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Super Best Friends Thread 8: "You know, we really are the Super Best Friends Play"

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C

croten

Member
cdstephens said:
Eeeegh, I liked the characters in DA2 more (muh Anders), and disliked how the areas in DA:O were separate and didn't feel like a complete world. If you were arguing about Awakening I'd agree with you, but I found most of the characters in vanilla Origins rather boring.

As for the overarching story both of them suck compared to ME1 and the KOTORs.

Maybe I'm just a sucker for sarcastic female Hawke

That's just my experience after playing the two games back to back.
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Ah yes Hawk. My main gripe with the game. In DA:O I could be any race, and the mattered to the plot. My class mattered to the plot. In DA 2 I was just some normal human dude.
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
Aaron-Lagann said:
Hey, you know what I fucking hate? Dragon Age Inquisition. What a waste of goddamn money. This is the least amount of fun I've had playing any game in a long-ass time.

My favorite Dragon Age is 2, what is wrong with me that I only enjoy the ones that nobody else does?
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I loved DA2, but I fucking adore inquisition.
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
GuardianE said:
This sounds like someone that doesn't know anything about fighting games. I'm not saying that disparagingly, because most people don't, but it also means that you have a different set of value judgments than the people the genre caters to.
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I know enough, it's true I'm not as enthusiastic about them as Matt or Woolie because I just don't like breaking a game down to numbers and mechanics and nothing else in order to be better at it, it stops being a game at that point. So I do get the reasoning of "The mechanics are everything" in a fighting game.
 
C

CrackPebbles

Member
Xiraiya said:
My point was, I just think DOA is pointless and I call bullshit on peoples reasons for defending it, that game looks the way it does and is as shallow as it is because those visuals serve a specific purpose, otherwise why would they be there?

The arguments here are in the same vein as being like "Well don't judge this porno, it's got a wonderful story of a Pizza delivery guy"
I have no issues with Bayonetta, the sexualization in that game is of a completely different context to DOA, if people can't differentiate than I don't know what to tell them.

The argument for DOA was only ever the fighting mechanics, really? nothing else about that game? No one is defending it's story, or it's well developed and deep characters or anything?
Plenty of other games have good fighting mechanics while also having many other good aspects.

I'm sorry, but being like "But the mechanics tho" comes across as an excuse, and even if that is not the case, that is just one part of the game out of all the things in it, I'm looking at the entire game, the whole package of everything together, how I think a game should be looked at, if the mechanics are that good then I say put them in a better series.
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The problem(after of course, ignoring your disregard for the simplicity of said Bayo comparison and focusing on the context of the game's sexualization despite the fact) is that you seem to completely disregard a franchise as pointless because its aesthetic choices don't appeal to you. Implying that mechanical depth and fine tuned balance are irrelevant because of the way the game is marketed.

You're saying that the games quality serves as an 'excuse' to defend its sexualization. When in reality both of these factors contribute to the games appeal and success.
 
C

croten

Member
Xiraiya said:
I know enough, it's true I'm not as enthusiastic about them as Matt or Woolie because I just don't like breaking a game down to numbers and mechanics and nothing else in order to be better at it, it stops being a game at that point. So I do get the reasoning of "The mechanics are everything" in a fighting game.
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So you get that the main appeal of every fighting game is the gameplay. Which is what we are defending.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Xiraiya said:
I know enough, it's true I'm not as enthusiastic about them as Matt or Woolie because I just don't like breaking a game down to numbers and mechanics and nothing else in order to be better at it, it stops being a game at that point. So I do get the reasoning of "The mechanics are everything" in a fighting game.
Click to expand...

If you do, then you're not showing it. It's not just raw numbers. It's about kinetic response, gravity, weight, and overall feel of a game in addition to the mechanics, character diversity, balance, etc.. These are the actual substantive parts of a fighting game that you're readily dismissing as excuses.
 
B

Banana Aeon

Member
Xiraiya said:
.
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It's a fighting game. Like character action games, the gameplay is all that's there. Superficial details, like stories are bonuses, not requirements.

The game, mechanically, is sound. It has the rock-paper-scissor mechanic, built around the counter system, something that has not been repeated elsewhere. The series, besides DoA4 and Dimensions, isn't terrible, and are pretty fun fighters, and DoA5 is fantastic.

That's more than enough reasons to exist. A better series? What, based around characters that you don't find issue with. Stop taking an issue with the characters then.

Hell, if I had it my way, all the characters would be diseased, rotting bodies, or other similar blights afflicted on them.

It's funny that I didn't notice the fanservice, until I was sixteen, and still to this day, I don't understand how DoA was the only one called out it, with Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur existing.
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
Aaron-Lagann said:
I'm only a few hours in, but I'm bored to death with every aspect of it right now.
Click to expand...

