ihearthawthats
Banned
i find the netcode pretty decent. i prefer the occasional hiccup/rollback over fighting underwater.
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Street Fighter X Tekken |OT| Truly, truly outrageous~
- Thread starter Tizoc
- Start date
The games I tend to play more have much better netcode, though smaller playerbases.
I guess this netcode looks good if you compare it to MK, SF, or KOF, but I don't play any of those (KOF I quit entirely because of netcode)
The Lone Dragon
Member
WakeUpSRK podcast with Jibbo: http://www.twitch.tv/keits/b/343558935
SUPARSTARX
Member
It looks good. I like the tweaks
The lack of visual hit-stop-zoom-in nonsense on things like chain launchers is hugely appreciated.
Yes, that and the recoverable life being recovered VERY slow are great tweaks! And we had some doubts about how the rolls would be now. So, rolls are punishable DURING the roll, not at the end of it. It's not that easy to punish it, you gotta have the right timing to do it
SUPARSTARX
Member
Btw, poverty Savage Saturdays featuring SFxT this upcoming Saturday 12/8/2012
Yeah it's the same as the SF25 finals but if you're in the NYC area, come on down.
https://www.facebook.com/events/354628694633470/
Yeah it's the same as the SF25 finals but if you're in the NYC area, come on down.
https://www.facebook.com/events/354628694633470/
stn
Member
Yup. I've been saying millions of times that Capcom has no clue what to do with its own franchise. At this point they'll listen to anybody they think carries the opinion of the majority. Either way, I wish they would STOP with the fan-service for once. Every time fans ask for a re-balance Capcom goes and screws something up. You can still zone with Guile, you just won't get as much meter for doing so.
But yeah, the direction of modern SF games is geared towards mindless rushdown.
The problem was that the game so totally favored defensive play before that they kinda need to go scorched earth here to prevent up-backing, especially since the stages are stupidly long.
ihearthawthats
Banned
what huge nerfs are you talking about? the only one i really see is 50 less health. i hope you don't mean his glitched cross counter, which deserved to be fixed.
also, i haven't been following news that closely, but upon digging up the old changelogs i find out that the patch was delayed to january instead.
950 hp was already pushing it IMO. 900 is just bad.
His sonic booms on whiff build ZERO meter now. Imagine a fireball war against an alisa. She's building all this meter while he gains none. And getting in on her with guile isn't easy.
They don't want a zoning character to zone.
U know its bad when dieminion is planning on dropping him.
no i believe sf4 whiff booms built LITTLE meter but not NO meter. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also I have a question regarding frame data and links if anyone can help me.
The 2013 patch says that Guile's cr. LP - Frames increased by 3 (+5F on hit / +1F on block). Does this make his c.lp, c.mp link combo harder to do?
They are making all LP and LK slower, so you can't have that insane jab pressure, maybe the biggest of all the game's problems.
So, maybe the timing to do it will be slight different, but I don't think it will be harder.
stn
Member
You can still build a bit of meter with whiffed booms, no? I think you build 1/20 of a whole bar, so it would take 20 booms to fill up the bar. Either way, Guile will be useless.
Capcom and most of the fans are completely ignorant to how strong defensive play actually was and is in this game. Let's look at it...
1. Neutral jumping fireballs is EASY.
2. Long stages mean that fireballs at long distance do not PRESSURE.
3. Diagonal jumps cover long distances.
4. Many blind spots you can jump into to avoid a projectile AND an AA follow-up.
5. Rushdown is much more broken and rewarding (ex. Heihachi and his st. jab 50/50 mix-ups).
6. Fireball-sweep traps do not exist.
I also see so many people saying "x character has problems getting in". Yeah, like who? Aside from jumping, which is VERY effective, all characters have a way around fireballs. Heihachi is very slow? Who cares. He can jump AND reflect fireballs all day.
The stages are really long? Yeah, this contributes to zoning as much as it detracts from it. You can cover half the stage just by jumping forward. You won't take any chip damage or damage in general. Why can't people see the obvious? I swear, it feels like I'm playing a totally different game sometimes.
