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Street Fighter V |OTVIII| New Delayed Generation - Controversial Inputs

V

Village

Member
lucebuce12 said:
That shit is inexcusable. Yipee you got a story mode and an arcade/treasure battle mode at launch but what's the freaking point if people can't even play each other online without it being a miserable experience?
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Tekken is a fun game with a story mode single player modes and customization options
Injustice is a fun game with a story mode single player modes and customization options.

And launched with all those things

Most people want fighting games to be fun single player experiences they can pick up when they wanna fuck around and do some single player stuff, and if they engage with the online is here or there. So that's the point.

SF didn't have any of those things at launch, and people don't give a shit about SF.

That's it and that's all really.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Village said:
Most people want fighting games to be fun single player experiences they can pick up when they wanna fuck around and do some single player stuff, and if they engage with the online is here or there. So that's the point.
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giphy.gif
 
E

Edzi

Member
lucebuce12 said:
Hell if anything, I feel Namco deserves TWICE the shit that Capcpom got for SFV's launch.

SFV was a horrible launch, with a severe lack of content to keep newbies/casuals engaged, incredibly rocky launch and netcode that ultimately disappointed. But that game was clearly rushed out of the gate. It was made and released in... what 1.5 years? You can still make a decent functioning game but then you'd have to pour more money and manpower into it which Capcpom was also lacking. Not saying that this excuses it but Capcpom was lacking in time and money for the game's development which showed. They needed to get the game out there ASAP.

In the case of Namco, they had the advantage of having this game out and making money for them for over 2 years. They clearly weren't lacking for money with how much cash they were making off the arcade scenes, by selling customizations and the many crossover deals they made with other companies. So to actually have things like no rematch, no real settings for lobbies, horrible matchmaking, de-sync issues and general issues with the online coupled with extra input delay on the version that's gonna be the most played?

That shit is inexcusable. Yipee you got a story mode and an arcade/treasure battle mode at launch but what's the freaking point if people can't even play each other online without it being a miserable experience? Especially after Harada said that they delayed the game so that it would be complete. Granted, they have a lot of characters, a lot of stages and the game is incredibly well-balanced. But again, what's the point if the majority of players have such a bad time just playing against each other online.
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I said this when the game launched, but T7 proved once and for all to me that people in this community just have a Capcom hate boner. It's either blind Capcom hate, or blind Capcom defense, and the people in the middle who criticize the games and genuinely want improvement get drowned out in the middle.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
lucebuce12 said:
Hell if anything, I feel Namco deserves TWICE the shit that Capcpom got for SFV's launch.

SFV was a horrible launch, with a severe lack of content to keep newbies/casuals engaged, incredibly rocky launch and netcode that ultimately disappointed. But that game was clearly rushed out of the gate. It was made and released in... what 1.5 years? You can still make a decent functioning game but then you'd have to pour more money and manpower into it which Capcpom was also lacking. Not saying that this excuses it but Capcpom was lacking in time and money for the game's development which showed. They needed to get the game out there ASAP.

In the case of Namco, they had the advantage of having this game out and making money for them for over 2 years. They clearly weren't lacking for money with how much cash they were making off the arcade scenes, by selling customizations and the many crossover deals they made with other companies. So to actually have things like no rematch, no real settings for lobbies, horrible matchmaking, de-sync issues and general issues with the online coupled with extra input delay on the version that's gonna be the most played?

That shit is inexcusable. Yipee you got a story mode and an arcade/treasure battle mode at launch but what's the freaking point if people can't even play each other online without it being a miserable experience? Especially after Harada said that they delayed the game so that it would be complete. Granted, they have a lot of characters, a lot of stages and the game is incredibly well-balanced. But again, what's the point if the majority of players have such a bad time just playing against each other online.
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I am not disagreeing with you, but I think that the overall difference in attitude towards the two games can be explained by the fact that people who play online tends to be a minority of the player-base (even in primarily competitive games, see for example here).

So a large portion of T7 players could be perfectly happy with the game, or at worst a bit disappointed (I gather that SP modes are worse this time around), even with the poorly functioning online. In the case of SFV, neither group was served at launch, which left a lot of people resenting the game and/or Capcom, and a lot of negativity all around.
 
