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Super Best Friends Thread 13: "The Storm Has Come And So Have I" 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2

That's actually great, and I really like most of the changes and don't see downside for most, a few of them have some pros and cons, but I don't think I'm gonna mind much. I at least sympathize with how slapping a brown sphere on a boss looks stupid, but eh.
Plus:

Obviously this is dumb. There's an argument to be for a couple of the changes, but the vast majority are pretty much pure improvements.

I don't want poorly designed aspects of the game to get streamlined and improved so that new players might not get turned off by it nooooooooo! Any change is bad change, everything should stay the way it is!

Anyone that claims to feel that Nintendo alienated the fans of the game with the changes is absolutely being selfish and petty about about it. There's so much being fixed about the outdated nature of the game, that a few changes you might not like, but others definitely will (I personally don't mind a lot of the changes and think the ice arrow change is so nothing just because of how useless they are anyway). If you're really wanting Nintendo to risk appealing to a wider audience by not adding in these kind of changes to the game, just to make you happy, what other word can you use to describe it, but selfish?

That sounds more like balance changes than changing the way the game works or the story or whatever.
The quest name thing I would understand it being upsetting if Majora's Mask was the type of game with a journal that gave you detailed clues on where to go for quests to begin with.
But I don't remember the N64 Zelda games being that remotely indepth, so I think that's fine to help you find your way.


Because that'll be next after Peal, I'm milking the 4th and 5th gen for everything they have, there are Pokemon in D/P that Platinum doesn't have.

The bomber's notebook was pretty useless in the original MM. And the world and its characters is a lot more in depth and fleshed out than OoT's world is since it constantly changes in the 3 day cycle, making it difficult to keep track of everything going on. This certainly helps.
 

Xiraiya

Member
Depends on how you execute said streamlining. Working through poorly designed aspects of the game can be satisfying once you get the hang of it and get through it, but I'm not sure whether that would have been a superior first-time experience compared to a more well paced, well designed version of the same game. There's definitely enjoyment to be found within conquering hardship, but that hardship needs to be intentionally and properly implemented within the game, rather than be the result of poor planning or merely an oversight. I wouldn't want a STALKER game to be dumbed down, as the hardship the game brings with it adds to the bleak, survival-based experience. DayZ's terribly obtuse and messy inventory system on the other hand doesn't really add to the experience and streamlining that aspect wouldn't influence the game negatively. Streamlining aspects of a game would often only harm the game if it takes something away from the core mechanic/experience of said game; it is not inherently a way to dumb down your game.

I understand your point about Skyrim and I agree, but it's not entirely the same situation. Skyrim is a standalone game rather than the remaster of a previous game and it belongs within the RPG genre, two qualities that matter separately. Morrowind was more complex and thorough in practically every aspect of its being and going from such a game to the significantly dumbed down and more repetitive Skyrim is understandably disappointing. One might get the feeling that the franchise is regressing and there isn't really too much we can do about it. Majora's Mask on the other hand is an already existing game, one that is somewhat easily findable and playable (I don't know if it's on the Wii U eshop, but it certainly was on the Wii shop) and the 3DS version is simply a different version of the same game. I certainly did not mind the more inefficient, messy parts of it, but I don't think removing some of those inefficiencies would necessary change the game entirely. The 3DS version is not merely made for people like me, it is also for those who were perhaps too young to have played it in the past or simply never got the chance to do so. And for them, as long as they don't suddenly decide to genuinely dumb down dungeon, side-mission or enemy design, I don't think streamlining some original flaws would strongly hamper the experience.

Aside from that, RPGs are inherently more complex than action adventure games and streamlining the former will change the game significantly more than streamlining the latter. Customization, freedom and combat/dialog/whatever options are somewhat central to your average RPG and those are also generally the aspects that get "streamlined" or dumbed down. I doubt Link losing the speed boost when spinning as a deku scrub is going to change the game's feel entirely, as its more core elements don't seem to be altered too much.

I basically agree streamlining should be a way to make a game work/flow better overall without changing how the game functions/feels.

However, it is too often from what I have seen that streamlining in games is just used as an excuse to make the game less difficult or simpler in the context of "watering down" a game, so it has a pretty bad stigma associated in some cases as some developers/publishers definitely use it as an excuse.

