Canis lupus
Member
Tieria is my least liked Gundam Meister. Lockon Stratos <3
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Summer 2012 Anime |OT3| Where All the Waifus Are Made Up and the Points Don't Matter
- Thread starter Branduil
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Tieria is my least liked Gundam Meister. Lockon Stratos <3
Yes, then it doesn't matter. Adaptations stand on their own or they are worthless. They are not companion pieces to the original material. Anyone who misses out on this point is doing injustice to the art of adaptation.
The anime staff clearly felt that some things were more important than others, and a certain way of telling the story was more effective than another way. Which is why the narrative is rearranged, and there are details which are not in the original material, and there are also details left out. All of this is done consciously, and hence should be judged on those merits.
If a viewer feels that [x] was not explained well, and feels like a plot hole, it doesn't matter if that was explained in the original material. It is still a fault for that viewer because it means the adaptation did not properly communicate the intention.
On the other hand, if a viewer likes something the anime did in particular, but it was not how the original material handled it, then this is a merit for the adaptation because it means that for that viewer, the original material was elevated and improved.
The quality of adaptations go both ways, and you can't have one without another. It is important to acknowledge faults as well as merits.
But as I just outlined, "still having enough" means the battery is hardly low on available power.
Canis lupus
Member
Angel Beats epilogue 13.5
That was an amazing 2.5 minutes.
That was an amazing 2.5 minutes.
R_thanatos
Member
BUt you can't adapt everything , every detail in a written piece especially when most of the time it's an explanation for each characters actions.. in a anime you they just "act".
They crammed that info in a chapter than was already rushed , for you it's ep 3. but they can't adapt everything.
When you say that it's a plot hole i'm not saying that it isn't . i'm saying that this hole was closed by the author because you can't adapt everything.
Many people said at first : " but if they're stuck in the game , how do they eat , IRL?".. this issue was never adressed properly in the anime , yet it exist a perfectly explanation for this that you can deduce by yourself or not.
And it's not like they can't explain all this stuff afterwards either. Because it should be obvious once you reach a certain point in the story.
it's not a matter of enjoying an anime or not understanding the overall setting of said anime thanks to the adaptation or not ...
Theonik
Member
They could have a separate battery dedicated to the killswitch or a capacitor array. Don't over-think it!
It's not a matter of adapting everything, but rather a matter of making the story in the adaptation feel cohesive and logical. Including every single element of a book in a film adaptation is often the worst way to do it. Instead the best way is to understand the core of the material, and to rearrange it such that it does not feel like it is an adaptation which is "missing" parts, but rather a self contained narrative which is concise and interesting.
Sure, but I think there is a difference between things which can be deduced logically based on what we know about the world as presented to us, or what we know about reality based on our personal experiences. When people bitch about "what do people eat IRL" I don't think that is a plot hole but just nitpicking.
It was clearly presented in the first episode that the authorities were notified, and it is a big news event. This alone allows the audience to draw the logical conclusion that if the government were to deal with it as a national crisis, then the victims would be taken care of, and they would be kept alive by medical aid. It's not a stretch at all, and no one really has to say it out for that conclusion to be drawn.
On the other hand, what you described is a rather unique situation specifically conceived to explain a certain situation in the story by the author. There is no logical deduction which can lead a viewer to go "oh, well I guess the creator probably put in a fail safe system which brings a player to a white room for 2 hours while they are disconnected, waiting to be reconnected at a hospital venue" because that is such a specific situation dependent on a particular plot element being introduced.
Since this scenario was never introduced, it might or might not apply to the adaptation itself. There is no evidence at this point that anything of that sort happened, it was never casually mention, hinted upon, nor is there anything at all which will allow viewers to reach that conclusion. As far as I am concerned, it then does not apply to the defense of the anime in any way.
R_thanatos
Member
i agree.
OK then i'll shut up as this "plot hole" will solve itself next month.
i'm sure of it.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Yeah Tieria would be in my bottom one for them too. I guess mine would be Setsuna F Seiei, Hallelujah, Lockon, then Tieria, Ribbons would be in there too.
I liked both epilogues, though I dont know which one I would have wanted them to continue the series with.