V

Village

Member
lucebuce12 said:
giphy.gif
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Its why Smash is the most popular fighting game in the world, its emphasizes that. I'm by no means the best fighting game player in the world, but I do play them and some of them i'm ok at. And for most people, being ok is " WHOOOOOOAAAAAAH" fighting games whether its because of being to hard or stigmas don't really have the incentive to get better at them, they just wanna fuck around and do cool shit with the character they like. And that's what fighting games are, doing cool shit with a character you like. Street fighter forgot this, and failed.

The casual audience who will fuck around with your game and play it sometimes and maybe not even finish it , is most of your audience, and I don't mean fighting games, I mean all video games.

There are exceptions like league and overwatch where it entices large groups of people to get good at the game, or try. And I think Esports will make that incentive even more, even for fighting games, it already has in many regards. But outside of things like that, and fanbases where large sections of it are into what they are really into , like a lot of nintendo games like pokemon or fire emblem, or sonic, or dark souls, things like that with these large rabid fanbases. Shits just casual hobby affair.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Ucchedavāda;241343628 said:
I am not disagreeing with you, but I think that the overall difference in attitude towards the two games can be explained by the fact that people who play online tends to be a minority of the player-base (even in primarily competitive games, see for example here).

So a large portion of T7 players could be perfectly happy with the game, or at worst a bit disappointed (I gather that SP modes are worse this time around), even with the poorly functioning online. In the case of SFV, neither group was served at launch, which left a lot of people resenting the game and/or Capcom, and a lot of negativity all around.
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That Demigod example you posted really hit home. I'm the EXACT same way with RTS games. I love them all to death, I've played so damn many. Age of Empires, Rise of Nations, Tiberium games, Red Alert games, Generals, Dune, Dawn of War, World in Conflict (not an RTS but still), Universe at War, Starcraft, Warcraft, Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes.

And in ALL of them I almost exclusively played single player. The campaign, the skirmishes. I really loved Warcraft 3's campaign(s) and Generals: Zero Hour's General's challenge mode the most because they offered so much replayability.

It's honestly scaring me a little bit, because I felt similarly about fighting games uptill EVO 2015, which was my first foray into ACTUAL competitive fighting games. Before then, I just fucked around in training mode and offline modes. Doing cool combos, and trying to learn the AI. Guess I've forgotten my roots :(

Village said:
Its why Smash is the most popular fighting game in the world, its emphasizes that. I'm by no means the best fighting game player in the world, but I do play them and some of them i'm ok at. And for most people, being ok is " WHOOOOOOAAAAAAH" fighting games whether its because of being to hard or stigmas don't really have the incentive to get better at them, they just wanna fuck around and do cool shit with the character they like. And that's what fighting games are, doing cool shit with a character you like. Street fighter forgot this, and failed.

The casual audience who will fuck around with your game and play it sometimes and maybe not even finish it , is most of your audience, and I don't mean fighting games, I mean all video games.

There are exceptions like league and overwatch where it entices large groups of people to get good at the game, or try. And I think Esports will make that incentive even more, even for fighting games, it already has in many regards. But outside of things like that, and fanbases where large sections of it are into what they are really into , like a lot of nintendo games like pokemon or fire emblem, or sonic, or dark souls, things like that with these large rabid fanbases. Shits just casual hobby affair.
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It's just sad that this has to come at the cost of the players who have always been passionate about your games, who sink hundreds if not thousands of hours into the game. The ones who keep playing, the ones who buy your DLC, cosmetic or otherwise, to help support the game.

Sigh, I guess it's a catch-22 when you have a limited budget. I've got nothing against more offline content because I get that that helps sell the game but I just wish they would give equal priority to making the game as functional as possible.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Edzi said:
I said this when the game launched, but T7 proved once and for all to me that people in this community just have a Capcom hate boner. It's either blind Capcom hate, or blind Capcom defense, and the people in the middle who criticize the games and genuinely want improvement get drowned out in the middle.
Click to expand...

