Super Mario 64 DS: I'm just not feelin' it...
- Thread starter john tv
- Start date
Jesus, there's a lot of anecdotal evidence in this thread.
Anyway, I think a good middle ground is...
...yes the graphics look much better. See it in motion, and it looks like a second/third generation N64 game. It's really quite impressive for that little thing. It has been a pleasant surprise. This is not even open to debate. People are acting like there's some sort of interesting canyon where you either like or dislike these visuals [more than] the N64 version. No, the DS version is better. Period. Higher polygon count, better framerate and an improved color scheme. It's no question. If you doubt it, play the game on the DS.
...no, the controls are not better. Stop dellusioning yourself. They are neither as accurate nor as responsive as the analog control. No control scheme for Mario 64 DS can live up to the perfection achieved in Mario 64 analog control, and it's as simple as that. If you're having an easier time playing Mario 64 DS with the current controls, it's because you sucked shit back when you played Mario 64 on N64.
That said...
...yes, the controls still work pretty well. They are not broken. If you spend a lot of time getting used to it (like I did), it will eventually come to such a level where you can actually be pretty good at it. In the end, if you could give the controls a score out of 10... I'd give it a 7/10.
Anyway, I think a good middle ground is...
...yes the graphics look much better. See it in motion, and it looks like a second/third generation N64 game. It's really quite impressive for that little thing. It has been a pleasant surprise. This is not even open to debate. People are acting like there's some sort of interesting canyon where you either like or dislike these visuals [more than] the N64 version. No, the DS version is better. Period. Higher polygon count, better framerate and an improved color scheme. It's no question. If you doubt it, play the game on the DS.
...no, the controls are not better. Stop dellusioning yourself. They are neither as accurate nor as responsive as the analog control. No control scheme for Mario 64 DS can live up to the perfection achieved in Mario 64 analog control, and it's as simple as that. If you're having an easier time playing Mario 64 DS with the current controls, it's because you sucked shit back when you played Mario 64 on N64.
That said...
...yes, the controls still work pretty well. They are not broken. If you spend a lot of time getting used to it (like I did), it will eventually come to such a level where you can actually be pretty good at it. In the end, if you could give the controls a score out of 10... I'd give it a 7/10.
Smiles and Cries
Member
this debate wont end 
Kobun Heat
Member
For what it's worth, although I did try all the different control schemes and wasn't immediately drawn to any of them, I just stuck with the D-Pad and don't have much of an issue with it. After about 85 stars, I do still die a little more than I think I should, but Mario 64's the kind of game where you can die over and over and not lose *that* much ground, so the learning curve isn't too annoying.
All the same, I like the minigames more and will probably like Wario much, much more.
All the same, I like the minigames more and will probably like Wario much, much more.
Spiritreaver
Member
This is why I love you. I completely and totally agree. Why can't more people think this way and stop dancing around issues to the point where something is entirely good or bad? It's a decent game that takes the original to greater lengths, but also drops a few props along the way. Anything else that's said is going too far.Amir0x said:
EDIT: And the discussion continues as always. I'm not getting into, and it's a personal issue. If the controls hinder your enjoyment, there's nothing else that can be done to get around that. I would agree that not even the minigames redeem the poor enjoyment of the main quest. But trolls calling people who like the controls fanboys, and fanboys calling people who dislike the controls trolls, well, just are not seeing the whole picture. I'm not quite sure where people should stand on this, but being the middle ground might be the best idea as passing either side just ends in touchiness. Saying a game sucks because you can't control it, can't be said in this case I think. While saying the other people suck because they can't control it can't be said either.
But I agree with what someone said earlier. The fact that there is a fuss over controls is a problem. But I do feel the problem is a tad overblown.
Sounds disappointing. Like others, I wish there could be a proper, definitive version of Super Mario 64. The N64 is a bit crusty these days, but DS version has those controls and all the nasty texture problems and such.
Maybe Nintendo DS emulators will enable analog stick support, higher resolutions, and texture filtering.
Maybe Nintendo DS emulators will enable analog stick support, higher resolutions, and texture filtering.
olimario said:
He may just be referring to the lack of texture filtering. I've only had the chance to briefly play the game, and while I think it looks and moves wonderfully, the lack of said filtering IS noticable, small screen or no. I haven't played it enough to speak either way concerning its controls, although I suspect the DS could grow on me, it just requires a substancial investment of time in overcoming the control learning curve...and I've been using PDAs for years.
