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Street Fighter X Tekken |OT| Truly, truly outrageous~

G

GeoNeo

I disagree.
Chittagong said:
Thanks for taking the time for the explanations, it really helps. Indeed it seems I need to do the Shoryuken motion immediately after hitting the first LP so that I can finish the Shoryuken by pressing LP again before the narrow few frame window closes. I did not realize such accuracy was within the bounds of human perception and hand coordination, so I was stunned to notice I could do it quite a few times, even if not consistently yet.

What a great learning challenge. I'll start to put a few hours a day to training mode and start to sharpen my skills. Guide sounds good if it introduces the very basics - wonder if I can get a digital version for ipad.

BTW - learned I can do Shoryuken by pressing down-fwd twice then LP, instead of the Z movement. It's still not easy though for me yet to time it after the LP :D
Click to expand...

That is not really narrow window though. It is pretty simple in grand scheme of things been around since the early fighters. It just takes time and knowledge to improve. So don't feel down everyone went through it be it if SF2 was their first fighter they took seriously (ie actually playing comp and learning to improve and build muscle memory for advance shit) or SF4.

This is why for real true 1 frame heavy combos people get pissed off with laggy displays.

Anyhow, long way to say, I enjoy what SFxT is trying to do, but I'm running into the same barriers as always. I understand the basics, but learning the timings and distancings and executions for everything gets to be a bit much.
Click to expand...

Turn on the easy input / cancel gems. Play that way. If you are hitting walls so early in fighters and don't want (or can) put in as much effort or time. :)

Learning these things are some of the most fun one can have with fighters and what sets them apart from other genre of games which are really not even close to as demanding.
 
G

Georgious

Banned
What's the difference between a link and a cancel? The link just continues the combo, and the cancel interrupts to start another move? I'm not sure what the differences in results are..
 
T

theowne

Member
Georgious said:
What's the difference between a link and a cancel? The link just continues the combo, and the cancel interrupts to start another move? I'm not sure what the differences in results are..
Click to expand...

A link is when you wait till the first move finishes the animation then hit the next move (but if you wait too long, the opponent will recover and ruin your combo).
A cancel is a special case where you can interrupt the animation of the first move to go straight into the second. Timing is much easier.
 
M

mollipen

Member
conman said:
I'm with you, man. I play most fighting game releases as they come out, but I never do more than basic moves and a few specials. There's a point (usually at about 15-20 hours) where I realize I've hit a brick wall in my skills. And it always comes down to figuring out what the hell to do next and in what situation. Timing combos/cancels just right seems to take so much practice that I usually give up and just move onto the next game. That's why I really got into BlazBlue for a while (much easier to pull off combos), but then that game also got seriously crazy after a certain point. And MvC3 never appealed to me because too many characters just seemed "same-y."
Click to expand...

I was that way for a long, long time, and then one day I finally decided that I was going to sit down and actually learn how to get deep into a fighting game. I decided to do that with Street Fighter IV, and for me, the first step in that was committing to one character. I think that, when you're a more casual player, there's this feeling of having to play a lot of different characters, because casual players will often feel like fighting the same character over and over is boring.

So, that was the first step. The next step was going back and really re-learning the basics. Standard attacks, how to properly block, getting better at reading situations. I think another fault of casual players is that burning desire to always be on the offensive—especially in terms of continually trying to do jump-in attacks. I had to train myself to get out of that mindset, and be better about having a proper balance of offense and defense.

After that, a lot of going online, watching YouTube videos, and seeing how other people play my character. Calming down when playing, and being less worried about winning and more worried about learning something from the match.

I still don't consider myself to be super good, but I'm now far beyond where I was before. I can actually go online and legitimately win sometimes in matches that are a level beyond that casual battles I used to be content with.
 
G

Georgious

Banned
theowne said:
A link is when you wait till the first move finishes the animation then hit the next move (but if you wait too long, the opponent will recover and ruin your combo).
A cancel is a special case where you can interrupt the animation of the first move to go straight into the second. Timing is much easier.
Click to expand...

ihearthawthats said:
the strategy guide has a pretty decent glossary, but if you don't have that then try here: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Glossary
Click to expand...

I appreciate the replies - thanks
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
Georgious said:
What's the difference between a link and a cancel? The link just continues the combo, and the cancel interrupts to start another move? I'm not sure what the differences in results are..
Click to expand...

Cancels are when you interrupt an attack's animation (usually recovery) with another move. The most simple example is say a standing heavy punch into a fireball. You do the standing heavy punch, then do the fireball motion input in it's recovery. It skips the entire recovery frames and goes straight into the fireball causing a 2 hit combo. Not all moves are cancelable. Say Ryu's Heavy Punch is cancelable, but Yoshimitsu's is not. Cancel-able combos are probably the simpliest combo in the game (or chain combos I guess).