While I'm not as confident of that, I also feel that in a month or so, it really won't matter that much. But I also don't think that we should bring too much LN "facts" into the anime discussion because spoilers might start to slip, and that would be bad.
Either way, it was just a casual observation I had when watching that scene in episode 1 again. It was funny how they went out of their way to show him plugging in a network cabe. Lol.
-Minsc-
Member
When I don't know of their existence, yes, I can complain. Now that I know I'll check them out, assuming I can find them on Crunchyroll or the like.
They're separate works, and so must stand separately.
Either that or I have to accept terrible things about how Usagi Drop ends.
R_thanatos
Member
no for UD , you just have to stop reading , like i did or think that this was a fanfic from an author with similar pen name
Man I just enjoy some of Accel World's OST it's really a mix of anime and game music mash together.
Iron Will
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWEyfXyRmqU&list=PL700E78F7F0374426&index=21&feature=plpp_video
Rainbow Aurora
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQ7UYsz5Bk&feature=relmfu
Bugz(I'm a sucker for techno)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSTxI_nHvgQ
Iron Will
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWEyfXyRmqU&list=PL700E78F7F0374426&index=21&feature=plpp_video
Rainbow Aurora
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOQ7UYsz5Bk&feature=relmfu
Bugz(I'm a sucker for techno)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSTxI_nHvgQ
I can't understand this thing tbh, most adaptation deal with stuff like this. For example Fate/Zero and Steins; Gate, there is just something and detail that could only answered from the material source because the anime just left it out/not giving any detail.
BUT if you ask that issue to the staff in the interview or have chance to ask them in big event like anime conference, they gonna answer by addressing it from what the original source told as well. If the staff itself answering from what only told from the adaptation material, how we can say the adaptation stand on its own?
I dunno if its count as justifying your screw up or that just how it work, if you want detail check the source. And its not just for anime. Movie, Game, or TV show seem work with that way, and its for most of the case.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Iron Will is the best, and re-incarnate ex.
R_thanatos
Member
it's a different view on things
i agree with you since ( as i said before ) you can't adapt everything .You can't have everything in one place anyway and some people have different motivations for everything ( including for watching anime ). it doesn't matter since i gave the info and it's not a spoiler.
Canis lupus
Member
There is more than 1 epilogue? Oh I should look up the other one.
Setsuna is awesome for his calmness, Hallelujah for his madness, Lockon for his coolness.
K-ON!! Episode 3
The death of a musician. It was cool that the personality behind the instruments was desconscruted here. Just like it was previously, the reflective nature of the episode once again came about because of Ritsu, whose dedicated moment in the first season probably ranks as my favourite, so far.
There was some genuine emotion here, and as expected, Ritsu's sunny despipostion is somewhat of a mask for her insecurities. Because these sort of moments aren't simply dragged up to elicit some melodrama, they have a tendency to be impactful when they eventually do arise. Hm, Mio wants the attention, but with the minimum of effort, sounds about right. Seriously though, I get that she is introverted, but that's one aspect I feel really needs to get worked through, as it's become a little irritating. I can see that being precisely the reason she a popular character (particuarly in Japan), but its often a recurring theme in anime, one that almost always breaks any semblance of reality in a character. At least that's the way I've always felt about it.
The death of a musician. It was cool that the personality behind the instruments was desconscruted here. Just like it was previously, the reflective nature of the episode once again came about because of Ritsu, whose dedicated moment in the first season probably ranks as my favourite, so far.
There was some genuine emotion here, and as expected, Ritsu's sunny despipostion is somewhat of a mask for her insecurities. Because these sort of moments aren't simply dragged up to elicit some melodrama, they have a tendency to be impactful when they eventually do arise. Hm, Mio wants the attention, but with the minimum of effort, sounds about right. Seriously though, I get that she is introverted, but that's one aspect I feel really needs to get worked through, as it's become a little irritating. I can see that being precisely the reason she a popular character (particuarly in Japan), but its often a recurring theme in anime, one that almost always breaks any semblance of reality in a character. At least that's the way I've always felt about it.
You're looking at this from a fanboy point of view as someone who wants to consume everything in a given franchise and embrace it. That's fine, but that's not how adaptations are actually made.
