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[Teknopathetic]

"I don't think throwing yet another mechanic in this game is a good idea.

So people can play lame to get timeouts, big deal. It's just another style of play."


Timeouts and playing lame aren't a problem, but you should at least have to be active with your lameness.

 

[hertog]

I don't think throwing yet another mechanic in this game is a good idea.

So people can play lame to get timeouts, big deal. It's just another style of play.

When Hugo takes away 60% of my lifebar without a meter, I consider it a compliment when I can keep him out for 99 seconds with Guile.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Hugo lol

Clakey won that single handedly.

 

[WesternHeretic]

Kaz infinite ain't got shit on Hugo. LOL

 

[SamVimes]

Unfortunately timeouts aren't exciting for viewers.

To me they are way more exciting than 80 hits combo that just go on and on and on.

 

[MThanded]

"This is kind of a paradox. Gems aren't allowed in weekly tourneys because of setup time but by removing gems timeouts are definitely more numerous. Watching the Machinima stream still suffer from timeouts even with gems is disappointing. What the game really might benefit from is a guard break, not a comeback mechanic."

Now I *totally* agree with this. 100%. Was actually one of the first things I thought could/should be added to the game, for its own benefit.

I agree, a guard break would be a nice addition.

To me they are way more exciting than 80 hits combo that just go on and on and on.

At least you have to do something for that in mvc3. You can get a 99 hit combo in sf x tekken and time the game out lol

 

[DRE Fei]

This is a Capcom game, so you must counterpick Hugo.

 

[GhostRidah]

THAT HUGO DAMAGE

 

[TheChits]

God damn at that damage

 

[Imm0rt4l]

*golf clap

This is a Capcom game, so you must counterpick Hugo.

I would say Mike should rock gat, but his sagat is ass anyways. He'd still have a better chance probably.

 

[LunaticHigh]

This is a Capcom game, so you must counterpick Hugo.

Good luck with that.

 

[I'm an expert]

Ugh..want to watch Marn's Steve so bad. Damn you Hugo.

 

[Ferrio]

That was wonderful.

Poor Hugo getting caught in an infinite.

 

[SupaNaab]

The problem is that even when a significant amount of time is on the clock a player can decide to block for a third of the total game time and take the win. You are not witnessing players laming out opponents with defensive characters through spacing or chip damage, these guys are just blocking. The rewards for blocking are too great. You should be required to be active whether it be running away, poking or chipping. Grapplers are popular for a lot of reasons, but SPDs beat blocking and blocking is what we do in SFxT.

 

[Venfayth]

Just don't let justin play, haha.

 

[d0c_zaius]

The problem is that even when a significant amount of time is on the clock a player can decide to block for a third of the total game time and take the win. You are not witnessing players laming out opponents with defensive characters through spacing or chip damage, these guys are just blocking. The rewards for blocking are too great. You should be required to be active whether it be running away, poking or chipping. Grapplers are popular for a lot of reasons, but SPDs beat blocking and blocking is what we do in SFxT.

I dont see how this is as much a problem as you are implying considering how many characters have overheads. If you let someone sit there and block then you should expect to be timer scammed.

Don't really understand "blocking is what we do in SFxT" means. It sounds like you think SFxT is the only game that requires blocking or something.

 

[Sblargh]

The problem is that even when a significant amount of time is on the clock a player can decide to block for a third of the total game time and take the win. You are not witnessing players laming out opponents with defensive characters through spacing or chip damage, these guys are just blocking. The rewards for blocking are too great. You should be required to be active whether it be running away, poking or chipping. Grapplers are popular for a lot of reasons, but SPDs beat blocking and blocking is what we do in SFxT.

But then we start a spider web of parts affecting one another. If jump-ins weren't so powerful, we wouldn't be blocking so much.

And yeah, game has lots of high-lows and cross-ups. If you are *just* blocking, something will get through.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I dont see how this is as much a problem as you are implying considering how many characters have overheads. If you let someone sit there and block then you should expect to be timer scammed."

A majority of the comboable overheads are seeable and a lot of them are unsafe or even interruptable on reaction.


"Don't really understand "blocking is what we do in SFxT" unless you dont value blocking in games like GG, UMVC3 or SC5."

SC5 has both guard breaking/crushing and sidestepping, which is as valuable or more than just blocking considering guard breaking/crushing. SC5 also has just guard.

 

[SAB CA]

There is a guard break-looking mechanic in the game (try doing Nina's combo grab on a guarding opponent). If anything, I wonder, why isn't this used more often? I've seen it on Nina, and one other (think it's Ibuki's EX Raida), but I think characters like Julia and maybe someone like Steve would get a lot out of having a guard-breaking EX move in their arsenal... suprised tekken characters don't just have it in general, to replace their unblockables...

 

[d0c_zaius]

"I dont see how this is as much a problem as you are implying considering how many characters have overheads. If you let someone sit there and block then you should expect to be timer scammed."


A majority of the comboable overheads are seeable and a lot of them are unsafe or even interruptable on reaction.

So then wouldnt this be the problem, and not the timer? From what I've seen, its not just overheads that have this property of being unsafe or interruptable.

