fredrancour
Member
Changes it to "giving me a heart attack." Chasing people off-stage to try to finish kills is so stressful.
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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT| It's out in Japan
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Changes it to "giving me a heart attack." Chasing people off-stage to try to finish kills is so stressful.
MrSaturn99
Member
But what if there are?
Possibly, if the meta game plays out that way. Which, honestly, sounds awesome. Chasing has always been my favorite part of Smash.That beautiful ballet of risk and rewards.
It can either reward aerial battles off-stage or just lead to people waiting for their opponents to come back again and again.
Now that people have played it, I think it's a possibility. Before it was out, I think the notion of wanting it to fail would be ridiculous.
But if the game was released, and it required you to hold X, A, Start, and R while pushing down on the circle pad every time you wanted to jump? Yeah, I would want that to fail.
In similar, less ridiculous ways, the game can still fall short of expectations and/or not be to someone's preference. Then if that person is spiteful or selfish, they would want the game to fail in general.
I think that is something they're trying to encourage. If so though, we have to wonder why they left air dodges as they are... :\
OmegaSmash
Member
I wouldn't mind more air combat if the air dodge wasn't spammable and there was momentum on the jumps.
Poltergust
Member
In all my years of playing Smash competitively, I have never met someone who would want that. If you are hearing that people want this game to fail, that's simply coming from trolls and people who don't care about the game.
People play in tournaments because they love the game and the series. It takes hard work and dedication to travel to competitions for this game. That is why I can guarantee you that everyone who plays this games in this series competitively would want this game to be the best one in the series yet.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Yeah, this really plays wells with the new edge mechanic too. Off stage air battles are hectic and heart racing but...
This is really the crux in all of this.
Air dodge is waaaay too spammable. Probably my only true complaint right now from the demo.
MrSaturn99
Member
The italics were meant to imply that was a joke, but thanks for the insight.
Smash ain't no joke!
KittenMaster
Member
I'm really hoping somebody gets to testing combos instead of testing names of a game mechanic.
The thing with the CPUs is, it's entirely recycled AI from Brawl and that's why they air dodge as soon as hitstun is over. In Brawl, the AI always air dodged to cancel out hitstun but now that "feature" is gone, they simply air dodge after hitstun has passed. I'm pretty sure they are still spamming the input to air dodge like they would in Brawl and that's why it happens.
How do I know this? In PM, before they actually started to work on the AI (or, hell, you can even look to Brawl+ for this) the CPUs would do the exact same thing they do in Smash 4: air dodge immediately after hitstun passes. The reason is because in both those mods, they're using the hitstun code that disables you from canceling hitstun with an air dodge.
So, that's the reason why CPUs air dodge directly after hitstun. Any other time is purely within their reaction range, lower level CPUs won't air dodge as much because their range is much smaller while higher level CPUs will. This is why it's bad to practice against lv. 9s because all they offer to the player is insane reaction time -- they don't perform the behaviors that would be expected of a human player (aka mixing things up rather than always doing the same thing).
As an aside, it doesn't surprise me they would reuse the same AI from Brawl -- having to rewrite that stuff would probably take a lot of time. They probably only rewrote things for specific characters (mainly the newcomers and any changes the veterans received in their move sets). Otherwise, it's pretty much using the same AI as Brawl. Which isn't a bad thing but I do wish it were improved but oh well.
Also, human players are generally afraid to air dodge because of the landing lag they added to them. It somewhat discourages air dodging whenever you want, which is a good thing, but I'm sure as people get better at the game they'll realize that air dodging can be used in some situations and that attacking isn't always the better/best option.
Yeah, in the demo I find Link in particular to be extremely exploitable because of that behavior. The other ones not so much.
Nope.
http://smashboards.com/threads/gene...scussion-thread.354188/page-124#post-17123768
Well, here is the picture of date Ninka posted the leak.
Oh well...
Still hoping. Even if he didn't post it first, it was only two days later, when the Ninka leak wasn't proven true yet and it didn't have a huge following. Hard to believe it was just someone trying to build on Ninka's relatively unknown leak.
Ah, then yes. I agree. There will still always be those resistant to change though. Some people will forever like melee, and if too many migrate away from it, then maybe they'll be sad/upset that it doesn't have the following that it used to have.
I imagine that the majority of people would gladly welcome a change of pace, something new and different after 14-ish years of one fighting game. Doesn't mean melee will ever go away, just as SF2/3 never went away.
Nobody is an absolute term.
I can't help my computer brain. I see absolutes and I know that they don't exist when talking about people
(for the most part!)
Mr. Smiley
Member
I didn't know about that bit. That's good to know.
I was referring to the fact that if you jump to approach the CPUs while they are in the air, they are most likely going to air dodge expecting one to attack. You just have to wait it out and then attack.
I figured that the air dodge after hitstun was finished had something to do with Brawl.