You don't have to go into detail about everything to stand alone. Being a stand alone product means that it can be enjoyed on its own without it feeling like there are things brought up which are inconsistent or illogical because of other things which were left out. If you plan on cutting out certain back stories or sub plots in an adaptation, the correct way to do so would be to ensure it is a clean cut. Which means there is nothing in the work itself which draws attention to the element being missing. If you don't plan on having a long explanation for one thing, you can put in a short explanation somewhere else to make sure the story is consistent.
Good creators do spend long hours and a lot of effort in following these basic rules when making a good adaptation. It would be a disservice to just hand wave it away and say that it doesn't matter as long as the source material exists. This is untrue because the point of adaptations is to bring the story and characters to a larger audience who might not be interested in the format the original material is in. The important thing is that adaptations should feel like a worthwhile work on their own, regardless whether a person has any experience with the original material or not.
Yes, yes it was.
KANYA FESTA was a nice and lively change of pace, but in my opinion the real breakthrough has been the latest couple of episodes, specially with the interaction between Oreki and Chitanda on episode 19;
Fantastic moments I have seen... all ready now for the last mystery (of love)!
the more playful than habitual deductions of Oreki, coupled with funny remarks and interjections from both completed a very enjoyable episode. The two, on a more relaxed ambient, loosen up a bit and show how much of a good couple can they be, before the sexual tension and silence outside of a game they came up with to kill time brings back the (sweet) awkwardness, more evident in desperation like in the following episode 20 that felt more like a stalemate in that regard (calm before the storm of feelings?).
This peer-to-peer moments really bring the brisker Oreki, more accustomed now to Chitanda's dependability that in turn has more bright moments as well.
In regards to Fukube, in part it was as depressing (like Watanabe Kazuma said) as also he was pitiable, I think he was simply unsure of the situation, at a confusing age, and simply prefers gaining time to sort out his feelings without irreparably hurting anyone in the process. He always seemed so out of his own sentiments that I thought he couldn't comprehend the ones of the others, but now I have the impression that he isn't as egoistic as he says, and only wants to enjoy a calmer High School life for the moment, without running through or complicating it.
What Fukube did was in bad fashion, and avoiding Ibara that way was the most coward thing he could resort to, without affronting her feelings but understanding the situation well enough. Although, he did it to maintain a 'statu quo' with her because he is simply very afraid of what could possibly come, and I find that this shows from him a more deep and fearful respect towards the possibility of a definitive rupture and lose of her company in the end, than many other possible actions could hint at.
This peer-to-peer moments really bring the brisker Oreki, more accustomed now to Chitanda's dependability that in turn has more bright moments as well.
In regards to Fukube, in part it was as depressing (like Watanabe Kazuma said) as also he was pitiable, I think he was simply unsure of the situation, at a confusing age, and simply prefers gaining time to sort out his feelings without irreparably hurting anyone in the process. He always seemed so out of his own sentiments that I thought he couldn't comprehend the ones of the others, but now I have the impression that he isn't as egoistic as he says, and only wants to enjoy a calmer High School life for the moment, without running through or complicating it.
What Fukube did was in bad fashion, and avoiding Ibara that way was the most coward thing he could resort to, without affronting her feelings but understanding the situation well enough. Although, he did it to maintain a 'statu quo' with her because he is simply very afraid of what could possibly come, and I find that this shows from him a more deep and fearful respect towards the possibility of a definitive rupture and lose of her company in the end, than many other possible actions could hint at.
Fantastic moments I have seen... all ready now for the last mystery (of love)!
It is always time for that! Those IRC hooks-up are much more persuasive than I thought.
KillerMan91
Member
Damn I love Bugz.
victreeb3l
Member
wait its ending? whaaaaaaaaaaat?
Dedication Through Light
Member
Next week is the last episode, then theres a dvd only episode.
R_thanatos
Member
I waited it was totally worth it ...
They really went out with everything in the animation !
I LOVE IT
Dat black and white effect at the end was particulary excellent in the moment choosen.
victreeb3l
Member
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i really hope theres a second season. damnit
Out-of-work Word of God is a bad way to solve anything.
