• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Summer 2014 Anime |OT2| Or, where Jexhius finally watches more Doremi for Hito.

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cajunator

Banned
Link Man said:
Hanayamata 10

i9IAu8X2fQNR7.jpg


Cute episode, but I really can't think of much to say. Next episode looks to bring some conflict, though.

Edit: Oh, I thought of something. Naru in a button-down shirt is the cutest thing ever!
Click to expand...

Naru is one of the cutest characters ever in any outfit.
 
A

Articalys

Member
Speaking of eyecatches, I just realized Haikyuu hasn't had any new eyecatches for the entire second half of the show. So boring...

I mean to be fair they sort of ran out of characters, but they could have made new ones for the same players...

Hanayamata is definitely in the running for the cutest eyecatches this season, though.
 
M

MikeHattsu

Member
SAO 17

5Dxgg52.jpg
Click to expand...

Flying is easy, landing is hard.

So Leafa turns out to be
Suguha. And I guess she doesn't know that Kirito is her brother at this point?
Creepy guy is doing creepy stuff in the game as well, and the reveals his evil plans. And Oberon and Titania, eh?
 
Jex

Jex

Member
CorvoSol said:
Layzner #7, well, sort of.

The question, though, is why? What caused this enormous shift? I can offer guesses, but I'm not really sure. My best bet is that the Cold War was taking its toll on people in Japan at the time, if not, really, on the world itself. It had carried on for decades and, contrary to its name, there were quite a few casualties across the world! Super Robots were born as a part of the zeitgeist that demanded a power to grant the feeling of security in a land caught directly between the two powers wielding nuclear flame against one another. And no country knew the terror of nuclear power better than Japan. As the war drug on, then, that same zeitgeist began to question these forces altogether, and this shifted into anime in the form of a questioning by writers of giant robots, which had become the equivalent of Super Heroes and Nuclear Power in one fell swoop.

And the feeling of hatred for the Cold War seems almost transparent. Votoms had Gilgamesh and Balarant. Gundam had Zeon and the Federation. Macross had Mankind and the Zentradi, and Layzner opened with the Soviets and Americans nuking one another before moving on to Humanity and the Gradosians. Each show had its major powers locked in a struggle where the world's survival and governance was the stakes. Each had a powerful anti-war message, and the endings were of varied condemnation of mankind's power to avert such war. VOTOMs has Chirico exit history "until an age without war." ZZ Gundam ends with Judau leaving the inner Solar System in disgust over the unwillingness of mankind to achieve peace. Macross has Zentradi and humans fighting in the ruins of Earth well after the supposed peace has been attained.

The problem I have with this explanation is mostly that I don't really know anything about Japan's role in the Cold War, or the actual feelings people had at that time about the war. If this were about how Americans felt and American works, I would be confident that the Cold War and especially the Vietnam conflict had figured in, but since I don't know how any of this truly effected the Japanese, I'm not as confident in my statements. This caveat given, however, I do feel some measure of surety in my assessment, and hope it stands up to the scrutiny of you, my peers.
Click to expand...

Firstly: Good post.

Secondly: What did you think of Gundam Unicorn?

Thirdly: Okay, here's what I think for real yo. While your argument makes a certain amount of rational sense I don't know if there's enough evidence to support your claims.

You have an idea that a number of real robot show plots were inspired by Cold War events, but you can you plot down those plot elements exactly and be sure that they can't have been inspired by other conflicts e.g. World War II? What about them makes them a clear Cold War allegory, and not just a discussion of war in general?

Moreover, there are other plausible explanations for the shift in tone. For example, Tomino had experience with earlier robot shows and he wanted to make a story for teenagers rather than children. This necessitated more complicated, and darker, stories. Other creators at the same time had grown up watching those earlier shows and so they just wanted to explore those ideas at the same time as Tomino. Perhaps they saw the (eventual) success of his work and wanted some of that for themselves. Etc etc.