I wonder if the Wii U version will have different code for the CPUs. The CPU (the actual processor in the Wii U and not AI in Smash lol) isn't a bottleneck for the Wii U compared to the Wii and GCN unlike the 3DS.
I figured that the air dodge after hitstun was finished had something to do with Brawl.
I wonder if the Wii U version will have different code for the CPUs. The CPU (the actual processor in the Wii U and not AI in Smash lol) isn't a bottleneck for the Wii U compared to the Wii and GCN unlike the 3DS.
I feel like SmashBoards wants SSB4 to fail just so they can stick with Melee/Project M.
On the left we see a typical person enjoying a game of Sm4sh. To the right, a member of SmashBoards.
Way to generalize
Previous characters (click to view)
Disclaimer: I can't read Japanese, so I may have missed certain effects that are hard to test (such as shieldbreaker properties) and I don't know the names of the custom moves so I've completely made them up.
In this post we're going to look at Villager, the first newcomer to Smash 4 that we were shown, his customs aren't particularly interesting if you were hoping for maybe different tree models or fruit-bearing trees. But hopefully what we got will please some of the Villager fans.
Neutral Special 1 (Pocket)
The Villager extends his hand out in front of him, grabbing any projectile or item and stuffing it in his pocket for later use. The range is much larger than you'd expect it to be based on the visuals, being able to grab things above, below and even behind you, basically if the projectile is near you, you're probably going to grab it.
The projectile can't be held indefinitely, after about 30 seconds the move will expire and using it again will just do the grab animation. If you use the move before the projectile expires however, you'll throw it back with a 1.9x damage multiplier, knockback is also multiplied but that's a lot harder to quantify.
You can also grab regular items with the move, something which all the customisations do, except for Assist Trophies, Smash Balls, Grass, Sandbag and Pokeballs/Masterballs.
Grabbing Dragoon or Daybreak parts just adds them to your stash as if you picked them up normally
Grabbing items the Villager carries with two hands (Barrel, Crate, Rolling Crate, Party Ball, Explosive Crates), will store the item in your pocket until you use the move again, in which case it will instantly throw it.
Grabbing items that automatically get used(Food, Maxim Tomato, Heart Piece, Fairy Bottle [when over 100%], Mushrooms, Warp Star, Invincibility Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, etc), will store them in your pocket and using the move again will automatically use it.
Grabbing items that Villager carries in one hand but has too press another input to use (Or Fairy Bottles when under 100%) will be stored in his pocket, then brought out into his hand, ready to be used, when you press it again. Subsequent presses will either put it back in his pocket or take it out again.
Neutral Special 2 (Flower Plant)
In this variation, the startup increases and anyone Villager hits with it will get planted, taking damage over time. The plant seems to have a random chance of falling off after hitstun, but the initial hit will do 10% and the plant will do a further 1-16%, depending on how long it actually sticks.
Hitting someone with the move whilst they are already planted will increase the size of the plant, as well as the duration it stays on and decrease the chance of it falling off before it does the full amount of damage.
It's hard to test just how large the DoT can become due to the seemingly random nature of the move not lasting the full duration, but it is possible to get 30%+ from the DoT alone, though by that point they'll be at 200% damage just from using the move and you should have killed them with something else by then.
The move does knockback on the initial hit but it's an incredibly minor amount, not even being able to take someone to the other side of battlefield at 350%
The move still retains the ability to grab projectiles and throw them back, but it has no damage (and I imagine knockback) multiplier on thrown projectiles anymore.
Like most forms of item reflect projectiles, this seems like a straight upgrade when facing an opponent without projectiles, but the pretty high damage potential and the fact that you can still grab projectiles means it could still be useful in any situation.
Neutral Special 3 (Large Grab)
This variation increases the grab range, but the damage multiplier goes down to 1.3.
I guess this variation is supposed to be an "easy mode" of the default? Easier to use but less rewards, doesn't seem to be much else different.
Side Special 1 (Lloid Rocket)
Villager pulls out a Gyroid and either uses it as a projectile or a method of transportation, depending on whether the button was just pressed or held.
It travels much further when Villager is riding it than when it flies solo, going from one end of the screen to the other (and further) if you stay on it, but only the length of battlefield if you don't.
The damage is also increased when the Villager stays on it, doing 16%, whereas it only does 7% if you don't (and it will also decrease to only 5% if you hit them at the very end of the move, and 11% for the held version).
It's also worth noting that you press hold forward and back whilst riding the Gyroid to increase or decrease the travel speed, this doesn't affect the duration of the move but it does affect the range.
Knockback for both versions is enough to KO Samus at around 110%.
Side Special 2 (Lloid Climb)
Another "Goes vertically instead of horizontally" customisation, this time the Gyroid turns sharply upwards a few moments after it appears.
It can be used to recover vertically when rode or it can be used to hit someone returning to the stage, the damage is also increased, doing 19% if rode and 8% as a projectile and it doesn't seem to lose damage over time.