Fireballs are no good unless they can PRESSURE you into either jumping into an AA or being forced to eat chip. Fireballs in this game are better than in SF4 due to a lack of focus attacks, but rushdown has always been vastly superior.
One guy on a forum challenged my assertion and insulted me, and said I was just talking nonsense. I messaged him a whole analysis which I think proved my point. He didn't even respond.
Either way, Capcom has no clue. They're about to butcher this game with 2013. I hope people enjoy jumping around mindlessly with Guile after they realize they have no other options.
Capcom and most of the fans are completely ignorant to how strong defensive play actually was and is in this game. Let's look at it...
1. Neutral jumping fireballs is EASY.
2. Long stages mean that fireballs at long distance do not PRESSURE.
3. Diagonal jumps cover long distances.
4. Many blind spots you can jump into to avoid a projectile AND an AA follow-up.
5. Rushdown is much more broken and rewarding (ex. Heihachi and his st. jab 50/50 mix-ups).
6. Fireball-sweep traps do not exist.
I also see so many people saying "x character has problems getting in". Yeah, like who? Aside from jumping, which is VERY effective, all characters have a way around fireballs. Heihachi is very slow? Who cares. He can jump AND reflect fireballs all day.
The stages are really long? Yeah, this contributes to zoning as much as it detracts from it. You can cover half the stage just by jumping forward. You won't take any chip damage or damage in general. Why can't people see the obvious? I swear, it feels like I'm playing a totally different game sometimes.
Fireballs are no good unless they can PRESSURE you into either jumping into an AA or being forced to eat chip. Fireballs in this game are better than in SF4 due to a lack of focus attacks, but rushdown has always been vastly superior.
One guy on a forum challenged my assertion and insulted me, and said I was just talking nonsense. I messaged him a whole analysis which I think proved my point. He didn't even respond.
Either way, Capcom has no clue. They're about to butcher this game with 2013. I hope people enjoy jumping around mindlessly with Guile after they realize they have no other options.
He gains NO bar whiffing booms, but I don't think he'll be useless, he still gains metter whiffing normals, and they are trying to make the game more rushdown, but I don't think making zoning close to useless is the answer.
Yes, but you can easily go in, make some good damage, run away, and only whiff punish, that's why we get so many time overs and making the game looking "boring". This strategic CANNOT work.
Yoshimitsu is a good example of character that has problems to get in.
You can rushdown as easily as you can turtle, that's the problem.
I dissagre. I think the game will still have problems, but some changes are REALLY good, specially making recoverable life A LOT slower and rolls and strings punishable
stn
Member
Don't get me wrong, I love all of the system changes. The rolls should be punishable, the new gem color effects are much better, and life should definitely recover less. Heck, I also love the lack of zoom on ABC launchers. I also re-thought my stance on Guile slightly, and realized that he'll just be a battery character rather than an anchor now.
I'm still planning to make it all work in this game, its my favorite modern fighter (not counting HDR). But I disagree with QUITE a few of the changes Capcom has made to the SF side, and some of the Tekken changes. I always found it odd that people have problems with a fireball, but zero issues with getting killed by making one wrong mix-up guess. I'm extremely glad the game isn't as brain-dead as SF4, however.
I just hate it that Capcom is trying to shove rushdown down everyone's throat when a majority of modern fighters are rushdown (Tekken, Soul Calibur, VF, DOA, and I bet TxSF will be as well). I like some variety.
I'm still planning to make it all work in this game, its my favorite modern fighter (not counting HDR). But I disagree with QUITE a few of the changes Capcom has made to the SF side, and some of the Tekken changes. I always found it odd that people have problems with a fireball, but zero issues with getting killed by making one wrong mix-up guess. I'm extremely glad the game isn't as brain-dead as SF4, however.
I just hate it that Capcom is trying to shove rushdown down everyone's throat when a majority of modern fighters are rushdown (Tekken, Soul Calibur, VF, DOA, and I bet TxSF will be as well). I like some variety.
I wasn't never good at the 1-frame link for guile in ssf4 but can do it no problem in sfxt. If they make it -frame again i'm screwed
stn
Member
I don't think so, no. The thing with the buffs to the Tekken cast is that suddenly nearly every character there is capable of being an anchor. Take Yoshi, for example: Despite his low-tier placement in 2012, he's still great at being an anchor due to his meter building and easy tags.