Finally, if we accept that what you say is correct, that the Cold War had an influence over the Japanese mindset, then surely there must be evidence of this same phenomenon in other Japanese media released at the same time e.g. films, books, manga etc. You'd need to examine works from the same period to see if this shift can be spotted in those as well.

So, I'm not saying that you're wrong or that your argument doesn't make sense, just that you would need to find a lot more evidence to strengthen it.
 
S

Syrinx

Member
BluWacky said:
Putting my Arjuna stanning hat on, so please feel free to ignore me...

Isn't that exactly why we use words? To communicate? To stop us from feeling isolated? Have you ever been to a country on your own where you can't speak the language? It's incredibly isolating.

I got confused and thought you meant episode 7 (The Invisible Words), but of course Episode 8 deals with very similar themes which I had forgotten. I will have to revisit that at some point to check exactly what Chris says; he never says anything like that in ep 7.
Click to expand...

It didn't feel like the show was railing against communication, but words and language specifically. But why? Language is just another form of communication.

Not to mention it shows a complete disregard for the way words can be used to elicit and convey emotion. He needs to read a book sometime.
 
T

TUSR

Banned
MikeHattsu said:
SAO 17



Flying is easy, landing is hard.

So Leafa turns out to be
Suguha. And I guess she doesn't know that Kirito is her brother at this point?
Creepy guy is doing creepy stuff in the game as well, and the reveals his evil plans. And Oberon and Titania, eh?
Click to expand...

Incest faeries arc
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Andrew J. said:
Makes sense to me. Now, tell me if this seems right:

After, this "robot war is hell" style was reaching its peak in the mid-90s, there was something of a backlash, which primarily took two forms. First, the revival of old-school super robot shows, like GaoGaiGar, Gurren Lagann, Star Driver, the currently-airing Captain Earth, etc. Second, and more interesting in my view, is the synthesis style, which tries to uses the same military setting as early Gundam and the like and tries to maintain some level of moral ambiguity, but also treats the main characters more like super robot heroes, who are able to overcome not only the enemies of the moment but the problem of war itself with their special skills.

Here I'm thinking of shows like Gundam SEED and 00, maybe even going back to Wing, Code Geass, Valvrave, stuff that tends to end on an upbeat note to the effect that the problem of war has been to some degree solved.. You know what show I would say most perfectly captures this sense of synthesis between old-school heroism and modern moral ambiguity? Majestic Prince, of all things. I don't even think it's that great, but it does strike that balance very well.
Click to expand...

I think it is fair to say that following the 80s mecha anime underwent another change. Obviously, just as there would continue to be books written in one genre after it's "end" that persisted, but I think its clear that there were significant differences in 90s anime and 00s anime than the two decades that preceded.

What those differences are I'm not confident on because I haven't really sat down and viewed them through this critical lens or really thought about them. But I also would think that in the 20 years from 90 to 10 there was a significant broadening of the genre into numerous other types and fields. I'm not really prepared to go beyond that point yet.

Jexhius said:
Firstly: Good post.

Secondly: What did you think of Gundam Unicorn?

Thirdly: Okay, here's what I think for real yo. While your argument makes a certain amount of rational sense I don't know if there's enough evidence to support your claims.

You have an idea that a number of real robot show plots were inspired by Cold War events, but you can you plot down those plot elements exactly and be sure that they can't have been inspired by other conflicts e.g. World War II? What about them makes them a clear Cold War allegory, and not just a discussion of war in general?

Moreover, there are other plausible explanations for the shift in tone. For example, Tomino had experience with earlier robot shows and he wanted to make a story for teenagers rather than children. This necessitated more complicated, and darker, stories. Other creators at the same time had grown up watching those earlier shows and so they just wanted to explore those ideas at the same time as Tomino. Perhaps they saw the (eventual) success of his work and wanted some of that for themselves. Etc etc.

Finally, if we accept that what you say is correct, that the Cold War had an influence over the Japanese mindset, then surely there must be evidence of this same phenomenon in other Japanese media released at the same time e.g. films, books, manga etc. You'd need to examine works from the same period to see if this shift can be spotted in those as well.