The drawbacks to this custom are that you can't change the end point when rode by holding forwards and back, and the KO power seems to be slightly reduced, only able to KO Samus at ~130% though this is probably due to the fact that knockback is a bit more vertical than the default.
Also, due to the knockback direction and the angle at which the Lloid rises, you can link 2 or even 3 of these together at medium percents, though they aren't true combos and they're probably impossible against anything with a brain, it was funny to see though.
Side Special 3 (Big Lloid)
This time the Villager pulls out a much larger Gyroid that is slower and multi-hit that does 13% damage if all hits connect when rode and 10% when used as a projectile.
The max range is always the same, going just over half of Battlefield, though you can decrease the range by holding back whilst riding it, though it's harder for all the hits to connect if you go slower.
The downside to this move is that it loses a lot of KO potential, it's not able to KO Samus at even 200%, it's better to use it as a projectile to trap someone and then try to use a better kill move.
It's also worth noting that for all three variations, the Gyroid will put you into special fall if you miss or if you press a jump or attack button, actually connecting with the move won't and allow you to try and followup.
Up special 1 (Balloon Trip)
Pressing the input will give Villager two balloons, whilst he has these, continually pressing B will give you a small bit of upwards momentum.
You have full horizontal control during the move and you can cancel it into special fall by press A.
This is a pure recovery ability, you can't use it to damage anyone in any way, though they can damage you and if your balloons get destroyed, you'll automatically go into special fall.
Up Special 2 (Explosive Balloons)
This variation doesn't last as long as the default and it won't take you as high as it could either, but this move can be used offensively.
Pressing A during the move will explode one of your balloons, doing 5-9% damage, depending on how close to the blast radius they are.
Losing both of your balloons will still put you into special fall, but unlike the other one, if you cause both of the balloons to explode yourself by pressing A, you'll jump quite high into the air first.
Like the other recovery, if you land on the ground during it or go the full duration, the balloons will detach and start floating away from you and upwards for a short duration, if you press the input again, you'll spawn 2 new ones and instantly explode the old ones, so this could have some stage control uses.
Up special 3 (Balloon Jump)
Villager jumps high enough to reach the top of the screen from the base platform of Battlefield, you have no horizontal control, except for the fact that you will move slightly forwards in the direction you're facing.
There is a hitbox at the start of the jump that does 10% damage and a small bit of vertical knockback that is only able to kill Samus around 300%
Everything else about this move is the same, the fact that it moves so fast means that your balloons can't easily be destroyed but it puts you really high into the air and in special fall, so be careful about missing sweetspots on the ledge, it's better to just go lower and guarantee the sweetspot as it will recover from practically anywhere below the ledge.
Down Special 1 (Sapling)
When used and there's ground directly in front of you, villager will plant a sapling (doing it in the air or without a place to plant it will cause villager to shrug).
Whilst there is an active sapling, pressing the input again will make villager pull out a watering can that does no damage and some minor push back.
If the water touches the sapling, it will grow into a tree, causing 18% damage and vertical knockback that's capable of killing Samus at 90% if sweetspotted, hitting outside of the center of the tree will only do 13% and much less vertical knockback.
Whilst the tree is active, pressing the input will let Villager swing an axe until the tree has completely disappeared. The axe does 14% damage and decent horizontal knockback if you use it to hit players, able to kill at 140%
Hitting the tree with the axe will chop that side of the tree, and hitting it a second time will cause the tree to fall, it has to be hit twice at either side to fall, you can't just hit each side once.
The tree does 25% damage and very good vertical knockback that's able to kill Samus at 75% and since it's a projectile, if it falls off of a ledge, it will keep going until it hits the floor, so it can be useful for edgeguarding below the stage.
The tree also has a random chance of spitting out a log as it hits the ground, causing 8% damage and minor knockback if it hits anyone, it can also be picked up and rethrown, doing 3% damage and similar knockback.
The tree will stay active for 10 seconds, taking a further 1-2 seconds after that to wilt, whilst wilting it is completely inactiive so you can't chop it down, but it will prevent you from planting another until it's gone, instead just letting you swing the axe.
The sapling will last longer than thee fully grown tree, staying active for around 15 seconds.
The tree will also block projectiles, attacks and movement, acting similarly to another played (You can run through it, but it's harder to walk through it), but attacks will reduce it's life expectancy, though it's hard to test whether it's based on the amount of damage it takes or just the number of hits.
Down Special 2 (Shaking Sapling)
This variation acts a bit more differently than what I would expect, I would have still liked it to be a different model though.
In this variation, whilst the sapling is active, it flashes blue and any enemy that walks into it will take 2% damage and get tripped. The watering can still does no damage and minor pushback, which can be used to push people into the sapling, trip them and then hit them with the tree growth.
The growth animation doesn't seem to have a sweetspot anymore and will do 12% and little knockback wherever you hit with it.
Whilst the tree is fully grown, it flashes red, if anyone attacks the tree during this time, including the villager as well as the axe, it will shake the tree and create a shockwave that does 5% damage and decent knockback.