It's really hard to give a detailed, balanced account of the state of Capcom or the game when the majority of the arguments being made are being made by people with a superficial understanding of these games or the problems within.

So I've fallen into defense mode a bit, I guess.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
People just fell slighted by capcom for various reasons for so long that it's a runaway train at this point. Like mvci is a no win situation for them.
 
V

Village

Member
lucebuce12 said:
It's just sad that this has to come at the cost of the players who have always been passionate about your games, who sink hundreds if not thousands of hours into the game. The ones who keep playing, the ones who buy your DLC, cosmetic or otherwise, to help support the game.

Sigh, I guess it's a catch-22 when you have a limited budget.
Click to expand...

It doesn't really have to, and it doesn't come at the cost of that.

Both Tekken and Injustice seem to have thriving communities buying shit from them. There are other reasons why some folks aren't into SFV and it isn't just content, and content is still a big part of it. Another big reason, is a lot of people just don't like how the plays, I do I defend it. But there are a large portion of people who picked up SFV and weren't into it, and now they have options... and play other games. That not only play more interesting to them, also has the bonus of all this single player shit into it. Then there'es limited roster, and favorites ( SF2 cast for a great deal of people ) not on the roster.

also there is visual presentation, which I think both Tekken and Injustice have over SF which was a criticism from SFV in the beginning, I don't mean fidelity I mean how those games present themselves. But that's a very long conversation, that while we could get into, is very long and I don't want to drop that on you right now. A lot of talk about visual mechanics.

As for functional, welp you are a fighting game serious player. You are going to wait for the online to be better, and then you will play it. And while a lot of casual players are with various FPS"s and shit like that that have shit launches now have experience with such things, a lot of them are here for the single player and local stuff, so they got shit to occupy their time and they might not even be here for that.

Years of MMO launches , and FPS launches and shit like that, especially recently with the storm blood fuckery, have trained a lot of people on the idea of the servers are going to be fucked for the first bit. For better and for worse.

mbpm1 said:
People just fell slighted by capcom for various reasons for so long that it's a runaway train at this point. Like mvci is a no win situation for them.
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If marvel infinite was a more visual interesting fighting game, whos shit roster didn't leak out there would be more hype for it.

Visual presentation, and Visual fidelity is mui importante. And will help sell your game.

Ask Dragon Ball Fighters Z
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
TheSpoiler said:
Hearing about your daughter doing porn is one thing but who would be watching that shit though?
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Uhhhhhhhh

Let's change the topic, I really felt that the reason SFV's story mode had so little in terms of "big" scenes where bombastic shit happened was because it was almost all being rendered in-game. NRS's story mode and Tekken 7's story mode can do such hype stuff because most of the intense and hype shit is a pre-rendered video.

I really don't know why SFV's story mode didn't take this route.
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
lucebuce12 said:
Uhhhhhhhh

Let's change the topic, I really felt that the reason SFV's story mode had so little in terms of "big" scenes where bombastic shit happened was because it was almost all being rendered in-game. NRS's story mode and Tekken 7's story mode can do such hype stuff because most of the intense and hype shit is a pre-rendered video.

I really don't know why SFV's story mode didn't take this route.
Click to expand...

I think you know the reason.
Not enough cash money
 
K

Kashiwaba

Member
lucebuce12 said:
Uhhhhhhhh

Let's change the topic, I really felt that the reason SFV's story mode had so little in terms of "big" scenes where bombastic shit happened was because it was almost all being rendered in-game. NRS's story mode and Tekken 7's story mode can do such hype stuff because most of the intense and hype shit is a pre-rendered video.

I really don't know why SFV's story mode didn't take this route.
Click to expand...

Do i have to remind everyone that capcom is broke?
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
ColonialHawk said:
I think you know the reason.
Not enough cash money
Click to expand...

Kashiwaba said:
Do i have to remind everyone that capcom is broke?
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I get that Capcpom put less money into SFV than my Grandmother did into buying supplies for her knitting but this can't really be a money issue?

Just have the same things that you have now, only Just YANK up the particle usage and add a bit more background effects and destruction. Like that scene in the end where Ryu charges up a fireball with those awesome particle effects? Just go ham and have half the place just lighting up with particles.