Some of the characters SHOULD have weaknesses due to this being a tag game. However, they shouldn't be completely useless if used entirely on their own (this requires some theory fighter). The nerfs to the SF side are bit too drastic, in my opinion.
This new patch also blurs the line between what each respectable side is good at. If previously the strength of the SF side was zoning and footsies, what is it now? Characters like Jin and Law now have the best AA's, and Julia and co. have great footsies. That's not counting the fact that staple footsies characters like Ryu have had all their important tools nerfed. Why would you nerf Ryu's cr. mk when its the main tool he's relied on since...forever? And Guile - he has only two special moves as it is!!!
If you nerf zoning then what's the point of even using the SF side? Isn't it better to pick Jin and Heihachi, for example, for maximum damage and mix-ups?
To be fair I'm going to give the patch an HONEST try. Given my playstyle I'll just have to compensate for a lack of meter building by using the appropriate gems, or by taking more rushdown opportunities when I get them (which I do anyway, I just feel it might be harder to get them now with zoning nerfed).
I know I quoted someone while replying with this, but the post is intended for everyone who reads it.
ihearthawthats
Banned
capcom characters, including guile, have placed very high on many people's tier lists. again, the only substantial nerf guile recieved was the health. all of the other nerfs were practically universal across the whole cast (i.e. weakened jab pressure, no more reversal switch cancel, punishable boost combos, lessened meter gain), so while guile got weaker in these regards, so did most of the other cast.
stn
Member
That's true to an extent. The nerfs will hurt Guile more just because he relies almost strictly on the sonic boom. Its not going to hurt rushdown characters as much since they rushdown no matter what, except now they get more meter for it.
The nerf appears universal but I don't think its going to work out as intended. He's going to get owned so bad by Akuma, Chun-Li, and Raven now because he won't have meter for EX booms. He also doesn't have the greatest damage as a battery and he's no longer a good anchor (at least, I don't think he is). If I had to categorize the changes...
Too good: Jin, Heihachi, Hworang, Lili, Jack-X
Just right: Yoshimitsu, Paul, Alisa
Too bad: Raven, Akuma, Guile, Rolento, Cody, Hugo, Dhalsim, Ryu
Just based off the few I've been following. Like honestly, how is it nobody is complaining about Jack-X? Justin Wong was going nuts on IPL using just his cr. jab and ground pound. It was about as abusive as Cody's cr. lk spam by PR Rog. That level of zoning brought me back to the SF2 days. Someone tell me how Jack-X is suddenly the best zoner BY FAR in an SF game??? lol...
The nerf appears universal but I don't think its going to work out as intended. He's going to get owned so bad by Akuma, Chun-Li, and Raven now because he won't have meter for EX booms. He also doesn't have the greatest damage as a battery and he's no longer a good anchor (at least, I don't think he is). If I had to categorize the changes...
Too good: Jin, Heihachi, Hworang, Lili, Jack-X
Just right: Yoshimitsu, Paul, Alisa
Too bad: Raven, Akuma, Guile, Rolento, Cody, Hugo, Dhalsim, Ryu
Just based off the few I've been following. Like honestly, how is it nobody is complaining about Jack-X? Justin Wong was going nuts on IPL using just his cr. jab and ground pound. It was about as abusive as Cody's cr. lk spam by PR Rog. That level of zoning brought me back to the SF2 days. Someone tell me how Jack-X is suddenly the best zoner BY FAR in an SF game??? lol...
SUPARSTARX
Member
I duno, I'm impartial to Guile's hp nerf.
He covers A LOT of space on the screen in addition to having good walk speed, better sonic boom projectile hit box, delayed sonic boom, long c.MK range into a lot of damage and just being hard to break.
They just want to make those openings count for people going against Guile which is a decent balance. Stamina nerfing and buffing is lazy balance but you can't possibly do better by removing his tools. It's probably the next best thing they could do to narrow him a bit more with the rest of the cast.
He covers A LOT of space on the screen in addition to having good walk speed, better sonic boom projectile hit box, delayed sonic boom, long c.MK range into a lot of damage and just being hard to break.