The axe will only do 6% damage and much less knockback though, and the tree projectile once chopped down will only do 12% damage and can't kill Samus until 160%.
Everything else about the move seems exatly the same, it will still spit out a log that does 8% damage and can be rethrown to do 3%, although this time the log will cause tripping on the initial hit.
Down Special 3 (Tall Sapling)
In this variation, your tree grows larger and everything seems to do more damage.
Whilst the sapling is active, your watering can has a much larger range and better push back, but it's a slower move.
Missing the sweetspot on the growth hitbox will do 15% damage and minor knockback, but the sweetspot will do 20% and similar knockback.
The axe now does 16% damage but it's a slower move and the reduce knockback means it can't kill Samus until over 200%.
The endlag on the axe is definitely higher, but even moreso if you use it to hit the tree, which now does 27% damage and is able to kill Samus as low as 58%
Everything else about the move seems the same.
Final Thoughts
I would have liked a bit more variation model-wise in the customs, like a different Gyroid model for each custom or have the Shaking Sapling have a beehive in it with a a load of bees as the particle effect instead of just a shockwave, but the same can be said for a lot of custom moves that aren't Megaman's or Fox's.
The Item Grab variation seems like an easy mode variation of the default Pocket, letting people grab from further away and grab more things in return for lower damage, so I don't see much use for it in competitive play, the Flower Plant move is pretty fun though and you can really rack up damage if you keep hitting it right.
The Lloid Rocket and Balloon Trip variations seems pretty standard, not much of interest there other than the possibility of the Explosive Balloons giving the Villager access to another form of stage control.
The second tree variation is a bit wackier than I expected, but I think the 3rd custom is a straight upgrade as long as you get the timings right, though it may be a tad too slow to be useful and you can't use the axe as a killing move, if you were planning on doing that.
All in all, not too bad, I'd probably go with 2222 for my main Villager loadout.
Disclaimer: I can't read Japanese, so I may have missed certain effects that are hard to test (such as shieldbreaker properties) and I don't know the names of the custom moves so I've completely made them up.
In this post we're going to look at Villager, the first newcomer to Smash 4 that we were shown, his customs aren't particularly interesting if you were hoping for maybe different tree models or fruit-bearing trees. But hopefully what we got will please some of the Villager fans.
Neutral Special 1 (Pocket)
The Villager extends his hand out in front of him, grabbing any projectile or item and stuffing it in his pocket for later use. The range is much larger than you'd expect it to be based on the visuals, being able to grab things above, below and even behind you, basically if the projectile is near you, you're probably going to grab it.
The projectile can't be held indefinitely, after about 30 seconds the move will expire and using it again will just do the grab animation. If you use the move before the projectile expires however, you'll throw it back with a 1.9x damage multiplier, knockback is also multiplied but that's a lot harder to quantify.
You can also grab regular items with the move, something which all the customisations do, except for Assist Trophies, Smash Balls, Grass, Sandbag and Pokeballs/Masterballs.
Grabbing Dragoon or Daybreak parts just adds them to your stash as if you picked them up normally
Grabbing items the Villager carries with two hands (Barrel, Crate, Rolling Crate, Party Ball, Explosive Crates), will store the item in your pocket until you use the move again, in which case it will instantly throw it.
Grabbing items that automatically get used(Food, Maxim Tomato, Heart Piece, Fairy Bottle [when over 100%], Mushrooms, Warp Star, Invincibility Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, etc), will store them in your pocket and using the move again will automatically use it.
Grabbing items that Villager carries in one hand but has too press another input to use (Or Fairy Bottles when under 100%) will be stored in his pocket, then brought out into his hand, ready to be used, when you press it again. Subsequent presses will either put it back in his pocket or take it out again.
Neutral Special 2 (Flower Plant)
In this variation, the startup increases and anyone Villager hits with it will get planted, taking damage over time. The plant seems to have a random chance of falling off after hitstun, but the initial hit will do 10% and the plant will do a further 1-16%, depending on how long it actually sticks.
Hitting someone with the move whilst they are already planted will increase the size of the plant, as well as the duration it stays on and decrease the chance of it falling off before it does the full amount of damage.
It's hard to test just how large the DoT can become due to the seemingly random nature of the move not lasting the full duration, but it is possible to get 30%+ from the DoT alone, though by that point they'll be at 200% damage just from using the move and you should have killed them with something else by then.
The move does knockback on the initial hit but it's an incredibly minor amount, not even being able to take someone to the other side of battlefield at 350%
The move still retains the ability to grab projectiles and throw them back, but it has no damage (and I imagine knockback) multiplier on thrown projectiles anymore.
Like most forms of item reflect projectiles, this seems like a straight upgrade when facing an opponent without projectiles, but the pretty high damage potential and the fact that you can still grab projectiles means it could still be useful in any situation.
Neutral Special 3 (Large Grab)
This variation increases the grab range, but the damage multiplier goes down to 1.3.