Links are by-products of the animation system of the game, and aren't actually coded explicitly into the game (like cancels, or chain combos are). They work by finding two moves in such a way that the first one's recovery+second one's startup is less frames than the hitstun your opponent was placed in by the first hit. An example would be Ryu's crouching lp into crouching mp. You do the light punch and it hits your opponent. Your opponent is now in hitstun, and crouching lp gives you +6 frames. Which means you have 6 whole frames you can act that your opponent can't. Now you do crouching medium punch. It comes out in 4 frames. Since your opponent can't act for 6 frames, if you time that medium punch to come out soon as you recovered it'll hit your opponent. Also if you hit light punch then don't wait for recovery and hit medium punch it will chain instead. Since they're so timing dependant they're the hardest type of combo in the game, and usually people use a technique called plinking to help with them.

Now there's also chain combos, which are pre-programmed combos in the game. They are far the easiest type of combo in fighting games. Basically it's when the game predefines certain attacks to cancel into other attacks. In this game say mashing light punch->medium punch->heavy punch is a chain. The light punch comes out, the medium then interupts it's recovery frames and comes out, then the same thing for heavy. Don't get these confused with links. Hits in link combos have to fully recover before the next hit, chain combos hits get cancelled by the following attack. Even though they're easy to do their are several downsides to these in SFxT. First the damage scaling is a lot higher with them, so you get less damage using them than you would using links. Second if you do a chain combo, you're now allowed to cancel any of the hits with a special move unless it's an EX or a super.
 
N

nHDR

Banned
Anyone wanna play some time on XBL? Using Akuma and whoever, going to try Lili, Rufus, Julia, S. Fox, and Yoshimitsu. Maybe Raven.

This game has made me forget completely about SF4 (which I like, I hated that game).
 
M

Mileena

Banned
Xevren said:
He's the man, you're just a hater!

With the way hit stun works you have to alter your time for throws, that goes for everyone. As for ranges, you have to be kissing them for medium/heavy TT's but light and ex have a little range to them. They changed his normals around a little bit. His step kick doesn't have the range it used to, but his cr mp is a really good poke now that really helps him out in the footsie battle. I think he's really good personally, should give him a try.
Click to expand...

or just use stand roundhouse
 
G

Georgious

Banned
Ferrio said:
Even though cancels are easy to do their are several downsides to these in SFxT. First the damage scaling is a lot higher with them, so you get less damage using them than you would using links. Second if you do a chain combo, you're now allowed to cancel any of the hits with a special move unless it's an EX or a super.
Click to expand...

Wow, terrific explanation - thank you. I've been playing fighting games my whole life and never knew the difference. How do you "feel" the difference between combo links and combo (not super, obviously) cancels in-game, though?

Wasn't aware that damage scaling was higher on combo cancels..
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
If you're playing Ryu I don't think you ever need to do combos with really strict timing. Pay no attention to the trial mode combos.

Here's some Ryu shit:

jump in HP or HK > cr.lp linked (linked, not canceled) into cr.MK > *situation specific option*

Option 1: if opponent blocks the jump in, cancel cr.MK into fireball

Option 2: if opponent doesn't block the jump in, cancel the MK into EX Joudan kick, then do a jumping HK right after they hit the wall, then do a dragon punch right as they are about to land. Huge damage.

Option 3: if the opponent doesn't block the jump in, but you have no meter to do EX joudan kick, just finish by canceling the cr.MK into sweep


This is pretty much the main jump-in combo you need to know. You use the first 3 attacks to ascertain whether or not the opponent is blocking. This is called "hit confirming". If you still feel like you don't have enough time to hit-confirm you can add 2 cr.lp's before the cr.mk to give you a little extra time to react and choose the appropriate Option. If the opponent blocks, you finish with fireball (Option 1), because that is "safe", meaning the opponent can't retaliate afterwards during the recovery animation of your moves. Option 2 does the most damage, but you'll need to practice this combo. If there's any combo you practice, make it this one, timing-wise it's not that hard but there's a lot of moves/steps to the combo. Option 3 is easy and leaves the opponent grounded, where you have advantage to continue on the offensive when they get up. To practice this go into training mode and put the cpu on "random block" and go into different options depending on whether the cpu blocked the first attack or not.



