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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs

mbpm1

Member
Uhhhhhhhh

Let's change the topic,

hmmmmmmmm

Lots of games are falling victim. Its just en vogue to overemphasis Capcom's shortcomings, despite the fact that Capcom is honestly not too far off the mark. What's worse is that many within the FGC are being rewarded with positive attention for how hard they strike out against Capcom & SFV in particular.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind anyone who makes the assertion that SFV is an awful/shittier/dumpster fire of a game. When I see BornFree give F.Champ a platform to espouse that shit that he does particularly because he knows the r/kappa crowd loves hearing it, I see just how far we've come as a community in turning against Capcom.

And whenever a sane take on all this tries to come up, it just results in the community lashing out at them. Like, personally, I have been severely burned on IJ2's laughable gameplay balancing (zzzzzzzzzzoning) and Tekken 7's inconsistent level of quality, yet its perfectly okay for them cause lol Capcom.

I don't know if it's lots of games bc I'm only talking capcom here, but the rest is kinda what I feel.

People are rly feeling the hit from whatever they dislike about sfv. Some of it is earned, some of it isn't, but either way when people see anything wrong with MvCI it's like emblematic of whatever they dislike about SFV and capcom's communication or w/e. It's definitely snowballed.

I mean I'm evem one of that crowd, but even still I see that if Capcom didn't step up and release an Xrd level presentation at least with MvCI people would have shit on them regardless. They had no chance. Maybe it will change when we see how the game actually is...if it's good.
 

Skilletor

Member
What you said in the first paragraph was very true, and combining the fact that SFV released very barebones as opposed to its competitors at the time, it did not help their product at all. That being said, I could also use the same logic for NRS. A lot of people don't like he fact they recycle the same bad animations, similar gameplay with only a new skin, every other game, so we could argue it's also "old" in my opinion. This is why it's a massive shame for Capcom, as I know if they only had a couple solid casual modes it would have been fine. Oh well, they need to hold that L.

You could, but for the arguments of sales performance, it obviously doesn't matter. Casuals may notice funky animations, but it's obviously not a big deal for the market at large.
 

mbpm1

Member
This is what I've been asking myself for the last week and a half. Whenever I pop in here to lurk it seems like SFV is on it's last legs and people are pressing X to pay their respects lol. Don't know what all that porn talk was about though.

This place is slowly turning into r/kappa
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
This is what I've been asking myself for the last week and a half. Whenever I pop in here to lurk it seems like SFV is on it's last legs and people are pressing X to pay their respects lol. Don't know what all that porn talk was about though.

As long as luce is still cracking me up, it's all good.
 

DunpealD

Member
Having a decent grasp of the movement system is so good. It let's you bop people fair and clear. Gundam Versus is like that too, and I can only imagine how angry people are going to be playing that game.

Back at the beginning of Rise of Incarnates, I went on a 50 win streak rampage with a fellow gaffer. I don't think it looked different for other Gundam veteran players. Beginners are going to get brutalized.

Do you guys put any faith into the Super Street Fighter V rumors?

No faith. Just hoping it to be true and not to become worse than the current version.

Bruh stop with the teasing, and tell us what you know already. Can't you see we are dying of thirst.

SFV Season 2 is already dead to me.

They need to bring back the ONE character that can move so many copies of the game, it'll make your head spin.

The greatest character this franchise has ever produced.

Edmond Honda.

You misspelled Sagat.

Even then, you can't downplay how important the way the community feels is to the life of a game. I don't care how much esports money SFV makes or how many viewers it gets on ESPN, hearing both casuals and pros repeatedly talk about how the game isn't fun is bound to sour anyone's experience with it.

I think Daigo already said it with his restaurant analogy. Once a lot of people begin to go ham on it, it will also effect others who are of the different opinion.

Hell if anything, I feel Namco deserves TWICE the shit that Capcpom got for SFV's launch.