I guess this variation is supposed to be an "easy mode" of the default? Easier to use but less rewards, doesn't seem to be much else different.
Side Special 1 (Lloid Rocket)
Villager pulls out a Gyroid and either uses it as a projectile or a method of transportation, depending on whether the button was just pressed or held.
It travels much further when Villager is riding it than when it flies solo, going from one end of the screen to the other (and further) if you stay on it, but only the length of battlefield if you don't.
The damage is also increased when the Villager stays on it, doing 16%, whereas it only does 7% if you don't (and it will also decrease to only 5% if you hit them at the very end of the move, and 11% for the held version).
It's also worth noting that you press hold forward and back whilst riding the Gyroid to increase or decrease the travel speed, this doesn't affect the duration of the move but it does affect the range.
Knockback for both versions is enough to KO Samus at around 110%.
Side Special 2 (Lloid Climb)
Another "Goes vertically instead of horizontally" customisation, this time the Gyroid turns sharply upwards a few moments after it appears.
It can be used to recover vertically when rode or it can be used to hit someone returning to the stage, the damage is also increased, doing 19% if rode and 8% as a projectile and it doesn't seem to lose damage over time.
The drawbacks to this custom are that you can't change the end point when rode by holding forwards and back, and the KO power seems to be slightly reduced, only able to KO Samus at ~130% though this is probably due to the fact that knockback is a bit more vertical than the default.
Also, due to the knockback direction and the angle at which the Lloid rises, you can link 2 or even 3 of these together at medium percents, though they aren't true combos and they're probably impossible against anything with a brain, it was funny to see though.
Side Special 3 (Big Lloid)
This time the Villager pulls out a much larger Gyroid that is slower and multi-hit that does 13% damage if all hits connect when rode and 10% when used as a projectile.
The max range is always the same, going just over half of Battlefield, though you can decrease the range by holding back whilst riding it, though it's harder for all the hits to connect if you go slower.
The downside to this move is that it loses a lot of KO potential, it's not able to KO Samus at even 200%, it's better to use it as a projectile to trap someone and then try to use a better kill move.
It's also worth noting that for all three variations, the Gyroid will put you into special fall if you miss or if you press a jump or attack button, actually connecting with the move won't and allow you to try and followup.
Up special 1 (Balloon Trip)
Pressing the input will give Villager two balloons, whilst he has these, continually pressing B will give you a small bit of upwards momentum.
You have full horizontal control during the move and you can cancel it into special fall by press A.
This is a pure recovery ability, you can't use it to damage anyone in any way, though they can damage you and if your balloons get destroyed, you'll automatically go into special fall.
Up Special 2 (Explosive Balloons)
This variation doesn't last as long as the default and it won't take you as high as it could either, but this move can be used offensively.
Pressing A during the move will explode one of your balloons, doing 5-9% damage, depending on how close to the blast radius they are.
Losing both of your balloons will still put you into special fall, but unlike the other one, if you cause both of the balloons to explode yourself by pressing A, you'll jump quite high into the air first.
Like the other recovery, if you land on the ground during it or go the full duration, the balloons will detach and start floating away from you and upwards for a short duration, if you press the input again, you'll spawn 2 new ones and instantly explode the old ones, so this could have some stage control uses.
Up special 3 (Balloon Jump)
Villager jumps high enough to reach the top of the screen from the base platform of Battlefield, you have no horizontal control, except for the fact that you will move slightly forwards in the direction you're facing.
There is a hitbox at the start of the jump that does 10% damage and a small bit of vertical knockback that is only able to kill Samus around 300%
Everything else about this move is the same, the fact that it moves so fast means that your balloons can't easily be destroyed but it puts you really high into the air and in special fall, so be careful about missing sweetspots on the ledge, it's better to just go lower and guarantee the sweetspot as it will recover from practically anywhere below the ledge.
Down Special 1 (Sapling)
When used and there's ground directly in front of you, villager will plant a sapling (doing it in the air or without a place to plant it will cause villager to shrug).
Whilst there is an active sapling, pressing the input again will make villager pull out a watering can that does no damage and some minor push back.
If the water touches the sapling, it will grow into a tree, causing 18% damage and vertical knockback that's capable of killing Samus at 90% if sweetspotted, hitting outside of the center of the tree will only do 13% and much less vertical knockback.
Whilst the tree is active, pressing the input will let Villager swing an axe until the tree has completely disappeared. The axe does 14% damage and decent horizontal knockback if you use it to hit players, able to kill at 140%
Hitting the tree with the axe will chop that side of the tree, and hitting it a second time will cause the tree to fall, it has to be hit twice at either side to fall, you can't just hit each side once.
The tree does 25% damage and very good vertical knockback that's able to kill Samus at 75% and since it's a projectile, if it falls off of a ledge, it will keep going until it hits the floor, so it can be useful for edgeguarding below the stage.