For a "punish" (i.e. the opponent whiffs a move and you have a small timeframe to attack them while they're open), I'd just do:

cr.MK xx EX Joudan > jumping HK while they're in the air > Shoryuken right before they land

Which is just the last half of option 2 above. Does great damage. If you don't have any meter, a non-EX joudan will come out and end the combo. You don't even have to pay attention to meter using this as your default punish. Once you get more used to the game, paying attention to meter, etc, there are more advanced options that will be better in certain situations, but getting down that jump in combo with the 3 different options, and getting down that punish will be a great start.

edit: changed combos slightly
 
C

CPS2

Member
Ferrio said:
You do the standing heavy punch, then do the fireball motion input in it's recovery. It skips the entire recovery frames and goes straight into the fireball causing a 2 hit combo.
Click to expand...

You input it during hit-stop. It's a bit confusing to say to input something during recovery and it skips recovery.
 
N

NeoUltima

Member
Interesting experience with the online today. Earlier in the day it was ATROCIOUS beyond belief. Massively choppy and no audio at all.
But the last two hours it has been very good. Audio even in place most of the time. Weird. Might have just been PSN or something earlier. Maybe the netcode isn't as bad as I initially thought.

I must also say I am pleasantly surprised how simple the trophies are compared to SSF4. Don't have to grind out trials or play online with every character. Don't even have to beat Arcade with everyone. :)
 
N

NoizyChild

Member
NeoUltima said:
Interesting experience with the online today. Earlier in the day it was ATROCIOUS beyond belief. Massively choppy and no audio at all.
But the last two hours it has been very good. Audio even in place most of the time. Weird. Might have just been PSN or something earlier. Maybe the netcode isn't as bad as I initially thought.

I must also say I am pleasantly surprised how simple the trophies are compared to SSF4. Don't have to grind out trials or play online with every character. Don't even have to beat Arcade with everyone. :)
Click to expand...

You fought people with good connections.

The better the connection between players, the less the sound drops.

I've even had a match with near-perfect sound.
 
L

LunaticHigh

Member
Been watching Arturo play some vega. I never really liked charge characters except for balrog in SFIV and pretty much always avoided them.

any advice to starting vega up? He just looks like so much fun for some reason.
 
C

conman

Member
shidoshi said:
So, that was the first step. The next step was going back and really re-learning the basics. Standard attacks, how to properly block, getting better at reading situations. I think another fault of casual players is that burning desire to always be on the offensive—especially in terms of continually trying to do jump-in attacks. I had to train myself to get out of that mindset, and be better about having a proper balance of offense and defense.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I spent some time recently playing a bunch of SoulCal5 which taught me the value of basics. It's a lot slower a game with a longer "cooking time" to most techniques, so it's pretty easy to read where an attack is coming. But I do understand conceptually how this all works, it's just that my hands never seem to understand it quite as well as my brain.

Funny thing is is that I've been a practicing martial artist for most of my life, so I really like how well fighting games translate the same basic principles (distancing, balance, reading your opponent, and of course lots and lots of practice). But I just can't ever seem to translate that into virtual skills!
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
Timedog said:
If you're playing Ryu I don't think you ever need to do combos with really strict timing. Pay no attention to the trial mode combos.

Here's some Ryu shit:

(note: xx means cancel)

jump in HP or HK > cr.LK xx cr.MK > *situation specific option*

Option 1: if opponent blocks the jump in, cancel cr.MK into cr.HK (sweep), then cancel HK into fireball

Option 2: if opponent doesn't block the jump in, cancel the MK into EX Joudan kick, then do a jumping HK right after they hit the wall, then do a dragon punch right as they are about to land. Huge damage.

Option 3: if the opponent doesn't block the jump in, but you have no meter to do EX joudan kick, just finish with sweep


This is pretty much the main jump-in combo you need to know. You use the first 3 attacks to ascertain whether or not the opponent is blocking. This is called "hit confirming". If the opponent blocks, you finish with sweep into fireball (Option 1), because that is "safe", meaning the opponent can't retaliate afterwards during the recovery animation of your moves. Option 2 does the most damage, but you'll need to practice this combo. If there's any combo you practice, make it this one, timing-wise it's not that hard but there's a lot of moves/steps to the combo. Option 3 is easy and leaves the opponent grounded, where you have advantage to continue on the offensive when they get up. To practice this go into training mode and put the cpu on "random block" and go into different options depending on whether the cpu blocked the first attack or not.

.
Click to expand...

EX Joudan is actually safer than fireball. HK joudan unpunishable too, and leaves you at advantage (though not sure if it comes out in time in a block string, haven't played ryu in SFxT).
 