"SC5 has both guard breaking/crushing and sidestepping, which is as valuable or more than just blocking considering guard breaking/crushing."

Sure. But SFxT has counters, overheads, crumples, wallbounces and ground bounces. Couple that with the juggle system and its reasonable to expect people playing hyper defensive at first.

 

[QisTopTier]

I dont see how this is as much a problem as you are implying considering how many characters have overheads. If you let someone sit there and block then you should expect to be timer scammed.

Don't really understand "blocking is what we do in SFxT" means. It sounds like you think SFxT is the only game that requires blocking or something.

Perhaps you should play me or tek sometime. So you can see what he is talking about exactly

Marvel is the only game that got listed that didn't have a penalty for blocking, but that game has unblockable set ups out the ass. GG punishes the shit out of you for blocking all day.

Some of the characters in the game can keep away damn near forever, and some of the characters straight up have no good way of opening up others. Mix the two together and well ya.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Sure. But SFxT has counters, overheads, crumples, wallbounces and ground bounces. Couple that with the juggle system and its reasonable to expect people playing hyper defensive at first."


I'm not sure why you're listing all of that stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the comparison of defensive options in both games.

Furthermore, SC5 has all of that, with the exception of maybe ground bounces but quite a few moves connect on grounded characters

 

[SamVimes]

Are we really comparing a 3d fighting game to a 2d?

 

[SupaNaab]

I dont see how this is as much a problem as you are implying considering how many characters have overheads. If you let someone sit there and block then you should expect to be timer scammed.

Don't really understand "blocking is what we do in SFxT" unless you dont value blocking in games like GG, UMVC3 or SC5.

The blocking player still gets opened up eventually but in cases where a player decides to just block for wins they are generally aware that they can take 2 or 3 combos before death so long as they can avoid getting opened on the first blockstring. There's a lot of contributing factors to timeouts like supers not stopping the clock but the game is already lengthier than most so we need constructive ways to increase active play. In a game where Hugo is dealing more than 50% solo, timeouts shouldn't be an issue yet somehow they are.

 

[Resilient]

Timeouts as a result of infinite combos - lame

Timeouts as a result of strategy - imokaywiththis

 

[Ferrio]

Think Floe's Jin might be the best character in the game at the moment.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Are we really comparing a 3d fighting game to a 2d?"

Not that I was the first to mention one, but what's the problem with that? We're talking about a core concept in fighting games in general (the balance between offense and defense), 3D or 2D doesn't really matter.

 

[QisTopTier]

Think Floe's Jin might be the best character in the game at the moment.

WTB more Julia she's so good in this.

 

[d0c_zaius]

Perhaps you should play me or tek sometime. So you can see what he is talking about exactly

Marvel is the only game that got listed that didn't have a penalty for blocking, but that game has unblockable set ups out the ass. GG punishes the shit out of you for blocking all day.

Yea you are right. I havent seen what you guys are describing to the extent that you say just from casual play and streams, but I'm a scrub so I can't claim any absolute knowledge. Just looking for clarity I guess. And yea, GG has negative penalty and other things that reward being offensive, but I dont think guarding is any less important.

"Sure. But SFxT has counters, overheads, crumples, wallbounces and ground bounces. Couple that with the juggle system and its reasonable to expect people playing hyper defensive at first."


I'm not sure why you're listing all of that stuff that doesn't have anything to do with the comparison of defensive options in both games.

Furthermore, SC5 has all of that, with the exception of maybe ground bounces but quite a few moves connect on grounded characters

I mentioned those things because based on the game being new and people not being used to the options and how to react/counter them, matches are more likely to be a block fest in the beginning. There is no reason why that cant change though as people become more accustomed to move properties and match ups.

The blocking player still gets opened up eventually but in cases where a player decides to just block for wins they are generally aware that they can take 2 or 3 combos before death so long as they can avoid getting opened on the first blockstring. There's a lot of contributing factors to timeouts like supers not stopping the clock but the game is already lengthier than most so we need constructive ways to increase active play. In a game where Hugo is dealing more than 50% solo, timeouts shouldn't be an issue yet somehow they are.

ahh ok this makes more sense to me. When we play at work we average about 1 timeout for every 5-7 matches, but I havent played online at all yet.

Sure its a shitty example, but after seeing Floes Jin and Valle's Kazuya, it seems hard to imagine that people could block/time scam through that. Of course they are ahead of the game, but I think that it could change as more people get used to the game. I'm primarily using MVC3 as an example though.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I mentioned those things because based on the game being new and people not being used to the options and how to react/counter them, matches are more likely to be a block fest in the beginning. There is no reason why that cant change though as people become more accustomed to move properties and match ups."


I would say it's unlikely for it to change for the exact same reason. With throws being less effective in this game, it's harder to open someone up, they're under no pressure to make an active decision while on defense unless they're facing a grappler.

 

[Resilient]

To be fair it's been a little over a week since release. The first few days I spent blocking a lot during matches to get a feel for the mechanics and match ups. This week I've spent countering during block strings and setting up frame traps. As time goes on this won't be a problem. The infinites should be fixed however. Instead of crying foul so early for a new mechanic to prevent time outs, the game should be given some more time for people to figure it out.