Plow through the story until you get the castle. If you're still not invested by then, give up.

Seriously though, I met the villain, I had character development, some shit went down, and this game just got way better.
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
Xiraiya said:
I know enough, it's true I'm not as enthusiastic about them as Matt or Woolie because I just don't like breaking a game down to numbers and mechanics and nothing else in order to be better at it, it stops being a game at that point. So I do get the reasoning of "The mechanics are everything" in a fighting game.
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Yahtzee5.jpg
soyouwanna-learn-play-poker-1452.jpg
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Not games confirmed

EDIT: Reread post, understood it this time, NVM
 
C

cdstephens

Member
croten said:
Ah yes Hawk. My main gripe with the game. In DA:O I could be any race, and the mattered to the plot. My class mattered to the plot. In DA 2 I was just some normal human dude.
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Meh, I didn't feel like my origins impacted the story significantly enough for me to care. I was expecting something more like TOR I suppose with a class and race story for the entire game.
 
P

PfantzyPantz

Member
croten said:
I told you motherfuckers. DMC5 is happening
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I know I should expect DMC5, but it's just so hard to not be cynical with Capcom. This really is their time to explode and bring out all the big guns they've been crafting, so I am fully on board the hype train (and slightly expecting to be crushed ;_;)
 
C

croten

Member
cdstephens said:
Meh, I didn't feel like my origins impacted the story significantly enough for me to care. I was expecting something more like TOR I suppose with a class and race story for the entire game.
Click to expand...

It didn't matter in the grand scheme of things but there are so many changes to the game depending on what you start of as. I guess I like DA:O more because it's classic Bioware and DA2 is just a cheap ME game.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
CrackPebbles said:
Welp, Its about time I officially board this hype train.

The trauma of this event is going to haunt me for quite some time if we don't get it at this point. Im scared to believe.
Click to expand...

If we don't get DMC5, I will probably cry and drink. Not necessarily in that order.
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
CrackPebbles said:
The problem(after of course, ignoring your disregard for the simplicity of said Bayo comparison and focusing on the context of the game's sexualization despite the fact) is that you seem to completely disregard a franchise as pointless because its aesthetic choices don't appeal to you. Implying that mechanical depth and fine tuned balance are irrelevant because of the way the game is marketed.

You're saying that the games quality serves as an 'excuse' to defend its sexualization. When in reality both of these factors contribute to the games appeal and success.
Click to expand...

croten said:
So you get that the main appeal of every fighting game is the gameplay. Which is what we are defending.
Click to expand...

GuardianE said:
If you do, then you're not showing it. It's not just raw numbers. It's about kinetic response, gravity, weight, and overall feel of a game in addition to the mechanics, character diversity, balance, etc.. These are the actual substantive parts of a fighting game that you're readily dismissing as excuses.
Click to expand...

I see your points, how refreshing. I can understand more now how you guys look at DOA as opposed to how I've seen other people look at the series so frequently in the past, which was part of my problem with it, but it does make sense how a game is shown visually is less relevant in the case of fighting games. If I was as enthusiastic about fighting games, then I still think I would refrain from playing DOA if I could help it simply because regardless of how good they might feel, I just wouldn't want to play characters like that, my favorite fighting games over the years have been Soul Calibur 2, Tekken 3 and 5, and Bloody Roar Primary fury.

This is why I like NeoGAF over other places.

cdstephens said:
Have you played it before? Or just starting up?
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I've played it a bunch of times over the years, I played it the week it came out way back in 2004, great game, buggy and awkward at times, but still pretty great. I installed the Unofficial Patch and the +Patch (Which I may or may not already regret as I like some stuff being added back in that wasn't in the original game but don't really like some of the changes, such as skill books being moved)
 
C

croten

Member
Xiraiya said:
I see your points, how refreshing. I can understand more now how you guys look at DOA as opposed to how I've seen other people look at the series so frequently in the past, which was part of my problem with it, but it does make sense how a game is shown visually is less relevant in the case of fighting games. If I was as enthusiastic about fighting games, then I still think I would refrain from playing DOA if I could help it simply because regardless of how good they might feel, I just wouldn't want to play characters like that, my favorite fighting games over the years have been Soul Calibur 2, Tekken 3 and 5, and Bloody Roar Primary fury.

This is why I like NeoGAF over other places.
Click to expand...

That's weird. Soul cal and Tekken have their fair share of fanservice characters as well. I'd actually say Soul Cal is worse that DOA
 
C

cdstephens

Member
croten said:
Yes. Yes oh god yes. DMC 1,3 and 4 are some of the greatest games ever made.