I'm basically just restating what Duckroll said, but an adaptation has to make sense on its own. They're obviously not going to adapt every little bit of a light novel, or do everything the exact same way, so whatever they make should be created such that I don't know that anything is missing. For example, I never felt like I was missing critical information in Steins;Gate or Fate/Zero. Everything the characters did and everything that I was shown made sense without me having to reference the VN or LN each was based on.
What does the staff say to points where an adaptation intentionally differs from its original work? If a fan asks, say, whether a particular conversation between Kotomine and Gilgamesh occurred a dark room or a lit hallway, what are they supposed to say? The truth is, both are equally valid, because there's no "objective reality" outside of each individual work where facts within the Fate/Zero universe can be verified.
There's a concept in literary criticism called "death of the author", which basically states that after a work is finished and published, it exists completely independent of the author. It can be interpreted and read however the viewer wishes, no matter what the author thinks. Anime and adaptations are the same way.
The whole thing isnt. Its a physical impossibility in several ways, but I have learned to just overlook ridiculous things in favor of following the story.
Angel Beats 13
End was really good. 7/10
Glad you liked it! Its not a popular series here at all but if you are at all a Key fan you should find something to enjoy about the show. Its kind of a junk food anime but an engaging one.
What fanboying, I'm just asking is that how its really work. What you saying right now is what ideal, ideal situation for what should really happen in a good work, not what really happen in the most case and explaining the logic of how the worker usually think.
I pick this example, when Steins; Gate airing there is question about
how the microwave time machine deal with a month or year email transferring to the past, viewer know they just need to enter the digit number from Okabe's phone but stuff became complicated when its for month/year data transfer
And in this social media era, people asking the author when they confused with something. You can see this a lot in LN Adaptation anime, where people tweet to author all the time.
For non-anime stuff, How about such like LotR or Harry Potter? or Malver/DC superhero movie that pack 30 issue or something into 2 hour long movie. You can't be uncommon with those guy answering that detail issue from what only told in the material source.
Like I said maybe people just have tendency to justify/ignore their screw up, but is that something we have to accept?
Its different case if its a massive butchering, but for little detail, its seem they want us to just check the source.
F/Z spoiler:
you never bothered how competent mage like Kayneth's wife can fall to Lancer's mole?
I don't mind it but appreciate when my friend that read the novel told me, and I'm seeing the staff doing same thing in some conference.. So I'm questioning is we really should separate it from the source n treat it by its own for each one?
Chet Rippo
Member
I never really felt that her shyness was ever unrealistic, but that's probably just because that's how I am.
And they do address her shyness in the school festival arc.
In hindsight, it now comes across as intentional, because it's being referenced in the very next episode. Well played.
R_thanatos
Member
out of the 11 people i've forced to watch gintama , that EP is the moment when they all went "what the hell this is just too good , i need more ".
That trap fall on everyone , now you have to watch the +200 eps left to enjoy the same feeligns over and over again.
I'd heard good things about it and that it was indeed a sort of "tipping point" episode folk should get to or at least try. It's great to see it's exactly as advertised.
Please show me how I was "forced" to talk it out when I was having a reasonable discussion with Branduil? My first post:
to which he replied:
and I replied:
and afterwards, to his post, you replied:
I would think I was talking it out fairly reasonably. Maybe I should have left that line out entirely, my mistake. Either way, I don't think I was just going "NO." I even agreed with Branduil on the reason for his preference but explained why I still preferred the other despite that. I was talking it out without force.
No, I only get bothered when people fabricate things for the sake of antagonism, such as what you're doing right now. People have spoken ill and talked to me unkindly before, and usually there's a reason. I try to fix that, and I have with several people (darkside, kayos, Branduil I guess depends on how he feels about me but I don't have an issue with him ._.) and now we're on good terms. It's you who dishes shit out and can never take it, as you continually do with me.
Also please consider changing your avatar, I don't have admin powers to force a change to something I find funny like you did to me last month when you thought I had a bad avatar, but it's quite unsightly.
Chet Rippo
Member
Episode 4 is one of my favorites. The episode after that is great too.
K-ON!! Episode 4
Nice little fakeout with Yui and Ui to start the episode off with, even KyoAni are aware that a lot the faces are interchangeable.