F

FormallyFamicom

Member
NeoUltima said:
I must also say I am pleasantly surprised how simple the trophies are compared to SSF4. Don't have to grind out trials or play online with every character. Don't even have to beat Arcade with everyone. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, you just have to complete all of those horrible Missions, grind out 300 Pandora finishes, 300 Cross Rush finishes, etc. Plenty of terrible trophies/achievements in this game.
 
G

Georgious

Banned
Timedog said:
If you're playing Ryu I don't think you ever need to do combos with really strict timing. Pay no attention to the trial mode combos.

Here's some Ryu shit:

(note: xx means cancel)

jump in HP or HK > cr.LK xx cr.MK > *situation specific option*

Option 1: if opponent blocks the jump in, cancel cr.MK into cr.HK (sweep), then cancel HK into fireball

Option 2: if opponent doesn't block the jump in, cancel the MK into EX Joudan kick, then do a jumping HK right after they hit the wall, then do a dragon punch right as they are about to land. Huge damage.

Option 3: if the opponent doesn't block the jump in, but you have no meter to do EX joudan kick, just finish with sweep


This is pretty much the main jump-in combo you need to know. You use the first 3 attacks to ascertain whether or not the opponent is blocking. This is called "hit confirming". If the opponent blocks, you finish with sweep into fireball (Option 1), because that is "safe", meaning the opponent can't retaliate afterwards during the recovery animation of your moves. Option 2 does the most damage, but you'll need to practice this combo. If there's any combo you practice, make it this one, timing-wise it's not that hard but there's a lot of moves/steps to the combo. Option 3 is easy and leaves the opponent grounded, where you have advantage to continue on the offensive when they get up. To practice this go into training mode and put the cpu on "random block" and go into different options depending on whether the cpu blocked the first attack or not.



For a "punish" (i.e. the opponent whiffs a move and you have a small timeframe to attack them while they're open), I'd just do:

cr.MK xx EX Joudan > jumping HK while they're in the air > Shoryuken right before they land

Which is just the last half of option 2 above. Does great damage. If you don't have any meter, a non-EX joudan will come out and end the combo. You don't even have to pay attention to meter using this as your default punish. Once you get more used to the game, paying attention to meter, etc, there are more advanced options that will be better in certain situations, but getting down that jump in combo with the 3 different options, and getting down that punish will be a great start.
Click to expand...

Wow, very nice BnB options for Ryu. I usually don't play with intentionally preempted techniques other than a few combos and on-the-fly reaction. I'll definitely check these out - thanks!
 
N

NeoUltima

Member
NoizyChild said:
You fought people with good connections.

The better the connection between players, the less the sound drops.

I've even had a match with near-perfect sound.
Click to expand...

The connection bars were consistent all day though. It would be a pretty big coincidence that all the good and bad connections were segregated. If it wasn't PSN, it could have been my own connection though (doubt it).
 
S

Smo21

Member
Man Law is just so fun to play. He has some weaknesses but once you land a combo you feel so G. Still working in a second char. Gonna try Juri or my sf4 main ibuki.
 
G

goldensun

Member
West Coast XBL (or anyone with a godlike connection) players please add me for casuals!

g0lden 5un (the o is a 0 and s is a 5).

I've been running Guile/Raven.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Ferrio said:
EX Joudan is actually safer than fireball. HK joudan unpunishable too, and leaves you at advantage (though not sure if it comes out in time in a block string, haven't played ryu in SFxT).
Click to expand...

If you're talking about Option 1, then EX Joudan is a waste of meter just to be a little more safe IMO, and HK Joudan wouldn't come out because of the lk xx mk cancel.
 
A

AAK

Member
Anyone know who they chose to beat Challenge 13? The one where you have to survive for 60s? Trying Dhalsim and Vega using their teleports and wall jumps.. but it's still kicking my ass :(
 
Nose Master

Nose Master

Member
Timedog said:
Okay seriously, I can do a super fast cancel (like canceling during active frames) of lp xx srk or I can do a link, but somewhere in the middle (I think maybe during recovery frames) I can't get it to cancel....ever. It's like recovery frames are eating the inputs or something?? Anyone else care to try this out really quick in training mode, slowly modulating your input speed from an incredibly fast cancel down to a link.

At a certain medium speed, even with proper inputs (inputs turned on), srk doesn't come out. I feel like it's not just me being crazy because the guy above said the same thing, and I was having trouble with lk > lp xx srk in SF4 a long time ago until RiceEater told me to do it was a link, which is why I was certain it was a link in SF4 too.
Click to expand...