In the case of MM, from what I played and remember of the game, most of the changes sound pretty practical and minimal, so I would agree with streamlining in that context.
 
Anyone that claims to feel that Nintendo alienated the fans of the game with the changes is absolutely being selfish and petty about about it. There's so much being fixed about the outdated nature of the game, that a few changes you might not like, but others definitely will (I personally don't mind a lot of the changes and think the ice arrow change is so nothing just because of how useless they are anyway). If you're really wanting Nintendo to risk appealing to a wider audience by not adding in these kind of changes to the game, just to make you happy, what other word can you use to describe it, but selfish?.
The differences sorta remind me of Twin Snakes, just in how people are reacting to the changes, though it doesn't compare in terms of the actual differences.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious these people are primarily concerned about getting themselves a portable version of Majora in the same way as OoT, with the minor improvements like bottom screen item switching and such. They just see these changes as ruining the game for those people that would want another version to play. So yeah, I guess selfish is the word.
 
The differences sorta remind me of Twin Snakes, just in how people are reacting to the changes, though it doesn't compare in terms of the actual differences.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious these people are primarily concerned about getting themselves a portable version of Majora in the same way as OoT, with the minor improvements like bottom screen item switching and such. They just see these changes as ruining the game for those people that would want another version to play. So yeah, I guess selfish is the word.

There are actually people complaining that the Goron roll shouldn't be changed to press A instead of holding A even though holding down A and moving the camera on the right stick would be fucking impossible.

Its just insanity.
 

Xiraiya

Member
The differences sorta remind me of Twin Snakes, just in how people are reacting to the changes, though it doesn't compare in terms of the actual differences.

I played through MGS1 multiple times and I've played through MGSTTS 3 or 4 times at this point, my only real complaint about it is the removal of Enclosure from the Sniper Wolf scene.

I really have no issues with that game, yeah it's WAY more action movie than MGS1 was, but look at MGS2 and even more so 3, if anything I feel like Twin Snakes fits with those games better than MGS1 does
Aside from the fact they're all on the same Engine.
. I just wish Licensing crap didn't keep it on Nintendo, a HD version in the legacy collection next to 2 and 3 would have been fantastic.

MGS1 will always be MGS1, but Twin Snakes is fine too.
 
Jojo part 4 spoilers

Oh shit! Ghost baby just came into play! Not the ghost baby! How will rps kid survive?
What the fuck is even happening right now?
 
I'm really looking forward to P4D. I should actually get Project Diva for my Vita. Which one should I get? The 1st or 2nd one?
I'm more inclined by the 2nd because that's physical her.e
 
I'm really looking forward to P4D. I should actually get Project Diva for my Vita. Which one should I get? The 1st or 2nd one?
I'm more inclined by the 2nd because that's physical her.e
Listen to the songs and decide IMO, but the linked star notes in F 2nd are apparently really annoying.
 

Village

Member
Fuck it, I give up.

Sorry if i made you mad, but all i'm doing is using the definition of the word.

Objective is to represent fact and to judge with out personal bias, in situation and your opinion on this situation by definition is not objective.

And that is objective.

Opinions can definitely be good or bad. You may not be able to necessarily have a right or wrong opinion, but you can certainly have a bad one. If you choose to put your opinion out there without substantiation, then expect it to be criticized, judged, and refuted. An opinion is not a shield, it is something that needs to be defended.

.

Which is also your opinion funny enough. Also if that statement was for me, I already defended my observations on yosuke.
 

croten

Member
I'm really looking forward to P4D. I should actually get Project Diva for my Vita. Which one should I get? The 1st or 2nd one?
I'm more inclined by the 2nd because that's physical her.e

1 is supposedly much easier so go with that. I started with 2nd and it's pretty damn difficult but I like it regardless
 
I played MGS1 multiple times and I've played MGSTTS 3 or 4 times at this point, my only real complaint about it is the removal of Enclosure from the Sniper Wolf theme.

I really have no issues with that game, yeah it's WAY more action movie than MGS1 was, but look at MGS2 and even more so 3, if anything I feel like Twin Snakes fits with those games better than MGS1 does
Aside from the fact they're all on the same Engine
.