Just as I made a point to lambast the character of Mio, this episode highlights her detachment from the rest of the group. It wasn't even the central focus, but it was a moment that was expressed succinctly in the the two contrasting train journeys. Which is neat to see, as the show seems to becoming increasingly self-referential, something I always appreciate in a second season. Although, Mio's laughing fits towards the end reminded me of a similarly quirky character.
I'm also starting to like Sawako's new role as their homeroom teacher, and her desperate struggles to try to remain professional in the face of all the chaos that brings. I also really liked the night scene, there was something completely naturalistic about the way all their laughter and sniggering came across there. Other than that, it was your typical school trip episode, with some really nice shots and details to be found. Not that I'm complaining.
Nice little fakeout with Yui and Ui to start the episode off with, even KyoAni are aware that a lot the faces are interchangeable.
Just as I made a point to lambast the character of Mio, this episode highlights her detachment from the rest of the group. It wasn't even the central focus, but it was a moment that was expressed succinctly in the the two contrasting train journeys. Which is neat to see, as the show seems to becoming increasingly self-referential, something I always appreciate in a second season. Although, Mio's laughing fits towards the end reminded me of a similarly quirky character.
All these little bittersweet moments are building towards something, aren't they?
I'm also starting to like Sawako's new role as their homeroom teacher, and her desperate struggles to try to remain professional in the face of all the chaos that brings. I also really liked the night scene, there was something completely naturalistic about the way all their laughter and sniggering came across there. Other than that, it was your typical school trip episode, with some really nice shots and details to be found. Not that I'm complaining.
Ultimadrago
Member
I'll get to that point one day.
I hope it's the "out of the rough" landmark that I've heard it is.
Saimoe Round 1 - Group H, Day 3 Results
H03
1st 215 Poplar Taneshima @ Working!
2nd 132 Mayaka Ibara @ Hyouka
3rd 123 Miu Takanashi @ Papa No Iukoto O Kikinasai!
H07
1st 243 Mio Akiyama @ K-On!
2nd 162 Saki Nagatsuka @ Ro-Kyu-Bu!
3rd 61 Nagi @ A Channel
H11
1st 206 Marika Katou @ Bodacious Space Pirates
2nd 135 Minori Kushieda @ Toradora!
3rd 103 Yukimura Kusunoki @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
------------------------------------------------
Well, I knew that was going to happen... but still...
Anyway, today is the last match for round one.
H03
1st 215 Poplar Taneshima @ Working!
2nd 132 Mayaka Ibara @ Hyouka
3rd 123 Miu Takanashi @ Papa No Iukoto O Kikinasai!
H07
1st 243 Mio Akiyama @ K-On!
2nd 162 Saki Nagatsuka @ Ro-Kyu-Bu!
3rd 61 Nagi @ A Channel
H11
1st 206 Marika Katou @ Bodacious Space Pirates
2nd 135 Minori Kushieda @ Toradora!
3rd 103 Yukimura Kusunoki @ Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai
------------------------------------------------
Well, I knew that was going to happen... but still...
Anyway, today is the last match for round one.
R_thanatos
Member
I'm so going to use this cap in future discussions
Kokoro connect - 11
Very nice way to introduce this arc ..very funny and nicely done ..the voice work on each character was very much excellent ..and i like the new ED much better than the 2nd ( not that i dislike Inaba but it just didn't click*).
Ps: Inaba reaction to the start of the whole thing was GREAT
Chet Rippo
Member
Dedication Through Light
Member
Hunter x Hunter 47
Awesome hunterpedia and preview.
I guess people kind of overhyped this. Im not one for
so I guess thats why but the match up just didnt have many wow moments. Like my favorite part was just when Kurapika was in the air in front of the moon, which was red and looked cool, as well as just the
. Oh well, he'll still, at this point in time be my third favorite of the main crew. I still think Killua is stronger, if they are going against non spider members.
End eps spoils:
Awesome hunterpedia and preview.
I guess people kind of overhyped this. Im not one for
one sided matches that end in deaths, ruthless even
End eps spoils:
Black and white part was nice style, but why so bloody
Rika, Meat, and Shana will win that one.
chickdigger802
Banned
Yeah, i didn't understand the crossbows. I'm pretty sure every soldier in the past 20 eps have guns :/
Budget cuts :S
chickdigger802
Banned
LOGH 21
Damn...
Damn...
Jessica :/
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