SFV was a horrible launch, with a severe lack of content to keep newbies/casuals engaged, incredibly rocky launch and netcode that ultimately disappointed. But that game was clearly rushed out of the gate. It was made and released in... what 1.5 years? You can still make a decent functioning game but then you'd have to pour more money and manpower into it which Capcpom was also lacking. Not saying that this excuses it but Capcpom was lacking in time and money for the game's development which showed. They needed to get the game out there ASAP.

In the case of Namco, they had the advantage of having this game out and making money for them for over 2 years. They clearly weren't lacking for money with how much cash they were making off the arcade scenes, by selling customizations and the many crossover deals they made with other companies. So to actually have things like no rematch, no real settings for lobbies, horrible matchmaking, de-sync issues and general issues with the online coupled with extra input delay on the version that's gonna be the most played?

That shit is inexcusable. Yipee you got a story mode and an arcade/treasure battle mode at launch but what's the freaking point if people can't even play each other online without it being a miserable experience? Especially after Harada said that they delayed the game so that it would be complete. Granted, they have a lot of characters, a lot of stages and the game is incredibly well-balanced. But again, what's the point if the majority of players have such a bad time just playing against each other online.

Well Pokken(rip Wii U not even getting DLC chars), ARMS and Tekken 7 escaped with a flesh wound in comparison.
But tbh., I think SFV had it coming with that kind of launch. Though there is some weird hate focused on it.

There are quite some baffling decisions in Tekken 7. Tekken has always been considered as a "complex" game and they didn't even put a tutorial in. I think even no replays? I love me some Tekken 7, but it's disappointing that it's riddled with a few technical issues and strange decisions.

I can abide the shitty matchmaking to a degree if they just changed the Revenge match to a first-to-two set up (like SFV) and eliminate re-loading everything for the Revenge match (like SFV). It still wouldn't be great but it would be so, so much better.

I'm sure that'll be implemented eventually because Namco seems to be listening to fan feedback.

I think stage gimmicks are an issue in terms of loading time, because they need to be reset and it takes quite some time. When I went to training room to check out some breakable wall combos and ground break combos, I sadly had to experience the excruciating loading times for the gimmick resets.
 

Shadoken

Member
There would hardly be an FGC without sf.

Pretty much , the dumbest notion from other game fans is that they think if SF dies their game will suddenly become popular. When it is in fact the opposite.

SF is at a pretty low point right now given the state of the game , if your favorite fighting game is still not able to increase tourney numbers and playerbase , then maybe ppl playing SF isnt the problem.
 
Excuse me? How the community feels about SFV is the most negative thing about it? Not the bridge it burned last year with casuals during it's launch? Not the shit servers for a year? Not the madness inducing 50/50 gameplay? Not the input lag?

Out of all of that, you say the community's feelings are the worse thing surrounding the game? lol

50/50s have always been a part of SF. SF4 had tons of 50/50 setups yet there wasn't a peep about that shit being brought up the way it does now. Everything about the game's faults get overblown to the point where it just makes you hate yourself for even liking it. Its easily the FGC's biggest whipping post, and I am personally convinced that many pockets of the FGC would rather celebrate the game's demise (for a variety of reasons I don't wanna get into right now) over Capcom announcing tomorrow "We heard your cries. We are flipping the switch & everything wrong with the game will be fixed tomorrow."

Shit servers for a year? I'm sorry, but i've played almost all online fighters released in the last year, and i'd probably put SFV in the top 3, easily. I see this complaint continually being brought up but I just keep shrugging my shoulders to it cause its been working absolutely great on my end. Yes, there is server maintenance & downtime & outages when patches do launch which spikes the online userbase up for a day or so, but the moment they either spin up more servers to handle the stress or the numbers taper off a little? It works fine. And thats even before the CFN update, which definitely increased the speed by which I get matched up with opponents.

Yeah, SFV burned a bridge with casuals, there is no defense that the game didn't launch with an Arcade mode & intros + endings to them. Personally, it launching with a cinematic mode would've have done anything - thats not why people play SF nor is SF lore in any way engaging enough to make a campaign around. But we're wayyyyy past the point of the casual part of this discussion anyway - its not the first 6 months of release; this is the point where the competitive scene of the game is the overwhelming majority of users still engaging with the product. Happens with every fighting game release - having this plethora of casuals buying the game last February wouldn't change what is going on within the community today.