I'm not so knowledgeable about this but I don't think this would have cost a lot more time/money than what they already put into it?
 
S

SneakersSO

Member
mbpm1 said:
People just fell slighted by capcom for various reasons for so long that it's a runaway train at this point. Like mvci is a no win situation for them.
Click to expand...

Lots of games are falling victim. Its just en vogue to overemphasis Capcom's shortcomings, despite the fact that Capcom is honestly not too far off the mark. What's worse is that many within the FGC are being rewarded with positive attention for how hard they strike out against Capcom & SFV in particular.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind anyone who makes the assertion that SFV is an awful/shittier/dumpster fire of a game. When I see BornFree give F.Champ a platform to espouse that shit that he does particularly because he knows the r/kappa crowd loves hearing it, I see just how far we've come as a community in turning against Capcom.

And whenever a sane take on all this tries to come up, it just results in the community lashing out at them. Like, personally, I have been severely burned on IJ2's laughable gameplay balancing (zzzzzzzzzzoning) and Tekken 7's inconsistent level of quality, yet its perfectly okay for them cause lol Capcom.
 
V

Village

Member
Man I wish SFV had more invovled character stuff, that shit makes me so hype in injustice

Red Hood:" Joker you son of Bitch!"
Joker:" Here to haunt your every Dream"
Red Hood:" I ain't afraid of no ghost"
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As for over the top criticism. I agree I don't think I can sfv is a dumpster fire, its a good game that plays fine. I do think there were, and still are a great deal of valid criticms that are lodged at the game. And I do also feel like SFV does not exist in a vacuum and there are better options for fighters and people are taking advantage of that. I don't thnk everything F champ said is inaccurate statement, but I feel as though F champ and others are like " Fuck this game" and its not even worth all that.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
I think there's a lot of valid points in what pros say, especially FChamp, but one thing I don't like is when players speak for other players. Like he blames the game for Tokido losing, but Tokido really doesn't. Same thing with him saying Tokido doesn't look diverse compared to other Akumas when Tokido is flat out playing flashier than everyone else.

SFV has a ton of issues but man let people talk. Shit, in BornFree's interviews, some players like Bonchan will have quibbles with the game's balance and shit, but overall still like it. Yet that singular part gets picked out and repeated. There's no context.

Hell, even Valle was talking about how limited SFV was and how he and the community expected more. I saw a clip of that, but didn't see the end part about how he and the community just want the best for SFV, and how additional things like triggers could really help out.

It's hard to have a conversation about fixing this game when it devolves into memes.

On the topic of SFV's story mode, it didn't feel as bombastic not due to fancy cutscenes, but the story. SFV didn't really have big events like IJ2 and Tekken, one game of which has established characters and the other was reaching a huge conclusion (even if it was handled like shit IMO)
 
V

Village

Member
SneakersSO said:
And whenever a sane take on all this tries to come up, it just results in the community lashing out at them. Like, personally, I have been severely burned on IJ2's laughable gameplay balancing (zzzzzzzzzzoning) and Tekken 7's inconsistent level of quality, yet its perfectly okay for them cause lol Capcom.
Click to expand...

Its ok with them because they like playing the game. It isn't just lol capcom, the reason that fchamp was saying at that is because its clear he doesn't enjoy playing the game. Tekken 7 and Injustice don't get that , because for both casual and hardcore they are for most people enjoyable games. With single player content to appease the more casual and video gamey audience and fun multiplayer for hard core. I mentioned this before, but its seems people just don't enjoy how SFV plays, like tekken internet issues aside people are loosing their damn minds over how fun tekken 7 is. It makes me happy, I love tekken. I also love SF, but its clear they don't enjoy that game.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Some pro-players are probably stronger in their opinion because SF5 is literally a job to them, and it's not something they're particularly enjoying. I don't think it's "just a bad game" like F Champ, but I also don't mind answering the phone every once in awhile when somebody calls. I have friends who work call centers who refuse to answer the phone and just communicate through texts.