 

[SamVimes]

"Are we really comparing a 3d fighting game to a 2d?"

Not that I was the first to mention one, but what's the problem with that? We're talking about a core concept in fighting games in general (the balance between offense and defense), 3D or 2D doesn't really matter.

Because it's completely different, 3d games traditionally are focused on close ranged game, big oki (yeah it was strong in SF but not as in games where you can actually hit a grounded opponent), very strong mixup and a THIRD DIMENSION. You don't really see footsies and stuff like that.

 

[WesternHeretic]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but.....


I feel sorry for Marn.

He got thrown to the wolves every single time.

 

[QisTopTier]

Because it's completely different, 3d games traditionally are focused on close ranged game, big oki (yeah it was strong in SF but not as in games where you can actually hit a grounded opponent), very strong mixup and a THIRD DIMENSION. You don't really see footsies and stuff like that.

I see a fuck ton of footsies in sc5

 

[DRE Fei]

Ummmm, VF5 has a ton of footsies.

 

[Mileena]

WTB more Julia she's so good in this.

I like her but she's too hard for me. The party crasher -> qcb P dash cancel shit is ridiculous.

 

[naib]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but.....


I feel sorry for Marn.

He got thrown to the wolves every single time.

But you saw him there stackin' papers. Ha!

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Because it's completely different, 3d games traditionally are focused on close ranged game, big oki (yeah it was strong in SF but not as in games where you can actually hit a grounded opponent), very strong mixup and a THIRD DIMENSION. You don't really see footsies and stuff like that."


The 3D game he mentioned was Soul Calibur, though, where ranges for a lot of characters are beyond "close range." Furthermore, footsies most certainly play a role in 3D fighting games. Especially in Soul Calibur and Tekken.

And all of this is beside the point that we're talking about the balance of offense and defense, the difference between the two kinds of fighting games is irrelevant because it's an important factor to both.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

"Is the infinite allowed?"

"YES!"

 

[Flying Wonkey]

very strong mixup and a THIRD DIMENSION. You don't really see footsies and stuff like that.

You ever watch Tekken play and wonder why the players are 'shuffling around' in a crazy pace?

Yeah it's mostly fishing for stuff and whiff punishing.

 

[d0c_zaius]

Because it's completely different, 3d games traditionally are focused on close ranged game, big oki (yeah it was strong in SF but not as in games where you can actually hit a grounded opponent), very strong mixup and a THIRD DIMENSION. You don't really see footsies and stuff like that.

Hmm I have to disagree.

No footsies in SC5, VF5 (tekken of course)....hell even DOA has some. Besides that, 3D games have elements shared with 2D games just in spacing and execution.

I would say it's unlikely for it to change for the exact same reason. With throws being less effective in this game, it's harder to open someone up, they're under no pressure to make an active decision while on defense unless they're facing a grappler.

Maybe for conventional approaches like throwing out overheads after a opponent blocks a couple of strings, but I think stuff like charging plus charge cancelling and staying on top of an almost dead character will give people a reason to try a bunch of options. You could be right of course, I just think its a little early to judge. I'm guessing the idea of chains, the ease of their execution and people not knowing any better will make a ton of fights block vs block when they dont need to be. And practically NO one uses gems or alpha counters yet.

I do think the time running during supers (especially some tag supers) needs to be changed. But I wouldn't be too pissed if they just keep it the same.

 

[SupaNaab]

I doubt anyone wants to see a Guard Break added so soon. Post-EVO discussion will probably focus on this though, especially if gems are banned. Also, I forgot to mention blocking directly rewards timeouts via alpha counters.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

OH WE GOT POPOFFS

 

[SamVimes]

I stand corrected.

Still, my point is that when the games are so different in the way they play you can't really draw a comparison: you can say for example that Soul Calibur 5 is more balanced in defense vs offense, but you can't just throw mechanics in.

 

[QisTopTier]

I like her but she's too hard for me. The party crasher -> qcb P dash cancel shit is ridiculous.

No no it's easy to do, you do the input hold the button, then forward forward and let go and party crasher comes out

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Still, my point is that when the games are so different in the way they play you can't really draw a comparison: you can say for example that Soul Calibur 5 is more balanced in defense vs offense, but you can't just throw mechanics in."


No one's saying you should just take mechanics from Soul Calibur and put them in SFxT (and guard break has existed in numerous 2D fighting games). The point of mentioning the mechanics of the various games is *why* they bring about a a better balance between offense and defense, how a mechanic might do the same for SFxT, and why one might feel SFxT is lacking in this regard.

 

[LakeEarth]

God, Rufus is so good. Get can tag combo from so far away thanks to his c.fp.

 

[QisTopTier]

God, Rufus is so good. Get can tag combo from so far away thanks to his c.fp.

Ogre is the same way, cr. mp

 

[Degen]

2v2 offline is the right way to play this game.

 

[Ferrio]

Floe by far the best in this game right now.