Normals have a certain amount of cancellable frames, don't they? I imagine that window would be pretty small for a jab/short (like... 2 frames), and if you don't hit that window you have to wait fully until after recovery (like, 6?)
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Nose Master said:
Normals have a certain amount of cancellable frames, don't they? I imagine that window would be pretty small for a jab/short (like... 2 frames), and if you don't hit that window you have to wait fully until after recovery (like, 6?)
Click to expand...

Ooooh, this would make sense of why I couldn't get SRK to come out. Thanks dude!
 
A

AAK

Member
Man... Mission 13 is really making me hate Guile and Law! How are you supposed to avoid them for 60 seconds while they have regenerating meter. You can't kill them, but if you touch them with anything fierce they die making you fail the mission... and yet you take in chip damage throughout where if you want to inflict damage to them to get the advantage in HP, they die.

And of coarse they always start with the cross assault :(
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Why the fuck is this game so good?

Oh and Tek did you learn anything from watching my shitty julia at all? T.T I'm pretty inconsistent right now with some stuff but I already got her gameplan down for the most part.
 
V

vixlar

Member
Another kind of buffering (I think) is when you press a button, keep it pressed, do the movement and release the button.

So in this case you can combine both buffers to do the combo: forward, down, press and keep lp, forward + down and release the lp.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
Also to show how the difference in links and chain combos.

With Ryu:

Chain Version
c.lp xx c.mp xx EX fireball 152 dmg

Link Version
c.lp, c.mp xx EX fireball 170 dmg

vixlar said:
Another kind of buffering (I think) is when you press a button, keep it pressed, do the movement and release the button.

So in this case you can combine both buffers to do the combo: forward, down, press and keep lp, forward + down and release the lp.
Click to expand...


Called negative edge. Basically releasing a button counts as pressing one in SF fighting games.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
AAK said:
Man... Mission 13 is really making me hate Guile and Law! How are you supposed to avoid them for 60 seconds while they have regenerating meter. You can't kill them, but if you touch them with anything fierce they die making you fail the mission... and yet you take in chip damage throughout where if you want to inflict damage to them to get the advantage in HP, they die.

And of coarse they always start with the cross assault :(
Click to expand...
never tried it but that sounds interesting. rolento jab patriot circle pressure? or hugo c.lk clap pressure lockdown? or perhaps just walk up jabs with paul?
 
C

CPS2

Member
Nose Master said:
Normals have a certain amount of cancellable frames, don't they? I imagine that window would be pretty small for a jab/short (like... 2 frames), and if you don't hit that window you have to wait fully until after recovery (like, 6?)
Click to expand...

The cancel window is all of hitstop (which is not listed in the frame data, usually 5-10 frames), and some of startup, depending on the game (in SF4 the cancel window is all of startup + hitstop). You generally can't cancel during recovery, although there's a few exceptions. I'm not sure what the cancel window is in SFxTK, but in most games its at least 5-10 frames.
 
A

AAK

Member
I just tested it. 3 jabs will kill them, 2 mediums will kill them, and 1 fierce will kill them. You only have room to impact with either 2 jabs, or 1 jab/1 medium, or 1 medium to give yourself room because if they take anymore they die and you fail the mission.... I've been stuck here for 2.5 hours now and it's infuriating me! The only way is to dodge and safely jump around both Law and Guile until the 60 sec time runs out and pray that your health is bigger than theirs.

Using Dhalsim against guile and Vega against Law... I get so close sometimes, but in the end I have less health than them because of the chip damage I took :(

I think you have to master alpha counters... because that is the best way of dealing damage to them without killing them. I don't have the timing down yet.
 
W

wastedyears

Member
Chittagong said:
I shudder thinking how hard things will get after this, not to speak of about integrating this stuff to my gameplay somehow. I guess I have to start to understand more than memorize?
Click to expand...

Fighting games are a lot more complex than most people realize. Cancels and links are really a big part of the basics of most fighting games. I'm not trying to patronize here, they really are considered some of the basics of many fighting games. Practice your execution, learn when to block properly, how and when to punish, and you'll be off to a really good start.
 
Nose Master

Nose Master

Member
In the guide, what the hell does it mean when it says a move "crushes" low attacks? I noticed it's listed on launchers, so does that just mean lower body invincibility / it beats out low pokes?

EDIT: The superjump thing is weird, especially since it's not even covered in the game. I noticed it fucking around last night, but it is in the guide. Every character has a High Jump, but some of them don't change the jump at all other than the dust cloud. Most add a frame or two of hang time.

EDIT2: Whoa. You can cancel Ryu's jumping mp (after the first hit) into a tatsu.
 
A

AAK

Member
Okay... I just realized gems was everything for that mission... Equit iron wall and fortitude gems and block using Zangief and Hugo... way easier than I though :(
 
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