 4.

I never said anything was pointless lol

I beat one Laura

So the game made me fight like 5 lauras until I lost to one

pls capcom

not this character

when you gonna come get this work