And that Japan can make PC ports better than most western devs if they actually put in the effort
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Would they be worth picking up now? Only games I played like that are Revengeance (love it!) and DmC (the new one, didn't like it).

Also something bad happen to 2?
 
I

IDKAboutThat

Member
Banana Aeon said:
Itsuno is still trapped in his closet, and Neo_G is doing something.

It will be good, as long as those two remain.
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Sure. As long as they didn't give it to Musso because Hyrule Warriors was a success, and this isn't a pachinko machine, and it isn't for phones, and they don't decide that the reason DmC did bad was because it was too complicated and repeat DMC history, and one of a million other things doesn't fail. Sure. It'll be great.
 
C

croten

Member
cdstephens said:
Would they be worth picking up now? Only games I played like that are Revengeance (love it!) and DmC (the new one, didn't like it).

Also something bad happen to 2?
Click to expand...

DMC 1 is dated but still good. DMC 3 holds up well and DMC4 is near perfect.

DMC2 never happened
 
C

CrackPebbles

Member
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
cdstephens said:
Would they be worth picking up now? Only games I played like that are Revengeance (love it!) and DmC (the new one, didn't like it).

Also something bad happen to 2?
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They are worth picking up without question. DMC1 and DMC3 invented the action game genre and the stylish character action genre respectively. The HD Collection belongs in everyone's library.

By and large, DMC2 has been essentially divorced from the series. It's a poor game, an extremely poor action game, and an abominable DMC title.

It's been strongly implied that DMC2 was never intended to be a DMC game, but was an existing working project that was pushed into being DMC's sequel after the first sold so well. The game was a slow and clunky mess, with poor level/enemy design, overpowered gun spamming, muddy graphics, bad music, and a Dante completely devoid of personality. Itsuno, the director of DMC3, was brought late into development to fix it, but it was too far gone at that point.
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
croten said:
That's weird. Soul cal and Tekken have their fair share of fanservice characters as well. I'd actually say Soul Cal is worse that DOA
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Fighting games always have *some* fan service, Taki or whoever had the full body suit thing I think was the worst offender in SC2 but I don't really remember anyone being especially bad, I usually just played Siegfried.

Maragidyne said:
Last Soul Cal game I played was 2, so I can't even comprehend this sentence.
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Exactly, I'm pretty sure I mentioned SC2 specifically and not the SC series, if it's that bad now, that's disappointing.
 
3

360pages

Member
Writing is pretty tough. I wouldn't mind changing location for the next arc of my story. The Town honestly doesn't feel very interesting.

I also wouldn't mind having a new cast of characters for the next arc as well. Though then I might just make another story for it,
 
C

cdstephens

Member
Xiraiya said:
I've played it a bunch of times over the years, I played it the week it came out way back in 2004, great game, buggy and awkward at times, but still pretty great. I installed the Unofficial Patch and the +Patch (Which I may or may not already regret as I like some stuff being added back in that wasn't in the original game but don't really like some of the changes, such as skill books being moved)
Click to expand...

Ah OK, I just played it this past year with the patches. Pretty great, but boy are the last 30 minutes rough. I think I skipped it and just watched the cutscene online.
 
A

ArclightBorealis

Member
croten said:
Well the last DOA I played was DOA2 so I don't actually know how bad it got.
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The DOA games didn't have a huge drop off in quality after 2 comparable to Soul Calibur, but by the time 4 came around, things were noticeable that it wasn't as solid as before.

DOA 5 Ultimate is the best the series has been, though. Ninja Dog Hayashi can't make action games for shit, but he somehow made a better fighting game than Itagaki ever could.
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
I want a fighting game series that is basically Dark Souls in Fighting game form, thematically and even in story telling.

Maragidyne said:
Taki and Ivy were pretty bad, but I can't remember any more than that.
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Ivy was up there, but she was less offensive on account of just looking a tad more classy, not by much though.
 
Z

Zenfalcia

Member
Xiraiya said:
I want a fighting game series that is basically Dark Souls in Fighting game form, thematically and even in story telling.
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How would that work? It cant exactly be open world and a lot of dark souls' fighting is 3d and putting it on a 2d plane would make it too different. Or do you want it to be like Sould calibre?
 
X

Xiraiya

Member
Zenfalcia said:
How would that work? It cant exactly be open world and a lot of dark souls' fighting is 3d and putting it on a 2d plane would make it too different. Or do you want it to be like Sould calibre?
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No no no, I just mean, basically take Soul Calibur and replace it with various Dark Souls characters with cool little story descriptions and Dark souls themed stages, music etc.

So yes, basically Dark Souls Calibur.
 
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