So, I'm not saying that you're wrong or that your argument doesn't make sense, just that you would need to find a lot more evidence to strengthen it.
Click to expand...

1. I actually agree with more or less everything you had to say on Gundam Unicorn. I like the music more than you did, but I recognize that I'm one of like, 4 people in AnimeGAF who likes Sawano's cheesy, over the top, always bombastic style. The men in Unicorn tend to be flaky, insubstantial, and slaves to the plot. Although I liked Zimmerman, I felt Banagher was perhaps the most generic, distilled protagonist in the entire timeline. Whereas Kamille had his angst and Judau had his goofy antics to set them apart from Amuro, there doesn't seem to be anything that really does that for Banagher. And the less said about Riddhe the better, because I can't avoid breaking into a litany of profanities at the mere mention of his name. Also, Full Frontal. At the end of the show I was pretty disappointed in him. His master plan was evil economics and he just wound up being some weird combination of Char's characters without any of the punch that made him good in MSG and MSZG.

As to the women of the show, I think you were spot on, especially about Marida. There was a definite going overboard with her character that, like I mentioned shortly after your post, sort of brought up a strange lack of forgiveness in UC Gundam for the things women do compared to men. Marida was a Qubeley pilot and so she got put through all manner of Hell, until she was free from it, and then she got stuck in the Banshee, until she was free from that, which lasted five seconds until Riddhe killed her. Meanwhile Riddhe kills her and he gets away without a scratch. They go so far as to forgive him.

It also brings up this really weird element of men killing women in Gundam as an outlet for anger they cannot otherwise control. It differs from when villains do this to subordinates as a show of their evil. Hathaway kills Chan in CCA for absolutely no reason at all, and he receives no punishment for it there, either.

Moving on to my post, I readily grant your point: I lack evidence to support my claim. I just haven't seen enough and studied enough of Japan's cultural history during the Cold War to really be certain of it. Like I said toward the end, if it were America it would fit, since I could then also point to examples of American culture's weariness with the Vietnam war. The element that lead me to believe it was the Cold War rather than the Second World War was more of a desire for the events to be contemporary than anything else, I suppose.

I do, however, feel that the other half of it, the part Narag suggested, about 80s Real Robot anime being a realist reaction to the idealism of 70s Super Robot anime, holds up though. None of it is as scathing a review of those shows as Neon Genesis Evangelion, but that the genre moved away from almost every working piece of the status quo strikes me as telling.

There is also a shift in market trends, I suppose. If gritty war stories were what sold then gritty war stories are what were going to get made. The question links back to what I've been pondering in that there's still the "why were those what sold?" going on.

I grant that all of this is a much larger and more sweeping topic than perhaps an anime thread ought to consider. It's definitely beyond the scope of a guy who hasn't even graduated college to answer it in any truly satisfactory way, but as someone who has an interest in what makes a culture tick at a given time, its a fun way to sort of look a little deeper at one of my hobbies.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
Defuser said:
Look at this shit. Asuna is barely in SAO II yet she ranks over Sinon as number #1.
Click to expand...

Man what the heck Jotaro how do you lose to two incest dudes. This what you get for being a mom-con instead of a sis-con breh.

Also Kira and Lacus remaining on these things indefinitely is the greatest prank of all time. Jesus just cannot lose.
 
C

CorvoSol

Member
jbug617 said:
I don't find anything really wrong with the 1st half of SAO. It just got dumb in the 2nd half.
Click to expand...

The first half isn't as obviously bad as the second, but it still has some horrid things happening. Specifically Asuna, alleged badass general, let's Kirito fight Heathcliff for her freedom rather than 1) telling Heathcliff she isn't property and she can leave when she damn well pleases and 2) doing that herself since she's supposed to be a badass warrior general lady.

Honestly Asuna's character is simultaneously my favorite and most hated from that show. At times she's like, the only human on there, like when she broke down because she wanted her relationship with Kirito to be -real- and not just in video games. But at other times the show has this perverse need to continue to remove and marginalize her.