The tree also has a random chance of spitting out a log as it hits the ground, causing 8% damage and minor knockback if it hits anyone, it can also be picked up and rethrown, doing 3% damage and similar knockback.
The tree will stay active for 10 seconds, taking a further 1-2 seconds after that to wilt, whilst wilting it is completely inactiive so you can't chop it down, but it will prevent you from planting another until it's gone, instead just letting you swing the axe.
The sapling will last longer than thee fully grown tree, staying active for around 15 seconds.
The tree will also block projectiles, attacks and movement, acting similarly to another played (You can run through it, but it's harder to walk through it), but attacks will reduce it's life expectancy, though it's hard to test whether it's based on the amount of damage it takes or just the number of hits.
Down Special 2 (Shaking Sapling)
This variation acts a bit more differently than what I would expect, I would have still liked it to be a different model though.
In this variation, whilst the sapling is active, it flashes blue and any enemy that walks into it will take 2% damage and get tripped. The watering can still does no damage and minor pushback, which can be used to push people into the sapling, trip them and then hit them with the tree growth.
The growth animation doesn't seem to have a sweetspot anymore and will do 12% and little knockback wherever you hit with it.
Whilst the tree is fully grown, it flashes red, if anyone attacks the tree during this time, including the villager as well as the axe, it will shake the tree and create a shockwave that does 5% damage and decent knockback.
The axe will only do 6% damage and much less knockback though, and the tree projectile once chopped down will only do 12% damage and can't kill Samus until 160%.
Everything else about the move seems exatly the same, it will still spit out a log that does 8% damage and can be rethrown to do 3%, although this time the log will cause tripping on the initial hit.
Down Special 3 (Tall Sapling)
In this variation, your tree grows larger and everything seems to do more damage.
Whilst the sapling is active, your watering can has a much larger range and better push back, but it's a slower move.
Missing the sweetspot on the growth hitbox will do 15% damage and minor knockback, but the sweetspot will do 20% and similar knockback.
The axe now does 16% damage but it's a slower move and the reduce knockback means it can't kill Samus until over 200%.
The endlag on the axe is definitely higher, but even moreso if you use it to hit the tree, which now does 27% damage and is able to kill Samus as low as 58%
Everything else about the move seems the same.
Final Thoughts
I would have liked a bit more variation model-wise in the customs, like a different Gyroid model for each custom or have the Shaking Sapling have a beehive in it with a a load of bees as the particle effect instead of just a shockwave, but the same can be said for a lot of custom moves that aren't Megaman's or Fox's.
The Item Grab variation seems like an easy mode variation of the default Pocket, letting people grab from further away and grab more things in return for lower damage, so I don't see much use for it in competitive play, the Flower Plant move is pretty fun though and you can really rack up damage if you keep hitting it right.
The Lloid Rocket and Balloon Trip variations seems pretty standard, not much of interest there other than the possibility of the Explosive Balloons giving the Villager access to another form of stage control.
The second tree variation is a bit wackier than I expected, but I think the 3rd custom is a straight upgrade as long as you get the timings right, though it may be a tad too slow to be useful and you can't use the axe as a killing move, if you were planning on doing that.
All in all, not too bad, I'd probably go with 2222 for my main Villager loadout.
I feel like SmashBoards wants SSB4 to fail just so they can stick with Melee/Project M.
On the left we see a typical person enjoying a game of Sm4sh. To the right, a member of SmashBoards.
I'm on Smashboards and don't want the game to fail. On the contrary, I would love it if it replaced Melee at Evo and other majors.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Neutral Special 1 (Pocket)
Neutral Special 3 (Item Grab)
This variation allows you to grab items, but only certain items
How is grab 3 any different from grab 1, item-wise? They can both grab items and item properties seems to be the same, just as you describe them. It seems to me like the only difference is the range (reach?) on 3 vs 1.
Played the demo. It's smash bros. and it's awesome! I've only played against CPU's so far but it's a blast. Feels fast enough for my liking and only minor input issues. I've watched pro's streaming the game and they complain a lot about the controls but it's not that bad. The only thing I don't like is L grab and R shield. Smash 4 is pushing the 64 nostalgia, why is the control scheme backwards?! At least the full version will have custom controls.
Oh god. Megakirby reminds me of that sonic comic.
while we're on the subject of amazing pics
Oh god. Megakirby reminds me of that sonic comic.
Oh shit yeah, let me edit that then, I completely forgot that the default one could grab items.
B...but you said it yourself!
Villager grab can't grab any items that have a restriction of 'no more than one on screen.'
MannyToons
Member
Aaah. I love it.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Not to mention, people who want to play Melee and/or PM can and will do so regardless of Smash 4. Contrary to what is often implied, players don't have to move on. Some will probably play Smash 4 in addition to another game in the series just like there were people playing both Melee and Brawl or more recently Melee and PM.
B...but you said it yourself!
Villager grab can't grab any items that have a restriction of 'no more than one on screen.'
Yeah but I'd rather that bit be in the default description, makes more sense that way.