And honestly, even if I ultimately enjoy the game (bored of it, but still like it), it's good for Capcom to hear this kind of stuff because it's the only way things will change.
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
capcom obv isn't broke.
You don't really need a 'cgi' cutscene to do cool shit, you can do all of it in real-time, especially with ue4.
The choice for pre-rendered video in an experience That's supposed to be seamless is generally for performance reasons; the hardware being targeted can't handle the extra fidelty without significant framedrops.

This becomes apparent in a pc version were the pre-rendered stuff actually looks worse than real-time, because it was rendered at console fidelity to give that illusion of it being seamless.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
SFV is also stupidly stressful. It's for aggression sessions, and those reared up on more defensive options have a hard time getting used to all that noise.

And it's not like Tekken players don't have issues either. Saint and JDCR were just talking about the input lag affecting their practice online. And new Tekken players are going to hit a hard wall when they run into people who have more legacy experience than them. That's just the nature of the game, and like any fighting game, you gotta jump over that hurdle. Tekken gets real fucking brutal and as the months go by, people are going to notice. I don't mean that in a bad way, at all. Tekken just takes tons of practice.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
TheSpoiler said:
SFV is also stupidly stressful. It's for aggression sessions, and those reared up on more defensive options have a hard time getting used to all that noise.

And it's not like Tekken players don't have issues either. Saint and JDCR were just talking about the input lag affecting their practice online. And new Tekken players are going to hit a hard wall when they run into people who have more legacy experience than them. That's just the nature of the game, and like any fighting game, you gotta jump over that hurdle. Tekken gets real fucking brutal and as the months go by, people are going to notice. I don't mean that in a bad way, at all. Tekken just takes tons of practice.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty garbage at Tekken but felt like I was smurfing all the new players online. It was really bad, lol.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
Skilletor said:
I'm pretty garbage at Tekken but felt like I was smurfing all the new players online. It was really bad, lol.
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Having a decent grasp of the movement system is so good. It let's you bop people fair and clear. Gundam Versus is like that too, and I can only imagine how angry people are going to be playing that game.

DR2K said:
What did you mother say when she saw you eating your own ass?
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Woof, swing and miss. Just take that L fam. You know you were wrong for that one.

I eat alone.
 
K

Kashiwaba

Member
Skilletor said:
I'm pretty garbage at Tekken but felt like I was smurfing all the new players online. It was really bad, lol.
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I played few matches online (thanks to the crappy online on ps4) but so far it seems like I'm breezing through the early dan ranks despite the fact that I never played tekken game seriously before and the last one i played more than Few hours was Tekken 5.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
Oh, great.
Looks like I'm stuck behind server connections in SFV due to my new ISP, since they use CGN unless you ask them to assign you an IPv4 address. So no SFV for me, until I get that sorted out with them.
 
C

ColonialHawk

Member
lucebuce12 said:
I get that Capcpom put less money into SFV than my Grandmother did into buying supplies for her knitting but this can't really be a money issue?

Just have the same things that you have now, only Just YANK up the particle usage and add a bit more background effects and destruction. Like that scene in the end where Ryu charges up a fireball with those awesome particle effects? Just go ham and have half the place just lighting up with particles.

I'm not so knowledgeable about this but I don't think this would have cost a lot more time/money than what they already put into it?
Click to expand...

Idk. I feel like its money issues. The budget probably wasn't big enough to allow for ample time work on developing the story mode.

Edit: I think theres some truth to the rumors. Its been ~2 years so Im expecting in traditional SF fashion for there to be a big update.
 
T

TheSpoiler

Member
HiResDes said:
Do you guys put any faith into the Super Street Fighter V rumors?
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Not the rumors themselves but I can see it happening. It's just good guesswork at this point.

Personally I think that content should come now, not later, but whatever.

Edit: WSO is coming on soon. Hopefully we get a goddamn hint.
 
U

Ucchedavāda

Member
HiResDes said:
Do you guys put any faith into the Super Street Fighter V rumors?
Click to expand...

No, not at all.
Too many people are throwing bullshit around, on top of whatever real leaks are happening, so I'll believe it when I see it.

It could be nice, though, and I well could see Capcom doing a soft relaunch in the future.
 
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