Imagine if Princess Leia were introduced as a Jedi Knight and after hooking up with Han she became continually less relevant and you have Asuna.
 
A

amishpriest99

Member
CorvoSol said:
Eventually I need to start the second season, I guess, but I've been so busy with shows that are good for the human soul that I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it yet.
Click to expand...

I may finish it someday, but likewise, I've got enough good (or potentially good) stuff to watch that I can wait indefinitely.
 
C

cajunator

Banned
CorvoSol said:
The first half isn't as obviously bad as the second, but it still has some horrid things happening. Specifically Asuna, alleged badass general, let's Kirito fight Heathcliff for her freedom rather than 1) telling Heathcliff she isn't property and she can leave when she damn well pleases and 2) doing that herself since she's supposed to be a badass warrior general lady.

Honestly Asuna's character is simultaneously my favorite and most hated from that show. At times she's like, the only human on there, like when she broke down because she wanted her relationship with Kirito to be -real- and not just in video games. But at other times the show has this perverse need to continue to remove and marginalize her.

Imagine if Princess Leia were introduced as a Jedi Knight and after hooking up with Han she became continually less relevant and you have Asuna.
Click to expand...

Asuna is a piece of cardboard, and not even a pretty one.
 
M

Midonin

Member
Prisma Illya 2wei 10 + Final Thoughts

I can review this a little easier knowing that it's only part one of two, though it be a part two itself. Plus there's that OVA coming at some point. It's the first seasonal anime I really reviewed on GAF, my intro to the Type-Moon universe, and also my favorite part of it. While the first season was CCS-like and slightly meta, this one was moving towards making it a genuine part of the Fate universe. Kuro's very presence, and Illya retaining her true nature to the mainline universe, gave it more of its own identity as a magical girl series... by incorporating more elements from its parent series, but that's the nature of a franchise.

I also liked that the daily life side of it was fleshed out. Most magical girls slowly lose contact with their circles of Muggle friends as they get more involved in magical dealings, but Kuro only strengthened Illya's bond with her friends. Tatsuko's the best. Chiwa Saito did a great job as Kuro, too. It's pretty clear who the Eighth Card is, and the show assumes you know as well, and I'm not sure when the next season is even going to debut. But more than UBW, more than the Heaven's Feel films, this is what I'll be waiting for next.

Though the other two will certainly provide more context.

A season well done, but the story's far from over.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
CorvoSol said:
Layzner #7, well, sort of.
Click to expand...

Good post. Don't really have anything to add, but I do think it would be interesting to examine the sort-of backlash Andrew J. was talking about as well.

PhantomOfTheKnight said:
While I'm not sure it succeeds with this episode, at least it tried. Also, new OP is meh.
Click to expand...

YOU'RE MEH.

Mature said:
Are those Gundam Seed characters?
Click to expand...

Of course! You don't know of the ten year streak?

Theonik said:
ftfy
Click to expand...

It's on purpose!
 
F

Femmeworth

Banned
Usagi Drop Ep. 5

The first episode I've found interesting since the first. Otherwise I've found it to be a bit too fluffy, and I definitely see where firehawk is coming from with his complaints. I'm rather worried what they are going to do with
Rin's biological mother.
I'm already bracing for the worst but the show is at least treating it with some nuance. I'm glad that
she has been introduced this early and won't be used as a carrot on a stick saved until the end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

E3 2001-2003 Show Floor Games
Event Retro
46
4K
Hudo replied
TGS 2024 official live stream program schedule
36
2K
SyberWolf replied
Modern Vintage Gamer: Playing Retro Emulators on the Nintendo 64
Retro Trailer Hardware
1
863
magnumpy replied
Digital Foundry: Retro Marathon: Sony PlayStation/ PSOne - Every Launch Game Tested!
32
2K
sachos replied
Sony Interactive Entertainment announces full TGS 2024 lineup, schedule
News
32
2K
Punished Miku replied
Top Bottom