They just want to make those openings count for people going against Guile which is a decent balance. Stamina nerfing and buffing is lazy balance but you can't possibly do better by removing his tools. It's probably the next best thing they could do to narrow him a bit more with the rest of the cast.
"Control" play in games almost always requires more skill than aggression.
ihearthawthats
Banned
well i know justin wong has been saying he's a really good character, but cody was even more broken so that's probably why he took the spot on his team instead. gamerbee mains jack-x and pre-patch claimed he was no doubt the best character in the game. now that cody is no longer op, i can see justin wong continuing to use jack-x.I was really hoping no big time players would use jack-x and show the world his true power. I'm a jack-x player and want to remain one of the few that uses him >
The amount of blockstun on the Seismos, even in the 2013 version, is downright ridiculous.
SUPARSTARX
Member
SRK Forum online bi-weeklies
https://www.youtube.com/user/SFxTxOTS
I uploaded this past week's round of matches for 'em. Got some pretty good play here. Watch out for some of the new ones, Yung_Ice's Lei might seduce you guys into using him.
Here's some sweet DLC gem coming into play here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jqPA04mFyIA#t=109s 75% damage combo ~ wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
https://www.youtube.com/user/SFxTxOTS
I uploaded this past week's round of matches for 'em. Got some pretty good play here. Watch out for some of the new ones, Yung_Ice's Lei might seduce you guys into using him.
Here's some sweet DLC gem coming into play here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jqPA04mFyIA#t=109s 75% damage combo ~ wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
SUPARSTARX
Member
Gonna drop by NL tomorrow around 5PM for some AE and SFxT.
I'll be carrying around my VS stick, say hi if you are there!
I'll be carrying around my VS stick, say hi if you are there!
SUPARSTARX
Member
Got most of the matches uploaded.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyGNfjJKxUp0gabTYylBA5VQIHv_BgSQH
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyGNfjJKxUp0gabTYylBA5VQIHv_BgSQH
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I'm officially coming back to this game next month in 100% serious mode
shaowebb
Member
I'm officially coming back to this game next month in 100% serious mode
Odd question, but did you ever try King of Fighters XIII?
GrayFoxPL
Member
DR2K
Banned
I'm not seeing how this addresses being able to back dash across the extra wide screen in the last 20 seconds and playing keep away until win.
Shouta
Member
Character changes will address some of that. Plus if you're hitting your big damage combos when it's being played in neutral, then they have to come to you instead.
ihearthawthats
Banned
more offensive options doesn't address turtling? i suppose it doesn't address this very specific situation directly, but there are many subtleties. such as trying to minimize the occurence, rather than giving direct tools to deal with the occurence. there used to be rolls to escape corner for free and dash cancelling for meter, which made this tactic not only effective but also wortwhile, and are both now gone.
although, if those are not good enough for you, i'm sure capcom has some secret pandora buff hiding up their sleeve.
SUPARSTARX
Member
Punishable rolls and killing grey life, which I had be advocating for like so long, is going to open up a lot of matches in offensive light.
You see the rolls start up in 2013.. Pandora. Now your second character is standing right on top of the rolling person's head and because pandora is a 0 frame start up, you can probably meaty them with something and start your sequence.
Grey health being slowed down to a crawl plus cheap DP switches make punishes immensely painful in the future. Special move meter building is gone. You can only do normal whiff and very few cases of special move meter building. They mostly removed the charge dashable moves meter and then some but you get the idea. If you don't take initiative you don't really get rewarded much.
You see the rolls start up in 2013.. Pandora. Now your second character is standing right on top of the rolling person's head and because pandora is a 0 frame start up, you can probably meaty them with something and start your sequence.
Grey health being slowed down to a crawl plus cheap DP switches make punishes immensely painful in the future. Special move meter building is gone. You can only do normal whiff and very few cases of special move meter building. They mostly removed the charge dashable moves meter and then some but you get the idea. If you don't take initiative you don't really get rewarded much.
They were never free to begin with.
I'm pretty sure a lot of us would play it if the online wasn't downright terrible. I don't play Marvel because the online makes the game unplayable. I'm strictly ggpo/arcskys/TT2.