AdaWong
Junior Member
I can be depressed as fuck and this still makes me laugh uncontrollably. I love love love it.
Previous characters (click to view)
Disclaimer: I can't read Japanese, so I may have missed certain effects that are hard to test (such as shieldbreaker properties) and I don't know the names of the custom moves so I've completely made them up.
This time it's Mario, who we've seen all the custom moves for pre-release, so I'll try not to drone on too much about these, I will say that the custom move I was most excited for of his turned out to be pretty bad in my opinion, but we'll get to that later.
Neutral Special 1 (Fireball)
Mario's usual Fireballs, they fire quick enough to have 2 on-screen at once and they seem to fall faster than they did in previous games and they may not go as far, they do 4% damage and minor knockback.
Neutral Special 2 (Fast Fireball)
Instead of bouncing along the floor, these Fireballs fly straight ahead, moving faster than regular fireballs, they do similar knockback but only 1-2% damage.
Neutral Special 2 (Fire Orb)
This was the custom move I was most excited for when I first saw it in the very first clip of custom moves we saw. I thought the idea of Mario being able to use a slow moving, multi-hit projectile that he could use as stage control and combo into and out of sounded really fun.
But in reality the move isn't very good, taking a full 2 seconds to complete, with the projectile lasting only a second afterwards. it barely moves Bowser's width in front of you and it does combo into Fair if you can trap them at the side of the ledge with it at the very start of the move, but I don't think that that's going to happen very often considering the significant startup of the move.
Side Special 1 (Cape)
Mario swings his cape infront of him, doing 7% damage, flipping enemies around and reflecting projectiles with a 1.5x damage multiplier.
It can also be used to stall your momentum in midair and now makes a SMW-esque cape sound effect when it connects.
Side Special 2 (Shocking Cape)
Does 11% damage and decent knockback (though not really enough to be a main kill move), but loses the ability to reflect projectiles, instead just destroying them.
Your ability to stall is also diminished to being practically negligible.
Side Special 3 (Gust Cape)
Does less damage than the regular cape (5%), but causes decent push back which is strongest closest to Mario.
Can still stall in midair, will still flip people (if the cape connects) and still has the 1.5x damage modifier, seems like a straight upgrade unless you really need that 2% or I'm missing something.
Up Special 1 (Super Jump Punch)
Decent recovery, does 12% if all hits connect and decent knockback on the final hit. Has invincibility on startup.
Up Special 2 (Super Jump)
Increases Mario's recovery height at the cost of doing no damage or knockback and it loses the startup invincibility. Doesn't seem particularly useful to me, you generally won't need the extra distance in this game.
Up Special 3 (Explosive Punch)
Loses half the distance but does 2 hits, 8% on the first and 13% on the second hit. The second hit will KO Samus at 105% and it keeps the invincibility on startup, so it's a pretty good option if you don't need the extra recovery height.
Down Special 1 (FLUDD)
The move probably most known for being worse than the Mario Tornado, Mario pulls out his FLUDD and starts charging it, you can roll and shield to hold the charge. Takes about 2 seconds total to fully charge.
Does no damage but alright push back, can be angled up and down and lasts about a second, pretty similar to what we all know.
You can press the B button whilst charging to instantly fire it before it's fully charged, but the range and push back force will be lower.
Down Special 2 (Scalding FLUDD)
This time, instead of pushing people, the move loses range and starts doing fire damage.
It only takes a second to charge and does 8% damage if all hits connect, but the range is about a third of what it once was so it's not massively useful.
Down Special 3 (High-Pressure FLUDD)
This FLUDD Version takes a bit longer to charge, but the push back is stronger and it has higher recoil, able to push yourself back over a third of Battlefield.
Better than the default FLUDD in 1v1s, seeing as you can easily get a full charge without being interrupted by something else, still worse than the Mario Tornado though.
Final Thoughts
The Fire Orb was the biggest disappointment to me, I was expecting to have fun with it, but it just wasn't.
I'm also surprised they didn't do an ice ball variation or super ball variation or take the opportunity to make FLUDD better by giving it different nozzles, though the latter might be too much for the system of mostly only slight variations they've got going here.
My loadout is 1313, Gust Cape just seems straight up better and atleast the High-Pressure FLUDD is better than the regular one, but for the others I just prefer the defaults.
Disclaimer: I can't read Japanese, so I may have missed certain effects that are hard to test (such as shieldbreaker properties) and I don't know the names of the custom moves so I've completely made them up.
This time it's Mario, who we've seen all the custom moves for pre-release, so I'll try not to drone on too much about these, I will say that the custom move I was most excited for of his turned out to be pretty bad in my opinion, but we'll get to that later.
Neutral Special 1 (Fireball)
Mario's usual Fireballs, they fire quick enough to have 2 on-screen at once and they seem to fall faster than they did in previous games and they may not go as far, they do 4% damage and minor knockback.