Spiritreaver
Member
The textures do look blech up close, due to the lack of filtering I believe. Though, this is heavily outweighed by all that the DS versions advance in term of graphics, in comparison to the N64 version. I think pana's impressions explain best.. I should dig them up.olimario said:
I agree w/ most of the posts on both sides of the fence, I suppose. Yes, it could be more intuitive, but the DS is not a portable N64. I understand why people are frustrated w/ Nintendo for making the first game for the system a port of a game that defined N64 gaming, but the results are not nearly as horrible (for me) as some people here claim (and though I certainly agree that if there are this many complaints something might be wrong, I remember people complaining about Mario 64's controls at first too...). I would probably rate the controls a 7 or 8 out of 10 myself, but the total package would be closer to a 9.
It's pretty obvious they released THIS GAME over all others as a first effort simply because it makes it easier for you to learn how to use the stylus. You already know pretty much where to go and what to do in the game, so it's just a matter of taking your time and learning how to use the controls.
So instead of comparing it to Mario 64 or trying to say it should be something else, just fucking play it long enough to learn how to use a touch screen. Duh.
So instead of comparing it to Mario 64 or trying to say it should be something else, just fucking play it long enough to learn how to use a touch screen. Duh.
Spiritreaver
Member
I liked your post before the edit.border said:
IAWTP.
Also, Mario 64 was clearly designed to slowly teach you a new control scheme. There is no danger for the first few minutes. There is no time limit. There is little penalty for dying early on.
It scarcely matters what the control scheme is because the game design supports a learning curve.
Also, Mario 64 was clearly designed to slowly teach you a new control scheme. There is no danger for the first few minutes. There is no time limit. There is little penalty for dying early on.
It scarcely matters what the control scheme is because the game design supports a learning curve.
Ecrofirt said:
I have yet to play with a DS, thumbstrap or otherwise, so I have no idea how well this would actually work. That said:
Office supply stores sell finger-pads in a variety of sizes for virtually nothing. Staples has 'em priced at $2 for a dozen.
FnordChan
Drinky Crow
Banned
Unfiltered, wibbling textures with seams are nasty. SM64 DS is basically Super Mario Playstation. Would you kids have shit bricks for it if this identical game had been on Sony's evil EVIL hardware? I remember how texture filtering and analog control were *THE* reasons SM64 (and other 3D platformers) would NEVER EVER be of the same caliber on the Playstation.
D'OH!
D'OH!
FortNinety
Member
I think the problem here is that folks can't handle the idea of multiple control schemes. There seems to be some dumb train of thought that such a move "proves" that they couldn't decided upon one single good manner.
Also, this whole using a touch screen is so different that it's just leaving Nintendo open for a bit of unfair criticism.
Many of the games we first played back in the day had less than perfect control schemes, but since we had no real alternatives, or anything else to look at as other examples, we all got used to it.
Guess that's why progress sucks...
Also, this whole using a touch screen is so different that it's just leaving Nintendo open for a bit of unfair criticism.
Many of the games we first played back in the day had less than perfect control schemes, but since we had no real alternatives, or anything else to look at as other examples, we all got used to it.
Guess that's why progress sucks...
Drinky Crow said:
Oh come on, you're just exaggerating. On the DS small screen, it doesn't reflect how a PSX game looks at all. It looks like a second/third generation N64 game. Lack of texture filtering is certainly noticeable, but it hardly distracts from the quality of the visuals so much that it becomes a PSX game. That's ridiculous, mang.
Fort Nintey said:
Some would say that it isn't progress, which is why we're having this psuedo-debate!
Drinky Crow
Banned
At BEST it looks like a 2nd/3rd generation PSOne game, *not* a 2nd/3rd generation N64 game (which generally featured MORE hardware effects and worse frame rates, and vastly better alpha than anything seen on the DS). I'll grant that the texture wibbling/seaming isn't as bad as that in early PSOne titles -- it's more of a MGS/Vagrant Story technical level oogly.
Take away the texture filtering, add some cheesy multiplicative lighting effects, have a pseudo/dithered alpha effect, and buff the poly count, and you've got the difference between the N64 and the PSOne.
Take away the texture filtering, add some cheesy multiplicative lighting effects, have a pseudo/dithered alpha effect, and buff the poly count, and you've got the difference between the N64 and the PSOne.
Drinky Crow said:
We're cutting the bread kind of thin here. Vagrant Story and MGS were some of the best looking games on PSX. They were pretty impressive. Now, if Mario 64 DS looks like that - which it doesn't - it's still impressive.