I just wish Licensing crap didn't keep it on Nintendo, a HD version in the legacy collection next to 2 and 3 would have been fantastic.
Except that the additions to Twin Snakes are actually for the worse because the rest of the game wasn't properly updated to facilitate them. First person aiming fucking breaks that game.
 
Sorry if i made you mad, but all i'm doing is using the definition of the word.

Objective is to represent fact and to judge with out personal bias, in situation and your opinion on this situation by definition is not objective.

And that is objective.



Which is also your opinion funny enough. Also if that statement was for me, I already defended my observations on yosuke.
Village is back? My old nemesis...
And up to your old tricks again with your insane definitions of an opinion, even.
 

Xiraiya

Member
Except that the additions to Twin Snakes are actually for the worse because the rest of the game wasn't properly updated to facilitate them. First person aiming fucking breaks that game.

You say that, but yet what about the japan only release of Integral? MGS1 with first person aiming on the PSX.
I'm not arguing that the game wasn't easy, it was, so was 2 and 3, first person aiming in all of those games make everything infinitely easier than it ever would be without that mode.

I'm just pointing out that it wasn't something they did on a whim to piss people off.
 
This fuckin' xenogears dialogue is ridiculous

Xenogears is pretty insane. I adore that entire franchise.

I think part of the reason they're screaming is because they think it'll completely change the feel of the original game and provide an inferior experience to new players, which is something I disagree with in this case.

I wish that was it, from the way a lot of the complaints are explained in that thread, its purely hating on the changes from a selfish standpoint without explaining why it is like that other than "its not as good or the same thing as I want it to be"
 
You say that, but yet what about the japan only release of Integral? MGS1 with first person aiming on the PSX.
I'm not arguing that the game wasn't easy, it was, so was 2 and 3, first person aiming in all of those games make everything infinitely easier than it ever would be without that mode.

I'm just pointing out that it wasn't something they did on a whim to piss people off.
Yeah, I'm with grumpy gin on this one. MGS 1 orig was the only challenging mgs.
 

Village

Member
Village is back? My old nemesis...
And up to your old tricks again with your insane definitions of an opinion, even.

... wat?

I never gave an insane definition of an opinion, my argument is that this persons opinion can not be objective.


By the definition of the word objective.

Which is a thing... you can look up... on google... right now.

Google objective right now, do it please.
 
That's the name. Haven't seen it enough for it to stick yet.
You better recognize!
tumblr_mh29acbpk01r6mrcio4_500.gif

Jojo part 4 spoilers

There's aliens in this? What is going on?
Jojo part 4 is a masterpiece.
 
ARE YOU REALLY FEELING IT THO?
Wrong game
... wat?

I never gave an insane definition of an opinion, my argument is that this persons opinion can not be objective.


By the definition of the word objective.

Which is a thing... you can look up... on google... right now.

Google objective right now, do it please.
We've had this argument and you're stubborn and wrong and it will go nowhere and I'm not gonna.
 
I really wish the Wii version of Xenoblade wouldn't cost me a lot. But seeing as I'm getting a N3DS anyway and it comes out a few weeks after I get one I guess I could pick up the 3D port and get really annoyed at it like I did with DKCR3D.

But at least I can make "I'm not feeling it" jokes throughout playing it.
 

mike0dude

Member
I played neither of those games, well I did try xenogears back in the days when my friend came over with his ps1 but I didn't understand anything.
I should play it again.
 

croten

Member
I really wish the Wii version of Xenoblade wouldn't cost me a lot. But seeing as I'm getting a N3DS anyway and it comes out a few weeks after I get one I guess I could pick up the 3D port and get really annoyed at it like I did with DKCR3D.

But at least I can make "I'm not feeling it" jokes throughout playing it.

Wait for the inevitable downloadable version for the Wii U
 
Wait for the inevitable downloadable version for the Wii U

It is what I want. But I can see Nintendo not doing it because they're annoying and want to sell the 3DS version. Or at least in a few years time or long after Xenoblade X is out. I didn't want to be excited for X either, but I'm really feeling it now.
 
Funny thing is that all the games are basically completely different.

Xenosaga 1 is the only game that's even remotely similar to Xenogears. Xenosaga 3 does have a ton of references to Xenogears (to the point where its pretty obviously more than just references) But yeah, the rest of the games are leagues different, in quality/story/characters/gameplay.
 
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