Neutral Special 2 (Fast Fireball)
Instead of bouncing along the floor, these Fireballs fly straight ahead, moving faster than regular fireballs, they do similar knockback but only 1-2% damage.
Neutral Special 2 (Fire Orb)
This was the custom move I was most excited for when I first saw it in the very first clip of custom moves we saw. I thought the idea of Mario being able to use a slow moving, multi-hit projectile that he could use as stage control and combo into and out of sounded really fun.
But in reality the move isn't very good, taking a full 2 seconds to complete, with the projectile lasting only a second afterwards. it barely moves Bowser's width in front of you and it does combo into Fair if you can trap them at the side of the ledge with it at the very start of the move, but I don't think that that's going to happen very often considering the significant startup of the move.
Side Special 1 (Cape)
Mario swings his cape infront of him, doing 7% damage, flipping enemies around and reflecting projectiles with a 1.5x damage multiplier.
It can also be used to stall your momentum in midair and now makes a SMW-esque cape sound effect when it connects.
Side Special 2 (Shocking Cape)
Does 11% damage and decent knockback (though not really enough to be a main kill move), but loses the ability to reflect projectiles, instead just destroying them.
Your ability to stall is also diminished to being practically negligible.
Side Special 3 (Gust Cape)
Does less damage than the regular cape (5%), but causes decent push back which is strongest closest to Mario.
Can still stall in midair, will still flip people (if the cape connects) and still has the 1.5x damage modifier, seems like a straight upgrade unless you really need that 2% or I'm missing something.
Up Special 1 (Super Jump Punch)
Decent recovery, does 12% if all hits connect and decent knockback on the final hit. Has invincibility on startup.
Up Special 2 (Super Jump)
Increases Mario's recovery height at the cost of doing no damage or knockback and it loses the startup invincibility. Doesn't seem particularly useful to me, you generally won't need the extra distance in this game.
Up Special 3 (Explosive Punch)
Loses half the distance but does 2 hits, 8% on the first and 13% on the second hit. The second hit will KO Samus at 105% and it keeps the invincibility on startup, so it's a pretty good option if you don't need the extra recovery height.
Down Special 1 (FLUDD)
The move probably most known for being worse than the Mario Tornado, Mario pulls out his FLUDD and starts charging it, you can roll and shield to hold the charge. Takes about 2 seconds total to fully charge.
Does no damage but alright push back, can be angled up and down and lasts about a second, pretty similar to what we all know.
You can press the B button whilst charging to instantly fire it before it's fully charged, but the range and push back force will be lower.
Down Special 2 (Scalding FLUDD)
This time, instead of pushing people, the move loses range and starts doing fire damage.
It only takes a second to charge and does 8% damage if all hits connect, but the range is about a third of what it once was so it's not massively useful.
Down Special 3 (High-Pressure FLUDD)
This FLUDD Version takes a bit longer to charge, but the push back is stronger and it has higher recoil, able to push yourself back over a third of Battlefield.
Better than the default FLUDD in 1v1s, seeing as you can easily get a full charge without being interrupted by something else, still worse than the Mario Tornado though.
Final Thoughts
The Fire Orb was the biggest disappointment to me, I was expecting to have fun with it, but it just wasn't.
I'm also surprised they didn't do an ice ball variation or super ball variation or take the opportunity to make FLUDD better by giving it different nozzles, though the latter might be too much for the system of mostly only slight variations they've got going here.
My loadout is 1313, Gust Cape just seems straight up better and atleast the High-Pressure FLUDD is better than the regular one, but for the others I just prefer the defaults.
Previous characters (click to view)
Love these writeups. Thanks man. Any chance you'll be doing Link soon?
The Great Gonzales
Member
Nice, Villager's got some interesting customs, especially the Flower and both Saplings. I do agree that there should have been different tree models; the pine tree is just as prevalent in AC, so it seems like a shame not to use it.
johnsavage
Member
It's almost time
Wow two day shipping. I don't know how you're going to last
Edit: oops i'm stupid it still says oct 3rd. Umm i don't know how you're going to last those extra hours from midnight?
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
It's almost time
2 weeks and 1 day isn't almost
.I thought about going physical release so I could loan the game to friends who don't have the funds for day one. But then realized I can't give up the convenience of that huge digital library I've built.
Probably not any time soon, I only have one special for him and I'm prioritising characters I have lots of moves for first.
Also I was checking the imgur stats for my images and found that someone had copy and pasted my Ness writeup on a french forum, it looks like they started translating it, but got bored after the neutral specials and just left it as is, I found it funny for some reason.
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
Thanks for these JoeInky, really love reading them.
I can try to do it for you tonight, but only because you have a kain avatar, who is my favorite character design of all time.
One of link's custom moves is locked behind a challenge (hopefully only one?) but I got it. Custom moves being locked behind challenges is BS
Jzero
Member
Hopefully UPS messes up and delivers it early. All my games are digital so i wanted at least one physical game.
Wrong thread?
- Status