But, come on, you can't really feel this way. The framerate is improved in SM64DS. The colors are much better. The amount of polygons used are higher. And, of course, it's the lack of texture filtering that is emphasized... and it's not even that big of a deal on a small screen!
Would you at the very least acknowledge that it looks better than the N64 version of Mario 64? Come on, be a sport!
seismologist
Banned
Mike said:
I think the control scheme is perfect for the hardware. After some practice it feels perfectly natural dragging the target around the touch screen to move Mario.
The learning curve for this version of M64 is DIFFICULT. It takes a while to get to the level you were at with the analog stick.
You should have seen me getting stars in Bowsers lair. It was so tense my hands were sweating.
Combine that with trying to get precision out of the touchpad.
It's all skill. Controls aren't the issue here. I'd be interested in seeing some expert videos of people playing Mario DS.
It doesn't surprise me that people are having a hard time with this. It's a different game from the N64 version.
Your average person picking up the game for the first time isn't going to be able to run circles on a small platform using the touch pad. I couldn't do it at first either.
krypt0nian
Banned
Is this thread just an attention thread?
It sure is a time warp thread as we've been talking about it since launch...
It sure is a time warp thread as we've been talking about it since launch...
Mr_Furious
Member
Mario 64 DS sucks and it's an embarrassment to Nintendo that the ONLY game that "showcases" the dual screen/touch screen is a fucking Sega game!!! Nintendo should've worked harder to do something fresh and original to make people pay attention rather than another bullshit milk-job with some new minigames. I can understand those that never played Mario64 but for the rest of you that did (extensively), stop rebuying the same fucking games just to justify your DS purchase. Let Mario 64 DS sit on the damn shelves. That's the only way to let Nintendo know you want original content. Wario Ware Twisted and/or Yoshi's Touch N' Go should've been launch titles and that's that.
As of now, I'm classifying the Nintendo DS as nothing more than a gimmick. I've only seen a handful of games that really show off the touch screen while the majority are just bullshit screen filler/fodder.
As of now, I'm classifying the Nintendo DS as nothing more than a gimmick. I've only seen a handful of games that really show off the touch screen while the majority are just bullshit screen filler/fodder.
oh god.
the ds version looks better, plain and simple, and if you are complaining about lack of texture filtering, you're just lame. the n64 version looked like one big blurry mess, and you think that's better? puhlease.
on the other hand the DS version does not control as well, AT FIRST. In fact at first it controls pretty badly, and had a steap learning curve. however once you get used to it, it become very natural.
the ds version looks better, plain and simple, and if you are complaining about lack of texture filtering, you're just lame. the n64 version looked like one big blurry mess, and you think that's better? puhlease.
on the other hand the DS version does not control as well, AT FIRST. In fact at first it controls pretty badly, and had a steap learning curve. however once you get used to it, it become very natural.
Kobun Heat
Member
Mr_Furious, you do realize that in all probability Wario Ware was pushed back to February so Sega's Feel the Magic, and other third-party games, would get more attention, right?
...no, I guess you don't.
...no, I guess you don't.
krypt0nian
Banned
Kobun Heat said:
Let him rant. It signifies nothing.
krypt0nian
Banned
crumbs said:
Yes Furious didn't have the facts but we're the Thought Police.... :lol
ZombieSupaStar
Member
just remember guys whenever a game comes out with busted controls from now on
we can play the "its intuitive!" card.
Im sure Gunvalkyrie wishes it came out now.
The nintendo 64 pad was designed around mario 64, the DS im pretty sure wasnt.
we can play the "its intuitive!" card.
Im sure Gunvalkyrie wishes it came out now.
The nintendo 64 pad was designed around mario 64, the DS im pretty sure wasnt.
Justin Bailey
------ ------
This thread should've been over at post 102.
krypt0nian
Banned
Justin Bailey said:
IAWTP!
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Unison said:
being that the control scheme in mind when mario 64 was created was with the n64 analog stick and pad layout.
IMO its like u stated
nintendo should have made a flagship title that helps show how great the touchscreen is.
not "well when I get good it will sorta almost be as good as mario 64 controls on the n64"
Justin Bailey
------ ------
Well the mini games take full advantage of the touchscreen, and Wario Ware is definitely going to. Besides if you really want a launch game that takes advantage of just about everything the DS has to offer, see Feel the Magic.ZombieSupaStar said:
It's too bad that Yoshi's Touch & Go wasn't ready for launch. Now there is a great game that really makes use of the DS capabilities to deliver a unique gameplay experience unlike most anything I've seen before. I hope it follows through on the promise of its E3 demo ("Balloon Trip"). It was fun as Hell.