And at this point, the input lag is once again, fine. Its like, 1.5 frames off from SF4, but its a game built around the higher input delay regardless. Games like Tekken & Marvel have significantly higher input delays then SFV & no one is complaining in T7's case. These are just justifications to continually hate & shit on the title.

The community's feelings are absolutely the worst part about SFV, because it makes trying to engage with the community when anything related to SFV is occurring insufferable. I love the game. Its not a perfect game; there are gameplay issues (there should be a V-Canceling mechanic in the game) that should be fixed up, but it fixed all of my issues with SF4 that made me stop playing that game. And even though I didn't like playing SF4, I still watched it & engaged with the community and rooted for its success every step of the way. There are segments of the community actively trying to make the same thing impossible for SFV.
 

Edzi

Member
I wonder if people know that the input delay is 5.3 something frames now. It should be lowered definitely, though.

Pretty sure it's still around 6.5, and no, I wouldn't expect most people to know. Remember how long gootecks and some pro players kept bitching about 8 frames even after the patch? People don't care enough to be accurate in their hate.
 

JusDoIt

Member
Pretty sure it's still around 6.5, and no, I wouldn't expect most people to know. Remember how long gootecks and some pro players kept bitching about 8 frames even after the patch? People don't care enough to be accurate in their hate.

Noodalls puts it at 5.3 frames. Display Lag's latest tests put it at 6 frames. Who said it's 6.5 frames?
 
Pretty sure it's still around 6.5, and no, I wouldn't expect most people to know. Remember how long gootecks and some pro players kept bitching about 8 frames even after the patch? People don't care enough to be accurate in their hate.

Yeah a more recent one had it down to 5 something tho. The same one that people rely on for Tekken IIRC.

Dunno, that's what I remember hearing after they reduced it.

DisplayLag had a test after a patch and it was down to 6.5 then. So somebody is wrong and we need more testing, regardless.
 
I just think that the mainstream negative reception to SF5 ended up creating a toxic environment that eventually permeated into the diehard audience. I've seen a lot of mountains from molehills in regards to SF5 that get brushed off elsewhere, and some of it actually comes off as insane, but with how hot it landed and how basic casual elements were missing made for a foundation for negativity to flourish.
 

HardRojo

Member
Still free to Bisons (like I seriously cannot do shit, at all, I'm Omega free to them) and to Ken's CC st.HP and st.HK. Game hasn't changed for me at all.
Edit: And since when are Juri's normals so good? Like, I'm legit scared of pressing anything against her and I'm freaking Urien!
 

JusDoIt

Member
DisplayLag had a test after a patch and it was down to 6.5 then. So somebody is wrong and we need more testing, regardless.

DisplayLag has SFV down to 6 frames even now:

https://displaylag.com/video-game-input-lag-database/

The two numbers for SFV's lag now are DL's 6 frames and Noodalls (the source that first reported Tekken's 7 frames of lag) 5.3 frames. SFV is within less than a frame of where Injustice 2 and KOFXIV are at based on all the data we got, and I don't hear nobody complaining about the lag in those games.
 

Kashiwaba

Member
DisplayLag has SFV down to 6 frames even now:

https://displaylag.com/video-game-input-lag-database/

The two numbers for SFV's lag now are DL's 6 frames and Noodalls (the source that first reported Tekken's 7 frames of lag) 5.3 frames. SFV is within less than a frame of where Injustice 2 and KOFXIV are at based on all the data we got, and I don't hear nobody complaining about the lag in those games.

People complain about Capcom only.
 
People complain about Capcom only.

It doesn't help that people don't know what they are talking about.

For example, James Chen excused the higher input delay in Tekken, because moves were slower in that game, but complained about SFV because the he believed that the input delay in that game made it impossible to react to moves like Urien's EX Chariot Tackle.

EX Chariot Tackle is a fast-moving attack with a startup of only 7 frames, or ~117 ms. That is much faster than it takes humans to react to complex visual stimuli, even at the low end. It's designed so that you wont be able to react in time, even if there was 0 input delay.
 
Ucchedavāda;241409982 said:
For example, James Chen excused the higher input delay in Tekken, because moves were slower in that game, but complained about SFV because the he believed that the input delay in that game made it impossible to react to moves like Urien's EX Chariot Tackle.

EX Chariot Tackle is a fast-moving attack with a startup of only 7 frames, or ~117 ms. That is much faster than it takes humans to react to complex visual stimuli, even at the low end. It's designed so that you wont be able to react in time, even if there was 0 input delay.
This lol.

It doesn't matter if they reduce the input lag to 0.5 frames, you're still not gonna react to that EX chariot tackle, that EX sonic boom (at close range) unless you block preemptively or that EX bullhead. These moves are all designed to be difficult to react to and THAT's the problem. This is why I think that V-Trigger Necalli is the most bullshit thing in the game with his nigh-unreactable dashes.
 

Zackat

Member
Blizzard making a fighting game is a dream. They could just set it in the Nexus like HotS. So many characters. That would be one hell of a balancing act though.

Make it 3v3. Lawd
 

Numb

Member
We. Need. A. JoJo's. Fighting. Game. Made. By. Arcsys.

And we need it now.


David-Icke-Satanic-Rituals-Video.jpg


Will work one day
 

Beil

Member
All the big anime, manga and comic book IP owners should currently be lining up round the block to get ArcSys to make their next game based on that engine.
 

Pompadour

Member
All the big anime, manga and comic book IP owners should currently be lining up round the block to get ArcSys to make their next game based on that engine.

Depends on how well it sells. It looks gorgeous and I would want them to do Jojo but that doesn't automatically mean it'll sell better than those Naruto or DBZ games with giant rosters.
 

Kashiwaba

Member
I actually want a HxH fighting game this franchise needs some love and i can see the gameplay being deep and many different styles.
 

nded

Member
Sometimes I feel like everyone's dream fighting games could become reality and the competitive scenes for all of them would still inevitably wither and die because people can't stop talking about Street Fighter.
 
you know you goofed when even Valle is down on SFV lmao

Or Japan loosing every major in the US. Was Momochi even at CEO?

Ucchedavāda;241409982 said:
It doesn't help that people don't know what they are talking about.

For example, James Chen excused the higher input delay in Tekken, because moves were slower in that game, but complained about SFV because the he believed that the input delay in that game made it impossible to react to moves like Urien's EX Chariot Tackle.

EX Chariot Tackle is a fast-moving attack with a startup of only 7 frames, or ~117 ms. That is much faster than it takes humans to react to complex visual stimuli, even at the low end. It's designed so that you wont be able to react in time, even if there was 0 input delay.

You can't even preemptively jump without getting hit by EX Tackle. And it doesn't help the only defense is fireballs when you can't poke him with how stupid the priory the move has.



At least in Tekken 7, I have the ability to punish moves. Just whiffing jab is enough to get blown up.
 

Sayad

Member
Ucchedavāda;241409982 said:
It doesn't help that people don't know what they are talking about.

For example, James Chen excused the higher input delay in Tekken, because moves were slower in that game, but complained about SFV because the he believed that the input delay in that game made it impossible to react to moves like Urien's EX Chariot Tackle.

EX Chariot Tackle is a fast-moving attack with a startup of only 7 frames, or ~117 ms. That is much faster than it takes humans to react to complex visual stimuli, even at the low end. It's designed so that you wont be able to react in time, even if there was 0 input delay.
Exactly, James Chen's excuse is such a stupid logic, the things you're meant to react to in Tekken or SF are pretty much the same, 18~19 to early 20s overheads vs the same for react-able lows in Tekken, you're not going to react to Tekken's "slow ass" normals because they're 10 or 12 frames! I'd actually argue less lag is more important in Tekken due to how much more the game depend on whiff punishing on reaction as opposed to whiff punishing with reads/predictions in 2D fighters.
 
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